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Old 05-06-2014, 08:26 AM   #421
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:28 AM   #422
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:53 AM   #423
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Interesting and I agree with Green, magical discussion. I guess I've got some reading to do!

I can definitely tell when the taste changes and I'm not full but satisfied. But it ends there, because I so often feel out of control to just stop. Easier when I'm eating alone or just with my DH. However, we eat out and with others several nights a week.

My only "trick" for this is to eat half whatever I decide a portion is, and then wait to eat the other half. I often don't come back for it, but often I stop before I want to.

I have no idea if this is a good idea or not. It's kind of an attempt at IE without scaring myself with the whole "unlimited" idea.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:59 AM   #424
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Are We Hungry Yet?

Eating has been my major form of recreation for some time now. My husband and I love to eat out, I meet my friends for lunch, I go by myself out to lunch, I snack, I write about it, I think about it, and I stress about it. (Well... until recently. With HDE the stress part is changing.)

But if you only eat when you're hungry it leaves a lot of free time, especially for me. Maybe it's my age, or my muscle mass, or my metabolism, or the fact that my body doesn't need the energy, but I don't get hungry very often and it doesn't take much to satisfy me. This leaves me waiting a long time for my next appetite to come along, and I feel like a little kid on a road trip, "Are we hungry yet? When are we going to get hungry? How much longer before we're hungry?"

I've been wondering what I can do to get to eat more often. (Eating without being hungry isn't an option anymore.)

Today I was at lunch and I ordered black bean and corn salsa, a pumpernickle roll with butter, and carrot cake. Usually she brings out the cake right away, but she got distracted today and brought out the other food first. The last time I ordered this meal I ate all of the salsa and roll and then had some cake. This time I took a few bites of the bread and salsa and immediately knew this was going to be one of those tiny little apetites. So I ask her to please bring the cake, and I abandoned the rest of the meal. I wanted to get to enjoy it. I ate the icing and some of the cake before I was satisfied, then I boxed the bread and salsa and brought it home.

My strategy was that I might get an appetite sooner and I would get to enjoy a snack this afternoon before dinner, but it looks like that's unlikely to happen today as I'm still satisfied from lunch. Oh well, I'll just wait and I guess I'll get an appetite eventually...
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Old 05-06-2014, 01:35 PM   #425
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Eating has been my major form of recreation for some time now. My husband and I love to eat out, I meet my friends for lunch, I go by myself out to lunch, I snack, I write about it, I think about it, and I stress about it. (Well... until recently. With HDE the stress part is changing.)

But if you only eat when you're hungry it leaves a lot of free time, especially for me. Maybe it's my age, or my muscle mass, or my metabolism, or the fact that my body doesn't need the energy, but I don't get hungry very often and it doesn't take much to satisfy me. This leaves me waiting a long time for my next appetite to come along, and I feel like a little kid on a road trip, "Are we hungry yet? When are we going to get hungry? How much longer before we're hungry?"

I've been wondering what I can do to get to eat more often. (Eating without being hungry isn't an option anymore.)

Today I was at lunch and I ordered black bean and corn salsa, a pumpernickle roll with butter, and carrot cake. Usually she brings out the cake right away, but she got distracted today and brought out the other food first. The last time I ordered this meal I ate all of the salsa and roll and then had some cake. This time I took a few bites of the bread and salsa and immediately knew this was going to be one of those tiny little apetites. So I ask her to please bring the cake, and I abandoned the rest of the meal. I wanted to get to enjoy it. I ate the icing and some of the cake before I was satisfied, then I boxed the bread and salsa and brought it home.

My strategy was that I might get an appetite sooner and I would get to enjoy a snack this afternoon before dinner, but it looks like that's unlikely to happen today as I'm still satisfied from lunch. Oh well, I'll just wait and I guess I'll get an appetite eventually...
I’ve been following you all for the last week or so since I’ve been trying IE. I really want to make this work. You all have such great insights and suggestions.

I find so much common ground here, especially with this post. I find myself holding off eating just because I know something I want more is coming up and I want to be hungry. And if I’m not, dang I guess I’ll have to wait ‘tll tomorrow.
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:22 PM   #426
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CC - I just think it's amazing that you can stop yourself at just a few bites of food/dessert. Does Josie address what you are feeling in her book?

Terri -

I just wanted to share a conversation I just had with my son (the only IE/HDE in our family). This morning I packed him lunch as I always do but I asked him if he wanted watermelon instead of the apple I typically pack or both. He wanted both. So his lunch consisted of a turkey, cheese, and mustard sandwich, a cheese stick, a bag of Cheese-Its, a drink, a container of watermelon, a sliced apple, and two bags of fruit snacks. He's 15 btw, and a growing boy

When I picked him up from school I asked how his day was, how his lunch was, etc. I asked if he finished his lunch and he said everything but the Cheese-Its and fruit snacks - I told him how much I envy his natural IE and how I'm still a wannabe. I told him I would have started with the cheese-its, then the cheese stick, apple, watermelon, sandwich, and then fruit snacks - in that order. Hmmmm, looks like mom has a lot to learn from her boy
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:30 PM   #427
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Old 05-06-2014, 03:08 PM   #428
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...Does Josie address what you are feeling in her book?

...I told him I would have started with the cheese-its, then the cheese stick, apple, watermelon, sandwich, and then fruit snacks - in that order. Hmmmm, looks like mom has a lot to learn from her boy
The only thing I can think of in the book discusses metabolism. She says a slow metabolism will causes you to get hungry less frequently. Nothing about missing the pleasure of eating. She says think how much money you will be saving on food that you can now spend on shoes.

I like your order for the lunch. That sounds like me. After you've done this awhile, though, you may find yourself stopping much sooner than you'd expect.
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Old 05-06-2014, 04:34 PM   #429
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She says think how much money you will be saving on food that you can now spend on shoes.
Move over Imelda Marcos
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Old 05-06-2014, 04:41 PM   #430
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... She says think how much money you will be saving on food that you can now spend on shoes.
That is seriously quite motivating!
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:15 PM   #431
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CC, I love that you give yourself permission to have your cake first! I'm not there yet, but will get there! I have some M&Ms that have been calling my name, so maybe tomorrow (today is a DD!). I'm gently moving into having good DDs and then doing HDE/IE on UDs, which I guess maybe I should call HDE/IE days now.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:38 AM   #432
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My best thing I learned is that hunger is NOT an emergency. I never knew that before. Now I have learned to almost enjoy hunger because I can recognize true hunger now.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:40 AM   #433
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I'm gently moving into having good DDs and then doing HDE/IE on UDs, which I guess maybe I should call HDE/IE days now.
That strategy worked for Joanna, and she lost weight at lightening speed. Her example is what interested me in this whole thing anyway. I think she still rotates.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:19 AM   #434
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I was dying for carrot cake last night, and I blame this journal! I had one small piece and felt great! It was just what I wanted and I didn't end up with several pieces.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:21 AM   #435
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I'd like to talk about "failure" again.
I see others' posts, saying this didn't work, I can't do carbs, it just turned into a food fest, etc., all the stuff I said over and over.
I know, each to her own, but I so want to encourage freedom for anybody that's close.
I had what might look like a falling, ugly baby day yesterday, and I have SO GOT that there is no real failure anymore!
To preface the yesterday story, I'm reading Creativity, Inc., by the former(?)/current(?) president of Pixar. He talks about failure being an ESSENTIAL component of each of their movies in development. If there is no failure, he says, there has been no growth and no creativity. If there has been no failure, they know that the movie is being created in an environment of control and fear, which results in a bad product every single time.

Man, this hit home. Dieting has been control and fear for me. Sometimes a successful feeling, but never an expansive, creative, joyful thing.

Okay. Yesterday I was in a playwrights' masterclass with an exceptionally fine playwright as teacher and a room full of very talented writers.
We ended up reading and assessing my new stuff, which is pretty much like having to sing and dance naked in front of god and Brad Pitt.

I just go into shock in these scenarios. I power through it and shake for twenty minutes afterward.
And then I react.
So. Yesterday's diet? Some salted raisins picked out of trail mix, and three huge apple fritter doughnuts over the day. I wasn't hungry once.
It was insane. Falling, falling baby.

Here's what's different this time.

I ate the last doughnut at maybe 3:30 pm. In my old life, jeez, I'd have jumped overboard and gone on eating everything, thinking WTH, I've failed. (I did think about CC's pact to never overeat again. I'm not ready for that pact.)

Afterwards, without having to wrestle with it at all, with no self talk, I felt FINE.
I was up until 1am and had a bizillion opportunities to eat more crap. And I wasn't hungry. So I didn't eat.
Somehow, my instincts just kicked back in. I didn't feel guilty, or worried, or even physically uncomfortable.
All I felt was excited about feeling hungry today.
And my pants are getting looser all the time.

My new motto is fail, but fail forward.
I can't tell you how fantastic it feels to be off the guilt/shame/fear/control ride. My guess is that it just gets better and better from here.
Hope everybody has a great day.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:24 AM   #436
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I was dying for carrot cake last night, and I blame this journal! I had one small piece and felt great! It was just what I wanted and I didn't end up with several pieces.


Just read about this in your journal and was wondering if I bear some responsibility.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:30 AM   #437
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"Fall forward..." I like that!

Hey, about that pact... Did I really say that? I blame Ben & Jerry!
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:45 AM   #438
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I'd like to talk about "failure" again.
I see others' posts, saying this didn't work, I can't do carbs, it just turned into a food fest, etc., all the stuff I said over and over.
I know, each to her own, but I so want to encourage freedom for anybody that's close.
I had what might look like a falling, ugly baby day yesterday, and I have SO GOT that there is no real failure anymore!
To preface the yesterday story, I'm reading Creativity, Inc., by the former(?)/current(?) president of Pixar. He talks about failure being an ESSENTIAL component of each of their movies in development. If there is no failure, he says, there has been no growth and no creativity. If there has been no failure, they know that the movie is being created in an environment of control and fear, which results in a bad product every single time.

Man, this hit home. Dieting has been control and fear for me. Sometimes a successful feeling, but never an expansive, creative, joyful thing.

Okay. Yesterday I was in a playwrights' masterclass with an exceptionally fine playwright as teacher and a room full of very talented writers.
We ended up reading and assessing my new stuff, which is pretty much like having to sing and dance naked in front of god and Brad Pitt.

I just go into shock in these scenarios. I power through it and shake for twenty minutes afterward.
And then I react.
So. Yesterday's diet? Some salted raisins picked out of trail mix, and three huge apple fritter doughnuts over the day. I wasn't hungry once.
It was insane. Falling, falling baby.

Here's what's different this time.

I ate the last doughnut at maybe 3:30 pm. In my old life, jeez, I'd have jumped overboard and gone on eating everything, thinking WTH, I've failed. (I did think about CC's pact to never overeat again. I'm not ready for that pact.)

Afterwards, without having to wrestle with it at all, with no self talk, I felt FINE.
I was up until 1am and had a bizillion opportunities to eat more crap. And I wasn't hungry. So I didn't eat.
Somehow, my instincts just kicked back in. I didn't feel guilty, or worried, or even physically uncomfortable.
All I felt was excited about feeling hungry today.
And my pants are getting looser all the time.

My new motto is fail, but fail forward.
I can't tell you how fantastic it feels to be off the guilt/shame/fear/control ride. My guess is that it just gets better and better from here.
Hope everybody has a great day.
Very inspiring Kristin! I think you're right. Success is how you use the failures.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:53 AM   #439
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Kristin

I loved every single sentence, like talking to myself!

Okay. Yesterday I was in a playwrights' masterclass with an exceptionally fine playwright as teacher and a room full of very talented writers.
We ended up reading and assessing my new stuff, which is pretty much like having to sing and dance naked in front of god and Brad Pitt.


And this was hilarious!
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:28 AM   #440
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Kristin, that is a great anecdote! Eating any one (or three) thing is never a fail, especially if we don't go crazy afterwards because of it! That situation sounds so scary, it made me a little queasy just reading about it. I could never, ever do reviews like that. Askeered! You go girl!
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:44 AM   #441
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A post from my journal this morning:

I had another interesting epiphany this morning (probably while smoking)

I never, ever gain weight on vacation. Sometimes I may lose a few pounds. Thinking about that this morning, I realized that I always give myself permission to eat what I want on vacation. No diet, no restrictions. Connecting this to HDE is why I think this way of eating appeals to me so much. Given cart blanche on vacation I don't have food angst. I don't fret about my Aunt's biscuits and chocolate gravy...or my other Aunt's pulled pork BBQ sandwiches. I eat the pot roast and mashed potatoes. Guilt free. I always have dessert. I always have bread, with butter. I don't think about it at all. I'm happy and contented on vacation. This is the kind of thing I want have in my every day life.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:46 AM   #442
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Yes! It's like living a vacation!
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:27 AM   #443
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A post from my journal this morning:

I had another interesting epiphany this morning (probably while smoking)

I never, ever gain weight on vacation. Sometimes I may lose a few pounds. Thinking about that this morning, I realized that I always give myself permission to eat what I want on vacation. No diet, no restrictions. Connecting this to HDE is why I think this way of eating appeals to me so much. Given cart blanche on vacation I don't have food angst. I don't fret about my Aunt's biscuits and chocolate gravy...or my other Aunt's pulled pork BBQ sandwiches. I eat the pot roast and mashed potatoes. Guilt free. I always have dessert. I always have bread, with butter. I don't think about it at all. I'm happy and contented on vacation. This is the kind of thing I want have in my every day life.
Blonde, I love this.
Midday, here. Not hungry yet, but have happily shopped for ingredients for a new pasta dish, lemon square things, and cookies. Also bought cheesies.
This makes it sound as though all I eat is junk, but no.
I'm totally infatuated right now with eggs over steamed broccoli and a wonderful lemon-asiago dressing. This is the first thing I want every day when I'm hungry.


CC asked the other day whether I might have allowed restrictive thoughts back in in response to some stress. I had, so I am very, very careful now to keep the house stocked with every single thing that sounds delicious.
In truth, except for crazy days like yesterday, I probably eat one wee sweet thing per day.
I'm not sure I trusted Spinardi when she said my taste would gravitate toward healthy things. And I ate almost nothing but Kraft dinner for the first two or three weeks. But here I am, loving broccoli.
. I hope I never take this miracle for granted.
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:18 AM   #444
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I'm not sure I trusted Spinardi when she said my taste would gravitate toward healthy things.
I still have doubts about this one for me. Although I enjoy things like black bean and corn salsa, sauted chicken, broccoli, fresh tomatoes, and salmon, I really enjoy treats, too. I think in the long run I'll do fine nutritionally, but don't expect to ever be a model of strictly "healthy" eating as the diet gurus would suggest. One thing I know is helping my body is that the binges are quiet for now. That probably taxed my system more than anything else. The treats I have now are a drop in the bucket in comparison.
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:24 AM   #445
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I still have doubts about this one for me. Although I enjoy things like black bean and corn salsa, sauted chicken, broccoli, fresh tomatoes, and salmon, I really enjoy treats, too. I think in the long run I'll do fine nutritionally, but don't expect to ever be a model of strictly "healthy" eating as the diet gurus would suggest. One thing I know is helping my body is that the binges are quiet for now. That probably taxed my system more than anything else. The treats I have now are a drop in the bucket in comparison.
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:04 AM   #446
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I was dying for carrot cake last night, and I blame this journal! I had one small piece and felt great! It was just what I wanted and I didn't end up with several pieces.
I really had to laugh at that! I was in Costco yesterday and eyed the carrot cake cupcakes. I thought about your posts about them. There were 6 and I really only wanted a bite, so left them.

Joy Joy, your writing is brilliant. I love the way you express things.

Carolina Coast, I am so glad you started this thread. It has given me a lot to think about. I still have a few pounds I would like to lose for a cushion. I'm hoping this will work and not think about everything I put in my mouth. Thank You!
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:07 AM   #447
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So glad you're here, Seabreezes! I'm thrilled it resonates with you.
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:29 AM   #448
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Kristen,

First
Second: I graduated from a creative writing program, so I know the situation you are describing well. For anyone who's not used to it, it's a major stressor, so I'm as impressed with that as I am with the intuitive eating. Okay, I'm more impressed with the eating thing.

Thank you!
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:22 PM   #449
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Hi CarolinaCoast, thank you so much for starting this journal and letting everyone interested in pursuing IE use it. I would like to join the discussion too, if I may.

I've been reading this journal and other sources of info, including Spinelli's book, and I've just now come to the end of the journal. I didn't want to comment before I read the whole thing, but there have been so many insightful comments that I've copied them in my journal and commented on the epiphanies they've given me. I won't take up a lot of space here rewriting them, but I've quoted many of you here other than CC, so please feel free to look in my journal if you're curious about what I wrote about what you said.

I detailed in my journal how I came to this place. I didn't start out looking for IE, I was in raw desperation to find SOMETHING that would work after all my failures. I was in pain from some horrible things that happened-again really long story already filled a lot of pages with that, and had been eating like there was no tomorrow and getting very frightened about the lack of control and horrid weight gain. I can't even describe, although I know most of you probably understand it, the hopelessness I felt. It felt pointless to even try again after years and years of innumerable failed attempts. I couldn't find the heart to try yet again at something that I had come to believe was impossible.

I've actually been acquainted with IE before, I'd read many of Geneen Roth's books, but it never truly clicked with me. I thought I was doing IE, but I always did it in conjunction with a diet. I believed that REAL weight loss could only happen with a diet, that really surrendering to the process of IE would only be useful for maintenance. I reasoned that I wanted to achieve IE and that learning it while I was dieting would make maintenance easier, and that it would help me learn to be in control while I was dieting.

I feel like the scales have fallen from my eyes and I had to hit rock bottom for it to happen. In my journal I explored how I think this was necessary for me to be able to let go of all my programming or indoctrination or whatever it is that made me believe so completely and all consumingly that dieting was the key to success. Not just in losing weight, but in proving my worthiness as a human being. Conquering this, gaining supreme control of myself, my feelings, my very biological need to feed, was the pathway to Nirvana and Righteousness. How screwed up is that?

Anyway, I stumbled upon this place and I guess I was ready. Ready to really try it the right way. I've been IE/HDE for 5 days now and I already feel such peace and freedom. I've decided absolutely with full conviction that I will never diet again. Now that I know the truth, I can never go back. I am living proof that diets don't work. I'm fatter than I've ever been after decades of dieting, so how crazy is it to keep trying to do something that's giving me the opposite results of what I'm trying to achieve?

I've made peace with the fact that the worst thing that could happen doing this is that I might lose just a little weight and then maintain. I figure even that worst case scenario is a vast improvement over how I've been living my life thus far.

And I think it will be better than that. Seeing other people go through this and do so well gives me hope. So thank you again CarolinaCoast for starting this here. Thanks for being at the right place and right time for when I desperately needed the answer, and being so generous to share this place with others. Joyjoy, ouizoid, and everyone else who have been contributing have said things that gave me such insight and helped me direct my own process. What a blessing to finally be free and start a journey that I know will still be really hard, but I won't be Sisyphus trying to push that stupid boulder up the mountain of futility any more.
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my journal is http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/we...e-excrite.html

"The chief cause of unhappiness and failure is trading what we want most for what we want at the moment."

"Our perception gathers proof that our beliefs are right."
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:05 PM   #450
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Wow, Kattbelly! So many of us have so much pain from this. Thank you for sharing your story. I look forward to following your journal.
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