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Old 01-02-2012, 04:45 PM   #421
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Extreme fatigue again this afternoon. Took the dhea this morning but no 7-keto or saw palmetto. Will take none of them tomorrow. Frustrating.

Brain fog has been gone for at least a week, maybe 2. Reading comprehension is much better. Don't know why, but I'll take every little success I can.
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:34 AM   #422
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thank you for the info, i will try and find that thread... I used to read over there but stopped.. that forum isnt very user friendly lol...

Fats are a very important part of making our sex hormones.. They are made of cholesterol..
Re: DHEA.. know that it can go to estrogen (E) and not necessarily testosterone (T). zinc helps raise T without any conversions to E but not everyones body will do so, especially as we age) Have you tried injectable T with an aromatase, rather than a cream or gel. My body doesnt absorb any creams either... like progesterone (P) cream. I had to use the oral supplementation. Patch for E and many women i know have had to use subling Trouche for T.

RT3 huge.. have you done any reading over at drlowe.com. Awesome information on RT3.. more than anything that might be key. But it's hard to get drs to give enough T3 to have that affect..
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:01 AM   #423
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thank you for the info, i will try and find that thread... I used to read over there but stopped.. that forum isnt very user friendly lol...
It's under Primal Nutrition and usually stays on the 1st page.

Quote:
Fats are a very important part of making our sex hormones.. They are made of cholesterol..
I am eating 3-4 tbsp of coconut oil plus plenty of pastured butter every day plus saturated fat in meats plus EPA/DHA.

Quote:
Re: DHEA.. know that it can go to estrogen (E) and not necessarily testosterone (T). zinc helps raise T without any conversions to E but not everyones body will do so, especially as we age) Have you tried injectable T with an aromatase, rather than a cream or gel. My body doesnt absorb any creams either... like progesterone (P) cream. I had to use the oral supplementation. Patch for E and many women i know have had to use subling Trouche for T.
DHEA can convert to estrogen and testosterone, 7-keto does not. Doc had me taking 50 mg of dhea, but I ran out and took the 7-keto I already had. Dr K recommends 100 mg of 7-keto for sleep problems, so I ordered 100 mg dhea. Just started taking it and it gives me overwhelming fatigue. Don't know if it is because it is 100 mg or because of the particular brand. It was the only one Netrition carries. Going to switch back to 7-keto until I can talk to doc.

I have read where some guys are able to get large increases in testosterone by eating primal and lifting heavy things, so that is current plan. Just ordered a kettlebell. I am usually in lower range or just below it. Testosterone cream raised t a little, so I may start that again if cannot raise through diet.

Quote:
RT3 huge.. have you done any reading over at drlowe.com. Awesome information on RT3.. more than anything that might be key. But it's hard to get drs to give enough T3 to have that affect..
Two different schools of thought on rt3. One is that you need t3 to starve the body of t4 so that no new rt3 will be made (lowe). The other is that it is a protective mechanism to keep from overloading the thyroid and the underlying cause needs to be addressed first. High or low cortisol is usually the underlying cause, and I have very low cortisol. Tried hc but that gave me extremely high blood pressure with no increase in energy level, so now I am going the nutrition and adaptogen route.

Problem might be pregnenolone. It is mother hormone to cortisol and sex hormones. and mine seems to be low. That may be the next safest and easiest way to increase cortisol and testosterone.

My goal is to be fixed enough by this summer to actually enjoy it!
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:52 AM   #424
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thing is when taking certain hormones like DHEA or Prenenolone, they dont necessaritly covert through the proper pathways, hense why its sometimes/ often better to take the 'end result'.. As we age, we lose the enzymes and abilities to do so too. I'll be 50 in may, my body is showing the hormonal breakdown lol.

you take thyroid, how much...Im not sure of my thoughts on the Rt3.. T3 doesnt raise rt3 and i seem to feel better with more T3 even when lab range shows it at the higher end.. i think i have some tissue resistance going on tho... and i do have swinging female hormones so im sure that also plays into it. Doesnt help that i diet down lean either..... so many factors.

40 supplements is over the top! Have you considered cutting that back... b complex, vit c and maybe a good vitamin/mineral support.. adrenals support and see what diet will do?
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:50 AM   #425
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thing is when taking certain hormones like DHEA or Prenenolone, they dont necessaritly covert through the proper pathways, hense why its sometimes/ often better to take the 'end result'.. As we age, we lose the enzymes and abilities to do so too. I'll be 50 in may, my body is showing the hormonal breakdown lol.
I'm going to be 63 next week. Over 30 years of feeling less than good and about 15 of feeling like crap. And age is a large part of why I take so many supplements. Some are for leaky gut, some are for cortisol, some are for cholesterol, some are for bg, some are for sleep, some are for testosterone and dhea, etc. The only prescription I am on is for blood pressure and I started that when the hc caused my bp to skyrocket.

Quote:
you take thyroid, how much...Im not sure of my thoughts on the Rt3.. T3 doesnt raise rt3 and i seem to feel better with more T3 even when lab range shows it at the higher end.. i think i have some tissue resistance going on tho... and i do have swinging female hormones so im sure that also plays into it. Doesnt help that i diet down lean either..... so many factors.
My free t3 and t4 levels are OK. I am not taking anything for thyroid. If I was, I would definitely try the t3 - no t4 approach. My problem is just that the high rt3 is blocking t3 so that I am fatigued all the time. The obvious thing is to get cortisol up and see if that causes the rt3 to come down. Problem solved if I can make that happen. This is where things like selenium, iodine, etc come in

I have only been taking adaptogens for about a month and from what I have read, it can take 3 to 18 months for them to get cortisol levels back up. I'm going to have my herbalist look over what I am taking and see what she thinks. Real sharp young woman who has been involved with herbs her entire life. She's a walking encyclopedia. She works for my doc and they are starting a compounding pharmacy for herbs which means I can probably have her make up a concoction that will have all the adaptogens in a capsule or a tea.

Quote:
40 supplements is over the top! Have you considered cutting that back... b complex, vit c and maybe a good vitamin/mineral support.. adrenals support and see what diet will do?
When you think about it, it might be possible to take the right vitamins, minerals, amino acids, herbs, etc and get the proper nutrition to get the body to produce the right level of hormones. I haven't had much luck taking hormones, so I am trying the diet and supplement approach this time.

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Old 01-03-2012, 08:12 AM   #426
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i'd personally trial some T3 if dr is willing to go with that and see if that helps. Serum levels are different than tissue levels.

all those supplements might be binding ea other.

Diet is definitely a huge priority, agree! I'd be addressing that leaky gut first tho..
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:09 PM   #427
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Someone linked to an article on aldosterone at the STTM website. Said to drink a teaspoon to tablespoon of sea salt in a glass of water. Tried it and my afternoon fatigue lifted. Strange.

I just ordered Himalayan Salt yesterday, so will just use the stuff I have until that shows up. When I was a teen, I used to finish my coke and then shake salt on the ice and eat it. Maybe my body was telling me something.

Didn't take the dhea today and fatigue was not as bad as the 2 days I took it. Might have to try it one more time just to be sure.
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:34 PM   #428
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all the drs say to use sea salt for adrenals.

MY coach recommends we LIBERALLY salt our food too with colored sea salt. I use the pink Himalayan salt too.
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:34 PM   #429
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all the drs say to use sea salt for adrenals.

MY coach recommends we LIBERALLY salt our food too with colored sea salt. I use the pink Himalayan salt too.
I have been using Morton sea salt because that's all the grocery store carried. Never noticed any difference before when using it. But today, I started getting fatigued, drank a glass of salt water and almost immediately felt better. This is the kind of fatigue where I barely have the energy to get up off the couch.

Doesn't happen very often. It's happened twice this week and I think it was the dhea both times. The only other time I remember was when I took too much blood pressure medication and my blood pressure got too low (for me).
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:51 AM   #430
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ever read 180 degree health..

There was a note on leptin resistance and T3 on the blog post 'starch lowers insulin resistance'
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:57 AM   #431
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ever read 180 degree health..

There was a note on leptin resistance and T3 on the blog post 'starch lowers insulin resistance'
There has been a discussion of it on one of the leptin reset threads. If I remember correctly, the debate ended up being was this a short term effect or was it a long term positive effect?

180 degree health looks interesting. I just ordered The Dzugan Principle: Your Blood Doesn't Lie and The Hormone Solution. I've got 3 weeks to put together my plan to sell to my doctor.

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Old 01-05-2012, 01:40 PM   #432
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Found a great organic grocery store near my doc's office. Was like a kid in a candy store with all the great stuff they had. Prices seemed to be much lower than Trader Joes.

Had my last appointment with acupuncturist today. He said he didn't recognize me from behind because I had lost so much weight. Picked up some 25 mg DHEA to see if I can handle a lower dosage. Also picked up more melatonin. Herbalist was great at answering some questions I had. Left a message for doc about pregnenolone.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:07 AM   #433
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Good week weight wise. 3 more weeks until doc appointment. Let's see if I can reach goal of 265 by then. When I restarted, I thought I could get at least to 270 and possibly 260 by doc appointment, so I set goal at 265.

Week 1 - 10 lb
Week 2 - 4 lb
Week 3 - 2 lb
Week 4 - 0 lb
Week 5 - 4 lb
Week 6 - 1 lb
Week 7 - 2 lb
Week 8 - 2 lb
Week 9 - 0 lb
Week 10 - 4 lb
Week 11 - 1 lb
Week 12 - 4 lb
-----------------
Total - - - 34 lb

271 lb - 270 is halfway to goal weight
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:19 AM   #434
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Hey Rich! i thought I would drop by your journal and see how you were doing

How long will it take to get your results back on your adrenals?

That is very interesting about sea salt. I get fatigued in the afternoon, some days to the extreme that I could fall asleep at my desk. I work at home and that makes it hard with the temptation to lie down. I've been splashing cold water on my face when that happens, but it's a temporary fix. Around 6:00 p.m., I start to feel normal again. I'm wondering about my adrenals and the 3:00 slump.

That's very interesting about the sea salt. I'm going to try that!

I also wanted to note that a few years ago I took melatonin at night and while it helped me sleep, it made my fatigue throughout the day worse. I think it really took effect for me later than normal, idk. I can't take it.

wtg on the weight loss
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:52 AM   #435
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Hey Rich! i thought I would drop by your journal and see how you were doing

How long will it take to get your results back on your adrenals?

That is very interesting about sea salt. I get fatigued in the afternoon, some days to the extreme that I could fall asleep at my desk. I work at home and that makes it hard with the temptation to lie down. I've been splashing cold water on my face when that happens, but it's a temporary fix. Around 6:00 p.m., I start to feel normal again. I'm wondering about my adrenals and the 3:00 slump.

That's very interesting about the sea salt. I'm going to try that!

I also wanted to note that a few years ago I took melatonin at night and while it helped me sleep, it made my fatigue throughout the day worse. I think it really took effect for me later than normal, idk. I can't take it.

wtg on the weight loss
If I remember right, I think it takes about 2 weeks from when I send the package back until when I get the results back. When I have a blood lab done, I usually get results in about 3 or 4 days.

The salt does seem to make a difference. You want to use good sea salt like himalayan so you get all the other micro nutrients.

If I go back 10-20 years, I had the fatigue cycle you do now. Ok in the morning, very fatigued in afternoon, and then seemed to build energy from about 5-8pm to the point I was too wired to sleep. I think if a doc had diagnosed an adrenal problem back then, it would have been much easier to address. But now I have so many years of adrenal fatigue, it will probably take a long time to recover.

I keep reading that yoga is one of the best things you can do. You might want to give that a try. Or at least a breathing program.

Good luck.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:32 AM   #436
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Thanks Rich! You described my pattern to the T! I feel good in the mornings, slump in the afternoon, and feel good at night and have to take a sleep med to sleep

Where do I buy Himalayan salt? I'm going to try it. It can't hurt.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:57 AM   #437
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Thanks Rich! You described my pattern to the T! I feel good in the mornings, slump in the afternoon, and feel good at night and have to take a sleep med to sleep

Where do I buy Himalayan salt? I'm going to try it. It can't hurt.
I bought mine on amazon, but any health food store.

This is probably what your cortisol graph looks like.



In range morning, noon, and then starts to drift higher in evening and night. All test points should be in the green area.

Cortisol should be highest in the morning and then decline over the course of the day and be lowest at bedtime.

This is close to what my graph looks like.



You need to get yours fixed before it looks like mine.

Graphs are from Rocky Mountain Analytical. Can't link since they sell labs, but needed to credit them for the graphs.

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Old 01-06-2012, 06:37 PM   #438
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Thanks for posting the graphs! I need to read through your whole thread to see what treatment you are on and read about Leptin too. I worked til 4:30 today and then fell out and slept until 8:00

I don't do this all the time, but it's been a long week. I could probably sleep a couple of hours every afternoon, but I would be fired

I just tough it out and drink lots of coffee. That's probably not good for me either, but I have to stay alert and work and also be a good mom. It's not easy some days (sigh).
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:49 PM   #439
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Based on my lab test, called doc to see if she thought I should start taking pregnenolone to try to raise cortisol level. She agreed, so I have it on order.

Something is causing my blood pressure to skyrocket again. I had to take 3 pills today when a couple of weeks ago I was down to 1 a day. So something I added in last couple of weeks is doing it.

I think it might be the dhea. Will skip it tomorrow and recheck.

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Old 01-07-2012, 03:00 AM   #440
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you can get the pink sea salt, in a sm grinder in Target too (spice section)

Pregnenolone can convert into anything it wants before it goes where it needs , like estrogen.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:43 AM   #441
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Pregnenolone can convert into anything it wants before it goes where it needs , like estrogen.
From a chart I have, it looks like it doesn't convert to estrogen directly. It would have to be converted to dhea or aldosterone first. I am in the process of charting all my labs for the last 10 years to see trends and relationships. Most of my hormones are either low or in lower part of range, so even if I get some unplanned for increases, it may not be a problem.

I posted on the leptin thread at mda and Dr K commented "Good, just make sure you take enough", so I think I am on the right track.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:48 AM   #442
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Scale was up 2 lbs. I didn't eat any more than usual, so I think it was probably from the Italian sausage I ate. First time I have eaten it. Sodium maybe.

Headache again yesterday and still have it this morning. Figured bp would be high this morning, but it is OK. High bp and headache yesterday and headache this morning. No dhea or 7-keto today. Lots of coconut oil and water today.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:57 AM   #443
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Hey Rich, have you been tested for food sensitivities? especially gluten?
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:01 PM   #444
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Hey Rich, have you been tested for food sensitivities? especially gluten?
Doc did a blood test and it came back negative, but I am gluten free and grain free for 3 months right now.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:53 AM   #445
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Can't shake this headache and bp is still high. Going to stop all supplements for 2 days, then add back in the ones I have taken for years with no problems. Then start adding others back in.

Lost 1 of the 2 lbs that I had regained.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:04 PM   #446
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Strange. I went back to bed Saturday and slept most of the day. Today, same thing. Got up at 6, laid down for nap at 10 and slept until 2. No motivation at all. Hopefully this means my body is doing some kind of correction.

Still up a lb or 2 for no reason.

No supplements today and no headache so far. I did some research on the supplements I thought might be causing the headache and I think it is most likely the 7-keto and dhea. There are some other possibilities if it's not one of those.

Also have a problem with burping that starts right after dinner. No problem all day and then like clockwork, starts around 6 pm and lasts through bedtime.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:30 PM   #447
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Headache came back about 6 pm and bp also went up. Took bp pill but still have headache.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:39 PM   #448
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I have a friend who swears by mixing cream of tartar with water for migraines. I wonder if this would help with your headache? If it's from your bp then maybe your meds need to be adjusted?
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:59 AM   #449
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I am eating exactly the same foods and same amount and scales are going in wrong direction. Up 3 lbs this week for no reason I can think of. Was really hungry last night which usually means I am about to see a big drop in weight. So I get on the scales this morning and see I am up 2 lbs.

The one change I can think of that might be responsible is I am drinking a glass of salt water in the morning, and yesterday had himalayan sea salt. So maybe this is just water retention. Will skip the salt for a couple of days and see if that is the cause.
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:03 AM   #450
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I have a friend who swears by mixing cream of tartar with water for migraines. I wonder if this would help with your headache? If it's from your bp then maybe your meds need to be adjusted?
Most headaches are hormone related. I believe one of my supplements may have either raised a hormone too high or out of balance with another hormone (more likely). Was just reading last night that often hormones need to be treated as pairs of hormones. Thanks for info. I will have to see if I have any.
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