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Old 03-17-2010, 05:56 PM   #1051
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March 17 update

2 chloraseptic - regular ones with anaesthetic - 3.75 gm sugar per = 4 carbs per drop. Had 2 drops .. have to buy sugarfree ones tomorrow if I can find them ...
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:00 PM   #1052
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Pauline. I hope you start feeling better.

Wow, your girls are growing up! It is hard to believe she will be in high school next year. I know the other day it hit me hard when someone said to me something about being a grandma. I love it but I don't feel that old!!! I feel inside like I am in my 20s or 30s but my body is saying otherwise at times. I once asked my grandma something like that and she said it is weird because your brain feels young but your body tells you otherwise. I hope that makes sense!

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Old 03-18-2010, 08:09 AM   #1053
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Originally Posted by NWLoser View Post
..... I feel inside like I am in my 20s or 30s but my body is saying otherwise at times. I once asked my grandma something like that and she said it is weird because your brain feels young but your body tells you otherwise. I hope that makes sense!
Right?! I know exactly what you mean .. especially since I have always been a very playful person .. it is weird!! lol!

March 18, 2010

OMG I am as sick as a dog - Last night I was only able to sleep from 4:30 am - 6:00 am. I just tried to nap before I head out to do my library volunteerwork with the little kids - but - no go, I couldn't nap as my throat was bothering me too much! and tonight is a course selection thing at the highschool and I have to drag both kids as dh is away until tomorrow morning. I am going to be an absolute mess by tomorrow morning - guaranteed. <sigh>
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:58 PM   #1054
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Pauline,

I'm so sorry that you are so sick.

I found this web site for you about egg substitutes.

The Cooking Inn : Egg Substitutes


My friend has specifically used this in baked goods and said it works great:
1 whole egg = 2 tbsp water and 1 tbsp oil and 2 tsp baking powder.

I hope you feel better soon!
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Old 03-20-2010, 04:37 AM   #1055
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Thank you Elizabeth!! That is very helpful!! I think that specific substitution is the one I would try for the flax muffins!!! Yay!!! Thank You!!!

March 20, 2010

I am doing much better than I was! Thank goodness because 5 girls are coming over tonight for a birthday sleepover!! let's hope I survive! lol! At least dh is home from his business trip to lend a hand!

My weight had gone down a half pound last week (woot!) but is back up again, lol! I guess I am not caring too much as most of my clothes are fitting, just a couple pairs of slim slim pants and shorts that I'd like to fit into before summer. My official letter for TOPS arrived so that I have an official TOPS goal weight - it is 131 - as they have a different "leeway" system of 7 pounds below, 3 pounds above ... anyhow I almost fear making it, because I think that some of the people there may resent it as they think I joined and didn't have to lose weight, etc. I may ask the "powers that be" to not make a big deal of it, as my goal in that group is not weightloss, but better more consistent maintenance ..

I am putting the cart before the horse as this "weightloss" is happening at a snail's pace .. I'm doing well to lose a pound a month, lol! because I do not want to restrict myself in any way ...
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:10 AM   #1056
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March 27, 2010

Things are going great -- I just had a very crazy week which thankfully is at an end! lol! This weekend will be busy, but all family stuff, for the kids, so it should be enjoyable. I saw a sign at the gym that said children ages 9-12 are allowed in the gym with direct parental supervision ... We thought it was age 10! The only other children I've seen in there are with their parents so that the parents can work out -- actually just lazing about on machines keeping other people from using them, lol! But that will be not us!!!

So my youngest is very very excited! My oldest already goes and works out with us - she does the elliptical for an hour (which is likely too much for a 14 year old - but she does not do it at too high a level - and insists on the hour .... and likes to show us her leg muscles and 2-pack abs, lol!).

The little one has had her eye on the gym since the Presidential Fitness Test in September .. we trained for her to run the mile and she did that well at school (although slower than I timed her at the track - just under a 10 minute mile! by herself!). She had trouble and could not do a single pull-up ... mind you my thinner older dd could not do it either and I probably could do only one unassisted one and that is it ..

So I scoped out the equipment .. We will try out the treadmill just at a walking pace and maybe at a slow 5 miles per hour to teach her how to be on a treadmill. The ellipticals (all 3 different kinds) have too wide a stance and would probably give her a groin pull so those are out. But the recumbent bike adjusts very far up and I think that will be perfect for the bulk of her little workout. She also is much less likely to get injured on it!

Her shoulder is bothering her so we are going to skip the assisted pullup -- we will measure her on it though because I think she is too small to use it unless I lift her up there and be her assist, lol! ... Our plan is to also grab some of the personal training stuff like the half exercise balls -- we can balance on them and throw a ball to each other, etc ...

Anyhow, I'll be making sure she has fun so she'll want to come back! She got her race shirt in the mail from the road race a few weeks ago and I am sure she will be very proud to be the only little kid in the gym with her race shirt on! lol! Funny I could never have imagined this would be me and my family ...

Reminder: Bring a small ball to play catch on the balance thingies

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Old 03-28-2010, 12:45 PM   #1057
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Pauline, I have gone back to being a lacto ovo vegetarian and am quite happy with my decision. I tried being a vegan, but I feel my body does best on animal protein - be it meat or dairy/eggs, so I am eating my dairy and eggs and feel just fine. I lacked a lot of energy as a vegan, and I feel it was because I didn't get enough high quality protein.

How in the world would one do veganism on Atkins? I don't have the new Atkins book and probably won't get it since I'm back to plain ole' calorie counting. I am very aware of the amount and type of carbs I am eating though.

How would one be a low carb vegan??? My curiosity got the best of me. Thanks Pauline!
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:32 PM   #1058
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Hey Joycelyn ... I think one would do Vegan lc the same way one would be a lowcarb lacto-ovo vegetarian .. minus the milk, and eggs and any other proteins that incorporate dairy (like Quorn, certain veggieburgers, etc.)

When I first started this in 2003, I would see posts all the time where people would ask "Can I do this as a (lacto-ovo) vegetarian?" and people who were meateaters or who had dallied with vegetarianism in the past would respond and say: "you can do it but it would be very hard" ... well, I did it anyway and it was not any harder than being a lacto-ovo vegetarian in the first place (and probably no harder than it was for anyone else starting a lc plan) ... I was giving up the same things the meateaters were, and embracing the same things the meateaters were: MY acceptable fats and proteins .... The lack of "meat" was not there for me - I hadn't had any since I was a child.

OK, all that said, it would be more difficult on vegans from the standpoint that Atkins, anyway, limits an important vegan protein source of "beans" and puts a number of the key vegan/vegetarian proteins in there as carb ladder items. I have not read the new book yet .. but plan to read it. But, as far as I am concerned, a vegan could absolutely incorporate their proteins (see list below), and Atkins is not the only lc plan.

However, I also believe a Vegan could do a vegan version of Atkins. The difference would be, how important OWL is to them, and what induction is like for them .. It *would* be difficult to do a by the book Atkins induction when essentially your only protein would be soy ... So, I personally would add in nuts and seeds, tvp (textured vegetable protein), wheat seitan, and soy foods ... so likely a Vegan induction might be as high as a 30 net carb start .. and not a "true" induction. But if induction is only a 2-week necessity anyhow .. in the scheme of things (a lifetime on Atkins, let's say), it is not really *that* big a deal imho. I, personally, am in ketosis at 40 net carbs -- not everyone is, but induction could have that same effect on some of the people..

Vegan Proteins suitable for early Atkins
(as in: 3 net carbs or lower per serving):

tempeh (read the label)
soy (black soybeans, tofu, veggie burgers, processed soy, soynut butter, soy milk, soy cheese, etc etc)
wheat seitan
tvp (textured vegetable protein)
nuts (everything but peanuts and cashews)
seeds (sunflower, hemp, flax, sesame, etc.

and a little later on OWL: add in beans

As it is, those are the proteins a vegan would eat on a high-carb woe! Supplement that with all the good fats that are vegan: olive oil, avocados, coconut oil, nut butters (mmmmm .. macadamia nuts) and so on, and there is no reason a vegan cannot do a lowcarb plan or some version of Atkins. The only place I see trouble, is at restaurants ... the same place that vegetarians run into trouble (!!!) because mostly what they offer vegetarians / vegans while out are pasta dishes ... but places do have salads, vegetarians and vegans are already used to having issues eating out, and I believe it is do-able if a person who is already a vegan **wants** to do it .....

I recently made a vegan minute-muffin with coconut oil rather than butter, no eggs .. and am still working on it -- I added too much water last time -- I am actually planning to do a vegan day a week at some point and am working up to it When I do, I will post my menu .. I know it is easy to lowcarb a particular way for a single day and not so easy to make it a longterm commitment for anyone .. but even though I have eaten vegetarian (+fish) for over 30 years, Veganism does not come naturally -- I AM used to my dairy and eggs .. especially on lc ... I think if we were used to veganism, it would come more easily and the energy thing would likely not be an issue either, you know?! It is all down to how many changes a person is trying to make at once and how palatable they are to the person .. personally, the test for me would be: can a person succeed at high carb Veganism? If yes, then I would accept that they could or could not do lowcarb Veganism, and that the two wol are incompatible together for that person ... Otherwise, you cannot be sure which is the downfall of the experiment .....
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:06 PM   #1059
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Wow Pauline - great post! - please do post your menus for your vegan days. Yeah, I can see it can definitely be done; just a bit more work. Thanks Pauline.
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:00 PM   #1060
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No problem Joycelyn .. just some things that have been rattling around in my head. I will post menus when I get around to doing it ... which could be sooner rather than later ... I am in the middle of reading The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo but I just picked up Eating Animals by Jonathon Foer from the library - so I'll probably read that next week and be so disturbed I'll jump into a vegan day a week, lol! I understand it is about factory farming. It was a talk show discussion of the book that got me thinking of doing this ...

March 31, 2010

The gym session with my 9 year old (and my 14 yo) was just awesome on Sunday! She walked on the treadmill at level 12 incline for a bit, and then did a good 10 minutes on the recumbent bike .. and then we broke out the bosu balls, and a squishy ball we brought from home .. and played catch balancing on the bosu balls for a good while -- she was good at it even with my trick shots so we squatted down and played at that level too. Fun! Then we got out exercise balls and did some balancing on them and finished off with stretches. Anyhow, she had a good time and we will probably be doing that at least once a week! Probably Friday this week! She was so proud of herself I could tell, lol! She did her cooldown walking around the cardio area with a little swagger, lol!!!

Everything else is going well! Clothes are fitting better and I will definitely be in my skinny skinnies by summertime. I think once I do get in those, I am going to re-evaluate which clothes I keep and which ones have a little too much give that allow me to gain 10 lbs before I notice ... I already have two pair of pants like that waiting downstairs to be given away and am making do with all my tight skinny pants -- because I feeeeel good and skinny and the pants downstairs give me a false sense that I am at the right weight ... but I really like to weigh 128 and so I am re-dedicating myself to staying as close to that as I can ...

I suppose this is my 2010-2011 goal, coinciding with my new membership in TOPS, to be a better maintainer! and to really truly figure out how to stop that yo-yo effect!!! LOL!!! I told my doctor that recently when I emailed him for the TOPS letter, and I am putting it in writing here, so now I really really have to do it! lol!!!
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:35 PM   #1061
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No problem Joycelyn .. just some things that have been rattling around in my head. I will post menus when I get around to doing it ... which could be sooner rather than later ... I am in the middle of reading The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo but I just picked up Eating Animals by Jonathon Foer from the library - so I'll probably read that next week and be so disturbed I'll jump into a vegan day a week, lol! I understand it is about factory farming. It was a talk show discussion of the book that got me thinking of doing this ...

March 31, 2010

The gym session with my 9 year old (and my 14 yo) was just awesome on Sunday! She walked on the treadmill at level 12 incline for a bit, and then did a good 10 minutes on the recumbent bike .. and then we broke out the bosu balls, and a squishy ball we brought from home .. and played catch balancing on the bosu balls for a good while -- she was good at it even with my trick shots so we squatted down and played at that level too. Fun! Then we got out exercise balls and did some balancing on them and finished off with stretches. Anyhow, she had a good time and we will probably be doing that at least once a week! Probably Friday this week! She was so proud of herself I could tell, lol! She did her cooldown walking around the cardio area with a little swagger, lol!!!

Everything else is going well! Clothes are fitting better and I will definitely be in my skinny skinnies by summertime. I think once I do get in those, I am going to re-evaluate which clothes I keep and which ones have a little too much give that allow me to gain 10 lbs before I notice ... I already have two pair of pants like that waiting downstairs to be given away and am making do with all my tight skinny pants -- because I feeeeel good and skinny and the pants downstairs give me a false sense that I am at the right weight ... but I really like to weigh 128 and so I am re-dedicating myself to staying as close to that as I can ...

I suppose this is my 2010-2011 goal, coinciding with my new membership in TOPS, to be a better maintainer! and to really truly figure out how to stop that yo-yo effect!!! LOL!!! I told my doctor that recently when I emailed him for the TOPS letter, and I am putting it in writing here, so now I really really have to do it! lol!!!
That's just awesome how you and your kids go to the gym together! I hope I'm that good a mom someday to my future kids. My mom tried and tried to get me to exercise with her for several years but I just flat out refused. lol One thing is for sure that my eating has completely changed and my future kids will never eat junk in my house. =) You're a great example for others on how to incorporate healthy eating with the family and make it enjoyable =)
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:08 PM   #1062
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Hi Pauline!
I just stopped by because I wanted to let you know that you are truly an inspiration! I enjoy reading your responses on the boards. I'm glad you're around to help us novice Atkins people!
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:16 PM   #1063
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That's just awesome how you and your kids go to the gym together! I hope I'm that good a mom someday to my future kids. My mom tried and tried to get me to exercise with her for several years but I just flat out refused. lol One thing is for sure that my eating has completely changed and my future kids will never eat junk in my house. =) You're a great example for others on how to incorporate healthy eating with the family and make it enjoyable =)
Thanks Crystal .. I do my best. It is one of the most important things to me that my kids won't have to struggle the way I did as a child - that they will eat and move naturally and not have to think about diet and exercise too terribly much, so that they just do it because it is fun, feels good and right ... it is one thing I *know* I can give them! (and they do get some junk ... just not a lot of it! lol! We all have to live in the real world and learn how to cope in it, is what I believe. I think I felt too restricted as a kid and that is why I was big .. sneak eating.)

You are doing such a great job yourself and are a perfect example of how a young adult can approach all this in a healthy way .. and still live their lives in a normal way. Your posts and journal entries about your choices and the way you react when something doesn't go quite right really impress me! I am really sure that someday you will be a great Mom! (lol!!! But have fun now ... you have years and years to have kids! lol!!!).

Quote:
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Hi Pauline!
I just stopped by because I wanted to let you know that you are truly an inspiration! I enjoy reading your responses on the boards. I'm glad you're around to help us novice Atkins people!
Thanks so much jupiter! I am glad when I can help ... this is all so do-able -- I was shocked when I first started out and realized that I was going to be able to do it ... it is nice to share in other people getting to that same place!!!!
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:26 PM   #1064
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Happy April Fool's Day, Pauline!

The fun has already begun in my house.
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Old 04-01-2010, 03:56 AM   #1065
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Happy April Fool's Day, Pauline!

The fun has already begun in my house.
Ah Yes! Let the games begin!!!

Clairol played the first trick on me last night ... I was supposed to be going a darker blonde .. close to brunette ... and I fear my head is dark red this morning ... ha ha ha!!!!!!!! Oh well, it's just hair!
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:12 AM   #1066
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Ah Yes! Let the games begin!!!

Clairol played the first trick on me last night ... I was supposed to be going a darker blonde .. close to brunette ... and I fear my head is dark red this morning ... ha ha ha!!!!!!!! Oh well, it's just hair!
Boy, Clairol is a sneaky one!

Hope you are having a great April Fool's Day!

That is so cool that your girls are going to the gym with you and enjoying it! I totally agree with what you wrote about your girls having some junk at times. If we restrict our children too much, they will become masters at sneak eating. I have seen it with others so my grandkids get some junk. LOL!
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:35 PM   #1067
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<- Me after Clairol got me!

Dianne -- I recently saw my little one's friend, literally grab a bag of chips meant for 7 little girls and walk around holding onto it for dear life and not letting any of the other little girls have any ... her mother swims daily and is a good runner - has done marathons, etc, but she must be just a little too outspoken of her manipulation of her dd's diet - like my mother was - I feel so bad because I can just see this little girl heading for eating disorders ...

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Old 04-01-2010, 08:40 PM   #1068
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<- Me after Clairol got me!

Dianne -- I recently saw my little one's friend, literally grab a bag of chips meant for 7 little girls and walk around holding onto it for dear life and not letting any of the other little girls have any ... her mother swims daily and is a good runner - has done marathons, etc, but she must be just a little too outspoken of her manipulation of her dd's diet - like my mother was - I feel so bad because I can just see this little girl heading for eating disorders ...
Your hair doesn't look too bad in the avatar. Maybe you will enjoy being a redhead.

I agree that the little girl is heading for eating in secret, etc. Not a good situation. I have seen it with children who are not allowed to watch TV for example and for kids not allowed candy. They crave those things and sneak them any chance they can. I think moderation is a good way to go.
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Old 04-02-2010, 06:02 AM   #1069
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I just feel unreasonably sad for children dealing with this - obviously a function of my own experience <sigh>

April 2, 2010

Over the years the weight compliments have stopped coming as people have gotten used to me like this. And that has been a relief because at a certain point it was overwhelming and made me hesitate to go see people I had not seen in a long time (guess I still feel like that some). The only times I still get that is with people I have not seen in a while, or new people to whom I've shown before pictures -- in a weightloss setting. There is a whole set of people I've met in the last 6-7 years who have no idea whatsoever that I was obese my whole life ...

But lately I have been getting a number of other kind of compliments which surprise me! The latest happened at the gym yesterday. I was working out on the pec fly / delt machine - one of the older machines not in the circuit they have. Only one other guy was in that area at all - an older man, about 65-70. He was over to the side leaning on a machine next to me.

After a few minutes, I realized that he might be waiting for me to finish up - Most people at this gym just ask, so it was not obvious at all! - so I asked him if he was waiting for the machine. He grunted an assent and so I proceeded to tell him that I had three more sets and that the machine flipped to do the delt muscles ... but before I could finish my sentence he started grunting, getting red in the face, made a gesture of dismissal and stalked off and out of the room, not having exchanged a single word with me - before I could even offer to work in sets with him or anything - I literally had about 4 minutes left on the machine!!

I was a little put off and stunned at his rudeness, when a woman popped out of an office nearby and said, "I can't believe he just did that after you were so nice and even explained to him why you had three more sets." Turns out she is a director of the fitness area - having been moved from the Swimming area. So we get to talking and I complained about the attitude of some of the older men (not all of them - I am on a first name basis with 90% of them) who have a terrible attitude toward women and women they think are young, in particular - and then I say "Sheesh, I'm 45 and do not expect to be treated like a child!"

At that, the director took a step back and exclaimed "You're 45??!! My god, I need to start working out harder!!!" Lol!!! Made my week! Next time I feel like quitting early, I'll think of that!!!!

(and a p.s. to the story, after I finished 3 more machines in that area, I went into the free weights room to do my lat pulldowns and who do I see in there? but Mr. Rudy Attitudy -- he had absolutely no reason to be so insistent / rude to me, behaving like I was holding up *his* workout when he had other machines and exercises left to do!!! He had the gall to come right up to the pulley machine and start doing pulldowns right up close to me -- I think he wanted to get into an altercation!!! lol!!! I ignored him, did my lat pulldowns, and left. What a pathetic Loser!!!!!)
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:29 AM   #1070
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Hi Pauline. I've not taken the time to look at journals in quite a while so thank you for the reminder. I've been catching up in yours first.

What have you decided to do about the hair color 'surprise'? Is it growing on you or are you planning to change it? I colored my hair for many, many years and only recently cut it all off and grew out my natural color. It's been surprising to see that my natural hair doesn't have an ounce of red in it, yet when I color my hair it always picks up a reddish hue. A friend (?) told me that she loved my natural hair as it wasn't nearly as brassy as the colored stuff. LOL... Oh well... now I know!

My gym membership expires shortly and I'm considering doing a family membership this next time. My daughter could come with me if she wanted and work on some muscle building. She doesn't really need cardio... gets plenty of that with dance. It would be nice if my husband would come with me... but he isn't a big fan of anything exercise related. Too bad since he's 100 lbs. overweight.

Congrats on the recent compliment! I had someone ask me how old I was once at dance class and when I told her 51 she said, "Oh there's hope!" Now I think she meant it as a compliment... it was really funny, anyway...
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:20 PM   #1071
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Love your hair.....and as always, your posts are very insightful.
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Old 04-03-2010, 03:36 AM   #1072
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Love your hair.

It doesn't look red to me. It looks beautiful.
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:24 AM   #1073
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Thanks Carla Mavis and Debbie! I think it is toning down some -- I'm pretty sure I'll be doing something else next time though, lol!!!!

Karla, I think getting your daughter comfortable at the gym is a really good thing - even if she is not doing the same kind of exercise as you might be doing! What we do as children and teens often we stop as adults and, if she has a familiarity with the gym, it might be less of a stretch for her to decide to start going as an adult ... that's how I feel with my girls. My youngest, who I wrote about (actually we went again yesterday), plays soccer twice a week, takes private tap dance and a street jazz class where she is very active ... but who is to say that she'll do any of this as she grows older ..

I googled it and pilates and yoga are specifically recommended for dancers to help them with flexibility, strength and form -- my ymca offers both as free classes with the gym membership . Apparently pilates was developed by dancers ... I also found this - as far as recommendation for what dancers can work on at the gym: Dance & Dancing: Dancer's Workout, outer thighs, inner thighs
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:26 AM   #1074
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Pauline, thanks for the link. I'll add it to my file. I'm always looking for new things for myself (since I dance and need strength!!!) and I love to share with Anna.

Joseph Pilates wasn't a dancer (in fact when he immigrated to the US he earned a living as a boxer) but once he and his wife opened a studio in New York many famous dancers became his clients because they could train without fear of injury. Pilates does give the long, lean muscle look a dancer needs... doesn't promote 'bulk'.

My gym is very small and doesn't offer any classes. The closest YMCA is about 40 minutes away, so we've never even looked into that. There are some great online sites that offer free pilates videos, I use this one: Ultimate Pilates Workouts » Pilates DVD | Exercise Workout Videos

But it's really hard to do a small laptop video while on the floor! So I've not found the perfect solution. I'd love to have a room in my next home that I can designate the "exercise room" and get some good stuff to workout on our own. I really want The Fluidity Bar :: A Classic Fitness Tool Re-invented for a Totally Modern Workout but I have to have some place to put it!

Glad your family has such great access to things together!
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:05 PM   #1075
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Oops NEGA ... I meant to say that many dancers do pilates, lol! Thanks! We just lucked out with the YMCA!! It is too bad you have to depend on videos, etc!!

The bar looks really cool! My dh does some of those exercises with the bands in our bedroom -- attaching them to the door -- he started using them for physical therapy but has continued on with it. We have a home gym with treadmill, stepper and universal weights but use it very seldom -- only when we cannot get out of the house due to weather or something like that.
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Old 04-04-2010, 05:45 AM   #1076
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April 4, 2010

I finished The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo yesterday. It was good, but not as amazing as reviews have made it out to be. I do plan on reading his other two books, but have a couple of books to finish before that! I just got notification that the library has the new "Atkins" book waiting for me, and I just started Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer. I totally groaned when I saw that the Atkins book had arrived, since I felt I would have to plow my way through Foer's book to get to it. Not so. I started reading it last night and I feel compelled forward with an urgency to hear what his conclusions will be. I anticipated a horrible nightmarish read, but instead it is a thoughtful and factual account that really speaks to me.

The book, Eating Animals is about factory farming but it is also about the rationalizations we make to ourselves to reconcile our feelings toward animals and our feelings toward eating animals. I see conflict in the author himself - who in different times of his life was a vegetarian and an omnivore, going back and forth - and even in this book is not necessarily advocating vegetarianism at all, but from what I have read so far (I am through half of chapter two), an honest approach to one's feelings and rationales. I suspect the book is more about the unbelievable cruelty of industrial farming practices and how we need to change what humankind is doing to animals in the name of meat-eating - not necessarily meat-eating itself ...

But going back to the vegetarian question and rationalization, this excerpt particularly resonated for me:

page 32:
"I can't count the times that upon telling someone I am vegetarian, he or she responded by pointing out an inconsistency in my lifestyle or trying to find a flaw in an argument I never made. (I have often felt that my vegetarianism matters more to such people than it does to me.)

I have often felt this way that people want to attack their own fears of the subject and make you and your ideals stand for every vegetarian or vegan outlook on life - lumping us all together as the enemy who looks down on them, when in fact it is their own conflicted feelings who are their enemy, not me. Just by the fact that I try to do SOMETHING in my life, I threaten their peace of mind with the decisions they have made ..

I know where I can do better. My biggest rationalization is that I do as much as I can do to be consistent in my beliefs and well, the book shows me that perhaps there is more I can do, and that I should not fool myself about what it does mean to occasionally eat fish with the hideous fishery practices that cull thousands of wasted catch in nets designed to catch a certain species, and with practices such as gaffing and to support the dairy and chicken farming industries -- I just shudder to think what I will be reading about them next ...

I am amazed at how this non-fiction has captured my imagination and urges me to read on, in the way my usual action-adventure-suspense books do ...

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Old 04-04-2010, 04:24 PM   #1077
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Happy Easter, Pauline.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:31 AM   #1078
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Hiya Twyla!!!!! Happy Easter!!!! Pauline

April 5, 2010

I am struck by another thought I just cannot get out of my head. I was not going to talk about the mental compromise man makes when he chooses to disregard his emotions regarding animals and eat meat -- because I think that people have the right to choose how they live their lives, I suppose -- which is something of great importance to me, personal liberty (my excuse for not going the route of Vegetarian-proselytiser).

But I am going to bring the subject up here just to say that Foer's amazing and insightful approach to that subject hit me like a ton of bricks today, after a night of sleep, when I suddenly started thinking about the mental divide -- and the amazing resistance and anger that surfaces when some folks try to hold onto some of their little lies they tell themselves about weightloss. Often people want to believe what they want to believe and no amount of science or medical data will sway them ... it is not that which strikes me, though, it is the almost-violent anger that erupts when their mental constructs are challenged.

One of the worst things you can do to a person is to tear down the artifice with which they protect themselves, and which provides the grand excuse for not reaching out beyond their comfort zone. I've seen it with exercise, with food quantity, with special little butterfly syndrome, etc etc etc. Various excuses built to defend personal preference. And believe me, I know all about it, I had to burst through that big wall I had built around myself and my obesity to get as far as *I* have.

This is not in response to anything here -- just the book, and the discomfort right now I am feeling over some of my choices ... My little happy mental construct that has left me in a place of comfort for 30 years of semi-vegetarianism is quivering a bit ...

My construct has been "I do what I can. I do as much as I can and it is a great deal more than most people." But do I really do what I can? Or, do I simply do what is most comfortable and pleasurable to me?
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:03 PM   #1079
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Tuesday April 6, 2010

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~

"The power brokers of factory farming know that their business model depends on consumers not being able to see (or hear about) what they do."

p.87, Jonathan Safran Foer Eating Animals

"Our response to the factory farm is ultimately a test of how we respond to the powerless, to the most distant, to the voiceless - it is a test of how we act when no one is forcing us to act one way or another. Consistency is not required, but engagement with the problem is."

p. 267, Jonathan Safran Foer Eating Animals


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~

It is a good book worth reading whether you eat meat or do not eat meat. He makes cases for both choices, in light of Factory Farming and the fact that if most people knew the precise conditions that exist there, the torture animals undergo before they ever meet their demise, or even during slaughter (whether they believed in eating meat or not), they would be up in arms and demand change.

Really there was a lot to think about in this book. Engagement with the problem .. I did that 30 years ago on one level, but it requires a constant engagement. My recent "engagement of the problem": I switched to "humane certified eggs" a few months ago. Then, today I bought milk from an Amish dairy producer that claims grass fed pastures, and good conditions. Years ago it struck me how on Star Trek: The Next Generation, they spoke of how they stopped the enslavement of animals in that fictional world. "Humane certified" -- does that absolve me of further responsibility for those animals? Thankfully Mr. Foer absolves me of consistency ... but I have done that now for a very long time. Maybe it is time to progress forward? baby steps.

a question.

So, anyhow .. I finished the book, Eating Animals, and am already a good few chapters into the new Atkins book - thanks to hours of dance lessons today which I had to sit through. I am liking it so far!! Don't really feel like reviewing it just yet ... maybe tomorrow! I am jonesing to get to the maintenance part and the promised vegetarian and vegan menus but am making myself read every word .. I am funny with these arbitrary rules I make for myself .. so goofy sometimes!
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:43 AM   #1080
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Wednesday April 7, 2010

I am part way through The New Atkins For A New You by Dr. Eric C. Westman, Dr. Stephen D. Phinney, and Dr. Jeff S. Volek (I will refer to it here as NANY).. just entering the OWL chapter, lol! I love love love the approach!!! and the emphasis on making it work for your particular lifestyle -- it makes Atkins available to so many more people than the original did.

Dr. Atkins may have written the original book in 1972 but I IGNORED it for 21 years because I thought of it as "Oh, that meat diet", lumping it together with Stillman's - unfortunately for me, because it was the only thing that turned around 38 years of obesity .. The *only* reason I tried it in 2003, was after a very intelligent man I have met was raving over the scientific basis behind it, and I said, "WTH! A protein is a protein is a protein" and I tried to apply it to my way of eating (no meat) and it worked - despite some of Dr. Atkins' discouraging words on vegetarianism and Atkins in Dr. Atkins 2002 updated book Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution (DANDR).

I am so impressed with the authors of NANY opening the door to anyone - no matter what their food preferences, allergies, ethnic cuisine in a way Dr. Atkins did not quite do (although I do believe he was going in that direction and would have gotten to this point as well). The new approach of NANY will likely upset the exclusionary purists on the boards here (who, in many cases, are not even following traditional Atkins accurately), but if the measure of success is how many people succeed, than this new approach is a big winner imho!!

Up until today, I referred anyone interested in Lowcarb vegetarianism to Rose Elliott The Vegetarian Low-Carb Diet, and it is still an excellent resource!! and her approach to a vegetarian or vegan lowcarb path absolutely fits into the New Atkins approach, and vice versa. I think the two books totally complement one another.

The New Atkins approach, unlike Rose Elliott, has vegetarians and vegans starting in OWL with initial net carb amounts of 30 and 40 net grams respectively. They also address the protein issue by saying that as long as one incorporates 2 different sources of plant (or other) proteins, they can do this "New Atkins". When I altered Atkins for myself (before either Rose Elliott or NANY), I did the 20 net carbs and it was tough - I am totally for both approaches -- and how nice to have a choice!

As I mentioned above, I am only through a portion of the book and so, these are just my initial thoughts! I hope to have more to record here for myself .. especially since I don't even own the book yet - it is a library copy .. Looks like I have two books to buy now: The New Atkins For A New You and Eating Animals ....
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