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Old 10-02-2012, 01:59 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddy View Post
That's awesome. For me it usually means the start of a stall or gain!
Strange! Because once we start to flow, that's when our bodies begin to release all the fluids they've been holding to potentially nurture a fetus (and those begin collecting in the week or so leading up to TOM). Many people even find a bout of constipation ends when TOM begins.

Tell your body it's working backwards and to knock it off!
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:17 PM   #212
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IDK, I just know that in my first round I STS for 6 days during my period... this time it wasn't as bad. Who knows.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:08 PM   #213
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ah. Maybe it was something about the round. I just know in both my normal not dieting life and my normal dieting life I get a loss after my period. I sure hope it's not different on HCG.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:17 AM   #214
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Start Date: LowCal/Dukan/JUDD 2/12-8/12, then 3 rounds rxHCG
8/30 - 169.5 LOAD DAY 1
8/31 - ??? LOAD DAY 2
9/01 - VLCD1 172.8 +3.3 after loading
9/02 - VLCD2 169.5 -3.3 (lost all of loading)
9/03 - VLCD3 167.1 -2.4 (-5.7 from load w)
9/04 - VLCD4 165.8 -1.3 (-6 from load w, 3.7 from pre-load)
9/05 - VLCD5 165.1 -0.7 (-4.4 from pre-load)
9/06 - VLCD6 164.1 -1.0 (-5.4 from pre-load)
9/07 - VLCD7 164.0 -0.1 (-5.5 from pre-load) (injected 125iu)
9/08 - VLCD8 163.0 -1.0 (-6.5 from pre-load)
9/09 - VLCD9 163.? (can't remember, possibly up .4 or STS)
9/10 - VLCD10 163 (back to 150iu, better day hunger wise)
9/11 - VLCD11 162.8 -0.2
9/12 - VLCD12 161.4 -1.4 (SM tea helped)
9/13 - VLCD13 161.4 STS (predicted post-SM tea "stall")
9/14 - VLCD14 STS is my guess
9/15 - VLCD15 160.7 -0.7
9/16 - VLCD16 160.3 -0.4
9/17 - VLCD17 160.0
9/18 - VLCD18 160.0
9/19 - VLCD19 159.0
9/20 - VLCD20 159.3
9/21 - VLCD21 158.4
9/22 - VLCD22 STS
9/23 - VLCD23 STS
9/24 - VLCD24 STS
9/25 - VLCD25 STS
9/26 - VLCD26 157.7
9/27 - VLCD27 157.4
9/28 - VLCD28 157.2
9/29 - VLCD29 156.5
9/30 - VLCD30 156.6 (I call that STS)
10/1 - VLCD31 155.9
10/2 - VLCD32 STS with TOM staring today (good sign of things to come)!
10/3 - VLCD33 154.8

down 1.1, which is HUGE for me at this late stage of the game (as you can see)! And TOM still going, which means the possibility of another decent drop.

Question. How many injection days are really okay? I've seen different numbers - 40, 42, 43 (I guess some count the load days and some don't)? Because my clinic has given me enough shots for 46 days (perhaps mistakenly, as I switched the day of the week I came in), but that seems pretty much further than Simeons recommended. And they don't have patients skip a day a week (I wouldn't have anyway, because I wasn't even sure I was going past 23). Have many here done more than 43 without issues? I had SO wanted to get closer to 145!

Oh one last thing... is everyone else hungrier during TOM? At least I think it's TOM - I hope it's not immunity setting in.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:53 PM   #215
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I'm pretty sure I've heard Robin talk about being hungrier during TOM. I know I am!

You'll know if immunity is setting in. It was pretty drastic for me.

I can't remember how many days of injections. If your clinic says it's ok to do the 46, I'd go with it.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:51 PM   #216
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Nice Loss Buttah!! So excited for you! You said it would come from your period and it did! Yahoo!!!
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:37 PM   #217
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Hi, Buttah! Just stopping by to say HI!

Good job on everything! I find it interesting that Robin said add an egg with half yolk cuz that's what I did when I'd get desperate. I never read her books but have watched a couple of her videos. Now I'm doing JUDDD and trying to learn the hunger thing to maintain. Doing JUDDD for maintenance.

Thanks for writing it all down! You rock!
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:41 AM   #218
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Hi C'Marie. I have a zillion questions for you!!!

And Robin said a whole egg. I did the half yoke thing on my own (too nervous to eat the whole yolk, per Simeons. I'm a bit OCD that way.)

I know there are many HCGers to go to JUDDD to maintain or even keep losing. I have seen the beginnings of their stories over there, but not the endings. Did they keep the weight off long term? How soon do you think it's "safe" to start losing again after HCG, while on JUDDD? I'm not jumping right back. I will do P3 the "normal" way at first, but using hunger. I think my body will need a break from 500 calories, honestly. But after 3 weeks, I haven't decided between Robin's way (HS only, which I've done in the past, years ago, successfully) or JUDDD. It's too bad HCG can't get me to goal! (Although my goal was initially conservative when I was just beginning this journey - I'd like to get into the 130's, truth be told. Just haven't adjusted it yet.)

So again, are there former HCG JUDDDers in Maintenance Lane? Do you know? What's the long term prognosis?

Last edited by buttah; 10-04-2012 at 07:42 AM..
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:17 AM   #219
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WTG Buttah, how wonderful to see that drop!
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:32 AM   #220
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Thanks, Kissa!!!!
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:50 AM   #221
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@Buttah, I don't know who has transitioned from actually making goal on hcg and then gone to JUDDD. I think the only one I personally know of is cruzcrzy, another Marie. She actually made her hcg goal, then had a skin surgery, then went onto JUDDD and lost more. She isn't maintaining with JUDDD now, however, she chose to just do straight calorie control. But she is maintaining! She still posts in some threads.

I think, more often, that people don't actually get to their goal and switch WOE to something that might work better for them long term. I know hcg was great for me, but some problems have cropped up in my health and now I am not sure I can continue that way, at least for now. So for me, JUDDD is an answer to prayer! Some kind souls, the JUDDD Budds, encouraged me to try it. I went straight from P2 to JUDDD with only one P3 up day. I know, I know, probably not the best way to do it, BUT I was scared to not be able to stabilize. I have rocking hormones right now, up down and sideways. Meno, Low adrenal function, high cortisol at night and low in the day, low thyroid - all of which I am attempting to treat completely naturally at this point for a variety of reasons. I also have arthritis and JUDDD sirt1 is supposed to help with inflammation. I do feel better getting rid of gluten or at least wheat and very minimal gluten elsewhere and following JUDDD. My problem right now is when I get going with JUDDD, I get insomnia, and I'm trying to get off all drugs. I have always known I have an "anti" reaction to several drugs and also now I found out, herbs as well, so some of the greatest adrenal support herbs do the complete opposite on me.

I wish I knew the answer to your question, but since I don't know anyone who has gotten to goal with hcg and kept it there with JUDDD, I will just say I will keep trying myself and maybe you and I can do it together

Whether we get there with JUDDD, hcg, or pure orneriness, I'm game!
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:54 AM   #222
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No, I hear you. And that's helpful. I have switched my WOE several times in my WLJ since February, and the changes have served me well. I will not reach goal on HCG unless I do another short round after this one (just another week). But I hate waiting even longer for surgery, so JUDDD may just take too long (impatient), making me tempted to lose the last of it on a short round, then JUDDD for maintenance.

I saw Marie's story - that helped too. I have just waited so long to fix my pregnancy pouch (kids are 20 and 16) that I can't bear waiting another 6 months to a year.

And for the record, I lost a few on JUDDD before jumping to HCG. I'm a jumper. Whatever keeps it going.

Last edited by buttah; 10-04-2012 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:25 PM   #223
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BTW, up .1 today. Which I consider a STS, especially with TOM making fluids wonky.

But still kinda bummed at how much the loss has slowed down! I have another week and not expecting more than a couple lbs by my last injection, if I'm lucky.

Glad I've done it, though!
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:54 AM   #224
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WOE: peri-meno "corrective" R4
Start Date: LowCal/Dukan/JUDD 2/12-8/12, then 3 rounds rxHCG
8/30 - 169.5 LOAD DAY 1
8/31 - ??? LOAD DAY 2
9/01 - VLCD1 172.8 +3.3 after loading
9/02 - VLCD2 169.5 -3.3 (lost all of loading)
9/03 - VLCD3 167.1 -2.4 (-5.7 from load w)
9/04 - VLCD4 165.8 -1.3 (-6 from load w, 3.7 from pre-load)
9/05 - VLCD5 165.1 -0.7 (-4.4 from pre-load)
9/06 - VLCD6 164.1 -1.0 (-5.4 from pre-load)
9/07 - VLCD7 164.0 -0.1 (-5.5 from pre-load) (injected 125iu)
9/08 - VLCD8 163.0 -1.0 (-6.5 from pre-load)
9/09 - VLCD9 163.? (can't remember, possibly up .4 or STS)
9/10 - VLCD10 163 (back to 150iu, better day hunger wise)
9/11 - VLCD11 162.8 -0.2
9/12 - VLCD12 161.4 -1.4 (SM tea helped)
9/13 - VLCD13 161.4 STS (predicted post-SM tea "stall")
9/14 - VLCD14 STS is my guess
9/15 - VLCD15 160.7 -0.7
9/16 - VLCD16 160.3 -0.4
9/17 - VLCD17 160.0
9/18 - VLCD18 160.0
9/19 - VLCD19 159.0
9/20 - VLCD20 159.3
9/21 - VLCD21 158.4
9/22 - VLCD22 STS
9/23 - VLCD23 STS
9/24 - VLCD24 STS
9/25 - VLCD25 STS
9/26 - VLCD26 157.7
9/27 - VLCD27 157.4
9/28 - VLCD28 157.2
9/29 - VLCD29 156.5
9/30 - VLCD30 156.6 (I call that STS)
10/1 - VLCD31 155.9
10/2 - VLCD32 STS with TOM staring today (good sign of things to come)!
10/3 - VLCD33 154.8
10/4 - VLCD34 154.9
10/5 - VLCD45 154.2

My scale is a snail. How lucky those people are who average .5 a day!
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:31 AM   #225
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You've done a wonderful job. And, dare I say it without offending others, probably more likely to keep the weight off.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:21 AM   #226
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Cindy (sorry, I keep forgetting to use your actual name),

I totally hear you.

I read over and over and over and over where people seem to feel they "deserve" the right to overeat now and again after a round of HCG. They ignore hunger, or they think they're listening to hunger, but what they're really listening to is appetite. The problem is those nows and agains, isn't it?

I am determined to make a lifestyle change. Just learning to cook has been HUGE for me. I couldn't boil an egg before.

Dear God, please let me keep this weight off. I have more to lose. I can't go backwards.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #227
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There is definitely a big difference between "hunger" and "appetite" for sure. For me, if I force myself to really think about it, is hunger means I will eat anything to get rid of the pain; whereas appetite means I want something in particular. "what sounds good" is a sure sign that I am not really hungry, but think it is "time" to eat or I am anticipating the taste of a good meal. Not that having tasty food can't be part of a good plan, but just being mindful of it at the same time. Finding JUDDD has helped put me in control of the appetite.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:40 PM   #228
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C'Marie I totally agree with you. But it seems many people have not quiet yet grasped the difference. Although it took me long enough! And grasping it doesn't mean you always listen to it, does it? And JUDDD has absolutely helped me with that. You really think you'll overdo it on the UD's, and you don't. At least I didn't. There was no reason to - no "all or nothing" "now or never" mentality.

I have never been a yo-yo'er, as I really didn't even try to lose this weight until now. I desperately don't want to become one. I suspect that every time you re-gain, you become just that much more likely to do it again. I am petrified. Hopefully fear will help me.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:52 PM   #229
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You aren't going to be a yoyo dieter Buttah. You truly understand our JUDDD slogan that 'hunger is not an emergency'.

You have the understanding to make this your once and forever. I am confident for you.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:31 PM   #230
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I agree with Cindy. You're going to do great. But being aware of possible issues is very smart, and planning ahead on how to handle things is helpful to all of us. It's good to discuss it and be open with each other
That's how we learn how to do better and how to get up again when we do falter. Whichever plan we're on, we all have that in common. None of us are perfect, and we are here to help each other and that's why I love this board.

Last edited by C'Marie; 10-05-2012 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:53 AM   #231
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WOE: peri-meno "corrective" R4
Start Date: LowCal/Dukan/JUDD 2/12-8/12, then 3 rounds rxHCG
8/30 - 169.5 LOAD DAY 1
8/31 - ??? LOAD DAY 2
9/01 - VLCD1 172.8 +3.3 after loading
9/02 - VLCD2 169.5 -3.3 (lost all of loading)
9/03 - VLCD3 167.1 -2.4 (-5.7 from load w)
9/04 - VLCD4 165.8 -1.3 (-6 from load w, 3.7 from pre-load)
9/05 - VLCD5 165.1 -0.7 (-4.4 from pre-load)
9/06 - VLCD6 164.1 -1.0 (-5.4 from pre-load)
9/07 - VLCD7 164.0 -0.1 (-5.5 from pre-load) (injected 125iu)
9/08 - VLCD8 163.0 -1.0 (-6.5 from pre-load)
9/09 - VLCD9 163.? (can't remember, possibly up .4 or STS)
9/10 - VLCD10 163 (back to 150iu, better day hunger wise)
9/11 - VLCD11 162.8 -0.2
9/12 - VLCD12 161.4 -1.4 (SM tea helped)
9/13 - VLCD13 161.4 STS (predicted post-SM tea "stall")
9/14 - VLCD14 STS is my guess
9/15 - VLCD15 160.7 -0.7
9/16 - VLCD16 160.3 -0.4
9/17 - VLCD17 160.0
9/18 - VLCD18 160.0
9/19 - VLCD19 159.0
9/20 - VLCD20 159.3
9/21 - VLCD21 158.4
9/22 - VLCD22 STS
9/23 - VLCD23 STS
9/24 - VLCD24 STS
9/25 - VLCD25 STS
9/26 - VLCD26 157.7
9/27 - VLCD27 157.4
9/28 - VLCD28 157.2
9/29 - VLCD29 156.5
9/30 - VLCD30 156.6 (I call that STS)
10/1 - VLCD31 155.9
10/2 - VLCD32 STS with TOM staring today (good sign of things to come)!
10/3 - VLCD33 154.8
10/4 - VLCD34 154.9
10/5 - VLCD35 154.2
10/6 - VLCD36 154.6

Hmmmm. Today is Saturday, and next Thursday is supposed to be my last injection day (although they'll probably give me enough syringes to go to next Saturday.) Just under two pounds loss this week, unless a "miracle" happens in the bathroom this morning. I may throw in the towel and go to P3 before Thursday. If I finish the last week, will I even lose another pound? That is the question.
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:25 AM   #232
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Buttah it seems to me like your body is resisting letting go of more weight. It may be time to call it I think. How has your huger been? Your body may be afraid to let go or burn the calories bc you've been doing this for a while?!

If you do another week you could possibly drop another lb or two so if those numbers are really important than go for it but if not - I'd say call it.

Have you taken measurements? How are
You doing with inches? Clothing fit
Differently? I came to realize that my last round although I didn't lose much in the pounds deparment - that round was all about the inches for me!!
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:44 PM   #233
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My measurements have improved quite a bit. Don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but very happy with them. I have also lost 5% body fat since starting. In fact, this morning, though my weight hardly changed at all, I went down almost a whole percentage of body fat. Something many of the "daily scale addicts" never seem to consider. I also ate a bunch of cucumbers late last night, which where probably still in my stomach this morning. Another thing "daily scale addicts" love to discount. The food and liquids in your body have weight, and in the case of carbs, can even make your body retain water weight. It is not "your" weight.

Which brings to a PM I received late last night after leaving the P3 discussion probably forever. But I want to share it here, anonymously but with that person's permission, because I think this person is so right on the money. And I can't thank them enough.


Quote:
So I was just reading over in the P3/P4 thread and wanted to write you.

I'm sorry you're getting kind of picked on. I fully agree with you on all the things you're writing. And usually I find myself wishing I had the guts to say it.

I tried participating in those threads for a while. But I found out quickly that the WLA way just doesn't really fly. I felt so excited by what was happening to me and I just wanted to share it with others. I want it to be this easy for everyone! But most of the time I was completely ignored. At most I would get a comment like, "I'm glad it's working for you but for ME it juts won't work."

I don't fully understand the resistance but here is what I suspect. Many people on this board have some sort of eating addiction. They find this plan and replace their addiction to overeating with an addiction to obsessively controlling and over-analyzing everything they eat.

It's unfortunate, because they are making it so hard on themselves.

Anyhow, just wanted to send you some support and virtual love!

Take care!
I fully agree about the "eating addiction" transference to "obsessively controlling and over-analyzing everything they eat" phenomenon. I would add weighing, or not so much weighing, but interpreting daily weight as more than what it really is, to the new addiction... as in "I had a [fill in the blank] yesterday, and today I'm UP [fill in the blank fraction] of a pound! Oh no! Better not eat THAT again!" In fact, I think I noticed this long before I even decided to take HCG. The fact that it's women doing this, women whose bodies are virtual oceans of fluids that change tide with every turn of the moon, well, I just have to learn to smile.

I hereby vow never to become one of these people. I hereby vow to maintain my sanity and common sense about my body, food and the daily scale. (The weekly or monthly scale is another matter, and again, I thank JUDDD for teaching me that neither "down" nor "straight" are always perfectly straight lines.

My vow will probably mean coming here for support more than anywhere else. So I thank everyone who is reading my journal, whether you're posting in it or not.

And I thank the person who PM'ed me last night from the bottom of my heart.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:58 PM   #234
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Anyway, Reddy, I'm going to hang in for a few more days and see how I feel. The clinic said if I have to add a little protein again, go ahead. So we'll see.

Oh, and the weekly report!

By week:

Week one (includes 3.3 loading): -9.8
Week two: -2.3
Week three: -2.3
Week four: -1.9
Week five: -1.9

If week six could just be slightly over 2 lbs it might be worth it. If this weak feeling goes away. Did I mention I feel weak?
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:00 PM   #235
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What a caring post from the anonymous HCG friend.

You are going to be fine Buttah. You have it worked out.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:04 PM   #236
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I am so happy for you buttah! You have done an amazing job with the protocol. I think you should just go with the hunger scale in P3.

Had to come in and give you a

As for the hunger scale, I am trying to keep that in mind while on UD. If I truly abide by the hunger scale, I will not be able to eat my 1700 cal for UD. Unless I add wine or eat out. If I eat out, I will go above the 1700 calories.

I think I may be one of those people thaT you speak of. With the scale. I refuse wine while in weight loss mode because it causes the bump in the scale. Yes, JUDDD, works. I am forever a JUDDDer. But it is slow. Much slower than hcg. The great thing with JUDDD for me is there is never any regrets. I just keep on JUDDDing. JUDDD allows and even assists me in correcting from an Up Up and away. I am thankful to not have many of these UUAD, because I am truly wanting to get to goal. More than anything, I just want to make it to my goal weight.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:06 PM   #237
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IF you feel weak, you definitely should up your protein. IMHO.

Edited to add: Also something that has helped me with energy/weakness is a lemon/salt/stevia drink. I take half the juice of lemon, some celtic or himalyan salt, like 1/4 tsp, and a few drops of stevia in a big glass of water - tastes to me like a salty lemon margarita without the booze it really helps me out. If you can handle salt in your body without it causing a bp problem or something - although I've heard people say that the celtic and himalayan doesn't do that like regular salt. Just an idea for weakness. Oh, and potassium..... if you don't have potassium supplements, you can put vinegar in water and stevia? I think that's what I've read.

Last edited by C'Marie; 10-06-2012 at 03:14 PM..
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:11 PM   #238
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Sunday, I never had all my UD calories because I wasn't hungry enough for them. And it worked just fine. I think many JUDDDers haven't read Dr. J's book and think they have to "get more calories in" when he never says any such thing in the book. If I return to JUDDD and I'm hungrier, as I expect to be if all the leptin research proves true, I will have them.

I do know that I LOVE my JUDDD DD number for "maintenance," around 800. I can totally do that.

But we'll see. I haven't decided anything about P3 yet, except that I WILL stabilize. I have to.

And I don't think you're "one of the people" I'm talking about at all! (Even though wine does make us hold water.)
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:30 PM   #239
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@Buttah, I did read Johnson's book (on kindle) and I am curious as to yours, Sundays, and Kissa's take on something. I understand that we aren't supposed to "force" our UD calories, but isn't the "spread" between a DD and an UD supposed to be around 1000 calories? For me, that means if I do maintenance DD @600-800 then my UD should be 1600-1800. Right? I do know I don't have to gorge myself, but hardee har har I never have a problem getting in at least 1600.... all I have to do is eat a few more nuts and I'm good. Or wine and a stick of cheese I love JUDDD! I can even have wine on maintenance even on a DD!
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:34 PM   #240
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Kissa and Sunday may disagree, but if you look at my JUDDD numbers in the July and August threads, my "spread" was never that great (I don't remember exactly), and I still did fantastic (I think). I couldn't get my DD's below 500 with rare exception, and I couldn't get my UD's past 1600, with rare exception. As I wrote over and over again in JUDDD-land, I refuse to eat when not hungry or try to "get in" calories. Eating past hunger or eating until full or stuffed was a habit I worked very hard to overcome (for the most part - I still slip now and again) years ago when I did a HS type program and kept the weight off for years... and will NOT go back on.

And beyond the weight loss, my blood work results were phenomenal. My doctor is still talking about it. I'm sure she's preaching IF to everyone now.

Last edited by buttah; 10-06-2012 at 03:38 PM..
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