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Old 09-01-2012, 08:14 PM   #31
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I had a hard time finding the grissinis in the store. At my Kroger they were in the aisle with the spaghetti sauce, on a top shelf, on their side so you couldn't even see a picture! But they were there! I found them once at Walmart, too. But those were super skinny ones and I never knew how many to eat.
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:26 AM   #32
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Woke up feeling shaky and in need of substance - like protein or fat. And a headache coming. I spent a lot of time last night researching doses, and it's definitely too soon to know if mine needs adjusting.

But here's the thing. My clinic, chosen because the doctor seemed completely normal and reputable (when many others in my area that I found online featured doctors I did not feel comfortable with) and because they do NOT change the protocol or make it 1000 calories or any of that stuff... turns out does not usually adjust doses. When I asked, they said they adjust the food intake if need be, but that they have had the best success with my dose (150iu) from their particular supplier, that most people can't even eat the 500 calories, blah blah. So I shudder to think of the call where I ask them to adjust the dose and they tell me to eat more. Which from everything I've read... seems wrong.

Still, I know it's too soon to tell. Even P & I said the first couple days can be tough, even with proper loading.

Had half a grapefruit. Almost ate the skin. Drinking my coffee now, and considering my first piece of Melba. But man, it's tiny. About two inches. Did I buy the right stuff? Please talk to me about Wasa as a sub - is it bigger? Verbqueen, how to figure the equivalent, etc. in allowing it?

Now for the important stuff (she said, pretending that her headache, hunger and that shaky feeling are totally unimportant)...

I always weigh less after coffee/bathroom. I doubt there will BE bathroom today, though, but I'm waiting until after coffee to post. I weighed before coffee, just in case... 170. So 2.8 loading lbs down. I'm happy with that! But my starting weight is after coffee, so apples to apples (don't talk about apples I don't even like apples and I hate one yesterday and I'm pretty sure it made me hungrier), we'll see.
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:24 AM   #33
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My first round I was hungry for 4-5 days and I was thinking all the things your thinking. Try not to think yourself to death! I was so scared this thing wasn't going to work for me. But it did. And it will for you, too!

I get terrible headaches from the detox. I hope yours is mild and passes quickly.

I think it sounds like you're going to a good doctor. I've been on 150 for a week and I'm doing ok with it. I was really nervous when they upped my dose. And I even questioned about it because everyone online says 125. I told them that and they said they start everyone at 130 and go from there. They have found, through experience, that 150 works really well for a lot of people. This is the doctor that I normally go to. He is an integrative medicine doctor and he's fantastic. People come from all over to see him. All that to say that I really believe in him and he has me on 150.

We shall see! You and I may be the only people on 150, but we're still going to rock this thing!
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:32 AM   #34
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Thank you so much, Christy!

It wouldn't surprise me if the dose I need is different from the masses (as in 150).

When I have to take vicodin or fiornal for my migraines (when they're really bad and non-narcotic stuff doesn't help), it "should" take either 20 to 30 minutes to kick in. It often takes up to 3 hours. A result of a very slow, messed up metabolism, probably.

Also, I cannot eat what should be a normal amount of calories and maintain or lose. Just prior to JUDDD, my losing calories had to be under 1100 (and even then I was losing very slowly) maintenance under 1400! I think JUDDD fixed this a little bit, but I wasn't on it that long (July 22 - loading, 3/4 days ago).

So, we'll see. The coffee and grapefruit did help. I think I can write now. And if need be, I'll have my lunch early.

Your assurance helps me so much!
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:56 AM   #35
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Official VLCD2 weigh-in: 169.5 Loading weight is shed. Thanks to the unexpected bathroom fairy visit (the grapefruit helped?)!
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:25 AM   #36
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Guys, what does Robin say in WLA about eating lunch really early if you're extremely hungry? (I'm almost too hungry to read.) I worry this will just make waiting for dinner even harder, but I'm concerned. Just doesn't seem like the HCG is taking calories/energy from stored fat yet!
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:57 AM   #37
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Okay, lunch consumed (curry chicken and cabbage - eating a lot of cabbage, but I need something filling and "bulky looking" at this point, so my asparagus spears go un-touched), feeling much better.

Glad I saved the idea of tomato sauce for something in my dinner. Can someone please tell me HOW MUCH tomato sauce (no sugar added) is typically allowed?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm sure I'll taper off soon.
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Old 09-02-2012, 03:06 PM   #38
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I usually only eat 1 tomato a day on my VLCD's. I found that when I ate a fruit as well, it took me out of ketosis. I also found that when I cut out tomatoes all together, I went into deeper ketosis.

I would try to keep it under 1 cup.
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:12 PM   #39
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I never seem to go into ketosis - even when I ate no carbs for a week a while back. And wouldn't the fruit take you out, anyway? Perhaps I don't understand ketosis!
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:43 PM   #40
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I never seem to go into ketosis - even when I ate no carbs for a week a while back. And wouldn't the fruit take you out, anyway? Perhaps I don't understand ketosis!
Well I believe you can have 1 fruit a day on protocol unless you have a tomato. Then no fruit.

It's the sugars that do it, because they're carbohydrates. Can you get some Keto strips at the pharmacy? It tests your urine to see if you're in ketosis and how far.
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:52 PM   #41
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nope, protocol is two fruits a day. An apple, a half grapefruit, five strawberries, an orange all equal one fruit. Simeon's counted tomato as a vegetable, although many people count it as a fruit if they're already having their vegetable.

And I have the strips. That's how I know I never seem to get into ketosis. Seriously, I ate all protein (not even veggies) for a week once (maybe had a piece of celery). No ketosis according to my brand new strips. Although, technically Simeon's doesn't mention ketosis. And with two fruits and two breadsticks, I still don't get how it's possible. Unless it's just the low calories. I've read that can bring ketosis as well, but I'm not sure.

Last edited by buttah; 09-02-2012 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:59 PM   #42
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Right.

That's weird though. Strict protocol sends me right into ketosis.
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:34 PM   #43
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Have you tried cutting out the Melba? I never eat it.

Also, I know this is your journal and you're not necessarily looking for advice, but there's a reason the protein is restricted. When you add in extra protein, your body turns it into glucose (sugar) and uses that instead of your fat stores, effectively taking you out of ketosis. Like you said, you're not following strict protocol, but protocol does say to NOT use extra protein. Ideally, your hunger should be being controlled via the HCG, not extra food.

If the way you're doing it right now is working, then carry on. I just wanted to mention that because sometimes it's the little things right?
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:23 PM   #44
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No worries. But you did say "when you add in extra protein, your body turns it into glucose (sugar) and uses that instead of your fat stores, effectively taking you out of ketosis."

Which, while it may be a deviation from protocol, goes against everything I've ever read about protein and glucose/sugar and ketosis itself. And again, HCG is not actually a ketosis diet, even though some people may be in ketosis (not all are). I felt the need to point that out, being the OCD gal that I am. I didn't mean to offend you.

And yes, I had one extra once of protein. I did it knowingly, as I said, admittedly breaking the protocol to a slight degree, while experiencing very difficult hunger that most people say is not normal. I announced it as a deviation, albeit a very small one. One could have beef for his/her protein every day, and be doing the same exact thing. (My clinic, btw, tells people who believe they're "starving" in the early days to add an ounce of protein.)

I'll see what happens.

I don't want to argue either, and I know you were coming from a good place. I just want to keep track of what I'm feeling and doing. And if I can't be honest here, where can I? As you can see, when I have questions, I'm one to ask them. But I had already eaten that ounce, and I wasn't asking. And it wasn't really true that "I don't know anything." It was rhetorical outburst. I do know some things. Not many, but some.

Forgive me if I offended you here.

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Old 09-02-2012, 07:35 PM   #45
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My first round I was hungry for 4-5 days and I was thinking all the things your thinking. Try not to think yourself to death! I was so scared this thing wasn't going to work for me. But it did. And it will for you, too!

I get terrible headaches from the detox. I hope yours is mild and passes quickly.

I think it sounds like you're going to a good doctor. I've been on 150 for a week and I'm doing ok with it. I was really nervous when they upped my dose. And I even questioned about it because everyone online says 125. I told them that and they said they start everyone at 130 and go from there. They have found, through experience, that 150 works really well for a lot of people. This is the doctor that I normally go to. He is an integrative medicine doctor and he's fantastic. People come from all over to see him. All that to say that I really believe in him and he has me on 150.

We shall see! You and I may be the only people on 150, but we're still going to rock this thing!
Christy, how many rounds have you done? What were your losses? How was P3/P4? And what city is this wonderful doctor in? Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:43 PM   #46
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Forgive me if I offended you here.
Not at all! We're all learning here.
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:12 PM   #47
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Christy, how many rounds have you done? What were your losses? How was P3/P4? And what city is this wonderful doctor in? Thanks in advance.
I am a little over a week into my second round. My first round I lost 22 pounds in 26 days (23 VLCD days). Doctor cut that round short because I was starting to lose lean mass.

This round I'm going to skip a dose once a week, like Dr. S talks about for lengthening a round. Hoping that will allow me to go a bit longer. I need so many rounds, and have to wait to long in between, that I want to maximize them! So far this round I've lost 10 pounds if you include load gain, 5 pounds if you don't. Since TOM is here, I'm ok with it. I think tomorrow should be a good loss (hoping!) cause I've been in the bathroom all day!

P3 and P4 were like a dream to me! Honestly, it felt like a miracle! I didn't eat any sugars or starches for the 3 weeks of P3, but beyond that I ate what I wanted, but only when I was hungry. In P4 after a few days I decided to give it a go and I ate all sorts of foods that I normally would have considered "bad". Movie popcorn, french fries you name it. But, again, I followed the hunger scale and only ate when I was hungry and stopped before I was full. I didn't have to do a single correction day. My weight stayed right in the window and I even lost more fat. And I lost more inches as well.

I truly want it to go this way for everyone! And all I can say is stick to protocol like glue! When in doubt go to Pounds and Inches. There are so many crazy ideas all over the internet, that have nothing to do with how this plan was created. They may work for some, but what I have seen in reading tons of blogs and journals and watching tons of You Tube stories is that it catches up with most people. In the end it's just not worth it.

My ultimate goal is to do this once and do it right so I never have to do it again! I hope the same for you!

My doc told me that if I was struggling with hunger as much as I was the last time I could add extra protein for the first couple of days. I believe Robin advises one of her patients in a video to add more if they were hungry. That said, doing anything off protocol makes me a bit nervous so I didn't.

Anxious to hear how your weigh-in goes tomorrow!!

It WILL get better and you'll be smooth sailing!!



My doc is in Indianapolis. And he is fantastic. I have a lot of health issues (thyroid, adrenal, etc. that he has been helping me work through).
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:56 PM   #48
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Christy, I love hearing all this.

And I took a sneak peek at the scale tonight (the one "Robin thing" I am not ready to take on is not weighing!), and I'm not going to post what I saw, but let's just say... I think I'll be just fine in the morning.

Did you do 150iu on your first round? Do you skip the melba/bread stick? I can't remember if you mentioned that.
Congrats on your loss so far!!!

I think a lot of my struggles yesterday and today were TOM, days 1 and 2 of both TOM and VLCD! We will see.

Last edited by buttah; 09-02-2012 at 09:04 PM.. Reason: peek, not peak!!!
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #49
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Christy, I love hearing all this.

And I took a sneak peek at the scale tonight (the one "Robin thing" I am not ready to take on is not weighing!), and I'm not going to post what I saw, but let's just say... I think I'll be just fine in the morning.

Did you do 150iu on your first round? Do you skip the melba/bread stick? I can't remember if you mentioned that.
Congrats on your loss so far!!!

I think a lot of my struggles yesterday and today were TOM, days 1 and 2 of both TOM and VLCD! We will see.
You're going to be great on weigh-ins! I'm with you on the weighing thing. That's the one thing of hers I'm not in total agreement with.

My first round they had me on 130 for a while, then bumped it to 140. I had been gluten-free for over a year so at first I wasn't doing the breadsticks. Then my doctor told me I could have them so I used them for the rest of the time. And I'm using them this time, too. I end up putting them in meatballs and meatloaf as much as I eat them.

Struggling the first few days is totally normal. You'll be feeling great soon!
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:55 AM   #50
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Have to run, but I'll be back soon with some observations. Meanwhile, the important stuff:

Today is 167.1! This is a low I had only seen once in recent years, in my last week or so of JUDDD, but it didn't stick. (And it's the weight I was at when I got pregnant with son number two, so I guess you could say it's one pregnancy gain GONE), Anything lower is virgin territory, so I'm psyched.

Pre-loading was 169.5
Loading took me to 172.8
Yesterday was back to 169.5

So, unless all my loading was water, the HCG is causing me to burn something. YAY!

Hunger is a teeny bit better today, I think. I'm going to try to really spread things out, and use the Melba if I have to (like soon!), have lunch early if I have to (pretty likely) My "protein trick" at dinner last night had me sleeping much more comfortably and didn't seem to hurt my weigh-in, so I may do it today as well.

More later. Happy weigh-in, Christy?

Last edited by buttah; 09-03-2012 at 09:58 AM..
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:00 PM   #51
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Just had my lunch, and wasn't about to pass out while cooking it for the first time. 3.5 oz tilapia and about 4.5 oz of spinach. Making note that 3.5 oz of tilapia is only 92 calories (Very intrigued by HCGchica's method, which would've had me eating more tilapia since it's a low cal protein. As I said, I followed her method last night for dinner because of severe hunger issues, having 150 calories of the protein, and taking the rest of my calories from remaining veggies, still saying just below 500 for the day.)

But I feel SO MUCH better today. What a difference, people! Perhaps dwindling to the end of TOM, perhaps HCG "kicking in" finally. Fingers crossed the day continues this way.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:49 PM   #52
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Have to run, but I'll be back soon with some observations. Meanwhile, the important stuff:

Today is 167.1! This is a low I had only seen once in recent years, in my last week or so of JUDDD, but it didn't stick. (And it's the weight I was at when I got pregnant with son number two, so I guess you could say it's one pregnancy gain GONE), Anything lower is virgin territory, so I'm psyched.

Pre-loading was 169.5
Loading took me to 172.8
Yesterday was back to 169.5

So, unless all my loading was water, the HCG is causing me to burn something. YAY!

Hunger is a teeny bit better today, I think. I'm going to try to really spread things out, and use the Melba if I have to (like soon!), have lunch early if I have to (pretty likely) My "protein trick" at dinner last night had me sleeping much more comfortably and didn't seem to hurt my weigh-in, so I may do it today as well.

More later. Happy weigh-in, Christy?
Yeah!!! It's already burning fat!!

Glad your hunger is better! Spreading out the food does help. I bet by tomorrow or the next day hunger will be a distane memory!

I had a good weigh-in. Down 1 pound! Can't complain. Especially when I looked back through last round numbers and saw that I gained 3 days in a row during TOM. So my small losses yesterday and the day or two before don't seem so bad. And really, what other diet would have you losing 7 pounds (not including loading) in 10 days during TOM!?!?


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Just had my lunch, and wasn't about to pass out while cooking it for the first time. 3.5 oz tilapia and about 4.5 oz of spinach. Making note that 3.5 oz of tilapia is only 92 calories (Very intrigued by HCGchica's method, which would've had me eating more tilapia since it's a low cal protein. As I said, I followed her method last night for dinner because of severe hunger issues, having 150 calories of the protein, and taking the rest of my calories from remaining veggies, still saying just below 500 for the day.)

But I feel SO MUCH better today. What a difference, people! Perhaps dwindling to the end of TOM, perhaps HCG "kicking in" finally. Fingers crossed the day continues this way.
So glad you're feeling better today! I haven't watched any of HCGChica's videos, so I don't have an opinion about her method. It seems to make sense, but I always get a little nervous shaking things up too much! Certainly, splitting your protein up shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:25 PM   #53
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Christy, she is just adorable and so positive. My favorite HCG vlogger so far. An amazing attitude, very inspiring, and a lot of tips - especially now that I've caught up to her in P3. Soon, I'll watch her on her second round. It's my writing break! Highly recommend.

Yay on your weigh-in! And no other diet, to answer that question!

Hunger returned about 45 mins ago (2:30-ish), but some Genmaicha tea (my favorite in the world - it's green teat with a roasted rice flavoring, no carbs, no calories and HCG-approved by my clinic) helped. I'm going to ride it out as long as I can without having another fruit (one left) or melba (two left, but yuck, what a bore and wasted calories).

I do think it's on the way to not being an issue (hunger that is). Here's hoping.

I just finished writing for the day, and this project will be turned in soon, at which point I will be waiting for feedback, then working on it again. Hopefully by then, my hunger will be gone.

So far I'm astonished at my newfound cooking knowledge. Cooked the tilapia in lemon juice, garlic and about a tablespoon of chopped onion (clinic says if it's more onion than that, I need to count it as a veggie - otherwise it's a spice). Steamed some spinach. All a huge achievement for Betty Crock-not here.

I just took a sneak peek at the scale. I never used to do this, and I promise to stop. But after lunch, I'm still at my morning weight. That has to be a good thing. Now stop it!
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:56 PM   #54
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Christy, she is just adorable and so positive. My favorite HCG vlogger so far. An amazing attitude, very inspiring, and a lot of tips - especially now that I've caught up to her in P3. Soon, I'll watch her on her second round. It's my writing break! Highly recommend.

Yay on your weigh-in! And no other diet, to answer that question!

Hunger returned about 45 mins ago (2:30-ish), but some Genmaicha tea (my favorite in the world - it's green teat with a roasted rice flavoring, no carbs, no calories and HCG-approved by my clinic) helped. I'm going to ride it out as long as I can without having another fruit (one left) or melba (two left, but yuck, what a bore and wasted calories).

I do think it's on the way to not being an issue (hunger that is). Here's hoping.

I just finished writing for the day, and this project will be turned in soon, at which point I will be waiting for feedback, then working on it again. Hopefully by then, my hunger will be gone.

So far I'm astonished at my newfound cooking knowledge. Cooked the tilapia in lemon juice, garlic and about a tablespoon of chopped onion (clinic says if it's more onion than that, I need to count it as a veggie - otherwise it's a spice). Steamed some spinach. All a huge achievement for Betty Crock-not here.

I just took a sneak peek at the scale. I never used to do this, and I promise to stop. But after lunch, I'm still at my morning weight. That has to be a good thing. Now stop it!
I will check her videos out! You HAVE to watch hHCGCrazy. She is my favorite! I watched all of her videos and she is so cute and funny! I don't agree with the way she did the protocol necessarily, but it worked for her and she inspired me so much! She talked about another youtuber Runkman44. And I loved his videos too! Wasn't sure I would relate to a guy. But his videos are so well-done and entertaining!

I've never been a big You Tube watcher, but watching HCG people has really helped keep me motivated and inspired. Another one I like is HCG Porkchop.

What kind of writing do you do?

I peek at the scale all the time! Maybe I shouldn't, but I'm curious! I think it's only a problem if you let it affect your mood or your day. Otherwise, it's just information. . . right?
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:20 PM   #55
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hcgblondeambition is good, too.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:45 PM   #56
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LOL! You're not talking to yourself! I'm listening!

I don't totally have an answer. If I'm repeating myself here, I apologize, I forget where I type what sometimes. But last round I started to lose lean mass at 26 days. That, along with hunger coming back, is what caused my doctor to stop the round. It is possible for that to happen. It happens on almost all diets! You probably lost lean mass doing JUDDD. I wonder a lot about the people who do really long rounds of HCG (like 60+ days). I have to believe they are burning lean mass, as well.

I have Hashimoto's as well. My doc doesn't seem to think it conflicts with HCG as all we're doing is replacing the hormones I'm missing. And now that you say that about HCG Chica having Hashis, I think I HAVE watched at least one of her videos. But I like to go back to the beginning anyways.

I've heard good things about the Omron things. I don't know too much about their accuracy. Does your regular doc or clinic have a body composition scale? You could weigh there soon and later in the round. You could also compare the Omron for accuracy.

I really don't think you have to worry too much. It will be ok. When I started losing lean mass I had another sign that it was time to stop. I was hungry when I shouldn't have been. I think the most important thing to do is pay attention to your body. And I know you will. You have really set yourself up well to do this the right way. You'll know when it's time to stop.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:59 PM   #57
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I also wanted to say that if I were you I'd search for the Grissini breadsticks. They are sooo much better than melba toast!
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:03 PM   #58
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I remember you saying that you were losing lean body mass, and I think it was here.

It's disturbing that my clinic doesn't measure body fat, but it's more of satellite office of the main doc's internal medicine practice, which is about 40 minutes away in the town I grew up in. I'll see if they have it there - might be worth the drive (could be an hour in traffic).

I have no idea if my regular doc does. Kinda doubt it.

But the Omron will be here Wednesday. God bless Amazon Prime. Perhaps I will search a place that does the hydro-water-it's-called. You're lucky your doc is checking that. I may find a new regular doctor at some point, particularly if I decide to do a second round.

I had a half a Wasa cracker today, which is a substitute for Melba on some protocol versions - although not Simeon's. Shockingly, it did help a little. I compared nutritional content first - it has less of everything bad in it, and more fiber than Melba, for the same calories. (And verbqueen used them with success.) I'll hunt down the Grissini's.

I just my second fruit, an orange-sized pink grapefruit, as my hunger had returned. It helped a little. But it's 8pm. I'll just go to sleep soon. I do think it was better today, though, albeit not completely "manageable." I pray it's better yet tomorrow. I marvel that some people have no hunger even this early.

Tomorrow is only VLCD4, so I'm still in the range of days for some gnawing hunger to be normal, right?

Last edited by buttah; 09-03-2012 at 08:06 PM..
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:42 AM   #59
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Up with the roosters again. Happy weigh-in. And I decided to make a little R!P2 chart:

8/30 - 169.5 LOAD DAY 1
8/31 - ??? LOAD DAY 2 (I think I was 171-something)
9/01 - VLCD1 172.8 +3.3 after loading
9/02 - VLCD2 169.5 -3.3 (lost all of loading)
9/03 - VLCD3 167.1 -2.4 (-5.7 from post-load weight)
9/04 - VLCD4 165.8 -1.3

Two concerns.

Woke up hungry and a bit jittery, so still not positive about my dose. Then took my shot, and had some coffee. Now I feel better. Wondering if this is the norm for you guys?

Thanks to learning about it via julieboolie, I took my basal temp the past few days, and it's going down. It was around 97.3, now it's down to 96.8. Apparently good metabolism puts you between 97.8 and 98.6. Is my metabolism slowing down? (But then why would I still be losing this well, right?). My basic thyroid test has always tested normal (I think it's called TSH, and it was .35?), so doc has never tested further and has always reassured me my thyroid is fine. But I know my metabolism has sucked for years, as it takes hours for medicines to kick in with me (that should and used to take 20 mins) My doc doesn't know much about HCG.

Perhaps I will try to speak to the internist who runs the clinic I'm going through (she's based in another office). Thus far I've only met with the nurse and nutritionist who do all the leg work.

Last edited by buttah; 09-04-2012 at 07:44 AM..
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:41 AM   #60
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Well, well, well. I was very hungry for my lunch, cooked it, but...

COULDN'T FINISH IT! Or I didn't want to, I'm not sure which.

So I stuck the rest in the fridge for later. Could it be this stuff really works?!
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