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Old 03-08-2013, 05:03 AM   #421
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:12 AM   #422
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Z:

Are you going to share your research as you go along or at the end?
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:33 PM   #423
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3/1 - 280.6
3/2 - 278.4
3/3 - 279.0 <- carb refeed
3/4 - disappeared due to 36 hour turnaround day
3/5 - 277.6
3/6 - 282
3/8 - 283.6

Hit the gym yesterday, and the first purported benefit of a carb refeed seems, to me, to be well debunked:

Running on glycogen hasn't made my workouts more explosive, or improved my endurance in any way. In fact, I feel more tired during the workout - like I'm going to hit the wall sooner.

Furthermore, I feel more tired more often - even when not exercising. I'm working nights, 10pm to 8am. The last few days, I've been plain exhausted by 5am (leaving me 3 hours of abject exhaustion to push through)

It's worth pointing out too, that a 24 hour refeed turned into a 3 day vacation. I don't consider myself to have particularly faint willpower, but at the end of day 1, I knew I couldn't go back to LC until I'd crossed ice cream off my list. And a burrito - I finally live like 50 miles from Mexico and I can't even eat Mexican food. And a full sugar chocolate and caramel breve...

I'm eating kielbasa and eggs with cheese for breakfast today, and my half and half latte will be sugar free. But I'm definitely going to be paying the price, in terms of withdrawal symptoms. and since I'm not in ketosis right now - how easy would it be to just have a burger, and worry about getting back to it this weekend?

Too easy.

While the numbers of the coming weeks will tell the tale that I was interested in learning, the non-numerical data seems to tell the entire story: the refeed carries an unusually high probability of long-term backfire.

Still - it will be interesting to see how the rest of the story plays out.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:10 AM   #424
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Good good good.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:38 AM   #425
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Z--I'm glad you've learned early what most of us learn too late--after a cheat, it is SUPER EASY to just continue on eating tons of carbs. Our brains seem to process the information in the same way--"well, as long as I'm off, I may as well have ice cream" (or insert carb laden treat of choice).

For me, counting carbs is the way of keeping my appetite and cravings at bay--it's not the low carbs that help me lose weight, it's the hunger and cravings CONTROL that keeps me from eating my own weight in cupcakes every week.

Some people can do this successfully--I've seen it many times. Unfortunately, many of us fall victim to the cravings and do a complete low carb holiday.

Keep up the good work!
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:43 AM   #426
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Planned Carb Refeed

Thank you for sharing the results and commentary of your Planned Carb Refeed. I've conducted similar experiments with my own eating plans throughout the years. I've always been fascinated with how my body reacts to the foods I eat, and why some people can eat carbs and not gain weight, yet I can eat a slice of toast and gain weight.

Anyway, I appreciate the time you take to post everything. Thanks.

Last edited by SkepticalMe; 03-09-2013 at 08:47 AM.. Reason: Added a blurb.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:18 PM   #427
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cross post from daily weighers thread - I know I've got people following this in both places, and I just don't have time before work to write something new...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DairyQueen View Post
Good good good.
I know that your iron willpower will lead to success.
I don't mind a little sarcasm.

3/1 - 280.6
3/2 - 278.4
3/3 - 279.0
3/4 - disappeared due to 36 hour turnaround day (shift work)
3/5 - 277.6
3/6 - 282
3/8 - 283.6
3/9 - 281.4 <- probably just a day or two away from my previous weight - at which point I'll start a 4 week timer to calculate pre and post-feed weight loss velocity. I'm trying not to enter this with any preconceived notions - whatever happens is what I will report. It's the same approach that brought me to LC in the first place.

No assumptions, just experimentation and observation.

I spent an hour in the gym last night (this morning before I went to sleep). I'm still tired waking up. It must have been a good workout.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:13 AM   #428
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i wasn't being sarcastic! i think that iron willpower generally describes you -- your time off was just that- an anomaly! (right?)
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:28 AM   #429
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i wasn't being sarcastic! i think that iron willpower generally describes you -- your time off was just that- an anomaly! (right?)
Well, thanks. And no worries - for what it's worth, I read it as 'friendly sarcasm'.

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Old 03-12-2013, 07:36 PM   #430
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i have to say that as i get closer to goal and it becomes more difficult, I am fearful of carbs, and that probably isn't a good thing. But i abhor the thought of eating carbs BY ACCIDENT. and carbs are in everything. Today I was in Trader Joe's -- picking something up for someone -- and i started exploring. I hardly ever go food shopping (Mike does all the shopping) - so i was looking at the coconut oil (and thinking WHOA that is a lot of calories I do NOT need, and I'm not the least bit curious about the taste) and the dried blueberries with no sugar (really? that's a lot of carbs!) and the little dill pickles (mmm hardly any carbs but i know they add up) and then i tried to answer this week's unanswered question -- where are the FULL fat greek yogurts? Well i found one - made with cream first, then milk, blah blah...but it still had MANY many more carbs than i would ever feel comfortable eating. anyway, just blathering a bit.
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:13 AM   #431
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Still 280 in case anyone was wondering on the progress of my experiment, but I had an unscheduled bar night this weekend, so it set me back a bit.

I don't know much about being close to goal - but as for carb fear, that I can understand. I have become quite carbophobic in my day to day life. It has gotten to the point that I've restricted my varieties of food to the point that I know the exact carb count of anything I eat - often by memory, and practically by reflex.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:11 AM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z View Post
I've restricted my varieties of food to the point that I know the exact carb count of anything I eat - often by memory, and practically by reflex.
This!

It ought to be on one of those "You know you're a low-carber when..." threads.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:38 AM   #433
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I just found out something amazing:

Raspberries. are. totally. legal.

I'm not talking about one or two raspberries. I've eaten a 6 ounce box of raspberries two days in a row,and stayed completely on plan - well under my 20g net carbohydrate per day target.

Sounds too good to be true?

6 ounces (~170g) of raspberries has only about 8 grams of non-fiber carbohydrate. Even as strict as I keep my diet, I can fit an entire box in, every few days - without even bending the rules.

Obviously I can't eat like that every day, but it's nice to be at a point where I'm comfortable adding a few foods back in. Don't worry though - eggs are still the mainstay.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:01 AM   #434
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Blackberries are great too
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:32 AM   #435
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You are so right about the berries. I happen to not like raspberries but I love blackberries and when I want something special I'll have some blackberries with whipped cream. Okay it isn't creme brulee but I have come to appreciate as much.

How are you doing on the night shift? I know I never could adjust my sleep pattern to it. Of course that was in the late 60's so my sleep pattern now is to take a nap whenever i'm tired.
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:43 AM   #436
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It's funny: The more weight that I lose, the less time I seem to have to spend here on the webpage talking about losing weight.

I've been staying consistently in the gym, 4 days a week, every day after work. Just today I was able to step up to the 35 pound dumbbells for my curls and hammer curls for a set. I couldn't quite curl the 35 pounders once last week, and now I can curl 35 pounds 6 times on both arms (6 is the number per set that I aim for). A low number of repetitions at the highest tolerable weight is supposed to be key to training for strength. I rotate exercises to make sure I have a full 3 minutes between sets on the same muscle group.

So I opened up with a set at 35lbs, and did the other 4 sets at 30lbs. Over the next few weeks, I'll transition to using the 35 exclusively, and eventually working my way up to the 40 in the next month or two - and so on and so forth.

Once I've worked my way up to 50 pound dumbbells for curls and presses I'll start focusing on working towards muscular hypertrophy. Somehow it just makes sense to me that if I want to put on lean muscle mass faster, I need to move a lot of iron.

I've already been skinny, and I've already been fat. I'd kind of like to transition straight across to some variant of 'in shape'. That's probably a bit of a pipe dream. I'm going to have to put on some serious beef to hold up all this leftover skin I'll be sporting.

So maybe I won't quite make it to 'good looking' or even 'slightly less repulsive', but at least I'll be physically stronger, and in better health all around - and that can only mean good things for my bowling scores.

As for the Carb Refeed theory, two weeks later, it isn't looking so strong. I'll put up the numbers once I hit the 4 week mark.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:07 AM   #437
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Good for you, Z. I've been lifting some too and it feels good, though I'm sore all over. I think you're going to have to change your goal weight though, if you keep up the lifting. My husband is 5' 10" and at 185, he has almost no fat on him. He built up massive shoulder muscles with physically hard work for 20 years, but the rest of him isn't overly bulky, muscle-wise. I would think somewhere between 170 and 180 would be more realistic, accounting for some muscle.

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Old 03-24-2013, 02:12 AM   #438
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Good for you, Z. I've been lifting some too and it feels good, though I'm sore all over. I think you're going to have to change your goal weight though, if you keep up the lifting. My husband is 5' 10" and at 185, he has almost no fat on him. He built up massive shoulder muscles with physically hard work for 20 years, but the rest of him isn't overly bulky, muscle-wise. I would think somewhere between 170 and 180 would be more realistic, accounting for some muscle.
Certainly when I get down towards that weight, I'll probably have to re-evaluate the specifics of my weight goals - I'm still at least 100 pounds away from having to worry that kind of thing.

For me, it's not the number that's important, it's the principle. I want to get all the way down to wherever it is I belong, weight wise. I don't want to stop losing weight simply because I've hit a round number, but rather, I want to keep losing until I can't. If I get to 150, and there's still weight to lose I want to lose it. On the other hand, if get down 186 and there's simply nothing left to lose - I won't let it bother me. I'm certainly not going to intentionally lose muscle just to make a number appear.

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Old 03-30-2013, 09:26 AM   #439
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3/1 - 280.6
3/2 - 278.4
3/3 - 279.0 <-Carb refeed
3/4 - DNW <- Carb refeed
3/5 - 277.6 <- Refeed slide
3/6 - 282
3/8 - 283.6
3/9 - 281.4
...
~280, for almost a week
...
3/14 - 275.6 <- Back in the Game! New low.
3/17 - 274.6 <- Even newer low
3/21 - 279 <- bounce up to pre refeed level
3/22 - 277.4
3/26 - 275.0
3/27 - 274.6
3/29 - 278.4

March just hasn't been my month. I'm lifting weights harder than ever, I'm eating clean... I just can't seem to kick back into weight loss mode.

I did lose two inches from my waist though (down to a massive 48 inches )

On the upside, I'm actually starting to see gains from lifting. I'll try to pretend that the pound or two of muscle I'm gaining a month is somehow totally responsible for the 10 pounds I won't be losing.

I think my experiment set me back, though. I guess next month should provide the answer to that question...

I'm eating clean, lifting heavy, sleeping well, staying hydrated, and working out every day. I even stay active on my non-lifting days. I'm doing all the right things. I suspect that a serious whoosh is in my very near future - and that I should see a new low before April 7.

I neither expect, nor demand instant gratification. When the body lets go it lets go - I just have to keep living right, and the results will follow.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:55 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by Z View Post
I just have to keep living right, and the results will follow.
My mantra of late, as well. I enjoy following your progress. Thanks!
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:49 PM   #441
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March start: 280.6
March end: 278.something...
March goal: <262
April goal: I'll tell you after I hit the march goal of 272

4/1 - Did not have a 4/1, due to 36 hour turnaround
4/2 - 274.0

I walked yesterday. A lot.

In the heat of the desert sun, I walked 3.6 miles, from 1:00 until 3:00. I cabbed back from the computer shop (the case I picked up weighs 60 pounds empty - a bit more than I was prepared to carry for another 3.6 miles).

I got home around 4:00, sat for 30 minutes, and got back up and walked to the store (I was walking until 7:00)

Last month was a disappointment, but the lesson is clear - a continuation of what I learned in January...

It doesn't matter if I'm exercising like crazy, or if I go right back to my diet or anything else: If I want to lose weight, nothing less than 100% dietary compliance will suffice. A single weekend off the wagon basically kills my weight loss for a month. Conversely, when I'm eating right, exercise does help.

April, for me, has to be a month marked with absolute and unwavering compliance to the decisions I have made for myself. Only having the will to successfully execute on my own plan will yield the results I need.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:24 PM   #442
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Quote:
If I want to lose weight, nothing less than 100% dietary compliance will suffice.
Essentially, this is exactly what Dr. Atkin's said way back in 1972--"just a taste can be the kiss of death on this diet".

I never believed in carb re-feeds. While I will admit that everyone is different, the idea of eating the very things that made you heavy in the first place to "kick start" weight loss, really makes no sense to me.

Thanks for being the guinea pig for this experiment. A piece of pizza (or even a whole one) would not have been worth it for me to lose a whole month of weight loss. It's damn well hard enough for me to lose what little I manage to lose in a month....

Keep up the good work, Z....
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:33 AM   #443
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Hope all is well with you, Z. I love reading your journal (and follow a few people here)! Very inspiring Eventhough I don't post much, I read everyday (bit shy on the posting!)
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:12 PM   #444
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Hope all is well with you, Z. I love reading your journal (and follow a few people here)! Very inspiring Eventhough I don't post much, I read everyday (bit shy on the posting!)
Thanks for stopping by. It's always nice to know that someone is reading

I've been lazy on posting, but not lazy on the lifestyle. Long story short, I've been back and forth between 275 and 277 for the last 6 weeks or so. it has been quite frustrating. Even though I've lived within the letter of my allowed carbs and foods, I've found it to be necessary to re-evaluate my allowed foods and re-initialize my diet.

So it's back to basics:

Eggs
Unprocessed meat (steak and roast)
Vegetables (Mostly onions, peppers and chilies, mushrooms, garlic, peeled cucumber, and raw spinach)
Butter
Real olive oil (from California, not the fake adulterated stuff from Italy)

I've cut heavy cream back out, along with salami (I was eating about a 3rd of a pound a day of the stuff). I've also cut out ham, avocados, and any tomatoes that were purchased at a supermarket. In other words, I'll never turn down my grandmother's Celebrity or Jet Star tomatoes, but I'd rather eat the sticker than try to choke down a hard, flavorless supermarket Roma.

It's weird... it wasn't that long ago that tomatoes tasted good. What happened? When did we as consumers decide that we wanted red emaciated tomatoes with thick skins that look good on a shelf and ship well over large and juicy tomatoes?

Oh well. I digress...

I'm back to the most restrictive phase of my diet, and I'm still lifting weights 4 days a week, and walking 6-7 days a week. That was the most frustrating part - no one should work out this hard to see results stand still for a month and a half.

I've changed what I need to change, and not given up. I'll get there.

Well, we're on company time. I'd better get back into the salt mines before the guy with the whip notices I'm missing.

4/2 - 274.0
4/5 - 275.0
4/6 - 274.6
4/8 - 273.4
4/16 - 273.0
4/17 (afternoon before going to sleep) - 272.8
4/17 (night time wake-up) - 271.2
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:10 AM   #445
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That was the most frustrating part - no one should work out this hard to see results stand still for a month and a half.
You're gaining muscle and muscle weighs more than fat.

It might be time to start taking your measurements in order to see the difference in size, rather than just weight.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:46 PM   #446
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Z,
I completely understand your frustration being in a stall that shouldn't be. I hit my first one about six months in for no apparent reason and it wasn't until I took all processed meat out of my diet that it broke.

My nightly snack was an ounce of cheese and three ounces of salami or ham or corned beef. I cut the meat out and my stall broke but the loss came much slower after that. The second time I stalled was when I started exercising every day. It makes no sense but that one didn't break until I cut all nuts out of my menu.

Now when I try to introduce any of those things back I will gain. I'm sure the salt has to be the part problem for me but I really miss them.

You are right about the tomatoes. It is almost impossible to find one that doesn't taste like flavorless wax. Every now and then Safeway will discount their heirloom tomatoes, because they are real close to being overripe, and I will get a few. Even discounted they are outrageous but sometimes I just want to eat a real tomato.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:39 AM   #447
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Farmer's Market is the only place I'll buy tomatoes!

I love, love, LOVE "real" tomatoes. And see no point in eating the ones from the grocery!

I feel you on the stall, Z.

But none of that work was "for nothing". In October, it wouldn't even have been POSSIBLE for you to consider the kind of exercise regimen you've been doing! You would have dropped dead on the spot from THINKING about it! Not because you were lazy, but because your body simply didn't have that in it.

Regardless of whether you never drop another ounce of fat, the exercise is benefiting you. A fit person who is obese is far healthier and has a far LOWER risk (for all the classic health-issues that go with obesity) than an unfit person who is obese. So no matter what, you've been improving your health. Even if the scale doesn't budge and your britches don't droop.
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I haven't found anywhere else to track this, and am not sure how accurate my scale is, but Body fat:
10/26/2012: 39.0% 10/27/2012: 39.2%
10/28/2012: 39.3% 10/30/2012: 38.5%
10/31/2012: 38.6% 11/02/2012: 36.5%
11/03/2012: 39.1% 11/04/2012: 39.3%
11/05/2012: 39.3% 11/07/2012: 38.5%
11/10/2012: 38.9%
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:13 AM   #448
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Breakfast: Peel, chop, and saute 2 garlic cloves in butter. Add 3 eggs. Scramble.
Dinner: Peel, chop, and saute 2 garlic cloves in butter. Add 3 eggs. Scramble.
Snack: half of a peeled cucumber and some broccoli.

That pretty much sums up my week.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:48 AM   #449
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Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 714
Gallery: Z
Stats: 350/250.0/155
WOE: Permanent Induction
Start Date: September 2012
Rest assured - I'm still in the game. it was just easier to post when I had something to say other than "same weight different day"



The scale says 272, but I'm "down to" a 47.5 inch waist. I've dropped two of those inches in the last month. I'll admit that's a less than inspiring number, but to put it in perspective, My waist was at 59 inches in September.

I now own a custom-made $1000+ suit that I cannot wear because it is FAR too large on me. It was hand stitched by a leading "Big and Tall" tailor in San Francisco to fit me, specifically, and now it fits me like a little kid trying on dad's off-the-rack bargain basement suit.

It's a good thing I still have my off-the-rack bargain basement suit from several years ago - it fits me again.

Even if the change wasn't so dramatic when trying on clothes, I simply feel better. A number on the scale is irrelevant when I've more than doubled my strength. My endurance used to be measured in minutes standing - now it's measured in hours walking or in the gym.

I have the feeling I'm going to hit into the 269 in the next few weeks. But whether I lose weight or not, living right is never the wrong choice. On a long enough timeline, results happen. They just don't always happen on the scale.
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:45 PM   #450
Major LCF Poster!
 
Melle's_Sweetheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,407
Stats: 355/293/250 (1st goal)
WOE: Kamikaze Atkin's
Start Date: Dec 1, 2003 (first time) 10/18/12 (last time)
Congratulations!
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