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Old 05-12-2014, 02:04 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by LoCarbGal View Post
The timing of eating that you describe is a very real challenge. And the last thing you need is for that to stress you out and make you think MORE about eating. I'm really trying to make what I've learned from JUDDD work for me in IE as well. Feeling hungry is okay. It does usually pass anyway and then will come back again later, hopefully when it's more convenient to eat and enjoy.

This is such a learning experience!
I've thought about why I could go all day not eating on a DD, but on IE it doesn't work for me to get overly hungry (as in, getting very hungry and not being able to eat for 3 hours). Also the "hunger is not an emergency" thought doesn't work as well. Maybe because at the next meal it's harder for me to listen to my "that's enough" cues because I'm so hungry I'm eating too fast. Maybe also because I haven't told myself, "It's not an eating day ... wait until tomorrow" ... not sure. But, I tried a technique from Ditching Diets today that was very helpful in dealing with hunger before it was time to eat. Really liking that book.
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Old 05-12-2014, 02:18 PM   #62
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I found that part of Ditching Diets helpful as well. I really struggle though if I start eating when I'm not hungry, so trying to find a balance somewhere. Last week, I found carrots to be a great way to temporarily satisfy hunger when I had an approaching meal I was looking forward to.
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Old 05-12-2014, 02:27 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by calichris View Post
I've thought about why I could go all day not eating on a DD, but on IE it doesn't work for me to get overly hungry (as in, getting very hungry and not being able to eat for 3 hours). Also the "hunger is not an emergency" thought doesn't work as well. Maybe because at the next meal it's harder for me to listen to my "that's enough" cues because I'm so hungry I'm eating too fast. Maybe also because I haven't told myself, "It's not an eating day ... wait until tomorrow" ... not sure. But, I tried a technique from Ditching Diets today that was very helpful in dealing with hunger before it was time to eat. Really liking that book.
I have found that I do get a little stressed about it if I'm getting hungry and can't eat for a while. It's weird, coming from fasting every other day for 2 years, to now have a problem delaying food. You hit on some key points I've identified about myself. If I get overly hungry, I eat faster and can end up eating more than I need. I also am gravitating toward a weird sense of food entitlement. Now that I'm eating every day, darn it, I DESERVE to eat when I'm hungry. What's up with that?

I am now trying to relax more about it. If I'm slightly hungry (physically) and know it will be a while before I can eat, I have a snack. It's controlled, and keeps me from that ravenous have to eat feeling later. It will be a small, healthy snack, though - not a full meal. It may not even leave me feeling totally satisfied, but just take the edge off. I've decided that's okay for the way I want to live my life. I'm not sure if I'm relaying this the way I want to.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:52 PM   #64
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Dawn, if you are feeling that difficulty too, I feel so much better!

The Ditching Diets book is really, really powerful. I just had to stop in the middle of reading to come post that. I'm recognizing myself and thinking "wow" and "ouch... that's me (wince)" at the same time ... followed by gratitude that I decided to anti-diet so that I could learn some things that could affect far more than my dress size. Anyone else a people-pleaser? Chapter 6. So many insights! Back to reading....

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Old 05-12-2014, 10:17 PM   #65
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Rats....I'm going to have to get that book! It may be next after Intuitive Eating.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:55 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by calichris View Post
The Ditching Diets book is really, really powerful. I just had to stop in the middle of reading to come post that. I'm recognizing myself and thinking "wow" and "ouch... that's me (wince)" at the same time ... followed by gratitude that I decided to anti-diet so that I could learn some things that could affect far more than my dress size. Anyone else a people-pleaser? Chapter 6. So many insights! Back to reading....
Ok, you sold me. Downloading it right away.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:05 AM   #67
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How's it going, Christina?
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:51 PM   #68
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There's been so much learning going on!

The scale continues to be up-ish. It came down a bit yesterday, went back up a bit today, but not up to the recent high. Slightly concerned, but not overly so. Still learning!

Today, I had an egg and spinach wrap (240 calories, I peeked) for breakfast. Then ... someone brought in chocolate croissants at work! They looked amazing. I didn't think about it, just had one, even though I wasn't hungry ...although after I ate it I wasn't overly full, either. I've been doing a lot of work on choosing not to eat when I'm not hungry, so I don't know what that was about, but I like the way Gillian Riley says that if even if you're improving 80% of the time, that's doing well. I learned something else from this experience. I didn't eat again until after 2pm, when my blood sugar crashed, and hard. In between, I felt really good and focused. But at about 2, I started actually getting shaky and dizzy (reactive hypoglycemia). That hasn't happened to me for a long time, but it was a reminder that, hey! You have insulin resistance, remember? It doesn't work for you to eat stuff like that and then not eat for a long time.

Another thing I like about the Gillian Riley book (Ditching Diets), is that she says that while you have the freedom to chose any food you want and to eat as much of it as you want ... that is a choice available to you ... there are effects that result from our choices. So this reminded me what kinds of foods make me feel better than others and are better for my health, and maybe I want to mostly choose those, especially since there's lots of things in that category that I really like.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:06 PM   #69
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I like the 80% of the time calichris, it makes it feel more attainable and not so daunting.

I'm struggling with slowing down while I eat so I can give my satiety signals a chance. Eating is so instinctive, and a lifetime of eating quickly and unmindfully (not a word I know!) is really hard to alter.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:21 PM   #70
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I agree, Katt! The slowing down part is going to involve changing some habits for me, too.

What I'm thinking about today is something by Gillian Riley:
Quote:
  • Choice: The idea that certain foods or certain quantities should be forbidden is the cornerstone of an upset relationship with food, creating feelings of deprivation and obsession, which then lead to rebellious overeating. The solution is in developing a deep freedom of choice, along with learning how to make the choices you really want to live with.
  • Motivation: Whenever you choose to eat something or not, you also choose an outcome depending on the choice you made. Most people think of that outcome in terms of the weight, size, and shape of their body, but if that is all you consider, you can easily ignore far more effective reasons to eat less. More energy, better sleep, or feelings of control are examples of motivation that provides far more powerful feedback because it's direct and more immediate.
  • Desire: Our brains regard manufactured, processed foods as highly rewarding, which is why we have the innate tendency to prioritize them, to prefer them, and to seek them out. When you become more aware of these automatic reactions, you gain the possibility of control over them.
I'm actually glad I had a little stumble today by having the chocolate croissant when I wasn't really hungry. Observing the physical effects was really interesting. I wonder what would happen if I did hunger-directed eating, but tried choosing the things I really like and enjoy that also make me feel good and are lower-glycemic. At the same time, nothing would be off limits, and if I really wanted something sugary or carby, I could make that choice at any time. Another great quote is:
Quote:
You make real progress by re-evaluating your relationship with those foods which are, of course, very likely to be the food you love the most: starchy carbohydrates such as sugar or wheat. It's crucial to do this imperfectly, rather than through complete abstinence, which is unrealistic in the long term.
I kind of think this might be the key for me. I stocked up on some yummy but low glycemic and nutritious stuff, and it doesn't feel diet-y, it feels like a choice I want to make and things I really want to eat. So we'll see ... I'm guessing that if I choose these kinds of foods most of the time, this is going to help with all aspects of HDE for me. If not, I can always go back to having whatever.

Last edited by calichris; 05-14-2014 at 07:23 PM..
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:16 PM   #71
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Be a scientist: Do experiments!

One more!

This is from another book:
Quote:
In the chapter on Stage 2 in Normal Eating for Normal Weight, there’s a section called “Be a Scientist, Do Experiments”. The first experiment is meant to help people start to move off junk-food diets:

If you always eat similar foods, you may not be able to tell how a food makes your body feel because you have nothing to compare it with. Try pasta for dinner one night, then chicken with veggies the next night, and then cake for dinner the next. All three will satisfy hunger, but they have very different effects on your body. Notice how much better you feel when you eat foods that nourish. If you don’t try it, you can’t know.
I'm all about the experiments. I've been accidentally experimenting with this one already!

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Old 05-14-2014, 10:08 PM   #72
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Good info calichris, and I agree with there being something almost desirable in "failing" because it takes you right out of diet mode. There is no "failure" because there is not diet to "cheat" on. I'm not ready for healthy choices. I naturally enjoy many healthy foods and so it's no punishment to eat cabbage or salad or chicken etc. But I'm at the stage where I have to take the restrictions out of my thinking, I have to quit attaching shame and morality to food and body. I can't juggle all that right now. I'm still struggling with being fully present when I eat and eating at a pace that allows me to fully experience my food and my satiety signals. I know I'll eventually get there, but I'm still working on the beginnings. I like what Carolina Coast said about how long it takes for something to become a habit. There were steps that I can't recall right now, but basically it takes like 12-16 weeks. (I'll have to reread what she wrote about that.) I think I need to get to a point closer to that before I'm gonna be able to handle making the kinda choices you're discussing, but I look forward eagerly to seeing how it works for you, and for others who are further along in the process than I am.

It really gives me hope that this is attainable seeing other ahead of me. Everyone is being so generous in being honest about their experiences and struggles. It's so helpful!
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:14 PM   #73
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Christina, your discussing how different foods make you feel has me remembering something that I somehow have lost sight of during the past few months of struggling. Carby, sugary foods make me feel awful, and that's why for the longest time I had no problem just leaving them behing for the most part. It was an easy choice to eat protein and veggies, because my body feels great when I eat them.

I'm really impressed with all the reading you're doing! Thanks for sharing it with us!
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:37 PM   #74
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Today's, breakfast: plain Fage Greek yogurt (nonfat -- I would have chosen lowfat but they didn't carry it at the store I went to) mixed with a scoop of vanilla protein powder, chopped walnuts, mixed berries, and a sprinkle of GoLean crunch cereal. Lots of protein and vitamins and the tastiest breakfast I've had all week!
result: delicious, feeling good, but a bit hungry and thinking about food again within 2 hours? Decided to wait until my planned lunch time a couple hours later which was fine.

Lunch: a yummy southwest salad recipe I found on pinterest, that has chicken, beans, corn, avocado, lettuce, and a dressing of light sour cream, chilies, cilantro, and spices, some sugar snap peas, and an apple. Feeling much better than yesterday in the afternoon.

Low glycemic foods can be yummy, and it's so interesting to notice how certain foods make you feel in the few hours after you eat them.

p.s. Carol - the second book quote is not one I read (found the quote on a web site), but I'm getting good information about all the books I have read.

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Old 05-17-2014, 10:34 AM   #75
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So often I have thoughts I want to write in here, but I don't have a chance. So it's catch-up Saturday!

I watched a YouTube video by Evelyn Tribole, recommended by my buddy LoCarbGal, and I enjoyed it a lot. I loved when she said nobody knows you better than you do ... no one else knows when you're hungry, what would make you satisfied, your background, your unique body, etc., so no one is the boss of you when it comes to what you eat. So if you are trying to follow a plan designed by someone else, it is very likely not going to be right for YOU. I think all the (conflicting) advice regarding weight loss also has to be sorted through to take what is helpful for me at this moment and leave the rest.

I had a low moment a couple of days ago. I have this college reunion coming up in July, and I've known about it for months. In January, I started a new campaign with JUDDD, because I wanted to start losing again in general after about 4 months and also with the reunion in mind. I also participated in a fitness challenge and really went all out on the exercise. For those who don't know me from the JUDDD boards, for two months, I fasted (500-700 calories every other day) and exercised my heart out, and although I did this imperfectly, it should definitely have resulted in a loss. Instead, I gained muscle but did NOT lose fat. I know this because I did body fat testing in January and March. I was severely disappointed, because I had been working SO HARD. I took a break, tried what I thought was a small daily deficit (which I now know from RMR testing was a very small deficit), and pretty much maintained. Tried a new version of JUDDD which was going OK, but after only two weeks I went off the rails. My mind and/or body was just not getting with the program!

During this time I also had my resting metabolic rate tested, and the results were interesting ... at 200-ish pounds, as someone who does weight lifting and has 128 pounds of lean body mass per body fat testing, my RMR is only 1483. 9% slower than average.

I talked with the Health Educator through my health plan on the phone the other day, and I asked her about my test results, doing intuitive eating, and coming off of fasting and questions like that. She does believe in starvation mode or metabolic adaptation, and she thinks I was in it, and she thinks consistent calories will help me with this, and it might take a few weeks for my body to adjust. When I asked her what calorie rate she would recommend if I were to count calories again (not that I'm planning on it), she said 1300 a day. And that is with exercising! So low!

I briefly considered it, but I read an interesting article "Do You Have a Slow Metabolism" -- I think I can link to it because there are no ads -- it is one of the many sources urging people NOT to go under your RMR. I wouldn't think you'd need to ... if you ate the calories of your RMR, you'd be in a deficit because anything you do during the day would add to your calorie burn. My estimated burn is 1927, without any additional exercise.

So back to my low day ... the reunion with my thin and beautiful college friends is coming up, and the last time we got together I was self-conscious about my weight, although I still had a great time. There was one awkward (for me) moment when someone commented on how little everyone had changed since college, and here I was maybe almost 100 pounds heavier. So in January, I thought ... I can get 30 pounds off by the reunion, easy! But not easy. So now that the reunion is only two months away, I keep thinking about going on a quick weight loss diet, and then talking myself out of it. I went shopping the other day, and didn't really find anything, and the three way mirrors showed that yes, I've come a long way, but I've still got a long way to go. I look a lot better in clothes than I used to, but there are still a lot of things I'd love to wear that don't look good yet, and I'm still in an awkward size at the top of the regular sizes where there isn't a huge selection. I was feeling just kind of down. I missed the feeling of accomplishment when I was losing weight, and I feel like I just don't know how to do that right now. The fact that my weight had gone up a couple pounds on IE wasn't helping.

However, when it comes to the reunion, what I think needs changing is my thinking. First of all, I'm already a lot smaller than the last time they saw me, and weight lifting has make a lot of nice changes in my shape as well. But more than that, they are still going to be happy to see me no matter what my size. I need to stop being so critical of myself and try not to be unhappy that I am not a size 8 right now. I'm not going to lie, I would love to get there, but even more I want to not obsess about food, or calories, or any of that, and focus on feeling good and healthy and being kind to my body and myself. You know? I'd like to be smaller, but I wan't to appreciate the now ... how far I've come, all the healthy habits I've picked up, and who I am beyond just my size and shape.

So, if you're like me, you're interested in IE and the scale. I've heard it is normal to go up a bit at first. Many people don't weigh, but I wanted to know what was happening. So here are my daily weigh-ins:
5/4 203.2
5/5 204.4
5/6 203.2
5/7 202.8
5/8 203.4
5/9 204.6
5/10 204.6
5/11 205.6 (this was during an HDE "falling" period including a wine-tasting extravaganza)
5/12 205.4
5/13 204.6
5/14 205.2
5/15 DNW or forgot to record. Started making nutritious choices, but still things I love
5/16 205.0
5/17 203.8

I know a lot of people think it's wise to put the scale away, and I can understand that, but I'm really interested in the process. Yes, I feel momentarily scared when the scale goes up, but mostly I'm just observing. I can put the scale away or do something differently at any time.

I've noticed that since trying to go with the "mostly nutritious food I love" that it has been a lot easier to stay in my hunger cues.

Yesterday's menu:

8:30 Fage plain Greek yogurt with protein powder, a sprinkle of walnuts, Kashi Go Lean Crunch cereal, and fruit. Again, this breakfast was delicious and made me feel great, but didn't hold me that long. I'm going to experiment with other breakfasts.
11:30 Quest bar (hungry plus about to go into 3 hours before I would be able to have lunch)
2:00 southwest chicken salad and an apple.
4:00 Quest bar
6:30 3 pieces of beer battered cod, sugar snap peas, apple, a few peppermint patty minis. Kind of felt like eating more, but had enough, so chewed some gum instead.
A bit hungry at 10, but decided not to snack.

I'm noticing some things: so far, I feel better physically and do better at hunger directed eating when I work from a base of whole and low-glycemic stuff (big surprise ). I also seem to do better at work when I eat smaller meals or snacks every few hours, and eat breakfast whether I'm growling hungry or not.

The day before, I had the same breakfast and lunch and one quest bar snack, then at about 5pm had about half of an order of fries and a few sips of milkshake from In N Out (shared with my son), then an hour later a frozen yogurt cone, then at 10pm a smallish tomato/fresh mozzarella salad, some squash, some sugar snap peas, and a quest bar. So I'm still having stuff like fries when I feel like it, but having a lower glycemic base is really helping.

That's probably enough of a novel for now. Have a great day!

Last edited by calichris; 05-17-2014 at 10:47 AM..
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Old 05-17-2014, 05:33 PM   #76
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a p.s. to the above ... I'm wondering why that the health educator thought that fasting every other day and doing maintenance calories every other day (JUDDD) would put me in starvation mode but 1300 cals daily would not. She did say if the 1300 calories didn't work, go up not down, so there's something. Just a side thought, not doing that!

Today, Saturday, I felt great not eating breakfast until 3 hours after I got up. It was just 3 eggs scambled in butter, but it seemed to last longer than the yogurt, or maybe it was because I wasn't at work. I'll try it on a work day sometime. Post-workout snack was lemon greek yogurt with vanilla protein powder mixed in and frozen cherries (yum). Linner (late lunch ) was 2 pieces of beer battered cod, broccoli, and a handful of cherries.

I'm nearly done with phase 1 of the New Rules of Lifting for Women weight lifting program. I've finished the 8 "A" workouts and 8 "B" workouts, and I'm doing a special phase graduating workout in which you do AMRAP (as many repetitions as possible) using the weight level you did on the first day. I did 66 squats! I realized I've increased my barbell squat weight by 25 pounds in the last six weeks, and my initial weights for all the exercises feel pretty light now. I also started out struggling to do pushups at a 30 degree angle, and I finished by being able to do two sets of ten on the floor. It's hard, but I can do it. It was rewarding to see the growth in the past six weeks. After my AMRAP of the B workout, I'm supposed to take a week off before I start the next phase, so I'll probably use that time to go to some classes or something.

There's this one exercise that is lunges with handweights. Those were my least favorite at first (ouch), but finally by the end they were fine. I worked up to doing them with a 20 pound weight in each hand, and it was interesting to feel those 40 pounds just walking around. I thought about the 70 additional pounds I used to carry around with me. I wonder what it would feel like to strap that on now, like they do in The Biggest Loser sometimes, and see what it feels like. And then I wonder what it would feel like to be 50-70 pounds less than I am now? Maybe I'll get to find out. I feel like I'm heading in a good direction right now no matter what the scale says.

Last edited by calichris; 05-17-2014 at 05:38 PM..
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Old 05-17-2014, 07:26 PM   #77
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It's so interesting to read about your experiences Chris. I find for myself that if I exercise strenuously, esp doing heavy weight lifting, my weight loss screeches to a halt. I don't know why and I find it so frustrating. I experience my best weight loss with light exercise. I'm a naturally muscular woman anyway, but I'm not gonna frustrate myself further with heavy duty exercise on top of my other struggles. Obviously I'm just speaking for myself, because like you said earlier, we're all so different and one set of rules or circumstances might work for you, but not for me, etc.

Even though I don't lose weight while lifting, I do look better and more toned at whatever weight I am lifting, so I've decided that if I ever get to or near a weight I want to be, then I'll start lifting.
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Old 05-18-2014, 06:17 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by calichris View Post


I'm noticing some things: so far, I feel better physically and do better at hunger directed eating when I work from a base of whole and low-glycemic stuff (big surprise ). I also seem to do better at work when I eat smaller meals or snacks every few hours, and eat breakfast whether I'm growling hungry or not.

The day before, I had the same breakfast and lunch and one quest bar snack, then at about 5pm had about half of an order of fries and a few sips of milkshake from In N Out (shared with my son), then an hour later a frozen yogurt cone, then at 10pm a smallish tomato/fresh mozzarella salad, some squash, some sugar snap peas, and a quest bar. So I'm still having stuff like fries when I feel like it, but having a lower glycemic base is really helping.

That's probably enough of a novel for now. Have a great day!
Christina, don't worry about the reunion. I didn't go to my 20 year reunion a couple of summers ago because I was fat. I regret it. I think you're probably the only one who will even be thinking about your weight. I wish I could have convinced myself of the same, but I didn't.

I'm also noticing I tend to do better if I have several small meals or snacks throughout the day. This is weird for me because I tried in the past to do the structured "3 meals, 3 snacks at set periods" type of diets and always failed miserably. Perhaps because it was on a time table? I do perfectly well with it if I'm actually eating when hungry. Though I'm still working on NOT eating when NOT hungry! Ugh.
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Old 05-18-2014, 07:59 AM   #79
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Just found your journal Chris, I am struggling with this and want to find all the inspiration I can. Well done on your efforts and success so far will be following with interest.
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Old 05-18-2014, 09:38 AM   #80
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It's so interesting to read about your experiences Chris. I find for myself that if I exercise strenuously, esp doing heavy weight lifting, my weight loss screeches to a halt. I don't know why and I find it so frustrating. I experience my best weight loss with light exercise. I'm a naturally muscular woman anyway, but I'm not gonna frustrate myself further with heavy duty exercise on top of my other struggles. Obviously I'm just speaking for myself, because like you said earlier, we're all so different and one set of rules or circumstances might work for you, but not for me, etc.

Even though I don't lose weight while lifting, I do look better and more toned at whatever weight I am lifting, so I've decided that if I ever get to or near a weight I want to be, then I'll start lifting.
I have the same experience Katt, and I've seen so many people experience it too on the JUDDD boards! Whenever I start exercising a lot more, especially if I cut calories at the same time, I stall out. I think my body freaks out a little when I do that, so I've cut back from what I was doing Jan-March. I've read that the body responds better to either: eat less/exercise less; eat more/exercise more; or a very moderate calorie cut and moderate exercise. I'm now going for the last option .... not doing as much cardio anymore, weight lifting twice a week, intervals for 15 minutes once or twice a week, and walking, and I have rest days too.

Even though I know weight lifting complicates things, my idea with doing it is so I won't lose as much muscle with the fat and lower my metabolism even more. Of course, if I'm not losing, this is not an issue. And if I never figure out how to lose while lifting, maybe I'd think about scaling back. I'm hoping to figure it out, though.

I started IE about 2 weeks ago at 203.2, maintained, went up, then started coming back down, and today I was 202.6, so I'm hoping to start seeing an overall downward trend? fingers crossed.
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Old 05-18-2014, 09:54 AM   #81
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Christina, don't worry about the reunion. I didn't go to my 20 year reunion a couple of summers ago because I was fat. I regret it. I think you're probably the only one who will even be thinking about your weight. I wish I could have convinced myself of the same, but I didn't.

I'm also noticing I tend to do better if I have several small meals or snacks throughout the day. This is weird for me because I tried in the past to do the structured "3 meals, 3 snacks at set periods" type of diets and always failed miserably. Perhaps because it was on a time table? I do perfectly well with it if I'm actually eating when hungry. Though I'm still working on NOT eating when NOT hungry! Ugh.
I'll definitely go to the reunion, and I'm actually at least 50-60 pounds lighter than the last time they saw me 5 years ago, so there's that.

So you do better with the smaller, more frequent meals too? A lot of people recommend it, but I never tried it on purpose. Getting hungry but not AS hungry is helpful for me in listening to hunger cues.

In the IE book, they talk about how you won't always eat to hunger cues -- just real life -- and that's actually a good thing if it doesn't happen too often, because it makes it one less rule. I see what you mean about the dinner, though. I feel like I need to consider the day too - what am I doing next? when is the next meal?

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Just found your journal Chris, I am struggling with this and want to find all the inspiration I can. Well done on your efforts and success so far will be following with interest.
WJS! I am so grateful to not be doing this on my own... isn't it great to be able to be doing this together with this community? Glad you stopped by.

Last edited by calichris; 05-18-2014 at 09:56 AM..
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Old 05-18-2014, 11:38 AM   #82
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WJS! I am so grateful to not be doing this on my own... isn't it great to be able to be doing this together with this community? Glad you stopped by.
Yes, if it wasn't for this community I would have never heard of HDE so I too am very grateful. Very grateful for you in sharing your experience as well.
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Old 05-19-2014, 02:07 AM   #83
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That's interesting Chris, I'm glad I'm not the only one, I always felt like some sort of weirdo that exercising didn't help me lose weight. All the trainers I worked with never really believed me that I was "dieting" while working with them. It was so frustrating on many levels. I felt like I was wasting my time, oddly enough. I think that's the diet mentality-if I'm gonna make all these sacrifices and do this hard work, then the diet gods better bless me with lower numbers on the scale. Isn't it sad that I couldn't be happy about improving my health and let that matter as much as what a stupid little machine told me that I stepped on?
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:44 AM   #84
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I listened to a podcast on Jimmy Moore's "Ask The Low Carb Experts" show with Dr. Stephen Phinney. He cites a study he conducted published in 1988 where they took moderately overweight women and put them in a metabolic ward. The women were put on an 800-calorie very low carbohydrate ketogenic diet, 12 subjects were in the study, half remained sedentary and the other 6 started with 1/2 hour of exercise a day and were moved up to 2 hours a day, meaning they got up to 14 hours a week of exercise. He said he expected to see the weight loss of the exercisers to be greater than the sedentary group.

But the exercise group lost weight at the same rate, actually slightly less, than the sedentary group. When the researchers measured their resting metabolism they found the resting metabolic rates of the exercises went down 15 percent! This was after 4 weeks of this amount of exercise. He also mentions two other studies where the research showed slowed metabolism with exercise as a factor. He said he was shocked.

I found this almost unbelievable. It made me wonder if the body conserves its resting metabolism to fuel the workouts. Very curious...
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:57 AM   #85
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Christina, your post about NROLFW was so exciting! Isn't it amazing looking back and seeing how far you've come? I'm so happy for you! Just think about how your weight hasn't changed, but likely your body composition has. Are you planning on getting tested again any time soon?

My weight loss slows or stops when I'm exercising heavy too. But I'm at the point where I don't care. Well, not exactly true, but logically I know good changes are happening even if the scale refuses to acknowledge it. Stupid scale.

I really, really wish that I had started resistance training much earlier in my weight loss journey, because I feel I probably had a lot more muscle (to carry around my 300+ bod) that I lost during weight loss. If I had just worked to maintain that, I might love my body shape much better right now, even at THIS weight. I just was saying that to a friend of mine who probably could lose 100 pounds or so, and that if/when she's ready to lose, to try hard to maintain her muscle mass even if it slowed down her scale losses. I noticed her eyes kind of glazed over at that point. I get it. I would have done the same thing at that point (and did). But I really do regret it now.

CC, that statistic is ALARMING! I hope we're all trying hard to feed our bodies enough to maintain and even - dare I say - increase our metabolisms.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:23 PM   #86
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Wow, thanks for that CC. I'd never heard that before.

I found this:
At least four clinical trials have demonstrated that exercise tends to suppress resting metabolic rate. In all four studies overweight participants who engaged in 300-600 calories worth of daily exercise experienced a significant drop in resting metabolism. According to Drs. Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney, “Although genetically lean people as a group may respond differently, when overweight humans do more than one hour of endurance exercise daily, resting metabolism on average declines between 5% and 15%.”
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Old 05-19-2014, 07:30 PM   #87
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Oops, I tried to link to the podcast above, but it didn't get past moderators so it must not have not been an OK site per LCF policies .... anyway, they recommended shorter exercise periods and taking days off, which is mostly what I do now, so hopefully I'm OK at this point. I don't think walking for an hour counts, do you think? I wouldn't classify it as endurance. The people in the studies were doing ketogenic and also low cal diets at the same time (800 cals/day in one study), so maybe the combo of the low cals and long endurance caused the RMR drop? It kind of makes sense that if the body can reduce RMR in response to a very low cal diet it could also do it for very high calorie burn. And the combo does not seem to be good. Hmmm.

In the area of eating, it seems like something is changing. Yesterday, I had a smallish breakfast around 10:30, and after an hour walk, I had a sandwich and 1/3 piece of cheesecake at 2. (It was interesting to notice that I really wanted to share the piece because I only really wanted a taste,and I wanted the smallest third.... contrast that with glaring at someone who wanted to share my 100 cal bag of popcorn!!) Later that afternoon, I was making two cakes for work and dinner at the same time. I had a pint of rich, dark beer beer while cooking and the appetizer/side salad, and I was DONE. I had no appetite for the main part of the dinner, so that's all I had! (other than tastes of batter for quality control purposes That is not me. I wonder if the beer filled me up? weird.

Then today, I ran out of time so I got a latte for breakfast. I knew I wanted to try the cakes, so I has a couple bites of each mid-morning. It was a very small amount, and I didn't have a crash after. By lunch, I was not interested. I knew I was going into a meeting and wouldn't be able to eat for 3 hours, but I felt like I'd rather be hungry then than eat right then (who is this person?). I had maybe one, minor hunger pang that afternoon but really nothing much. I didn't get out from the meeting until 4:30, so I decided to wait for dinner and had a steak burrito and an ice cream bar. I think I'm done for the day. I wonder if eating less is making me less hungry? I don't know .... we'll see if it continues .... I hope so because I am exercising zero willpower whatsoever in stopping eating.

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Old 05-19-2014, 07:36 PM   #88
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It seems as if you are really doing quite nicely with this way of eating. Isn't it great?
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:32 AM   #89
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You're doing great, and really seem to be learning and honoring your hunger. WTG!

BTW, rich dark beer fills me up. I vaguely remember a time when I would be stuffed by a cocktail and appetizer and not want my actual dinner. I hope to be back there some day.
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:17 AM   #90
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Then today, I ran out of time so I got a latte for breakfast. I knew I wanted to try the cakes, so I has a couple bites of each mid-morning. It was a very small amount, and I didn't have a crash after. By lunch, I was not interested. I knew I was going into a meeting and wouldn't be able to eat for 3 hours, but I felt like I'd rather be hungry then than eat right then (who is this person?). I had maybe one, minor hunger pang that afternoon but really nothing much. I didn't get out from the meeting until 4:30, so I decided to wait for dinner and had a steak burrito and an ice cream bar. I think I'm done for the day. I wonder if eating less is making me less hungry? I don't know .... we'll see if it continues .... I hope so because I am exercising zero willpower whatsoever in stopping eating.
This is amazing! It sounds like you don't NEED to exercise any willpower, because it's happening naturally.
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