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Old 08-11-2013, 10:25 AM   #1
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Jacq's JUDDD Journal

Stats:

7/14 Start 183.4 / 35 / 38 / 31 (Wt / BFat% / TWater% / TMuscle %)
In pounds that's 64.2 fat / 69.7 water / 56.9 muscle.

Weird. So I must have negative bone mass of 7.8 pounds.

After 4 weeks on JUDDD, am at...

173 / 33.5 / 40.8 / 31.2 #'s and %'s
57.9 fat / 70.6 water / 54 muscle
Bone mass has reduced another 1.7 pounds??

Oh well, moving right along...

I'm at losing 2.9 pounds of muscle. In the beginning, my muscle was even increasing a little bit but then I got lax about getting protein in on DD's. Back to shooting for at least 75 g and preferably 100 g of protein on DD's. Will monitor more closely, start lifting heavier and re-calculate in another 4 weeks.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:47 AM   #2
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Goals for the month of August 2013

Jul 14 - 183
Jul 28 - actual 180.4
Aug 4 - goal 177.2 - actual 177.4 (Sundays)
Aug 11 - goal 175.7 - actual 173.0
Aug 18 - goal 174.1

Going to pump up the fat and volume a bit. Had a bacon + lettuce sandwich for lunch with real mayo. 1/2 c of (very salty) pumpkin seeds ready for a throughout the day snack.

Menu for rest of today:

- pm fruit bowl with watermelon, cherries and blueberries, whey shake and 2 c of snap peas I have to eat up,
- dessert is blueberries with 18% cream and a sprinkle of sugar
- dinner is an appetizer of herb and garlic shrimp, broccoli salad (moderate low fat recipe with mostly high protein yogurt as the base) and beef lo mein (moderate noodles with extra broccoli and beef)
- evening is 2 glasses chardonnay.

Ugh. That's a lot of food. Not sure if I can eat it all but I'll try. Almost 100g of protein for the day.
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:02 PM   #3
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Oops, missed a week:

Jul 14 - 183
Jul 21 - actual 180.4 (-2.6)
Jul 28 - goal 178.8 - actual 178.2 (-2.2)
Aug 4 - goal 177.2 - actual 177.4 (-0.8)
Aug 11 - goal 175.7 - actual 173.0 (-4.4) no reason for this loss??
Aug 18 - goal 174.1
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:53 AM   #4
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Your menu sounds yummy! looks like you are losing nicely!
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:10 AM   #5
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Typical down day menu

Thanks zipp! I couldn't eat all of it, not even close. Oh well. I'd say "maybe tomorrow" but it's actually "day after tomorrow".

I lose very quickly down to 150 and then stall out. Have done this 1/2 dozen times over the last dozen years. I'm trying to take it down more slowly now and then hopefully won't stall out later. Or get diet fatigue - just want a WOE that is long term sustainable and not crash-gain-crash-gain.

Here's the tentative / on hand menu for today - zero hunger so far at 10 a.m. and I don't start eating for the day until I feel some sign of hunger. Seems to come around noon-2 p.m. on a DD (noon on UD's). That's a fairly good fasting window I think?

1/2 french onion laughing cow on a Suzie's thin cake (~30 cal)
tuna salad lettuce wrap made w/FF mayo, pickle & 1/2 can of tuna (~80 cal)
chicken bacon & egg white omelet (~120 cal)
0% greek yogurt mixed w/a few frozen blueberries and a sprinkle of stevia (~130 cal) - like this at night since I get a very full feeling w/greek yogurt, not any other kind.

Any of: cucumbers, salad w/yogurt dressing, beets, tomatoes, broccoli

Mixed a cookies and cream protein shake w/almond milk this morning and am using it for coffee creamer. The protein powder tastes too sweet on its own to me and I still have a huge bag of it left.

All of above is ~ 80 g protein and I'm shooting for a little more. Maybe a roast beef lettuce wrap or another whey shake depending on if I have chewing hunger or not later today. So somewhere around 600 calories +/- which is right where I want to be.

size 32 jeans all fit - but the camel called and said he wants his toe back. Maybe in the next week or two I can wear them out in public.

Moved size 30 jeans into corner of the closet. Shocked that if I laid down on the bed, I could actually get them on. And buttoned! Even more shocked that at almost 48 y.o. I still do stupid things like that.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:58 PM   #6
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Your weight loss is wonderful! Such an inspiration. I am just now getting back on the JUDDD program. Can't wait to see the rest of your progress
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcmb View Post
Your weight loss is wonderful! Such an inspiration. I am just now getting back on the JUDDD program. Can't wait to see the rest of your progress
Thanks so much CMB! I only hope I can keep it up!
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:41 PM   #8
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Note to self on greek yogurt

Greek yogurt = Complete. Appetite. Killer. (For me.)

Today, starting about noon, had:
- B - almond milk (20) + cookies & cream PP (110)
- L - lettuce wrap with tuna + FF mayo (80)
- Mid-day snack - 3 thin cakes (50) w/ 1.5 laughing cow cheese (40)
- D - 2 roast beef lettuce wraps w/scant full fat herb & garlic cream cheese (90?)
- D - salad w/yogurt dressing (Bolthouse Farms chunky blue cheese) (30), cucumbers (?? - I'm NOT going to count cucumbers. I did not get fat by eating too many cucumbers.)
- Evg snack - 0% plain greek yogurt (80) mixed with 0% source dessert yogurt (35) - ugh. Too sweet / chemical tasting - who eats these things??
- few glasses of lemonade made with realemon and sweetener
- stole a few bites of my son's minute steak at dinner - yikes I was under plan - could have stolen more!
- about 5 che-chas
Total somewhere around 600.

Tomorrow (UD), I've got a 9% greek yogurt with honey lined up. I mix 1/2 the single serving with about the same amount of 0% plain greek yogurt to cut the overpowering sweetness. It's about 2/3-3/4 of a cup in total or so. I had the other 1/2 last up day and it killed my appetite for ~ 4 hours. The combo of the two together is somewhere around 200 calories. But I don't count on UD's (and actually don't usually count on DD's either if I stick to low fat, protein and veggies) since I haven't really had to yet. Promised myself I would start if I wasn't losing. I hate counting.

Next down day will experiment by having the greek yogurt for a mid-pm snack since I get a little too hungry right before supper and like to eat with the boys at about 7. But now, 1/2 hour after eating this magical stuff, I'm just way too full. It's a rather unpleasant feeling.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:00 AM   #9
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Diet history #1 - the roaring 20's

If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, then I'm certifiable.

I believe it's important to go back through whatever area you have difficulties with and see what the patterns are that caused the failure.

I grew up on a beef / mixed farm with potatoes and grass fed beef at every meal, overcooked vegetables and dessert about 1/2 the time (canned fruit, fruit pies, stuff like that). None of us were overweight (8 kids) except my father at 220# or so at 5'8". Considering he's 93 y.o. now and doesn't take any medication and only stopped farming in his late 80's I guess he did something right. But we were very active.

Moved away from home at 16 and had unrestricted access to junk food - which I'd never had before. My love affair with potato chips and french fries began then. And going out drinking with friends of course along with stopping at Denny's at 3 a.m. By the time I was ~19 or 20, I had gained about 40-50 pounds and topped the scale at 174.

I went on the Scarsdale Diet and stuck to the plan with insane self-discipline that I can't even fathom having now. I really do hate green beans. But I ate them. I lost 22 pounds in the first 2 weeks of that diet - from 174 to 152. Then you're supposed to take a 2 week break and basically just avoid sugars and too much fat but I was too eager for results and kept on going. Lost 12 pounds my second 2 weeks and was down to 140. I can't recall how long the rest took to come off, but I recall that I got down to 123 within a couple of months. Sure, I felt dizzy when I stood up and all that but I was SKINNY!! Unhealthy as hell I'm sure, but skinny.

I stayed at that weight and started to eat more healthy until I got pregnant with my oldest son at 21. I gained 60 pounds in those 9.5 months (he was 2 weeks overdue) and topped the scales at 182 in May 1988 when he was born. Without my setpoint / cut-off of 125, I didn't seem to know how to be stable. So back on a diet again. I was scheduled to be a bridesmaid at a friend's wedding in early August 1988. Somehow I managed to fit into my dress weighing ~150.

In September, I went back to University still wearing maternity outfits of my dad's shirts and stirrup pants. We were stone broke without enough $ to buy food for both of us, so the little guy got fed and I went to my parents and ate on weekends, brought home leftovers and basically starved the rest of the time. Eventually that fall I stabilized at about 120 pounds or so and could fortunately wear my own non-maternity clothes again.

But a bad lesson was learned - that less (food) was more (weight loss). And that I could and should lose what in hindsight was super crazy fast losses that a contestant on The Biggest Loser would probably love to have. If it wasn't working, I only had to try harder. No rest for the dieting wicked!

From 1988 to 1997, I stayed around 120-127 with a brief dip down to 115 after a bad break-up in 1992 when I started obsessively exercising to get my mind off of things. My period stopped then for a couple of months. Fortunately I had a stressful workplace to go to with lots of OT so no time to exercise (articling student), so I packed those 10 pounds back on effortlessly.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:45 AM   #10
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Diet history #2 - the non-smoking 30's

On May 18, 1997 I quit smoking. In the beginning I actually lost weight as I replaced the mouth hunger with about a 1/2 gallon pail a day of broccoli, carrots and cauliflower. I chewed until my jaws hurt.

Some time that summer I went to Weight Watchers weighing in the mid 130's, completely horrified that I'd gained that much weight. I lost down to 130 or so and figured I could handle the rest on my own (and I hated counting everything and having to have X servings of this and Y servings of that.) By that fall, I'd managed to convince myself that it was ok to eat whatever I wanted since at least I wasn't smoking! I gained another 20 or so pounds and then went on Atkins. It was difficult since I'm not a big meat-lover and there were no real recipe books, resources or forums back then like there are now. I had also been very fat-in-my-food-phobic prior to that and regardless of whether that's "healthy" or not (I believe it depends on the person's individual biology), it did work for me to keep my weight under control.

A couple of months later, I went off Atkins because I felt really horrible on it all the time. Sadly, I had lost the fat-phobia. I stayed around 150 or so until I got pregnant with my youngest in 2000 at 35 y.o. I topped out at 204 with him. We moved to TX and I went on WW weighing ~ 188 in 2003. I lost 20 pounds in 16 weeks on the program exercising an hour a day with too many Frankenfoods, banking my exercise points to pig out at Longhorns every Saturday. If you calculate each point at ~65 calories, and consider that I could inhale 35 points in a single meal there, that's over 3000 calories!

We moved back home in 2003 and I started a lower fat woe doing calorie counting (tried to stay between 1300-1800), joined TOPS, lifted weights, did step aerobics every morning (Buns of steel!), jogged 3-4 times a week and got down under 150 again and was looking pretty good.

Started a stressful job with a ton of OT in 2004 (this is a pattern) and gained 25-30 pounds in about 8 months. I quit the job when my hair started falling out in patches. (Alopecia runs in my family and no way was I going to lose my hair!)

I started another, moderately stressful job in 2005 and decided that I was tired of dieting and would be happily chubby. It sort of worked. Except I don't really like being chubby. And I don't like feeling addicted to potato chips. Or having sizes 4-14 in my closet.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:53 AM   #11
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Diet history #3 - over 40 and wanting to be a grown-up about food

I did ******* in 2007 or so? - lost quickly down to 150ish (some of that was probably hair)-maintained-started stressful job-gained. (I worked contract so high pay but long hours).

I had reached a high weight of 194 when I went to the Bernstein diet clinic in 2008. It was expensive, but I felt I needed the monitoring. I lost about 50 pounds in ~ 5 months and reached a low of 144. But I was squishy.

In '09 or so I tried Herbal Magic - was starting to realize there is no "magic".

In 2011, I followed Lyle Mcdonald's RFL to go from 173.8 to 159.8 over 7 weeks. I liked it because you could have a cheat meal twice a week and am quite sure I didn't lose any muscle at all on it, but it's not a WOE for life - unless you like meat a lot more than I do. I started doing calorie counting again and exercising regularly and stabilized at around 150 but fell off the wagon when I started another stressful contract in 2012. Really, can't think what's wrong with me that I can't work / commute for 70+ hours a week while being a single parent to 2 kids and 2 fur-kids - while trying to renovate a 5 bedroom house and eat / exercise consistently. I suspect that the stress from work causes off the charts cortisol => salt cravings and very poor sleep => being too tired to cook or exercise... Rinse. Repeat.

So here I am today, weighing 174 point-something after losing 10 or so pounds on JUDDD (was a high of 188 in June 2013 sometime when I finished the last contract and stopped work - probably permanently). Just looking for a sustainable WOE for the rest of my life that doesn't have me pulling my hair out or having it fall out on its own.

I hope to lose about 20 pounds or so by the end of the year and then lose the remaining 20 over the next 8 months to a year. Or longer or even never on that last 20, I don't really care. I'd consider being able to keep my weight stable at a "normal" BMI (<150) while having a normal, unstressful life as a victory at this point. I'm no longer in a race against myself and there is no real finish line.

I came to this WOE by reading up on 5:2 and watching the Horizon documentary and then looking for a forum for support. The JUDDD board looked like the most friendly, knowledgeable and forgiving place online. I belonged to the CR forum on yahoo years ago in an orthorexic (def - excessive preoccupation with avoiding foods perceived to be unhealthful) stage. I don't want to be OCD like that again. Although I would love to be orthorexic with respect to potato chips for the rest of my life!
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:51 PM   #12
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Calculating the calorie cost of potato chips over time

I hesitate to demonize any food but if there was a bad food, potato chips would be Satan.

I've calculated that when I eat badly or have regained lost weight, most of that gain has come from potato chips. The rest from a mix of chicken wings, too frequent wine and not exercising enough. Maybe the delicious baby back ribs that I make in the slow cooker. Make those less frequently (or more in the case of the working out) and I could live permanently at goal weight without even monitoring.

Think about it - say if I replaced 2 quite filling (and quick!) moderate microwave meals that run about 300 calories for a pretty decent sized serving with 2 bags of potato chips a week (yes, I *can* eat that much!) At 230 grams or ~ 8 ounces, that's 2400 calories a week. Over 52 weeks, that's 93,600 calories or 26 pounds in a year. Being unable to "have just one" Lays chip has made me fight with about 26 pounds in a year, each and every year. That's half of what I'm battling with right there.

In the last month, I've had one 150 calorie bag of chips and 1/2 of a small bag of hickory sticks. I don't miss them.

Add an additional 1/2 hour of exercise a day and it amounts to about 20 pounds a year.

Take away a bottle of wine a week (I usually have ~3 but have more coolers rather than wine in the summer which are caloric TIME BOMBS at ~250 apiece) and that's almost 9 pounds a year.

Voila. 55 pounds.

I realize everyone can't narrow down their problems quite this easily and I'm lucky that I can. Lots of people enjoy restaurant meals or cakes, cookies and chocolate more than I do. I used to as well but it just went away over the years somehow. Or I've just gotten really fussy about them. But even then, it can take me a month to get around to eating a whole chocolate bar. I used to be amazed that my mom could even do that - leave a chocolate bar in the fridge for weeks with a piece out of it and not eat the whole thing??? I get it now. Now to try to do that with this other problem food.

What I like about JUDDD is that I can more easily see that I'd be wasting a huge portion of my up day calories on macerated and compressed potatoes. But I was before, I just chose to ignore it. I don't want to be unconscious of that anymore. I need to learn how to make my own.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:07 PM   #13
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Battling with lack of hunger on up days

I'm probably a minority on this, but I feel so little hunger on up days - or I feel HUNGER but little to no craving.

Today, we went to the mall for lunch. (I had had some yogurt at about 11-something). The little guy picked up 2 tacos (skimpy compared to my home made version!) and I picked up pad thai and a veggie spring roll with peanut sauce for supper. I could only finish 1/4 of the pad thai and at supper, only 3/4 of the spring roll. We also picked up a roasted chicken at Costco and I had the wings (the dog got the skin because he's on a diet too and was drooling at me, poor thing) and 1/2 of a drum and am STUFFED. Also had a couple of handfuls of Kernels caramel popcorn but it was meh. My homemade version is far better. But I only make it at Christmas.

I promised myself a couple of weeks into this journey that I would try to follow intuitive eating principles on my up days. Eat when you're hungry. Stop when you're satisfied. Not full-full but satisfied. So far it doesn't take much food to make me go "nope, had enough of this." I'm sort of glad about this but it just feels really weird. I suspect it's because I go so high protein on my down days that my appetite has gone south.

My oldest son ate the rest of the pad thai for supper when he came home at 8. Glad that's gone. Yikes, I'm saving a lot of money doing this!

Money which I will spend on clothes!!! I bought a cute little sweater (medium) on sale at Laura's for $7.55 (w/tax - marked down from $50). Oh how I wish I could go hog wild in the stores right now but I have a ton of clothes in my closet or boxes that I can wear at various weights below what I'm at now.

Also picked up 4 Wii games to play - EA Active, Wii Sport Resort, Just Dance 4 and Big Brain Academy. The little guy says Wii Sports is the one to play tonight.

Last edited by jacquelinejolie; 08-15-2013 at 07:12 PM.. Reason: edited for shopping
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:05 AM   #14
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You know, I feel less hunger on UP DAYS, but DD's some of them I am hungry ALL DAY LONG!

You know, we experience a great reduction in our grocery bill too. DH / DS14 and I all do rotations! It works well for all of us!
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:45 AM   #15
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Way to get your family on board Monica! My oldest son works a very physical job so he doesn't have much problem controlling his weight. Plus he's 25 so basically, he could eliminate Doritos and lose 5 pounds a week.

My youngest son (almost 13) would like to lose a few pounds but I think that if he just maintains and lets himself grow into his weight, he'll be ok. I'm not buying junk food these days so that's a step in the right direction. Often children put on weight right before they shoot up in height it seems and he's a little short compared to some of his peers. I'm 5' 5.5" and his dad and brother are 6' so hopefully he'll catch up. Although his grandparents / others on his dad's side are very little people.

I do need to get more protein into my up days. Good at sticking to the minimums on DD's but this appetite suppression means I go too carb-y and not enough protein-y on up days. I really don't want to be skinny-fat!

Bought some nice looking lean burgers at Costco yesterday so am saving those for up days for the next week. If the boys don't try to beat me to it.
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Old 08-17-2013, 08:55 AM   #16
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The trend is my friend!

7/14 Start : 183.4 / 35 / 38 / 31 (Wt / BFat% / TWater% / TMuscle %)
8/11 4 weeks in: 173.0 / 33.5 / 40.8 / 31.2
8/17 5 weeks in: 173.2 / 33.0 / 41.1 / 31.8 (after DD)

Whew! Scale weight may not have gone down week over week, but the fat % is going down and the muscle % is going up! Next goal is to get that fat % lower than the muscle %. I have a feeling it will be do-able by the end of August. Yay!

That's almost 1 pound of fat gone this week offset by over a pound of muscle gain (likely replenishment of water and glycogen stores in muscles due to exercise but I'll take it). The average woman can gain only ~ one pound of muscle per month when starting out lifting so I know I didn't gain that much for real.

Given that my calorie intake has been reduced from say TDEE of 1950-ish to ~ 650-ish 3 days a week, that's 1300 calories / day deficit (possibly less since I don't count UD's and don't want to start unless I have to) so ~ one pound. Pure fat.

Last edited by jacquelinejolie; 08-17-2013 at 09:07 AM.. Reason: spelling mistake lol - bone down
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:45 PM   #17
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This ball doesn't bounce??

I checked out the forums for when I did a PSMF (~600 calories a day) in 2011 with one planned "cheat meal" a week and one planned "5 hour refeed" per week. Strangely enough, I didn't "bounce" then either. I'm not sure why I don't? I think it might be because I sometimes have 1-2 glasses of wine on a weekday up day and ~ 3 vodka + DC or caesars on a weekend up day.

I thought it might be because initially I was taking 1 @ 150 mg magnesium citrate on up days only but then I upped that to 2-3 @ 150 mg as my tolerance increased and the laxative issue disappeared (hooray for that!) and I still don't bounce.

Here's my numbers from the PSMF. Aggghhh I hate re-losing weight I've already lost.

11/21 - 173.8 Start weight
11/22 - 173.2 (-.6)
11/23 - 172.6 (-.6)
11/24 - 171 (-1.6)
11/25 - 170 (-1)
11/26 - 169.2 (-.8)
11/27 - 169.4 (+.2)
11/28 - 168.0 (-1.4) Week 1 total: -5.8
11/29 - 168.6 (+0.6)
11/30 - 167.8 (-0.8)
12/1 - 167.4 (-0.4)
12/2 - 166.6 (-0.8)
12/3 - 167.4 (+0.8)
12/4 - 167.8 (+0.4)
12/5 - 166.2 (-1.6) Week 2 total: -1.8
12/6 - 165.8 (-0.4)
12/7 - 165.0 (-0.8)
12/10 - 164.4 (-0.6) Week 2.5 total: -1.8 ** switched to cal counting over Xmas with all the parties etc. (1500-1700)
12/24 - 163.6
12/31 - 159.8

That's 14 pounds in 7 weeks and I was all carbed / watered up at the end. Quite stable losses on that as well considering that twice a week I was carbing up. Not sure what that nice little whoosh was at the end. Probably TOM.

It might also be that I tend to eat a fair amount of fruit and veggies on up days and it kind of eliminates things the next morning. Or that I drink a lot of water on a regular basis. Yet I think I was the same way on WW and TOPS calorie counting. Oh well, it's a mystery and something to be grateful for I guess.

Goal for the week was 174.1 today and I'm at 173.2 (after an Up day).
Next Sunday's goal is 172.6. I'll see how next week goes and if it's too quick (ie. I'm appearing to lose muscle), I'm doing 3 UD's in a row over the weekend or the 2 regular UD's Friday and Sunday (good thing because I have a BBQ potluck to go to - a bounce might appear after that!) and a MD (1000 calories or so - just eat clean but add more fruit/veggies) on Saturday. Last TOM ended ~ 7/30 but it's not normal these days anyway so I never know what to expect...

Here are the weights for the week:
8.11 - 173.0
8.12 - 174.8
8.13 - 174.6
8.14 - 174.4
8.15 - 174.0
8.16 - 173.8
8.17 - 173.2
8.18 - 173.2 (32.9 / 41.1 / 31.8)
I have the flattest low-sloping graph ever. Looks like a bunny slope.
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Old 08-18-2013, 06:22 PM   #18
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Oh my gosh, what an inspiring thread on maintaining

Hey sweet fellow maintainers......

Gives me hope that I can finally lick this monkey on my back.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:34 AM   #19
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Me on cardio

This pic is before I ever started lifting weights. As you can see by the natural size of my calves, I don't train them directly. Ever.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:03 PM   #20
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Just starving today. And my lower back hurts. I think that's a good sign that my hormones are back in shape and TOM is around the corner. I think the last one ended ~ July 29th but it wasn't normal (lasted almost a month). That worries me that my prostaglandins are too high again (causing heavier uterine contractions, hence the aching back) so will start taking naproxen today. And magnesium. And iron.
Feel great otherwise!
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:04 PM   #21
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Thinking about eating at goal weight + maintenance levels

Years ago I read a book by a mother-daughter pair who decided to just start eating the way they would have to eat to be at and maintain their goal weights. I always thought that was such a great idea, I just don't want to have to count calories every day.

I ran the numbers on the UDDD plan site and came out with the following (at a goal weight of 125, 65.5 inches, 48 y.o., 50% maintenance):
Moderate exercise: 1987 / 994 => 2000/1000
Light exercise: 1763 / 882 => 1800 / 900

When I go back to the gym in September, I could use the higher numbers for moderate exercise. My goal is 130 but that's considering a bit more muscle (maybe 5 pounds) - and it's sort of all rounding anyway since I figure I do enough bites, licks and tastes when cooking for the kids that I'm a bit off on my numbers anyway.

I have a difficult time getting all of my UD calories in of ~ 1900-2000 when I'm eating little to no junk food like I am now. I was starving yesterday at lunch and then after having a bunch of chicken wings (~8 so only 500-600 calories?), I ate almost nothing for the rest of the day - oh, except a bowl of french toast crunch cereal - talk about junk food, that stuff is nasty! No wonder the kids won't eat it. Just couldn't stomach the thought of eating anything - could be the low fat / high fat issue? Then I had a nap after the stock market closed for a couple of hours - then was up til 3 a.m. Ugh.

And even the 600 calories a down day that I'm eating now is turning me off of meat since meat, salad, veggies and yogurt is about all I can have on down days if I'm keeping my protein higher. I'm not going to go lower on the protein although I suspect that I could given that I'm eating carbs and plenty of fat every second day. I've seen what going the route of constant low fat/low carb/ low calorie + lower protein (~60 g/day) does and I'm not enough of a meat lover to compensate for it on my up days.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out a way to lose and then maintain without having to count calories or fast/starve too often. Maybe since I'm already at my Sunday's goal weight of 172.6 (like exactly bang on), I'll just diet on days this week that I weigh over 172.6. It's how I kept my weight stable years ago, so maybe it would work for losing too. Especially since I don't bounce up and down a lot and actually only bounced up after weekends years ago anyway.

It's my birthday next week and I think we're going camping so I won't be weighing and will have to just try to eat sensibly (ie. no junk food). I never gain any weight when camping anyway and usually lose. It's the constant hiking. And occasionally running out of food.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:50 AM   #22
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HGB (Helen Gurley Brown) on diet

The lady never did sugar-coat anything...
  • To lose weight, you can't eat as much as you have been eating. To keep it off, you STILL can't eat as much as you have been eating.
  • Virtually EVERYBODY has to diet, so stop thinking of yourself as special.
  • Slenderness is within your total control.
  • TERROR is the word for facing a day with only 800 calories. Losing one measly pound is hard work.
  • You have to stop kidding yourself that there is a special diet - ANY diet - on which you won't feel deprived.
  • It's almost impossible for a healthy person to be too thin. There are very few medical problems associated with thinness.
  • Slender people who say they don't count calories don't have to because from long diet experience they can pick the right amount of food to eat every day - without counting.
  • Exercise is good for you - but it won't make you skinny.
  • Accept once and for all that dieting is HELL and stop getting depressed about it. The more you do it, the better you get at it, like anything else hard that you learn to do.
  • On "heavy" diet days, you must not let a morsel of food past your lips that hasn't been planned for.
  • Crashing is okay, so is fasting (2 days of 500 - 800 calories).
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:08 AM   #23
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Day 39 - goal 173.4, actual 173.2

The plan:
It's an up day - but a moderate one. Spending the day out of town so will be going out for lunch with the little guy. We usually split meals when we go out and it's just the two of us. Unless we go with the oldest son too, in which case he always eats my remainders. My friends are almost all thin and they never finish their meals either so it doesn't look weird. We usually split a dessert among 3-4 of us if there's creme brulee available. I don't really like chocolate or ice cream so that limits things for me. They aren't as fussy - but they're thin and I'm not so...??

Am going to have a greek yogurt w/honey for BF since I'm not sure what time we'll be able to stop for lunch. I made donut muffins last night and had a taste out of the oven. They're pretty good. Guess we'll see what they taste like today too! Also bringing along a roast beef sandwich for us to split if it looks like we have to delay lunch. The kid has such an appetite lately and looks like he's grown about 2-3 inches this summer. Oh yay. Puberty and peri-menopause happening in the family at the same time. He's lucky my moods don't swing. Much.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:14 PM   #24
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Shocking! I think I got all my UD calories in for a change!

Here's what I ate:
- donut muffin - they're really small. But really dense. Very similar to these cupcakes we used to make when I was a kid.
- cream in coffee (4 c. Of coffee, not of cream.)
- 1/2 of medium fries at McD's
- McD's iced coffee (shocked that a small is only 100 calories!)
- pumpkin seeds
- 1/2 of a 9% greek yogurt mixed with 0% plain yogurt (to cut sweetness)
- 1/2 roast beef sandwich
- roasted seaweed
- Healthy choice dinner (Kung Pao Chicken) with added veggies and chicken
- 4 oz vodka w/2 diet cokes

The boys had tacos for supper but I decided to treat myself to what I really wanted (the Kung Pao Chicken). I feel kind of bad that I didn't get many good veggies in, but I do on other days that are (huge) salad based, so not too shabby. Went grocery shopping, but realized when I got home that the plums and nectarines I picked up weren't quite ripe yet - maybe this weekend?

I'm at 174.6 (1.4 up from this morning) tonight w / 32.8% Fat and 32.9% Muscle (muscle up significantly, not sure why except I lifted yesterday). I've decided to do DDAR (down day as required) and feel so much better about that. Tomorrow, the goal is 173.2 and if I'm over, I have a down day. If I'm not, I don't. If I'm close, I have a MD (moderate day of ~ 1000 cals / highish protein) and hope for the best the day after. Maybe pick up the pace on the exercise if there's too many as well.

Today, I only did 2 miles walking the dog since he started favoring his front leg after two turns around the lake / pond. So I did a 20 minute Wii zumba session when I came home.

I get the ease of a regular schedule of up days and down days, I really do. I just don't get the whole concept of something like 5:2 where "I am dieting because it's Monday or Thursday or EOD." I diet because my weight isn't where I want it to be - that's it. However, it wouldn't surprise me if I need to have 2-3 down days a week to hit my daily goal numbers. It just might be on a little different schedule. And that's ok.

Last edited by jacquelinejolie; 08-21-2013 at 08:28 PM.. Reason: add food
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:03 AM   #25
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Day 40 - goal 173.2, actual 172.4

Spent over 2 hours playing Just Dance last night after posting. I got in about 1/2 the dance time. I'm not sure how to account for how much I exercise and what the calculator means by "light, moderate or hard" exercise levels. I'm definitely not sedentary.

If I was dieting using my calorie counting app, I would be allowed to (and should to fuel the body for more exercise) eat the exercise calories which were probably around 500 or so yesterday. I wasn't going to have a midnight snack just because I'd exercised right then. Really need to start wearing the fitbit again. So I'm adding them to today and having an 1100 calorie down-moderate day since I'm less than a pound under my goal weight for the day. This is a good thing because I've noticed that occasionally my legs are feeling that muscle weakness you get when you start low-carbing.

When I've done calorie counting using my app in the past few years, I don't think I've ever hit 2000 in a day, with or without exercise. Just don't think my appetite can go that high without potato chips involved (they shut off the fullness switch in my head). Which is strange because I used to be able to go high on WW. Ah well, one of the nice things about getting older maybe - that you calm down around food.

Average weight loss for the last 7 days was 0.23 pounds per day. From when I started, it's 0.28 pounds per day and 11.0 in total. BF% at 32.6% so 7.99 pounds of fat lost and 3.01 pounds of muscle lost.

I was reading Michael Matthews article on IF on Muscle for Life: "... found that amino acids from muscle were responsible for about 50% of glucose maintenance at the 16-hour mark of fasting, and 100% at the 28-hour mark.
The bottom line is the body wants to spare muscle whenever possible, and in most cases, no serious muscle loss can occur until you’ve fasted for 12-16+ hours."

Well, it's been about 14 for me (and worse, I exercised last night) - time to go get some breakfast! Should have had some greek yogurt before I went to bed...
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:52 AM   #26
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The cold, white hands

Explanation here (from Lean Gains / ESE) for the return of the Raynaud:

Fasting and cold fingers

"Q: Sometimes when I fast my finger tips get cold, why is that?

Fasting increases the blood flow to your body fat (the process is called adipose tissue blood flow). So when you are fasting more blood is travelling to your body fat, presumably to help move it to your muscles where it can be burned as a fuel. Due to this increased travel to your body fat, micro-vasodilation occurs in your fingertips and sometimes toes to compensate. So in some cases it’s a ‘necessary evil’ in the fat loss process."
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:18 PM   #27
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Lyle McDonald on the "whoosh"

From his post "On Whooshes and Squishy Fat":

"Back during my college days, one of my professors threw out the idea that after fat cells had been emptied of stored triglyceride, they would temporarily refill with water (glycerol attracts water, which might be part of the mechanism). So there would be no immediate change in size, body weight or appearance. Then, after some time frame, the water would get dropped, the fat cells would shrink. A weird way of looking at it might be that the fat loss suddenly becomes ‘apparent’. That is, the fat was emptied and burned off days or weeks ago but until the water is dropped, nothing appears to have happened."

"Somewhat circumstantially, people using Bioimpedance body fat scales (which use hydration to estimate body fat levels) have noted that body fat appears to go up right before a big drop. This implicates water balance as the issue here."
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:41 PM   #28
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Day 40 Night weight - 172.6

Body fat: 32.3, Muscle: 33.1%
Curious as to what the numbers will look like tomorrow.
A friend told me today that my numeracy might be an issue... ;-)
LOL - you can take the woman out of finance but... I'm such a geek.

Boy, I hope I don't gain weight overnight since tomorrow is supposed to be an UD.

Good moderate (although slightly indulgent) diet day today. Greek yogurt w/ half scoop roadside lemonade syntrax pp in the morning, shrimp alfredo at lunch (extra veggies, extra shrimp), roast chicken for supper. 2 bags 100 cal baked cheetos. 2 vodka and perrier after supper. Somewhere around 1100 calories and 80 g protein anyway. Not the best choices though when I look at it. Maybe I just shouldn't look at it.

The only exercise I did today was on my mastercard. Shopping. Bought a few sweaters (medium) at a summer sale. No idea why sweaters are on sale at a summer sale but... about 85% off down to $14 each? I'll take it! Pup and I played fetch this aft so he was good. His leg looks fine now but I'm keeping him away from the dog park for a couple of days just in case.

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Old 08-23-2013, 06:39 AM   #29
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Day 41 - goal 173.0, actual 172.0 - UD it is!

It was going to be an up day anyway, now it's a guilt-free one. Good thing having the moderate day in there has up-regulated my appetite.
32.4% BF & 32.9% Muscle
about that muscle %. Seems high to me.

Tom Venuto says that with good adherence to a diet/exercise program, losing .5% of bodyfat per week is pretty good. He's seen it higher, but it requires a lot of cardio to do it. I'm at .44% over almost 6 weeks.

I've decided that since for September I will be following more of a normal exercise routine again of M-W-F class (zumba, spinning) usually followed by 1/2-3/4 hour in the weight room, I'm going to have a set schedule of up days and down days as well. That's M-W-F up days for sure. That works well because I can go out for lunch every day after working out.

At a set amount of 35% WLM, moderate exercise (I think that ~5 hours of working out a week plus 1 hour a day of walking the dog is moderate?) and at 170#, the calculator gives a down day number of 800 which is more than fine for Tu-Th (I can add in a piece of fruit again! And maybe bacon bits on my salad!) and I'll play Saturday/Sunday by ear depending on if I'm going out or not and where my weight is at. No need to apply a 450 calorie sledge hammer if an 800 one will do the job.

My only concern is that it's fairly unlikely that I'd be hitting a 2300 calorie up day without counting and forcing it. But maybe that just means I have less weekend restrictions? Or I'll get into the flow of things and not have as much appetite suppression like I do now over time.

I was reading some posts on here of people that also work out regularly and did JUDDD but stopped. The common complaint seemed to be not enough food to fuel their exercise. I'm not sure though if they were trying to stick to 20% mode or not and not adjusting their exercise %ages or if it's just an unsustainable level of calories on low days even at 35% mode. It's a horrible thing to spend 10-15 hours a month trying to build one measly pound of muscle only to lose it from under-eating. Even in the 1957 Spanish study, they ate at 50% on down days - but they were also in an old folks home so I'm guessing they weren't working out...

Berkhan at LeanGains recommends an IF window of only 14-16 hours for women. Basically that's just a late breakfast if you're not a night eater (which I'm generally not.) Dinner ending at 7 p.m. and breakfast at 9-11 a.m. That's not really fasting much. Berardi had pretty fantastic results with his IF experimentation over at Precision Nutrition. He did a full day a week for the first month or two but said that 2 full day fasts a week made him lose quite a bit of muscle. My mileage would vary of course, since he doesn't exactly have 32.4% bodyfat to draw on like I do. He went from 10% down to 4% BF with his 6 month experiment. Anyway, it could work for me in making Saturday a full 24 hour fast day from 7 p.m. Friday to 7 p.m. Saturday.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:51 PM   #30
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Day 41 evg - Ugh. Feeling too full is painful and not fun.

Appetite went away again after lunch but I sort of forced myself to make burgers for supper (had to anyway for the boys). I ate one, picked off some of the bread like I always do. Finally, gave up on it at about 2 bites left. Gave the rest to the dog and I ate the veggie part. He didn't even chew, just swallowed it whole.

I tracked today and was up to just over 1700 calories. I don't understand why I can't eat more? If I'm on a regular calorie counting plan, I have no problem eating 1500 - 1700 a day and feeling just right. And then eating exercise calories on top of that some days.

There's going to be a big bounce tomorrow. At 175.8 tonight - up from 172.0 this morning.
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