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Old 07-10-2013, 08:00 AM   #121
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Ah! I didnt know there were more ladies chitty chatting on here.. so glad to have someone to talk to
Welcome!

I have poured and poured and poured over the internet trying to find good forums to lurk around on and wow.. NADA.

Update on me: 37 1/2.. going through wicked hair loss (literally clogging the drain) ... bad joint pain in wrists.. mild insomnia.. inability to get my weight moving again.. and dry, gritty eyes.

I went to talk to my bio identical (very expensive) doctor about these changes and well.. shes pretty oblivious. Go figure. Anti aging expert my ass.

I paid out of pocket for another saliva profile test ($150.00) and went to ZRT online and found out I need to test on the 21st day of my cycle.
I did. Much to the grumbling of my bio doctor. I test, ship and wait.. and wait.. and wait..
Finally call my doc and say whats up? She says well, something is wrong. Your progesterone that was perfect (she is treating me with a cream 15 days a month) is now 3 times what it should be. She is wondering if the test is contaminated. Sends me another. Also tells me other than ivory soap and deodorant, do not use ANY creams, lotions, rubs, foot creams, shave gels, NOTHING. These all throw off hormones because they are full of dyes, perfumes, colors and parabans.

This test is free. Have to wait another dang 3 weeks to test and another 2 weeks for results. She calls and says everything is normal. No idea what happened, no idea why you feel like do-do.

I go pickup a copy of that "normal" saliva profile test and start researching. It clearly says right on the test that my estrogen (all 3 combined) is barely on the chart. It shows my testosterone slightly high which is due to the progesterone being too high, it can cascade. It shows cortisol is normal, actually kinda low which is good and then it shows my DHEA at 5 (2-23 ng ml)

Ahaahaahhhhhhhhhhh.

Again, anti aging expert, my ass. Why didnt she catch this? Both my estrogen and DHEA are low. When I research those= dry eyes, joint pain, hair loss, fatigue, inability to lose weight.
Hmm. Could this be my issue? I have gone sugar and gluten free. I exercise an hour a day. I drink 2 cups of coffee in the AM with stevia, then water till bedtime.. bedtime I have a glass of red wine with a 3 mg melatonin and the next morning its starts all over. She blames the hair loss and inflammation on a food allergy.. BUT.. i have no gas, bloating, diarreah, constipation, stomach pains.. no indigestion. We eat mostly primal blueprint/ atkins and as organic as possible.. its not a food allergy.
So.. she says she wont RX me bio identical estrogen because im still having periods.. well my periods are now coming every 3 weeks. That is odd for me. Clearly i am in perimenopause and need to put back these diminishing hormones.
Im reading Suzanne Somers book (pretty informative, even if older)
I started a 5 mg under the tongue DHEA tablet and bought a daily bio identical paraben free estriol cream (the safer of the estrogens) and use a dab on the end of my pinky every OTHER morning, alternating between thin tissues of my neck, wrists, back of arms..

Im hoping these two very slight additions to my regime will bring up my estrogen and DHEA a little bit to ease up these symptoms.. i know DHEA will cascase too.. just hope my estrogen comes up vs me growing a beard and testicles.

Sorry for the novel. This hormone stuff is so frustrating!
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:06 AM   #122
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oh and I ditched my 125 mg of daily synthroid and went on "Whole Foods Thyroid Complete" at the urging of a great friend who's endo told her about it. Shes been on it a year and her Free's and TSH are perfect. Says shes never felt better. Im on day 3 of that. It has all natural ingredients (kelp, iodine, selenium, magnesium) and bovine and porcine multiglandular support.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:42 AM   #123
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Wow, I am so glad that you're posting your journey through hormonal hell here. It makes me feel less alone.

Last year I saw a nurse practitioner who specializes in hormone balancing because my hormones/cycle had been thrown into complete havoc due to out of control bulimia. I have long suspected the E.D. to be a result of a micro nutrient deficiency/hormonal issues that occurred before the binge/purge behavior manifested. I was a normal eater/dieter until the age of 22, which is when I lost a LOT of weight, got thin, and (unknowingly) tanked my leptin levels. I've been up/down with binging purging ever since (I'm now 25).

My complaints: missing or sporadic periods, drastically thinning hair, very dry skin, gritty eyes, terrible constipation, and wild mood swings. Pores on my face, back, and chest are always plugged with small blackheads, but otherwise not much acne (just occasional flare ups that occurred as the result of sugar binges). According to the tests she ordered, the only thing that was not at a perfectly normal level was my progesterone level, which was pretty much non-existent even though it should have been on the day I took the test.

She recommended that I use the natural progesterone cream for the two weeks a month, blah, blah, blah. I used the cream for three days and decided to quit because it made my already poor sleep WORSE, made me retain water, made me anxious, and made me crave sugar/carbs like a madwoman. Basically, it gave me wicked PMS, which makes sense since progesterone *is* the hormone responsible for those particular pms symptoms.

Through extreme willpower that I was not able to maintain, I was bulimia free for exactly 4 months. Know what threw me back into the cycle of hell? PMS. Awful, ****ing terrible pms. And I don't know what to do about it. Obviously I'm making progesterone just fine now since I seem to suffer endlessly for half of every month.

I have no idea what course of action to take any more. I thought maybe sticking myself back on the pill might help with the PMS, although I don't think it will help me with the 20 lbs I want to drop.

Being a woman can effing suck balls.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:44 AM   #124
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Tracy---boy you have been through the wringer. I hate it that when we search out an "expert" and feel they should have the answers but they don't. I mean I pay big bucks too and not getting any results but adult acne my face, back, neck and arms were free and clear until I started testosterone. I don't like it, not one bit. I will not continue this next year. I paid for a years' worth of visits and that is it!!! I don't need this. I am still pissed at people, they make me irritated just like before and I am even more tired than when I started out.

My family doc told me about the estrogen.....you need to start it before you need it. Essentially she told me that the studies have shown that you cannot play catch up with it. That made me feel better about needing it. I am 43 next week ( ) and my FSH is showing me as entering menopause. I still have periods too, but am beginning that peri time too. Ugh. I didn't want to hear that. I feel too young to be in that time already.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:47 AM   #125
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Dawn, you've stated you are on Armour. How high a dose? What are your TSH, Free T3 and Free T4 numbers from your last lab? Do you chew your tablets? Do you refrain from taking your dose the morning that you have your labs done?

Underdosing thyroid hormones is a HUGE PROBLEM.

Take a few minutes and watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=JW1eO_Fpf38
I don' t have any numbers to give you, but they say my numbers are very normal. And they do them all. Not just the TSH. I can find out when I go back next visit next month. My Armour is 60mg and I chew it first thing in the AM, one hour before eating anything. And no, no one ever told me to NOT dose before having a thyroid test done. But now that you mention it, it makes sense to not have it
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:12 AM   #126
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I don' t have any numbers to give you, but they say my numbers are very normal. And they do them all. Not just the TSH. I can find out when I go back next visit next month. My Armour is 60mg and I chew it first thing in the AM, one hour before eating anything. And no, no one ever told me to NOT dose before having a thyroid test done. But now that you mention it, it makes sense to not have it
And let me add that I have test results from when I first went on the Armour. I knew all the tests I needed to have done, and my doctor did too. She was really thorough and I felt comfortable letting her handle it. I feel I needed it, my doc wanted me to treat my adrenals and eat healthy first. Then after a while I asked for the Armour, she agreed and gave it to me.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:47 AM   #127
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Tracy--I forgot to ask , which book of Suzanne's have you read? I just bought a few of hers and know that they all talk about hormones. I was hoping to educate myself a little for when I don't have the hormone clinic anymore.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:51 AM   #128
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I like how once we talked about thyroids, an advertisment popped up. Too funny.

Emky.. you are WAY too young to be dealing with all of this hormonal stuff. When we tell you it gets worse as you age, we are serious
How is your diet? I have found when I eat like crap, I feel like crap.. so I just try not to. Are you on a good multivitamin? I would avoid the BC pills with a passion.. Suzanne Somers book interviews expert after expect testifying to the dangers down the line of taking BC pills (estrogen)..
Im sorry you are having so many problems. We are all in the same boat!

Dawn, well happy beautiful birthday

With thyroid, never, ever, everrrrrr take your docs word for the test results. You will want to keep a copy. You want your Free T3, Free T4 and TSH tested everytime you do your bloodwork. I keep a binder of all of my bloodwork, MRIs, test results etc. Im finding more and more that we have to be the one looking out for our health. Our docs just dont have the time
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:53 AM   #129
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Tracy--I forgot to ask , which book of Suzanne's have you read? I just bought a few of hers and know that they all talk about hormones. I was hoping to educate myself a little for when I don't have the hormone clinic anymore.
Ageless Im about 1/2 through. Great book. So informative.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:57 AM   #130
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Ageless Im about 1/2 through. Great book. So informative.
Thanks! That is one I have.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:00 AM   #131
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Dawn, why are you on testosterone? How often are you testing your hormones and are you doing saliva vs blood?
Also, none of your hormones are swallowed, are they? Thats a bust. It just gets filtered out by your liver.

I would be scared of the acne and face hair with testosterone. Unless it was off the charts low of course...
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:03 AM   #132
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Dawn, well happy beautiful birthday

With thyroid, never, ever, everrrrrr take your docs word for the test results. You will want to keep a copy. You want your Free T3, Free T4 and TSH tested everytime you do your bloodwork. I keep a binder of all of my bloodwork, MRIs, test results etc. Im finding more and more that we have to be the one looking out for our health. Our docs just dont have the time
Thank you!!

I have copies of the first few thyroid tests I had. And my hormone doc sent the last one to my family doc. So all I have to do is ask. I don't want to. It took a while of begging to actually be ON Armour and I don't feel I can ask for any changes. I will when I feel like it. With my first tests back, I had some low results that would make it look like thyroid issues, even had nonstickpam give me feedback and she agreed that it wasn't indeed thryoid. Low vita D, WBC was off. That sort of thing. So I have other issues, I know. Too much to get it sorted out if you ask me. I just don't have the energy or the gumption to get 'er done. I have no "get 'er done in me" . Too tired for that. But then again, I have felt this way since I was in my teens. It is in my psyche now---it IS me now.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:08 AM   #133
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Dawn, why are you on testosterone? How often are you testing your hormones and are you doing saliva vs blood?
Also, none of your hormones are swallowed, are they? Thats a bust. It just gets filtered out by your liver.

I would be scared of the acne and face hair with testosterone. Unless it was off the charts low of course...
I am going back in Aug for bloodwork. My test. was too high on last labs so they gave me much less. I don't have facial hair problems. Just teen aged stuff I used to deal with. No, I am on pellets. Don't swallow them. My progesterone is under the tongue--well up under the nose but taken so its absorbed in the mouth. And yes, my doc does go by symptoms as well as lab work. If I tell them I am uncomfortable with test. they won't give me any. I will tell them to next time, lay off! I don't like it, and don't notice a difference with it except the acne.

I even told my doc last visit, "I know I can do this myself but I don't know what to do! That is why I am paying you". I would totally botch this up on my own, so I thought I was going somewhere I could find good results. Nope, these hormones are not for me. Should have saved my thousands of dollars
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:17 AM   #134
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I am totally going it alone..my docs are clueless it seems.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:41 AM   #135
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I am totally going it alone..my docs are clueless it seems.
And they charge so much to be so clueless kind of like the weatherman. I can be more accurate than them sometimes by just looking out my window. Some just don't get it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:18 PM   #136
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Exactly

I am going to purchase another ZRT saliva profile test from Smokey Mountain Naturals here in about 3-4 weeks. You can do (2) hormones for $59.00 and that includes shipping and emailed test results.
Since my testosterone, progesterone and cortisol are all within normal ranges finally and I just now started some estriol and DHEA supplementation, I will test only those two
That would be about a month after starting treatment.
I also have a lab requisite sheet on my refrigerator for thyroid lab work only its been marked TSH and Free T4. I will test in about a month on that as well but need to run by and have my doc correct the sheet to include the DX code for Free T3.
I will keep you suffering ladies informed. Sigh.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:27 PM   #137
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Thanks Tracy. Where in FL are you? My mom just moved from the west coast to the east coast of FL. She is in Margate and I don't know what that is around. Anywhere near you? My uncle (and aunt!) are near Tampa.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:28 AM   #138
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My wonderful update.....I am allergic to my own progesterone! I went to my gyno and she says the hormone doctor should not just be doubling stuff. She ran tests.. ....confirmed my estrogen is very low but progesterone is high and testosterone is normal.
My immunologist runs a test for progesterone allergy and whammo.....I am covered in hives within a short time after a shot. So...,,I was taken off all.....started estrogen (high dose to suppress the progesterone) day one of my cycle....well today is day 5, no allergy meds.....I feel fantastic, dropped 5 nasty pounds that would not budge and well I feel great!
I get retested in 3 weeks because extremely high estrogen isn't good either .....
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:07 AM   #139
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Holy cow Who knew you could be allergic to progesterone. Well, obviously the one who should know geesh, you really cannot trust anyone these days
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:19 AM   #140
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Yep....I've been battling something since end of last year. Woke up one day with a swollen hand, then it was my face, then the hives started everywhere ...the itching etc....
It's been. Every day since ( few days here and there I was ok). I have seen more specialists than I can count, been on tons f meds, had every test run known to man.....my journaling the intensity of symptoms led her to see a pattern with my cycle. Apparently autoimmune progesterone dermatitis is an allergy to ones progesterone. The hormone doc prescribing more set me off. Estrogen therapy and if that doesn't do it then they either take your ovaries or a hysterectomy. I only have one ovary so I'd go that route I thnk.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:25 AM   #141
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Thanks Tracy. Where in FL are you? My mom just moved from the west coast to the east coast of FL. She is in Margate and I don't know what that is around. Anywhere near you? My uncle (and aunt!) are near Tampa.
Sorry im just seeing this. I dont always get notifications that there are new replies

Anyway- im in Navarre. A teeny little beach community in the panhandle. I work in the next town over, Pensacola.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:35 AM   #142
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Yep....I've been battling something since end of last year. Woke up one day with a swollen hand, then it was my face, then the hives started everywhere ...the itching etc....
It's been. Every day since ( few days here and there I was ok). I have seen more specialists than I can count, been on tons f meds, had every test run known to man.....my journaling the intensity of symptoms led her to see a pattern with my cycle. Apparently autoimmune progesterone dermatitis is an allergy to ones progesterone. The hormone doc prescribing more set me off. Estrogen therapy and if that doesn't do it then they either take your ovaries or a hysterectomy. I only have one ovary so I'd go that route I thnk.
That is so crazy. Never heard of it. So nice to have someone finally catch it. From the anti aging books im reading its best to do every single thing in your power NOT to have your ovaries or uterus removed unless you are dealing with cancer.. i really hope you can avoid that route. I think the more we let docs just go in and clear it all out, the worse we make our problems.. the brain then perceives us as no longer able to reproduce and replentish the species and we start self destruction.
I hope you have found your problem

I have found an anti aging doctor who is an OB/ GYN who has been right under my nose for years! I stumbled onto her website by accident. She is in the same building with my PCM. PCM put through the referral for me to see her regarding hormone issues and I called and they had a cancellation for this thurs morning. I plan to take my new ZRT test results in along with the long list of estrogen and DHEA deficiency symptoms im having and BEG her to put me on some bio identical treatment.. the estriol cream im using hasnt made any difference yet.. i bet she uses blood sample vs saliva.. we will see.

I love this little guy! ive never seen it before, haha.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:50 PM   #143
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Hi Tracy - when your doc asks for blood (assuming she does) will you please let me/us know which tests she orders?

I'm using bio identical hormone cream, and I'd like to get my blood tested to see whether it's doing any good. Symptom-wise I'm not nearly convinced (still having warm flashes and wild mood swings).

You sound like you've studied about this more than I have and I think my doc will just say "OK" if I ask her to check whatever.

My bottle of cream says:
EA-0.1
EI-5
P-140
D-5MG/ML

and I use 1ML twice/day.

What a way of introducing my self! HA HA!
Hope it's not too abrupt, but I've been following this and am very interested in your next step/outcome.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:49 PM   #144
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Hi Tracy - when your doc asks for blood (assuming she does) will you please let me/us know which tests she orders?

I'm using bio identical hormone cream, and I'd like to get my blood tested to see whether it's doing any good. Symptom-wise I'm not nearly convinced (still having warm flashes and wild mood swings).

You sound like you've studied about this more than I have and I think my doc will just say "OK" if I ask her to check whatever.

My bottle of cream says:
EA-0.1
EI-5
P-140
D-5MG/ML

and I use 1ML twice/day.

What a way of introducing my self! HA HA!
Hope it's not too abrupt, but I've been following this and am very interested in your next step/outcome.
Hi! YES maam. I will let you know what she orders. I know if this new doc tests/ treats my blood samples, my insurance will cover. Otherwise its $165.00 every few months for saliva and all out of pocket.
So you are on 2 estrogens, a progesterone and DHEA it looks like.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:56 PM   #145
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How long have you been on BHRT? I know that every single woman is different and some of us are much more complex to balance than others. You probably need a tweeking. I understand that this is NOT a quick fix. Its pretty much a full time job, until you are 80 or so


If you are still having night sweats and mood swings, I bet you need more blood work and a change up in creams..
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:57 PM   #146
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Hi! YES maam. I will let you know what she orders. I know if this new doc tests/ treats my blood samples, my insurance will cover. Otherwise its $165.00 every few months for saliva and all out of pocket.
So you are on 2 estrogens, a progesterone and DHEA it looks like.
I'm glad you can tell! lol

Since I'm still having symptoms, I wish I knew which boxes to check on my form she's ordered for other blood work.

I can wait, though... (tapping my foot.... )

From talking to other friends, I agree with you - I need more or tweaking or something.
It's all kind of expensive, though!

I started this last November. I felt better quickly, just not "enough".

I know she'll test if I ask, I would like to know what to ask for. A cursory web search didn't show me what I needed.
So if you don't mind, I'll wait until your doc tests and then ask for a similar test.

I don't feel "crazed" anymore, just... mood swings and yes, warm flashes/hot flashes.

Last edited by JMCM1; 07-16-2013 at 07:04 PM..
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:09 AM   #147
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Ok.
I will update here tomorrow.
I think you will want to test total estrogen (there are 3).. testosterone, progesterone, DHEA and cortisol but im pretty new to this.

These are the important perimenopausal and menopause hormones.

Most docs dont get it right on the first try and tweeking is unavoidable.
Also, make sure you are using a tad bit under what your dosage is. From what I read, most docs RX way too much and with HRT, less is more..

Another thing, alternate your application sites. Its very easy for the thin skin on the forearms to become oversaturated and soar your numbers.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:18 AM   #148
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Thank you!
I do rotate application sites.

I know she recently checked my cortisol and it was fine. My homocysteine was high.
Thankfully there's no drug for that - just reduction or elimination of (let me now tick off all my favorite things) red meat, dairy, coffee, alcohol...
Also increasing certain B vitamins would help, so I've done that as well.

But I don't think she's tested the testosterone, progerstone or DHEA.
I have a lab waiting to be drawn she's ordered and I can call and ask her if I get those things checked too. I am sure she'll say OK - just seems like I should ask before altering the tests she's ordered.

And I'll wait until you get your labs ordered.

Thanks again - I appreciate the discussion.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:57 PM   #149
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Did your practioner test these steroid hormones prior to starting you on BHRT? I sure hope so.. that way if you are retesting now, you will know what progress you've made.
But serum testing is still so hit and miss vs saliva..

If you are still having "warm" nights you might still be deficient in estrogen..

Anyway, I hope you find your perfect regime asap

Ive been reading up on endocrine disruptors and wow.. so many things we come into contact with every single day and think nothing of, totally wreck our hormones.. no wonder so many of us over 35 are a hormonal mess

DH and I had a heated conversation last night and i couldnt believe how I kept my cool. I did get mad, but not my usual door slamming- ooops how did your pillows make it all over the floor with the dogs- mad.. like usual. Maybe that is a real upside to hormonal harmony.

And said argument did result in an email apology from me this morning right away. That still has him scratching his head him sure
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:59 AM   #150
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OK, so the appointment went fabulous. Dr. Kennedy was very warm, sweet and thorough almost too thorough. I was really sweating how long it took #bossonwarpath.

Anyway, I had went to their online portal, printed out all the forms, filled everything out and attached a very short and right to the point synopsis of my hormonal health right now. I kept it very brief and i have never had a nurse and doctor praise me for that. They usually dont even mention it but this time, the nurse was like, "you did such a fabulous job, you made my job so easy!"... that never happens.
So we weigh, measure, do BP.. go over my history.. i tell her that my regular PCM is taking very good care of me but my hormones are jacked up bad. We discuss that I took myself off of synthetic T4 (synthroid) and started Thyroid Complete. She actually said that was great. The more natural, the better.
We discuss the topical bio identical progesterone and how I did SOOO much better when I started it but after 3 months, things are off. She looked at my ZRT results and said she does use saliva, every now and then but its too expensive and insurance wont cover (i know).
This is what we're ordering.

DHEA
FSH (i was hoping for this to see where I am perimenopause wise)
Progesterone
E2
Estrone
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
Testosterone, Free & total.

I told her that looking at my saliva results, my estrogen and DHEA are low and when researching these, the symptoms im having match perfectly.
She agrees. She then says she has no problem putting me on a small amount of daily estrogen (Hallalujah!) Those are the words ive been begging my "anti aging expert" to say and she wont. She asked if I want the pill or the transdermal cream. I want the cream. The pill loses 1/2 - 3/4 of its magic with the first pass through the liver. I did tell her im taking DHEA, sublingually at 5 MG at day. She said that is good.

I would imagine if all of my hormones except testosterone have tanked, it doesnt make sense that I would end up estrogen dominant but now, im holding my breath. I just dont have a lot of faith in serum vs saliva testing but im desperate. I cannot afford to assess my levels every 3 months or so with saliva.

I will go tomorrow morning bright and early for bloodwork and then she told me to log onto the portal in a few days and see what my results are and we would go from there. I really hope my estrogen is as low in serum as it is in saliva.
I will update here when I get my results
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