Expecting Mommies~June 2009! - Page 7

jbird3 · 06-13-2009, 05:54 PM

Cheri - you can probably get it used at Amazon for super cheap. But anyway it's teaching them to sleep, I don't like to say cry it out because honestly if you start early enough they really don't cry that much and if they do, at the absolute most (and worst case senario) it would take two weeks. But let me tell you even if it took that long, it would be worth it for the rest of your baby and toddler years to be soooooo much easier, more confident, less exasperating (and free-er). Believe me you will have people coming up to you ALL the time asking you how you did it, how you get your child to go to bed without a fuss, without a bottle and at the same reasonable time every night. But since you've got a few more weeks before you'd start, you could order the book just to see what you think. Swaddling won't make your baby too hot if the blanket is not too thick and your house is a normal temp. Remember that is what the hospitals do also. They actually sell the swaddler blankets now, that I haven't used yet, but my sister and my friend say they are AWESOME!! And don't feel bad for doing what you have to do now to get some rest. Right now you need it. Like I said, I wait at least 3 weeks before I start full on, all my babies had crying fits when they came home from the hospital for hours at a time sometimes. I don't blame them, if I was all comfy in there for 9 months and someone threw me into this crazy world, I would too.

When in doubt about the "method" of either "Babywise" or "The Baby Whisperer" think about all the Nanny shows on TV. What do the Nannies always tell the parents who's kids aren't sleeping in their beds or not going to sleep, it's pretty much all the same thing. So it's really not some crazy "fringe" idea.

Kaisergirl - I've heard good things about that book.

I'm going to see if my library has it.

MeekNHumble · 06-13-2009, 05:54 PM

Hi Tracey - OMG, look at baby Cayden - he is adorable - and look at all that hair he has

.

Thanks for your prayers.

Potaty · 06-13-2009, 08:53 PM

Tracey~He's gorgeous! And I have to make a hair comment too, it is so cute!!! I am so glad everything turned out happy and healthy even though it wasn't your ideal.

Meek~Still praying for you, hon.

As I chime in on the whole parenting discussion: Tucker slept in our room in a pack and play for the first 2-3 months. Once I learned how to BF laying down sometimes he even slept all snuggled up to me and I got some of the best sleep that way. I started to transition him to his crib for just naps at first. When he did great with that, I started putting him to bed in his crib. He was a night nurser until I night weaned him after his first birthday. To me, it was not a big deal to get up with him and nurse him. I was just thankful I had him to nurse since I struggled to have him. We have never had a problem at bedtime. We have always stuck to the same routine: bath if it is a bath night, book, nurse, bed whether he's still awake or not. I guess I do a combination of parenting methods and that is what I would suggest. Maybe you (general you) aren't 100% AP, but you could pick and choose what methods you like and then do your own type of parenting. Plus, every baby is different and what works for one may not work for another.

Nik · 06-13-2009, 09:59 PM

My two cents:
Ava was INSIDE of me for nine months, during some of which she had thoughts and memories. Sleeping NEXT TO me is a humane transition into this scary, new world... We both get great sleep, and I have a hot little cuddle bug next to me. I wouldn't have it any other way. When it's time for her to move on, she will.

aunatural · 06-14-2009, 03:14 AM

OK why am I not asleep?

After a marathon cry/feed/change diaper session with Cayden, I finally got him to sleep at 3:00 am. He's still asleep at 5:00 and I've tried to get some much needed sleep but I think I've maybe slept 20 minutes altogether

.

Anyway...

Jenny~ Yes, it was meconium but they suctioned his mouth and nose before he took his first breath so everything was fine. He tested negative on the Group B too.

Katy & Meek~ Yes, the hair was a big surprise for us too. We just were not expecting that much. He looks like he has a super curly afro

.

Cheri~ I tried the swaddling suggestion. I've resisted swaddling him because I think it looks like he's in a straight jacket and he moves his arms and legs A LOT...but it seems to have worked. Well, it's what worked when he finally fell asleep at 3:00. He always falls asleep on the breast. The tricky part for us is to get him to stay asleep once I remove him from the breast. I swaddled him and laid him down in the crib and he's sleeping fine.

MeekNHumble · 06-14-2009, 06:22 AM

Happy Sunday Ladies -

All is well. My pressure down to 128/77 as opposed to it being 140/90 to 141/89 (as of lastnight). I still look like the marshmellow man tho. My face is so swallon and so are my hands. I can barely type! I finally weighed myself and I was up to 220

I weighed that much when I first started Atkins. I'm down to 219 as of this morning. I decided to STOP being hard-headed and follow the advice of my doctor and the midwives. I'm placing myself on a very strict eating plan that will help reduce the water and ad in lowing my pressure. I'm no longer stressing about the situation. Thank you all for your prayers and encouraging words

.

Tracey - all of my children's hair was down their necks when they were born - especially my first son. By the time he turned one - it was so unmanageable - most people thought he was a little girl. This is him when he was first born:

eric1.jpg
Click photo to enlarge.

I had a dream that Christian is going to look like Eric did when he was a baby (lol).

Anyways... I hope you all have a wonderful day

.

Nik · 06-14-2009, 08:50 AM

Re: Co-sleeping. Sorry if I sounded snarky with my two cents. I just really love and appreciate the opportunity to share sleep with my baby. I'm so well rested, everyone in the family is happy, and I get to have a living teddy bear-the best of both worlds! I can see how, for a formula-fed baby, that situation would not work out as well. And it's true that DH and I have to get *creative* with our intimacy, but we have the rest of our lives for that-she's only a baby once.

BUT REMEMBER: It's never safe to sleep with your baby if you've been drinking, taking drugs (even prescription drugs or OTC antihistamines can make you drowsy), or are over-tired. Women who cannot feel their limbs for some reason or who have sleep walking episodes should not sleep with babies. Common sense is a mom's best friend.

Meek: So glad you're feeling better! I'm glad you're taking the advice of doctors and midwives. I'm sure they mentioned to you reasons that you would have to go in to the hospital right away, but I want to stress to you-DO NOT mess around with this!!! If you have upper abdominal pain at all (including unexplained vomiting), call the doctor WHILE you get in your car to go to the hospital. If you start to feel lightheaded or dizzy, or have very bad headaches, call your doctor WHILE someone else is driving you to the hospital. I know that you and little Christian are going to be just fine and safe and protected, but you also need to watch out for your life raft-catch it when it comes along, knowing that God sent it your way. (Remember, again, not to scare you, but since Christian doesn't share the same father as your other children, those pregnancies are not as able to predict how things will go with him.)

Cheri: So sorry that I didn't weigh in on the congrats. I am so excited to see beautiful little Cayden. He is truly gorgeous, and I'm absolutely proud of you for a very difficult labor and a courageous outcome. With DS, I had a rough labor followed by an emergency C-section, and I can identify with some of the things you may be feeling. Please don't hesitate to let us know if you need a tender ear.

Potaty · 06-14-2009, 10:53 AM

Nik~I didn't think you were snarky at all! Every parent is different and I can respect that others may not choose to parent AP style. For me, the maternal instinct was so strong for me that it was physically impossible for me to let Tucker cry without soothing him. (I'm not implying that non-APers don't have maternal instinct). When he got older, I was able to start letting him cry it out within reason. He's always been a well behaved, well adjusted baby who didn't really put up any fights when I was ready to have him sleep on his own. Like Dr. Sears says, whatever gets the family the most sleep is what they should do.

MeekNHumble · 06-14-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Meek: So glad you're feeling better! I'm glad you're taking the advice of doctors and midwives. I'm sure they mentioned to you reasons that you would have to go in to the hospital right away, but I want to stress to you-DO NOT mess around with this!!! If you have upper abdominal pain at all (including unexplained vomiting), call the doctor WHILE you get in your car to go to the hospital. If you start to feel lightheaded or dizzy, or have very bad headaches, call your doctor WHILE someone else is driving you to the hospital. I know that you and little Christian are going to be just fine and safe and protected, but you also need to watch out for your life raft-catch it when it comes along, knowing that God sent it your way. (Remember, again, not to scare you, but since Christian doesn't share the same father as your other children, those pregnancies are not as able to predict how things will go with him.)

Nikie - you are SO right! I have been doing a lot of reading on preeclampsi and have learned that the condition is NO JOKE! I am now aware of the warning symptoms and signs. Plus, the symptoms you mention were the same ones the midwife told me about. So far, I haven't had any, but I will remain alert! Thank you for your support

Potaty · 06-14-2009, 12:42 PM

Meek~so glad your BP is a bit better today! What kind of eating do they recommend for pre-E?

I was up for 2 hours with painful BH last night. I cannot believe I never even felt them the first time!

obraxton · 06-14-2009, 02:17 PM

All these beautiful babies. Cayden is

!
Can't give advice about co-sleeping vs crib, cause I can't take my own advice in that area. He got very sick once and only wanted to sleep with his head in my lap, and he's been with me ever since, and I keep warning him that he's in the crib by the weekend! But the first 5 months he was in a crib at the foot of the bed. The new crib is transitional and it's in my bedroom. He sleeps independently so it's time for him to go back.

Nik · 06-14-2009, 07:17 PM

I agree with the "whatever works" philosophy. My mom (who is Ava's caregiver when I'm away) is really good at putting Ava down in the Pack 'n Play for her naps. I just make sure I have the remote and a glass of water handy, and I hold her... We are entirely wrapped around her tiny finger.

But I can say that I DO NOT complain; I love this time and know it will be over soon.

Meek: Glad to know you're keeping your eyes out!

Katy: I did not feel ANY BH with my first, but I felt them from about 16 weeks on with Ava. Even though Ava was born almost ten years after my first, the BH were sometimes strong and painful, too. I'm guessing that since your uterus still remembers very well what it's getting ready to do, you will be feeling the BH for a good long time.

Potaty · 06-14-2009, 07:21 PM

Nik~I am hoping that means I will start contracting on my own this time! I never want to be on Pitocin again!

Melodybinoc · 06-14-2009, 07:42 PM

Ahh...thanks Dessa. I love the name, too. Izzy is short for Justin Israel. He is a junior and we figure this way it wont be confusing. Errols father is named Justin, also. Its a bit of a theme around here, I suppose. I love the new picture of the baby. How have you been lately?

Oh my gosh, Tracey. He is gorgeous! Judging from your avatar I see lots of your husband in his face. Isnt it funny how much older his hair makes him look? In the pic with his hat on he looks all tiny and newborn and in the pic with his hair showing he looks a good couple months old to me. What a gorgeous little face and those rosey little cheeks are just precious!

I know birthing is exhausting, but if your anything like me you will be barely sleeping/lightly sleeping for the first two weeks after having him. How are you healing? Does it hurt very badly?

Meek! He was precious!!! And yup...thats alot of hair.

Errol had alot of hair, but it fell out at 4 months and he was bald for a bit until his "real hair" came in. I say real hair because it was a completely different color and texture than his original hair

Im a total cosleeping, extended breastfeeding, babywearer. He has 18 years with me to get him from the womb to the door (out on his own)...I figure I can take some time for it and pace myself a bit.

But I am totally open to reading his cues. Errol has never had sleeping problems and has gone to bed at 8pm on his own since he was a year old. Its 9:30 now. There is never backtalk because I dont "do" back talk. So I guess Im a strict APer. LOL But when its bedtime he has been told the same thing...730 is a nap, 745 is a drink and a snack if he needs one, then teeth are brushed...8 he is in bed (back then it was my bed)...if he wriggle I told him "no moving, no talking and close your eyes". Those were the only words he heard from me after 8pm. But I would stay with him until he slept. He slept thru the night at 4 months. But every now and then he would wake up in the middle of the night hungry and we would nurse while I slept on my side.

Id say his biggest sleeping problem was that he has ALWAYS been an early riser. But thats my problem, not his. Im NOT an early riser. LOL So 6AM hurt for those first few years. Now he sleeps in...until 7pm sometimes. But he is older and more independent and sweet enough to let me rest.

I have the cosleeper crib ready for Izzy. Some babies dont like sleeping with you...it disturbs them. So I will be satisfied if he is just close. I wanna hear him breath.

DH cant imagine not sleeping with the baby with us. He thinks baby monitors are silly when you can just have him with us. But he understands that the baby might justnot be into it.

As far as crying it out...when they are brand new. I dont think I am physically capable of it. I mean just putting myself in a brand new persons place, this strange new environment, not feeling able to communicate...learning that suddenly there is this one way you can communicate discontent and then having it ignored. I cant even let other peoples babies cry it out. The sound just does something to my insides. Once we have a means of back and forth communication I feel better about getting my point across, letting them know they will be cared for no matter what and then saying "no more crying, gotta use your words", ya know?

Dessa...you cosleeping softy.

But how do you say no to that little face...your new avatar pic is precious!!

As for "too warm to swaddle", I ended up cutting up a sheet and using that...flannel and crochet and all the other blanky materials just seemed to warm to me, too. But a nice cool sheet did the trick and made for a snug swaddle. He loved being swaddled!

Melodybinoc · 06-14-2009, 07:45 PM

Ha....two posts while I was getting my last post together.

I never had BH with my first (12 years ago) and now they are pretty harsh and frequent. Sometimes it makes me feel too old for this baby business. I also dont remember round ligament pain last time, but woooo this time was crazy. I guess each pregnancy is different. I might still need to try once more for a girl...three boys wouldnt be bad, either. But oh the girl clothes area at the store does pull at my heart strings!

Tinkerloo · 06-15-2009, 01:09 AM

Hi Ladies -
20 minutes till my next "feed cycle" so I figured I'd jump on and start reading from June 1st when I went into labor and try to catch up - we'll see how far I get. I "talk" to you all in my head so many times every day, but with the feed & pump schedule I feel like I never have time for much else. Today though Ada and I took a wonderful nap with her curled up inside my pj's on my chest - it felt like heaven!

Guess I'm being ambitious - I've only read till 6/3 and it's almost time to get started - it's fun to read back to "the day" for me - it was such a wonderful day - and it makes me smile to see how you all were cheering for me from afar

I'll hopefully get caught up with the reading tomorrow! Can't wait to be back in the groove -

MeekNHumble · 06-15-2009, 03:21 AM

My pressure was 115/66 before bed

. Wow, that's low - but I'm not complaining. I have another DOC appointment today and will have it checked again in their office.

Have a good day,

.

Potaty · 06-15-2009, 11:28 AM

Amy~Good to see you!

Meek~Great news!

AsmallerME · 06-15-2009, 11:32 AM

Hey ladies. Wow, everyone is so active since I last posted.

Tracey - he's gorgeous!! Look at that hair!!

Meek - are you on medication to get your blood pressure under control? Cause your latest number looks pretty good.

Amy - so did you decide on the name Ada? Your description of her sleeping under your pjs sounds so wonderful. Congrats again!!

Since everyone is discussing sleeping through the night, I thought I'd chime in. Some of our friend's were recommended Baby Wise and their daughter was sleeping through the night by 8 weeks. I recommended it based on that to another friend and theirs was through the night in a similar fashion. So we ordered it yesterday (along with baby bargains). I told DH that he is in charge of reading that book and learning the rules. I wanted him to feel in charge of some aspect of this. Also, with swaddles, I found that swaddler's makes swaddle blankets in cotton for the summer and fleece for the winter. So there are options for lighter weight blankets.

Okay, on other news, I finally told my boss that I'm pregnant. It was so weird for some reason but I'm glad I did it. Now tomorrow morning is my 1-hour glucose test. I'm not looking forward to it. Boo!

Hope everyone has a great Monday!

DisneyPrincess · 06-15-2009, 12:04 PM

I took my mom to the sonogram this morning. The tech was new and wanted to try a 3D one with us. It was UNBELIEVABLE. We are going to do it again in a few months to see how he has changed. He has my nose and Adam's chin and is precious

Attachment 22477

Attachment 22478

jbird3 · 06-15-2009, 12:52 PM

Hi all

So happy, just got back from the dr. only gained 3 pounds in 4 weeks which is AWESOME for me. I wish I weren't gaining at all, but I know that is not realistic (or probably healthy) even though I gained a little too much in the beginning.

Yeah I totally say to each their own on the whole AP vs. "whatever else", I just can't NOT STAND to hear people complain about certain things like my SIL does when she acts like she knows it all, and none of it is working for what she wants. She can't stand (so she says) that the baby still sleeps with them, but she won't listen to any advice from anyone that has done this a few times. That is all I'm saying. I don't care if people let there kids breastfeed til their 7, I don't care if they let them sleep with them til there 18 as long as that is what they want and don't complain about it. Because there are ways to make it not that way is all I'm sayin.

And I do not let my babies cry it out when they are newborns, I don't even think that would be safe (and I wouldn't be able to take it either). Just so you all know that.

Asmallerme - Do not give the book away once the two of u are done reading it because I kid you not you will refer back to it, MANY times!! Good luck

Off to the pool. Everyone have a great day.

MeekNHumble · 06-15-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisneyPrincess

I took my mom to the sonogram this morning. The tech was new and wanted to try a 3D one with us. It was UNBELIEVABLE. We are going to do it again in a few months to see how he has changed. He has my nose and Adam's chin and is precious

Attachment 22477

Attachment 22478

Wow, these are GREAT! How many weeks are you again?

MeekNHumble · 06-15-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsmallerME

Hey ladies. Wow, everyone is so active since I last posted.

Tracey - he's gorgeous!! Look at that hair!!

Meek - are you on medication to get your blood pressure under control? Cause your latest number looks pretty good.

Amy - so did you decide on the name Ada? Your description of her sleeping under your pjs sounds so wonderful. Congrats again!!

Since everyone is discussing sleeping through the night, I thought I'd chime in. Some of our friend's were recommended Baby Wise and their daughter was sleeping through the night by 8 weeks. I recommended it based on that to another friend and theirs was through the night in a similar fashion. So we ordered it yesterday (along with baby bargains). I told DH that he is in charge of reading that book and learning the rules. I wanted him to feel in charge of some aspect of this. Also, with swaddles, I found that swaddler's makes swaddle blankets in cotton for the summer and fleece for the winter. So there are options for lighter weight blankets.

Okay, on other news, I finally told my boss that I'm pregnant. It was so weird for some reason but I'm glad I did it. Now tomorrow morning is my 1-hour glucose test. I'm not looking forward to it. Boo!

Hope everyone has a great Monday!

No meds, just prayer, water, no salt and lots of rest. I just took it again 121/75 - now this is the number I am use to seeing. I bet the RISE in my bp had a lot to do with the way I was eating

.

Melodybinoc · 06-15-2009, 03:14 PM

Oh Meek! That is wonderful!!! I have been reading about others who were induced early. Along with the stories of people just birthing big babies (like me) there were the other reasons for early inductions...like full blown eclampsia and such. Scary scary and I wasnt even going to allow the thought of that happening to you to enter my mind. Im glad that things are going in a good direction now

Whatever you are doing, keep it up!!

Eww...BF a 7 year old would be...weird. By extended I meant that I nursed til DS was 16 months. It was extended for me because I really only expected to nurse for a couple weeks so he could get the benefit of colostrum. But I remember the hardcore la leche leaguers when DS was little. They kinda scared me. I never even read about attachment parenting with DS. Everything I did was just second nature. I dont even know if I consider me an APer. I guess I follow the description. But Im only excited about babywearing this time because I pushed an empty stroller with a baby in one arm so often. The idea of going to the mall with a baby and having hands sounds amazing!

So I got lots of different fabrics and Im making my own slings. I have it all organized and as soon as we move I can set up my sewing table and finish them all up.

Breastfeeding was just cuz I couldnt get a bottle to feel clean enough and baby sleeping was just because I wanted him close and to know he was breathing. Im just an instinct girl.

Im bored today. We got all the orders early. DH did my brakes earlier and now is fixing some stuff up at home to make it perfect before the walkthru. I didnt have a deposit required when we moved in...so anything they charge us is right out of our pocket.

DS hasnt yet arrived from his dads house. His b-day party is tomorrow. It might rain a little, but its supposed to be warm. As long as the waterpark doesnt close Im good! LOL Were buying the tickets today online. 4 of the 5 boys are going. Should be fun!

So I have 30 day until the begining of the week that I will be induced! Wooo...My MIL wants the 18th cuz it would peeve one of her daughters to share her birthday...and she thinks that would be pretty funny. This SIL is really bugged that anyone would consider being born during July since its her birthmonth...so to actually horn in on her birthday would crack MIL up. But I doubt my Doc is gonna schedule working on a Saturday if he doesnt have to. We shall see.

Im glad Izzy will be born early...he feels alot more like a Cancer than a Leo.

I wouldnt mind if he was born on the 4th of July, either. Hmmmm...

How are the new babies doing this fine Monday?

MeekNHumble · 06-15-2009, 04:46 PM

Thank you so much Melody

. I had read some horrific stories myself on preeclampsia dot com. The thought of delivery Christian early or losing him made my heart almost faint. I knew I had to make some necessary changes - and quick! Now I just have to pray that no more protein will be found in my urine. I'll have the results back on Wednesday.

DisneyPrincess · 06-15-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeekNHumble

Wow, these are GREAT! How many weeks are you again?

In my 24th

She warned us that the baby might still be bony at this stage, which is why they dont do the 3D ones until 28-32 weeks. i think he looked ok!

Tinkerloo · 06-15-2009, 06:49 PM

Back to birth weight today - 5lbs 11oz - and latching on much better - took 20ml from my breast! Happy 2 week Birthday Ada Jean G... (aka Addy) - wow exactly 2 weeks ago right now she was arriving!

And now I'm going to drive us for the first time over to the OB for a last minute appt - I think I may have a yeast infection - lovely... a little nervous to be driving myself so tired, but it must be done.

Potaty · 06-15-2009, 07:43 PM

Amy:

Ada Jean "Addy" born June 1st @ 5:50pm; 5lbs.11 ozs.

Cheri:

Bailey Lynn born on June 7th @ 5:12 am; 8lbs 15oz 22inches

Tracey:

Cayden Thomas born on June 9th @ 9:27; 7 lbs 11 oz., 19 3/4 in long.

Bridgett: EDD June 19, 2009; Baby Girl

Melody: EDD July 30, 2009; Baby Boy
Katy: EDD September 5, 2009; Baby Girl
Jenny: EDD September 10, 2009; Baby Boy
Cryssi: EDD September 28, 2009; Baby Boy
Jackie: EDD October 3, 2009; Baby Boy
Meekness: EDD October 13, 2009; Baby Boy
Julie: EDD November 2, 2009; Gender TBD
Amber: EDD December 1, 2009; Gender TBD

Sorry the list is no longer festive with color, for those of you who don't go onto the PG, some members broke TOS and now they have banned the use of colors.

Potaty · 06-15-2009, 07:44 PM

Amy~Love that pic, she is contemplative! Hope your dr. visit went well.

jbird3 · 06-15-2009, 08:44 PM

Amy - OMGosh that pic is so funny!!!

She's awesome!!!!

Meek - I guess I never realized preeclampsia could rear it's ugly head so early. I'm glad that things are straightening out, I know that has got to be scary to say the least. I'll keep prayin' for you and baby Christian.

So how freaked out are you guys about that news story where the woman from Craigslist killed the pregnant lady and cut the baby out. The baby died too. But the woman had been telling people she was pregnant when she wasn't for months. CRAZY scary. I am totally freaked out and NOT going to take walks by myself ANYMORE now that I'm so obviously pregnant. People are insane. What is wrong with people these days?

Leaving for VA tomorrow night, so I may not post as much for a few days while we take our time driving up there.

06-13-2009, 05:54 PM	#181
jbird3 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 287 Blog Entries: 1 Gallery: jbird3 Stats: 146/150.8 (had a baby 8/24/09)/135	Cheri - you can probably get it used at Amazon for super cheap. But anyway it's teaching them to sleep, I don't like to say cry it out because honestly if you start early enough they really don't cry that much and if they do, at the absolute most (and worst case senario) it would take two weeks. But let me tell you even if it took that long, it would be worth it for the rest of your baby and toddler years to be soooooo much easier, more confident, less exasperating (and free-er). Believe me you will have people coming up to you ALL the time asking you how you did it, how you get your child to go to bed without a fuss, without a bottle and at the same reasonable time every night. But since you've got a few more weeks before you'd start, you could order the book just to see what you think. Swaddling won't make your baby too hot if the blanket is not too thick and your house is a normal temp. Remember that is what the hospitals do also. They actually sell the swaddler blankets now, that I haven't used yet, but my sister and my friend say they are AWESOME!! And don't feel bad for doing what you have to do now to get some rest. Right now you need it. Like I said, I wait at least 3 weeks before I start full on, all my babies had crying fits when they came home from the hospital for hours at a time sometimes. I don't blame them, if I was all comfy in there for 9 months and someone threw me into this crazy world, I would too. When in doubt about the "method" of either "Babywise" or "The Baby Whisperer" think about all the Nanny shows on TV. What do the Nannies always tell the parents who's kids aren't sleeping in their beds or not going to sleep, it's pretty much all the same thing. So it's really not some crazy "fringe" idea. Kaisergirl - I've heard good things about that book. I'm going to see if my library has it. __________________ ~Jenny 'The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you" Baby boy #4 born Aug. 24th 8 lbs .03 oz (19 3/4 in.)

06-14-2009, 03:14 AM	#185
aunatural MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,410 Gallery: aunatural Stats: 150/don't want to know/125 WOE: Somersize/Schwarzbein Start Date: 02/06/06	OK why am I not asleep? After a marathon cry/feed/change diaper session with Cayden, I finally got him to sleep at 3:00 am. He's still asleep at 5:00 and I've tried to get some much needed sleep but I think I've maybe slept 20 minutes altogether. Anyway... Jenny~ Yes, it was meconium but they suctioned his mouth and nose before he took his first breath so everything was fine. He tested negative on the Group B too. Katy & Meek~ Yes, the hair was a big surprise for us too. We just were not expecting that much. He looks like he has a super curly afro. Cheri~ I tried the swaddling suggestion. I've resisted swaddling him because I think it looks like he's in a straight jacket and he moves his arms and legs A LOT...but it seems to have worked. Well, it's what worked when he finally fell asleep at 3:00. He always falls asleep on the breast. The tricky part for us is to get him to stay asleep once I remove him from the breast. I swaddled him and laid him down in the crib and he's sleeping fine. __________________ Tracey "Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda "Where there's a will, there's a way." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Highest pregnancy weight- 179 lbs. Weight @ 1 week PP- 164 pounds. Weight @ 6 weeks PP- 155 pounds Last edited by aunatural; 06-14-2009 at 03:21 AM..

06-14-2009, 06:22 AM	#186
MeekNHumble MarriedNChrist to Rob Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,776 Blog Entries: 14 Gallery: MeekNHumble Stats: 230/202/? WOE: HCG at 206.8 on 11/16/2009	Happy Sunday Ladies - All is well. My pressure down to 128/77 as opposed to it being 140/90 to 141/89 (as of lastnight). I still look like the marshmellow man tho. My face is so swallon and so are my hands. I can barely type! I finally weighed myself and I was up to 220 I weighed that much when I first started Atkins. I'm down to 219 as of this morning. I decided to STOP being hard-headed and follow the advice of my doctor and the midwives. I'm placing myself on a very strict eating plan that will help reduce the water and ad in lowing my pressure. I'm no longer stressing about the situation. Thank you all for your prayers and encouraging words . Tracey - all of my children's hair was down their necks when they were born - especially my first son. By the time he turned one - it was so unmanageable - most people thought he was a little girl. This is him when he was first born: eric1.jpg Click photo to enlarge. I had a dream that Christian is going to look like Eric did when he was a baby (lol). Anyways... I hope you all have a wonderful day . __________________ Meekness... RELEASING THE THINNER ME WITH HCG!

06-14-2009, 08:50 AM	#187
Nik MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,693 Gallery: Nik Stats: (299) 268/234/150 WOE: no sugar, no wheat Start Date: 8/25/07; 2/11/09	Re: Co-sleeping. Sorry if I sounded snarky with my two cents. I just really love and appreciate the opportunity to share sleep with my baby. I'm so well rested, everyone in the family is happy, and I get to have a living teddy bear-the best of both worlds! I can see how, for a formula-fed baby, that situation would not work out as well. And it's true that DH and I have to get creative with our intimacy, but we have the rest of our lives for that-she's only a baby once. BUT REMEMBER: It's never safe to sleep with your baby if you've been drinking, taking drugs (even prescription drugs or OTC antihistamines can make you drowsy), or are over-tired. Women who cannot feel their limbs for some reason or who have sleep walking episodes should not sleep with babies. Common sense is a mom's best friend. Meek: So glad you're feeling better! I'm glad you're taking the advice of doctors and midwives. I'm sure they mentioned to you reasons that you would have to go in to the hospital right away, but I want to stress to you-DO NOT mess around with this!!! If you have upper abdominal pain at all (including unexplained vomiting), call the doctor WHILE you get in your car to go to the hospital. If you start to feel lightheaded or dizzy, or have very bad headaches, call your doctor WHILE someone else is driving you to the hospital. I know that you and little Christian are going to be just fine and safe and protected, but you also need to watch out for your life raft-catch it when it comes along, knowing that God sent it your way. (Remember, again, not to scare you, but since Christian doesn't share the same father as your other children, those pregnancies are not as able to predict how things will go with him.) Cheri: So sorry that I didn't weigh in on the congrats. I am so excited to see beautiful little Cayden. He is truly gorgeous, and I'm absolutely proud of you for a very difficult labor and a courageous outcome. With DS, I had a rough labor followed by an emergency C-section, and I can identify with some of the things you may be feeling. Please don't hesitate to let us know if you need a tender ear. __________________ Enjoying my precious baby 2/25: 243; 25 pounds lost in February! (including baby) 4/15: 236; 7 pounds lost in April! 7/31: 233; 3 pounds lost in July! August Goal: no sugar Nikie Indiana Last edited by Nik; 06-14-2009 at 09:02 AM..

06-14-2009, 07:42 PM	#194
Melodybinoc Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 206 Gallery: Melodybinoc Stats: 186/186/135 5'5" with no shoes WOE: Moderation while Breastfeeding Start Date: 10/22/09	Ahh...thanks Dessa. I love the name, too. Izzy is short for Justin Israel. He is a junior and we figure this way it wont be confusing. Errols father is named Justin, also. Its a bit of a theme around here, I suppose. I love the new picture of the baby. How have you been lately? Oh my gosh, Tracey. He is gorgeous! Judging from your avatar I see lots of your husband in his face. Isnt it funny how much older his hair makes him look? In the pic with his hat on he looks all tiny and newborn and in the pic with his hair showing he looks a good couple months old to me. What a gorgeous little face and those rosey little cheeks are just precious! I know birthing is exhausting, but if your anything like me you will be barely sleeping/lightly sleeping for the first two weeks after having him. How are you healing? Does it hurt very badly? Meek! He was precious!!! And yup...thats alot of hair. Errol had alot of hair, but it fell out at 4 months and he was bald for a bit until his "real hair" came in. I say real hair because it was a completely different color and texture than his original hair Im a total cosleeping, extended breastfeeding, babywearer. He has 18 years with me to get him from the womb to the door (out on his own)...I figure I can take some time for it and pace myself a bit. But I am totally open to reading his cues. Errol has never had sleeping problems and has gone to bed at 8pm on his own since he was a year old. Its 9:30 now. There is never backtalk because I dont "do" back talk. So I guess Im a strict APer. LOL But when its bedtime he has been told the same thing...730 is a nap, 745 is a drink and a snack if he needs one, then teeth are brushed...8 he is in bed (back then it was my bed)...if he wriggle I told him "no moving, no talking and close your eyes". Those were the only words he heard from me after 8pm. But I would stay with him until he slept. He slept thru the night at 4 months. But every now and then he would wake up in the middle of the night hungry and we would nurse while I slept on my side. Id say his biggest sleeping problem was that he has ALWAYS been an early riser. But thats my problem, not his. Im NOT an early riser. LOL So 6AM hurt for those first few years. Now he sleeps in...until 7pm sometimes. But he is older and more independent and sweet enough to let me rest. I have the cosleeper crib ready for Izzy. Some babies dont like sleeping with you...it disturbs them. So I will be satisfied if he is just close. I wanna hear him breath. DH cant imagine not sleeping with the baby with us. He thinks baby monitors are silly when you can just have him with us. But he understands that the baby might justnot be into it. As far as crying it out...when they are brand new. I dont think I am physically capable of it. I mean just putting myself in a brand new persons place, this strange new environment, not feeling able to communicate...learning that suddenly there is this one way you can communicate discontent and then having it ignored. I cant even let other peoples babies cry it out. The sound just does something to my insides. Once we have a means of back and forth communication I feel better about getting my point across, letting them know they will be cared for no matter what and then saying "no more crying, gotta use your words", ya know? Dessa...you cosleeping softy. But how do you say no to that little face...your new avatar pic is precious!! As for "too warm to swaddle", I ended up cutting up a sheet and using that...flannel and crochet and all the other blanky materials just seemed to warm to me, too. But a nice cool sheet did the trick and made for a snug swaddle. He loved being swaddled! __________________ *Melody* Wife & Mommy of 2 Each decision that we make defines what we believe we are worth...

06-13-2009, 05:54 PM	#182
MeekNHumble MarriedNChrist to Rob Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,776 Blog Entries: 14 Gallery: MeekNHumble Stats: 230/202/? WOE: HCG at 206.8 on 11/16/2009	Hi Tracey - OMG, look at baby Cayden - he is adorable - and look at all that hair he has . Thanks for your prayers.

06-13-2009, 08:53 PM	#183
Potaty Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mulletvane, where mullets grow long and luxurious Posts: 4,605 Gallery: Potaty	Tracey~He's gorgeous! And I have to make a hair comment too, it is so cute!!! I am so glad everything turned out happy and healthy even though it wasn't your ideal. Meek~Still praying for you, hon. As I chime in on the whole parenting discussion: Tucker slept in our room in a pack and play for the first 2-3 months. Once I learned how to BF laying down sometimes he even slept all snuggled up to me and I got some of the best sleep that way. I started to transition him to his crib for just naps at first. When he did great with that, I started putting him to bed in his crib. He was a night nurser until I night weaned him after his first birthday. To me, it was not a big deal to get up with him and nurse him. I was just thankful I had him to nurse since I struggled to have him. We have never had a problem at bedtime. We have always stuck to the same routine: bath if it is a bath night, book, nurse, bed whether he's still awake or not. I guess I do a combination of parenting methods and that is what I would suggest. Maybe you (general you) aren't 100% AP, but you could pick and choose what methods you like and then do your own type of parenting. Plus, every baby is different and what works for one may not work for another.

06-13-2009, 09:59 PM	#184
Nik MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,693 Gallery: Nik Stats: (299) 268/234/150 WOE: no sugar, no wheat Start Date: 8/25/07; 2/11/09	My two cents: Ava was INSIDE of me for nine months, during some of which she had thoughts and memories. Sleeping NEXT TO me is a humane transition into this scary, new world... We both get great sleep, and I have a hot little cuddle bug next to me. I wouldn't have it any other way. When it's time for her to move on, she will.

06-14-2009, 10:53 AM	#188
Potaty Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mulletvane, where mullets grow long and luxurious Posts: 4,605 Gallery: Potaty	Nik~I didn't think you were snarky at all! Every parent is different and I can respect that others may not choose to parent AP style. For me, the maternal instinct was so strong for me that it was physically impossible for me to let Tucker cry without soothing him. (I'm not implying that non-APers don't have maternal instinct). When he got older, I was able to start letting him cry it out within reason. He's always been a well behaved, well adjusted baby who didn't really put up any fights when I was ready to have him sleep on his own. Like Dr. Sears says, whatever gets the family the most sleep is what they should do.

06-14-2009, 12:42 PM	#190
Potaty Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mulletvane, where mullets grow long and luxurious Posts: 4,605 Gallery: Potaty	Meek~so glad your BP is a bit better today! What kind of eating do they recommend for pre-E? I was up for 2 hours with painful BH last night. I cannot believe I never even felt them the first time!

06-14-2009, 02:17 PM	#191
obraxton Senior LCF Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Clementon NJ Posts: 975 Gallery: obraxton Stats: 260/252/150 WOE: Whatever will work at this point! Start Date: 02/01/09	All these beautiful babies. Cayden is ! Can't give advice about co-sleeping vs crib, cause I can't take my own advice in that area. He got very sick once and only wanted to sleep with his head in my lap, and he's been with me ever since, and I keep warning him that he's in the crib by the weekend! But the first 5 months he was in a crib at the foot of the bed. The new crib is transitional and it's in my bedroom. He sleeps independently so it's time for him to go back.

06-14-2009, 07:17 PM	#192
Nik MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,693 Gallery: Nik Stats: (299) 268/234/150 WOE: no sugar, no wheat Start Date: 8/25/07; 2/11/09	I agree with the "whatever works" philosophy. My mom (who is Ava's caregiver when I'm away) is really good at putting Ava down in the Pack 'n Play for her naps. I just make sure I have the remote and a glass of water handy, and I hold her... We are entirely wrapped around her tiny finger. But I can say that I DO NOT complain; I love this time and know it will be over soon. Meek: Glad to know you're keeping your eyes out! Katy: I did not feel ANY BH with my first, but I felt them from about 16 weeks on with Ava. Even though Ava was born almost ten years after my first, the BH were sometimes strong and painful, too. I'm guessing that since your uterus still remembers very well what it's getting ready to do, you will be feeling the BH for a good long time.

06-14-2009, 07:21 PM	#193
Potaty Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mulletvane, where mullets grow long and luxurious Posts: 4,605 Gallery: Potaty	Nik~I am hoping that means I will start contracting on my own this time! I never want to be on Pitocin again!

06-14-2009, 07:45 PM	#195
Melodybinoc Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 206 Gallery: Melodybinoc Stats: 186/186/135 5'5" with no shoes WOE: Moderation while Breastfeeding Start Date: 10/22/09	Ha....two posts while I was getting my last post together. I never had BH with my first (12 years ago) and now they are pretty harsh and frequent. Sometimes it makes me feel too old for this baby business. I also dont remember round ligament pain last time, but woooo this time was crazy. I guess each pregnancy is different. I might still need to try once more for a girl...three boys wouldnt be bad, either. But oh the girl clothes area at the store does pull at my heart strings!

06-15-2009, 01:09 AM	#196
Tinkerloo MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 1,207 Gallery: Tinkerloo Stats: 171/151/125 WOE: CAD Start Date: April 2008	Hi Ladies - 20 minutes till my next "feed cycle" so I figured I'd jump on and start reading from June 1st when I went into labor and try to catch up - we'll see how far I get. I "talk" to you all in my head so many times every day, but with the feed & pump schedule I feel like I never have time for much else. Today though Ada and I took a wonderful nap with her curled up inside my pj's on my chest - it felt like heaven! Guess I'm being ambitious - I've only read till 6/3 and it's almost time to get started - it's fun to read back to "the day" for me - it was such a wonderful day - and it makes me smile to see how you all were cheering for me from afar I'll hopefully get caught up with the reading tomorrow! Can't wait to be back in the groove - __________________ Amy 10/17/08 Pregnant at 160 Home from hospital 6/4/09 at 170.5 (was 180 on entry) 10/01/09 - 171.5 Goal #1 - Back to Pre pregnancy weight - 160! Ideal goal - under 140 for Ada's first bday - June 2010

06-15-2009, 03:21 AM	#197
MeekNHumble MarriedNChrist to Rob Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,776 Blog Entries: 14 Gallery: MeekNHumble Stats: 230/202/? WOE: HCG at 206.8 on 11/16/2009	My pressure was 115/66 before bed . Wow, that's low - but I'm not complaining. I have another DOC appointment today and will have it checked again in their office. Have a good day, .

06-15-2009, 11:28 AM	#198
Potaty Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mulletvane, where mullets grow long and luxurious Posts: 4,605 Gallery: Potaty	Amy~Good to see you! Meek~Great news!

06-15-2009, 11:32 AM	#199
AsmallerME MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,782 Gallery: AsmallerME Stats: 286/pregnant/199 WOE: Atkins again Start Date: too many times	Hey ladies. Wow, everyone is so active since I last posted. Tracey - he's gorgeous!! Look at that hair!! Meek - are you on medication to get your blood pressure under control? Cause your latest number looks pretty good. Amy - so did you decide on the name Ada? Your description of her sleeping under your pjs sounds so wonderful. Congrats again!! Since everyone is discussing sleeping through the night, I thought I'd chime in. Some of our friend's were recommended Baby Wise and their daughter was sleeping through the night by 8 weeks. I recommended it based on that to another friend and theirs was through the night in a similar fashion. So we ordered it yesterday (along with baby bargains). I told DH that he is in charge of reading that book and learning the rules. I wanted him to feel in charge of some aspect of this. Also, with swaddles, I found that swaddler's makes swaddle blankets in cotton for the summer and fleece for the winter. So there are options for lighter weight blankets. Okay, on other news, I finally told my boss that I'm pregnant. It was so weird for some reason but I'm glad I did it. Now tomorrow morning is my 1-hour glucose test. I'm not looking forward to it. Boo! Hope everyone has a great Monday! __________________ Amber

06-15-2009, 12:04 PM	#200
DisneyPrincess Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: N.C. Posts: 25,903 Gallery: DisneyPrincess Stats: Pregnant + 40/-21/-45(?) Start Date: 10/12/09	I took my mom to the sonogram this morning. The tech was new and wanted to try a 3D one with us. It was UNBELIEVABLE. We are going to do it again in a few months to see how he has changed. He has my nose and Adam's chin and is precious Attachment 22477 Attachment 22478

06-15-2009, 12:52 PM	#201
jbird3 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 287 Blog Entries: 1 Gallery: jbird3 Stats: 146/150.8 (had a baby 8/24/09)/135	Hi all So happy, just got back from the dr. only gained 3 pounds in 4 weeks which is AWESOME for me. I wish I weren't gaining at all, but I know that is not realistic (or probably healthy) even though I gained a little too much in the beginning. Yeah I totally say to each their own on the whole AP vs. "whatever else", I just can't NOT STAND to hear people complain about certain things like my SIL does when she acts like she knows it all, and none of it is working for what she wants. She can't stand (so she says) that the baby still sleeps with them, but she won't listen to any advice from anyone that has done this a few times. That is all I'm saying. I don't care if people let there kids breastfeed til their 7, I don't care if they let them sleep with them til there 18 as long as that is what they want and don't complain about it. Because there are ways to make it not that way is all I'm sayin. And I do not let my babies cry it out when they are newborns, I don't even think that would be safe (and I wouldn't be able to take it either). Just so you all know that. Asmallerme - Do not give the book away once the two of u are done reading it because I kid you not you will refer back to it, MANY times!! Good luck Off to the pool. Everyone have a great day.

06-15-2009, 03:14 PM	#204
Melodybinoc Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 206 Gallery: Melodybinoc Stats: 186/186/135 5'5" with no shoes WOE: Moderation while Breastfeeding Start Date: 10/22/09	Oh Meek! That is wonderful!!! I have been reading about others who were induced early. Along with the stories of people just birthing big babies (like me) there were the other reasons for early inductions...like full blown eclampsia and such. Scary scary and I wasnt even going to allow the thought of that happening to you to enter my mind. Im glad that things are going in a good direction now Whatever you are doing, keep it up!! Eww...BF a 7 year old would be...weird. By extended I meant that I nursed til DS was 16 months. It was extended for me because I really only expected to nurse for a couple weeks so he could get the benefit of colostrum. But I remember the hardcore la leche leaguers when DS was little. They kinda scared me. I never even read about attachment parenting with DS. Everything I did was just second nature. I dont even know if I consider me an APer. I guess I follow the description. But Im only excited about babywearing this time because I pushed an empty stroller with a baby in one arm so often. The idea of going to the mall with a baby and having hands sounds amazing! So I got lots of different fabrics and Im making my own slings. I have it all organized and as soon as we move I can set up my sewing table and finish them all up. Breastfeeding was just cuz I couldnt get a bottle to feel clean enough and baby sleeping was just because I wanted him close and to know he was breathing. Im just an instinct girl. Im bored today. We got all the orders early. DH did my brakes earlier and now is fixing some stuff up at home to make it perfect before the walkthru. I didnt have a deposit required when we moved in...so anything they charge us is right out of our pocket. DS hasnt yet arrived from his dads house. His b-day party is tomorrow. It might rain a little, but its supposed to be warm. As long as the waterpark doesnt close Im good! LOL Were buying the tickets today online. 4 of the 5 boys are going. Should be fun! So I have 30 day until the begining of the week that I will be induced! Wooo...My MIL wants the 18th cuz it would peeve one of her daughters to share her birthday...and she thinks that would be pretty funny. This SIL is really bugged that anyone would consider being born during July since its her birthmonth...so to actually horn in on her birthday would crack MIL up. But I doubt my Doc is gonna schedule working on a Saturday if he doesnt have to. We shall see. Im glad Izzy will be born early...he feels alot more like a Cancer than a Leo. I wouldnt mind if he was born on the 4th of July, either. Hmmmm... How are the new babies doing this fine Monday?

06-15-2009, 04:46 PM	#205
MeekNHumble MarriedNChrist to Rob Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,776 Blog Entries: 14 Gallery: MeekNHumble Stats: 230/202/? WOE: HCG at 206.8 on 11/16/2009	Thank you so much Melody . I had read some horrific stories myself on preeclampsia dot com. The thought of delivery Christian early or losing him made my heart almost faint. I knew I had to make some necessary changes - and quick! Now I just have to pray that no more protein will be found in my urine. I'll have the results back on Wednesday.

06-15-2009, 07:43 PM	#208
Potaty Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mulletvane, where mullets grow long and luxurious Posts: 4,605 Gallery: Potaty	Amy: Ada Jean "Addy" born June 1st @ 5:50pm; 5lbs.11 ozs. Cheri: Bailey Lynn born on June 7th @ 5:12 am; 8lbs 15oz 22inches Tracey: Cayden Thomas born on June 9th @ 9:27; 7 lbs 11 oz., 19 3/4 in long. Bridgett: EDD June 19, 2009; Baby Girl Melody: EDD July 30, 2009; Baby Boy Katy: EDD September 5, 2009; Baby Girl Jenny: EDD September 10, 2009; Baby Boy Cryssi: EDD September 28, 2009; Baby Boy Jackie: EDD October 3, 2009; Baby Boy Meekness: EDD October 13, 2009; Baby Boy Julie: EDD November 2, 2009; Gender TBD Amber: EDD December 1, 2009; Gender TBD Sorry the list is no longer festive with color, for those of you who don't go onto the PG, some members broke TOS and now they have banned the use of colors.

06-15-2009, 07:44 PM	#209
Potaty Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mulletvane, where mullets grow long and luxurious Posts: 4,605 Gallery: Potaty	Amy~Love that pic, she is contemplative! Hope your dr. visit went well.

06-15-2009, 08:44 PM	#210
jbird3 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 287 Blog Entries: 1 Gallery: jbird3 Stats: 146/150.8 (had a baby 8/24/09)/135	Amy - OMGosh that pic is so funny!!! She's awesome!!!! Meek - I guess I never realized preeclampsia could rear it's ugly head so early. I'm glad that things are straightening out, I know that has got to be scary to say the least. I'll keep prayin' for you and baby Christian. So how freaked out are you guys about that news story where the woman from Craigslist killed the pregnant lady and cut the baby out. The baby died too. But the woman had been telling people she was pregnant when she wasn't for months. CRAZY scary. I am totally freaked out and NOT going to take walks by myself ANYMORE now that I'm so obviously pregnant. People are insane. What is wrong with people these days? Leaving for VA tomorrow night, so I may not post as much for a few days while we take our time driving up there.

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