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Old 02-06-2012, 03:27 PM   #1
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Dr. blaming ketones for kidney pain?

I'm having some sort of pelvic problem, whether it's kidney stones or endometriosis, I don't know. They may do exploratory fluorscopic surgery to check for endometriosis if I'm not better in a week. This has been going on for several weeks and I've been in the ER and admitted to the hospital (back out now.) Still in pain.

BUT: They are making a bid deal about the ketones in my urine. (It's the ONLY thing that's 'abnormal' in my urine tests.)

Dr. said, "Ketones may be making you have this pain. Maybe it's time you eat more carbs." I told him no, absolutely not. (I really don't believe ketones are giving me this SUDDEN extreme pain.) I've been in ketosis since June 2010 and have no intention of ever being out of ketosis again. (and I basically told him this.)

Could ketones cause kidney stones or kidney pain? (I can't find anything by Googling it.) Or is my OBGYN just uninformed about ketones?
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:39 PM   #2
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Wow, I am sorry you are going through this.
I don't know anything about this but I do know that in my neck of the woods there is a kidney specialist that advocates low carb diets for some of his kidney patients.
So How bad can it be?
I seems to remember the topic of Low carb diet effect(or the lack of a negative effect) on the kidneys mentioned in the Adkins book.
You may want to take a look at that.
Good luck.
Hope you feel better soon.
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:55 PM   #3
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I strongly suggest you see another doctor about the endometriosis before you go under the knife. I have endometriosis and was about to have surgery when I decided to go for a second opinion. I have had docs in the past tell me that the surgery doesn't work, but I was just in so much pain and my doctor did not want to give me any prescription drugs for it, they just wanted to operate. So, I went to this new doctor who explained to me why the surgery does not work--it temporarily relieves the endometriosis, but it ends up creating additional scar tissue that causes more pain. My new doc told me that a lot of women become addicted to the surgery because of its temporary relief, so they just have more and more surgeries. I am now trying different birth control (nuvaring) and it has significantly diminished my pain. I am also going to go to a pain specialist.

When I was in the ER once for what I knew was a burst cyst, they tried to convince me it was kidney problems or a kidney stone and that I did not know what I was talking about. Well, I ran out of there and straight to my GYN the next day and it was a huge ruptured cyst. I am suspicious of anyone who wants to do exploratory surgery for this kind of thing without being familiar with ketogenic metabolism. Definitely agree that you should seek another opinion. There are a lot of poorly informed doctors out there who just don't know, but they're not going to listen to one of us.
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creseis View Post
I strongly suggest you see another doctor about the endometriosis before you go under the knife. I have endometriosis and was about to have surgery when I decided to go for a second opinion. I have had docs in the past tell me that the surgery doesn't work, but I was just in so much pain and my doctor did not want to give me any prescription drugs for it, they just wanted to operate. So, I went to this new doctor who explained to me why the surgery does not work--it temporarily relieves the endometriosis, but it ends up creating additional scar tissue that causes more pain. My new doc told me that a lot of women become addicted to the surgery because of its temporary relief, so they just have more and more surgeries. I am now trying different birth control (nuvaring) and it has significantly diminished my pain. I am also going to go to a pain specialist.

When I was in the ER once for what I knew was a burst cyst, they tried to convince me it was kidney problems or a kidney stone and that I did not know what I was talking about. Well, I ran out of there and straight to my GYN the next day and it was a huge ruptured cyst. I am suspicious of anyone who wants to do exploratory surgery for this kind of thing without being familiar with ketogenic metabolism. Definitely agree that you should seek another opinion. There are a lot of poorly informed doctors out there who just don't know, but they're not going to listen to one of us.
So surgery to remove endometriosis doesn't last? Drats!!!!

Off to Google about it. Right now I just want the pain to STOP. (So I can see how women would jump at the surgery --- I'm about to.)

THanks -- I'm going to research it more.
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:12 PM   #5
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I hope they can figure out what's wrong and you feel better soon!!
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:13 PM   #6
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I hope they can figure out what's wrong and you feel better soon!!
Thanks!
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:32 PM   #7
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Just another opinion--I had surgery 8 years ago for my very painful endometriosis, followed by monthly Lupron shots, and I've never had any pain again. The point about the ruptured ovarian cyst is a good one, too--they are acutely painful, but once they break, the pain is gone. Hope you get it figured out!
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:27 PM   #8
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Endometriosis is very painful. There are a few good specialist in the country. One of them is Dr. Cook in California. My daughter had surgery last year and has had an amazing outcome. This was a 3rd procedure. The 1st 2 did not help at all. They were not with Dr. Cook. She has a much better quality of life now. I think his clinic is the Vital Health Institute. People fly in to have their surgeries done by him. I think he just wrote a book that is coming out soon. Good luck to you & I hope you will be feeling better soon.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:21 AM   #9
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Just another opinion--I had surgery 8 years ago for my very painful endometriosis, followed by monthly Lupron shots, and I've never had any pain again. The point about the ruptured ovarian cyst is a good one, too--they are acutely painful, but once they break, the pain is gone. Hope you get it figured out!
Thanks!

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Endometriosis is very painful. There are a few good specialist in the country. One of them is Dr. Cook in California. My daughter had surgery last year and has had an amazing outcome. This was a 3rd procedure. The 1st 2 did not help at all. They were not with Dr. Cook. She has a much better quality of life now. I think his clinic is the Vital Health Institute. People fly in to have their surgeries done by him. I think he just wrote a book that is coming out soon. Good luck to you & I hope you will be feeling better soon.
Thanks!

I hope we get it figured out so I don't feel this way again. (I've even thought about gallstones, but the CT scan said gallbladder was normal without stones.)
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:24 PM   #10
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i have kidney disease, and my kidney specialist never has any problems with the ketones... I really doubt this is an issue. I agree he's grasping at straws of the only thing that seems "not normal" to him.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:35 PM   #11
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So surgery to remove endometriosis doesn't last? Drats!!!!

Off to Google about it. Right now I just want the pain to STOP. (So I can see how women would jump at the surgery --- I'm about to.)

THanks -- I'm going to research it more.
I *really* know how you feel!!! I am not happy that I have to go to a specialized gyn pain management specialist person--most pain management does not deal with endometriosis. There really ought to be more research on this!!!
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:01 PM   #12
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i have kidney disease, and my kidney specialist never has any problems with the ketones... I really doubt this is an issue. I agree he's grasping at straws of the only thing that seems "not normal" to him.
Yes, I agree.

It was my understanding that I could remain in ketosis for the rest of my life --- which I totally intend to do! The idea of being out of the protection of ketosis scares me! (I am afraid that I would eat every carb in the house if I were to drop out of ketosis, so I don't ever plan to leave ketosis.)

Can't I stay in ketosis for the rest of my life? (Because that's what I plan to do.)


Quote:
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I *really* know how you feel!!! I am not happy that I have to go to a specialized gyn pain management specialist person--most pain management does not deal with endometriosis. There really ought to be more research on this!!!
I am so confused right now. I've made an appt. with my urologist, who I haven't seen since 2007. Maybe he'll have an idea about what's going on with me. I just want to cover all my bases before going under the knife for something I 'may or may not' have.

I guess I should expect my diet and ketosis to come under fire, when they can't figure out what's wrong.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:03 PM   #13
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I think its just as bad to say it can't possibly be related to ketones as it is to them suggesting it definitely is ketones. If they can't figure it out, maybe you should test it out by going on a temporary diet of eating more carbs to see if the situation improves.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:24 PM   #14
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I think its just as bad to say it can't possibly be related to ketones as it is to them suggesting it definitely is ketones. If they can't figure it out, maybe you should test it out by going on a temporary diet of eating more carbs to see if the situation improves.
I can't.

I am absolutely terrified of getting out of ketosis. I have not been out of ketosis since I started LCing, June 21, 2010. Really.

I just can't. I'm afraid my eating disorder will flare up and I won't. stop. eating.

I just can't.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:35 AM   #15
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I think the science is proving that a ketogenic diet is good for kidneys. Here is a link to a recent article on a study on this topic. If you do a search of your own, I am sure you will come up with lots of evidence that your doctor isn't up to date ...

Low carbohydrate diet may reverse kidney failure in people with diabetes

I am 100% with you on the notion that you should stick to your woe. You know what is best for you. Good luck finding the source of your pain and a remedy.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:56 AM   #16
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No advice just . Hope your urologist can give you more help.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:07 AM   #17
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I think the science is proving that a ketogenic diet is good for kidneys. Here is a link to a recent article on a study on this topic. If you do a search of your own, I am sure you will come up with lots of evidence that your doctor isn't up to date ...

Low carbohydrate diet may reverse kidney failure in people with diabetes

I am 100% with you on the notion that you should stick to your woe. You know what is best for you. Good luck finding the source of your pain and a remedy.
Fantastic article! I will be filing it away for future reference.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:06 AM   #18
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I think the science is proving that a ketogenic diet is good for kidneys. Here is a link to a recent article on a study on this topic. If you do a search of your own, I am sure you will come up with lots of evidence that your doctor isn't up to date ...

Low carbohydrate diet may reverse kidney failure in people with diabetes

I am 100% with you on the notion that you should stick to your woe. You know what is best for you. Good luck finding the source of your pain and a remedy.
Great article! Thanks!
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:11 AM   #19
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No advice just . Hope your urologist can give you more help.
Thank you!

I'm going this afternoon, so I will post when I get back with news.

I have been taking a new calcium supplement for the past couple of months, and I do take Vitamin D (and my level is high --- in the 80's) and I'm hypothyroid (sometimes problems with a parathryoid gland can make you have stones -- but that's a different thing) and my father gets stones regularly. So, maybe it's a calcium stone? But I don't know why the CT scan in Florida wouldn't have picked that up. Maybe there's a better test for it?

I'm feeling okay this morning. Maybe all that water-drinking yesterday did me some good and it's gone? IDK. I'll see how I feel later in the day.

Last night I didn't feel good. My lower abdomen was hurting, felt like it was spasming and it felt hard. I didn't want to be walking around making dinner (but I was.) It was better when I layed down.

A kidney stone wouldn't care if I was making dinner or not, would it? I don't know if endometriosis would care. Would laying down make it feel better?

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Old 02-08-2012, 10:14 AM   #20
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Beezer, I wish you success.

I have read that it is vital, vital, vital to drink enough water on a ketogenic diet, otherwise there is a risk of kidney stones. I can't find my bookmarks on that.

I keep an eye out for anything that would get me to go off of a ketogenic food plan. I've been VLC since July 2010, and have no plans to go off my food plan. Ideal nutrition on a ketogenic diet is of keen interest to me. If I find anything that is sound science which warns of any danger, I will post.

Being ketogenic has helped me tremendously.

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Old 02-08-2012, 10:52 AM   #21
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Beezer, I wish you success.

I have read that it is vital, vital, vital to drink enough water on a ketogenic diet, otherwise there is a risk of kidney stones. I can't find my bookmarks on that.

I keep an eye out for anything that would get me to go off of a ketogenic food plan. I've been VLC since July 2010, and have no plans to go off my food plan. Ideal nutrition on a ketogenic diet is of keen interest to me. If I find anything that is sound science which warns of any danger, I will post.

Being ketogenic has helped me tremendously.

Beezer, all the best to you!
Thank you!
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:23 PM   #22
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Beezer LA, I agree ketosis is a marvelous thing, but perhaps not as magic as all that... I was shocked that when I was forced to down 100 grams of straight glucose for a badly needed medical test, it really didn't bother me one whit! no cravings, no great weight gain, nothing. I was shocked.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:39 PM   #23
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Beezer LA, I agree ketosis is a marvelous thing, but perhaps not as magic as all that... I was shocked that when I was forced to down 100 grams of straight glucose for a badly needed medical test, it really didn't bother me one whit! no cravings, no great weight gain, nothing. I was shocked.
Well, it's also that I got so SICK once when they messed up my order and put pita chips in my chicken salad. I took a couple of bites before I figured it out. Boy, did I pay for it! I was so sick about an hour later. Sweaty upper lip, stomach pains, didn't know if I was going to explode or not. But perhaps that is a wheat issue that I wasn't aware of?

I just feel 'safe' in ketosis. KWIM?
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:43 PM   #24
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Well, I'm back from the urologist and totally disgusted. He didn't even examine me!!!

He said if the CT scan in Florida said there were no kidney stones, then there were no kidney stones.

He said I didn't currently have a bladder infection.

So. That was that. He got up to walk out and said, "Let me know if you change your mind about your options." I said, "About what? You didn't give me any options."

Right now, I'm thinking I had an ovarian cyst (because the CT scan in Florida said I did, with free fluid in my pelvic cavity) that burst and by the time I got back to Baton Rouge, 6 days later, the sonogram didn't show anything because it was all gone.

I just don't know why I'm having some risidual pain, but it seems to be getting better than it was.

I guess I'd rather wait until I am as bad as I was in Florida, go to OBGYN and let them sonogram me and then see if I have another cyst.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:39 AM   #25
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I don't know if you're still having problems with this, but I've got a lot of experience with endometriosis pain. Another thing that it could be is PCOS which is a pretty common, Polycystic ovarian syndrome. It's basically having small cysts in your uterus. They're not life threatening or anything, but they can be crazy painful when they rupture. Some people will pass out. It also unfortunately can cause heavy irregular periods, bad cramps facial hair growth, insulin resistance, acne weight gain. Not eating carbs would probably really help that bit of it and keeping ones weight down is supposed to help symptoms.

I have really painful endometriosis and I believe that both of these conditions have strong ties to estrogen dominance. It's a huge problem in our society with all the plastics we use, foods with hormones etc. Like people using plastic wrap in microwaves is really unhealthy. The plastics melt into the food and can mimic estrogen molocules and our estrogen receptors will recieve them. Ive read this and my college bio teacher told us this too. Avoid heating any food/liquid in plastics. Also staying away from foods that commonly cause inflammation has really helped me out.
-Gluten(any food with wheat/flour) I learned I'm gluten intolerant, I get awful cramping/diarrhea from any wheat/gluten products.
-Processed foods are very bad.
Some people have trouble with dairy, sugar and red meat causing inflammation. It's a rough diet that I mostly keep to. I avoid soy too because because it also mimics estrogen.

Also DIM is a very beneficial supplement that helps rid your body of excess estrogen. I get mine from Amazon. Calcium d glucarate is good too because it helps your liver clean our the excess hormones in general. DIM just gets rid of the bad estrogen and some studies are showing it can help reduce risks of breast and endometrial cancer.
Women with endometriosis and PCOS usually have really low progesterone levels too. Progesterone is a natural hormone that we need and helps fight that bad estrogen that feeds the cysts. I use a natural progesterone cream.
Oh also my Obgyn recommended that I take the DIM and she was really happy I started with the progesterone cream. I'm lucky I have such a good Obgyn. Most doctors don't understand or know how to treat female pelvic pain. I just had to share because I know how hard it is to find answers with so many bad doctors out there.
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:34 PM   #26
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Thanks for the advice. I just went through this pain all over again when another ovarian cyst popped about 2 weeks ago.

I haven't had a uterus since 2005, so it has to be ovaries (can I have endometriosis without uterus?) I still have 2 ovaries.

If I'm going to go through this every 6-8 months I will eventually get them removed. I thought I was through with 'lady problems' when I had my hysterectomy in 2005. Grrrr!
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