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#391 | |
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Major LCF Poster!
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Thank you for your support!
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I actually held this book in my hand a couple of weeks ago, but didn't buy it because I was with a friend. I wrote the title in my date book to get at a later date. Interesting that this is the book that you are writing about. Do you agree with the concept that no food is off limits? Does he address the biochemical reaction in your body when you eat the cookie or brownie or cake or does he feel that it is a mental reaction to eating the cookie that triggers the binge? The longer I low carb, the more I am seeing that my body is very sensitive to different foods. Some make me swell, some make me achy, some give me headaches. Could some make me binge? Do you agree with the not-an-addiction idea? I have to be honest and say that I find it hard to believe that it is not an addiction. I come from a long, long line of alcoholics. Learned behavior or chemically inclined? I believe that whatever the reason, I am responsible for my "treatment." I, too, don't fair too well with the 12-step program idea. It makes me want to binge. I will get this book soon. I have another pile I need to finish first. LOL I am glad that you had such a wonderful time away. I am happy for you that you were so successful!!
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I will not let my diseases define me! "Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up."-Thomas Edison "I never failed once. It just happened to be a 2000 step process"-Thomas Edison "It's never too late to be who you might have been"-George Eliot Dream it, talk it, live it. -Rose Fitzgerald Last edited by GardenGirl639; 02-27-2008 at 01:18 PM.. |
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#392 | |||
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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Fairburn states that this is not a weightloss plan. He has a chapter in the addendum dedicated to the overweight binge eaters and in it he basically tells us to pick one thing to work on -- preferably the binge eating, because there is no tried and true way to treat both obesity and B.E.D. and that most (but not all) binge eaters will fall right into the binge-restrict-binge cycle if they try to diet. At the same time he has us weigh once weekly to monitor what happens. Weirdly, I totally totally had come to the same conclusion on my own wrt binge eating and loosening up the self-imposed "rules" that were strangling me - and it worked. I just re-read "my weightloss story" from a couple of years ago and one way I jumped out of that binge-restrict-binge cycle was to start the 5 meals a day and to go up the carb ladder to see how far I could go and still lose weight ... and it worked to some degree. I found the binge-eating probably came back because I did not keep up with my life problem-solving skills and one of the most intensely stressful periods of my life just happened on me at the same time that I was coincidentally at Maintenance without a real plan for Maintenance and I basically abandoned the food structure I had succeeded with. I guess I am trying to find my own balance here. I already restrict food beyond lowcarb in that I do not eat meat or chicken and have been this way for about 30 years ... is it because I am a binge eater? I don't know. For a long time I have tried to stay away from any black or white, either with respect to my food plan, or analyzing things. I think success, as Tom Venuto would say, lies in studying everything and taking what serves you from it, casting to the side what does not work for you. Many here at LCF would disagree Quote:
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I truly believe that in my case, it is not too much permissiveness or excess that causes my binge and my obesity. Maybe there is an addiction to food where people just really like to eat a lot all the time because it's yummy ... As for binge eating, I do not enjoy the binge the way an alcoholic enjoys his drink. It is the opposite - I punish myself and it causes the binge. Inside I perceive the extreme restriction and strictures I place on myself by overdieting, harsh language and treatment of myself as being too much and the result is a binge when I cannot possibly meet those expectations. This is nothing like Alcohol or Drug addiction. I really feel that the approach of the 12-step program feeds into the harshness aspect - going from the assumption that we are "sinners" against ourselves and others, looking to be abstinent where abstinence is the goal ... just the words make me want to binge, so it makes utter utter sense to me that this is just plain wrong way to heal. I need kindness - I've spent my life with the harsh voices inside and it kept me obese and miserable. I am not addicted to food. I need it to live. |
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#393 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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Alex, Thanks so much for sharing about your experience - It is amazing how much we all have in common with the binge eating. It's so great to have folks to talk to about this ... you all have no idea how much help it is.
Yeah, I think that is part of our problem - we think it is "me being me" - but fact is we are not bad weak people, etc. That kind of thinking is part of our problem - we are convinced we are different from other people - somehow we are less. And it is not true. |
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#394 | |
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Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 3,551
Gallery: momov2boys
Stats: 2006-122/97 (unhealthy) 2013-138/130/120 *healthy*
WOE: Low Carb :)
Start Date: Original: March, 2006 Restart: April, 2013
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I totally agree with your thoughts, Pauline. I believe that everything written above is so important. |
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#395 | |
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Major LCF Poster!
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Quote:
I am not trying to be argumentative at all. I will have to read the book so that I can see it in context and then maybe I will "get it." I am very sensitive to the whole addiction thing because I grew up in an alcoholic home. I am still dealing with alcoholism with close family members. I purposely don't drink because I am scared....I have consumed some alcohol in my life. It literally takes 1/2 a drink to get me drunk. How many 1/2 drinks would it take for me to be consumed by the monster that is alcoholism? I see so much of my relationship with food as identical to some of my family members relationship with alcohol. Substance consumed in order to not deal with pain. Substance creates chemical reaction in brain. Need to consume vast amounts of substance to get the next chemical reaction in brain. Self recrimination. You know, maybe this is a problem for me because I have binged my whole entire life. I can remember hoarding cheese to eat later when I was about three. Telling someone at a church pot luck that I loved these meals because I could gorge until my stomach hurt. I was about five. And I'm sure gorging is different than bingeing, but what compels a child to consume so much food? And on and on. I don't know any other way to be. Last edited by GardenGirl639; 02-27-2008 at 05:08 PM.. |
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#396 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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Argumentative is good Elizabeth
He actually lists the similiarities - which do take into account your observations. He goes on to say that just because the disorders have similiarites, does not make them equivalent. He then explains why he believes the similiarities are superficial - whether you'll be able to buy into it or not, I don't know ... it's definitely worth a read. I do agree with him that rather than requiring us to "buckle down" and be abstinent like the 12-step programs, healing lies in a loosening of the reins, of the unattainable standards we hold ourselves to ... I guess what I am saying is that, whatever we call it, my binge eating will not be cured by additional tough standards being imposed on me -- no words of wisdom here, I just instinctively feel it would be a disaster for me. p.s. My mother tells a horrible story about when I was 3 years old and took my piggy bank over to the neighbor's house, knocked on the door and said "oink oink - the piggy's hungry" hoping to get some food from them. She thinks it's so funny. She thinks it's because they kept junk food in the house. If she only knew: it's because they would actually give me food when I played at their house and was hungry ![]() Last edited by TaDa!; 02-27-2008 at 05:37 PM.. |
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#397 | |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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I still have other stuff to share about the current book by Fairburn, but have also put on a reserve at the library a book called: Binge No More: Your Guide To Overcoming Disordered Eating by Joyce Nash c1999. It'll be interesting to see other points of view! |
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#398 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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February 27, 2008
I feel a cold coming on - sore throat and ears feel funny. I am also soooooooooo tired - between Monday night choral practice (yes, we liked sheep on Monday, Elizabeth! I thought of you guys!! lol!!!) and forcing myself to stay awake to see Biggest Loser so I could chat with my friends, I am wrecked .... time to crawl into bed with a book!!! |
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#399 | |||
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Major LCF Poster!
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for 3 year old Pauline.![]() |
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#400 | |
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Major LCF Poster!
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I hope you feel better soon. Take a nice hot cup of herb tea to bed with your book. Sleep well, my friend. |
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#401 |
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Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 3,551
Gallery: momov2boys
Stats: 2006-122/97 (unhealthy) 2013-138/130/120 *healthy*
WOE: Low Carb :)
Start Date: Original: March, 2006 Restart: April, 2013
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#402 |
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Major LCF Poster!
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I hope you are feeling better, Pauline.
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#404 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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February 28, 2008
Darn Internet was down! Looks like my call to the Cable company spurred them on to change ALL the cables on my street!!!! Boy are the squirrels going to be p'ed off!!! I'm still sick .. but much better than yesterday! Off to the gym shortly for god-awful killer strength class ![]() |
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#405 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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February 29, 2008
Wow! Yesterday and today I had some moments where I wanted to eat but knew it was binge triggers talking to me. This is so good, but at the same time, I feel concerned that any little thing immediately directs me to put something in my mouth. The minute I tell myself, "No, you are upset due to x, you are not hungry and do not need to eat," the hunger dissipates. This really is an illness. I guess I just need to remember everything I know about myself and these urges at times like that ... but it is not easy!! I wonder how much of me being good has to do with the fact that I am reading books about binge eating?! (halfway through the second book, lol!) Instances when I wanted to "eat" the past two days were triggered by: * I am sick. My throat hurts and my head is congested yet I have carried out all regular activities. * I am very tired. * I was upset that the darn internet was down after everything I went through with getting the cable guys out here last week and I had 2 very important things to check in my email before I left the house this morning -- 2 times for activities around which I needed to plan the rest of life ... ugh! Can we say "no control over situation" freaks Pauline out ... or makes her throw a temper tantrum!!!? * I saw a batch of 16 flax muffins on the counter cooling while feeling a and c. * I saw a container of brazil nuts - which I have since put in a cupboard. while feeling a and b * I don't know if this had any effect or not ... I hope not! I have lost 1 pound in the last three weeks. I have absolutely come to terms with it, considering my trip to Boston and the fact that I lost more weight than I should have before that, etc ... but you have to wonder what my sneaky little mind might be up to .. best to note it down here!! Anyhow, going strong! Feeling good and happy despite all of that above. |
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#407 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 13,505
Gallery: debbiedo
Stats: pretty close to perfect!
WOE: mindful eating/running off the pounds
Start Date: over and over again
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wow Pauline that is really a dear picture by your daughter. that is a keeper!
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#408 | ||
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Major LCF Poster!
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Quote:
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****** That picture done by your daughter is too precious! |
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#411 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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Elizabeth, Fairburn doesn't characterize it as an illness but as an ED ... I guess I think of it as an illness - as opposed to being any weakness in character, ya know what I mean??!!!
I am halfway through the second book, Binge No More: Your Guide To Overcoming Disordered Eating by Joyce Nash c1999. I think it will be more helpful than Fairburn's book Elizabeth with some of the same recommendations. It covers a wider spectrum and has some cognitive behavioral suggestions which would help a broader audience of people ... I'd suggest getting it instead of Fairburn. |
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#412 |
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Major LCF Poster!
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Can you tell that I am still a bit irritated?
![]() ![]() Ahhhh, I am understanding why I got so upset about the "addiction" thing.....In my mind, eating disorder=disease=addiction. All those words are interchangeable. Because this is the way I think/thought, I misunderstood. I thought Fairburn was saying that it was a character flaw. I thought he was using behavior modification, i.e. no food is off limits, to "cure" the character issues. No restrictions~no reason to rebel (rebellion being a character flaw)~no reason to binge. This is why I responded so strongly. I don't think that my binge eating is a character flaw at all. (I think not choosing to take responsibility might be able to be characterized as a flaw. Now, struggling to find the answer, bingeing, gaining weight while trying to figure it out...these I also don't see as character flaws.) I react sooooooo strongly to the character flaw idea. I have struggled for years and years and years. I was always a "solid" kid, but most of my weight really came on when I started puberty. PCOS reared its ugly head immediately and so my body puts on weight just by looking at food. You know how people always say, "You didn't put that weight on overnight, you shouldn't expect it to come off overnight." Well, actually, that's not true of my body. I can gain 5-7 lbs. a day! And you know what, I'm losing about 1 lb. a month now, all while being incredibly diligent. I know for a fact that much of my husband's family think that I am weak. One big character flaw. Some of my other times doing Atkins and reading these boards, I have felt that I was weak also (especially when Kimmer was around ) I want to thank you for everything you've posted. I think you are a reasonable voice in this place saying "Hey, it's not about being weak." And you've got the incredible track record to back it up!![]() Last edited by GardenGirl639; 03-01-2008 at 03:38 PM.. |
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#413 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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I think Society sees it as a character flaw and it is one you cannot hide ... you walk down the street and everyone assumes you are a lazy slob who refuses to get a grip .... our fatness reflects poorly on them if they do not immediately denounce it ...
We grow up with that and then, perfectionists that we are, we take up the cry and direct it at ourselves perpetuating the wrong and the unfairness. Fact is, we have to change how we see ourselves almost more than any other thing about us ... it is the only way to seriously be able to change our coping mechanism from one that involves food to one that involves using the powers of our mind to make us stronger. We can't depend on our minds to help us with this if our minds are back there telling us: You are weak, You'll never do this, You're lazy, Get with the program, etc. My newfound understanding of the subject. |
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#414 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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March 1, 2008
OK I am really effing sick and to compound matters I gave into temptation and took an antihistamine ... thought I'd try Claritin since it isn't as strong as benadryl and went and gave myself this mouth condition like dry mouth. Typically when I get it I cannot sleep all night without a cloth stuffed into my mouth ... nasty. Anyhow, just went to Walgreens and bought some products for the condition - we'll see. I've been absolutely miserable all day and very very binge-y. Happily I took into account the why and wherefore and have been 100% on plan. I did notice, in my new tool, the calendar I keep at my desk, that it has been about 28 days since I had the last spate of binge hunger feelings, so I am thinking it is coincidentally TOM hunger (have had a partial hysterectomy, so I do not have a foolproof way of knowing when, lol! ). Anyhow, if you add that and this newest stupid antihistamine inceident to the whole list of "binge urge" issues the other day, I have been a real superstar this week ... go me!! In the Nash book, she also recommends the whole food journaling thing in a very similiar way to Fairburn, but the next topic was new to me and really great. It saw a binge as a series of events that begins long long before the actual entry into binge ... as a chain of events that you can study and actually see at which points you did have the opportunity to stop it in its tracks. She then goes on to list methods ... the book is upstairs so I'll leave that to another post. I'm liking this book! Well I am off to bed, and if all goes well, I shall not return until tomorrow morning, if not I may be yapping to myself here all night. G'night! Pauline |
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#415 | |
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Major LCF Poster!
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I'm sorry you're still not feeling well! I hope you are able to sleep all night and even sleep in tomorrow.
Interesting idea from Nash. I know that last month when I had that crazy-want-to-binge day, which was a Tuesday, I had had an EXTREMELY stressful Monday and then Tuesday just continued it. I didn't take any time to decompress. I'm going to go reserve that book at the library right now because that sounds really, really interesting to me. Quote:
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#416 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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Elizabeth, I think you will like the book ... or at least come away with some good tools, just reading about the binge chain "intervention" opportunities has made me act on my own today. It felt like a spontaneous idea, but I am sure it is due to the reading I have been doing, lol!!!
March 2, 2008 Very Binge-y Today. Why? 1. Sick, 2. Tired, 3. TOM time and symptoms 4. dd was sick and had to take her to dr's 5. I was whoozy myself and scratched the car on a post while parking in the tight lot 6. Anticipating a full day tomorrow that I know I won't be up to However, I have just declared victory over a container of Brazil nuts (and they were not cheap). After obsessing over them all day, I finally just put them down the garbage disposal. I realized that nothing else in the house was speaking to me like that, and that all I really had to do was to put 'em down the disposal, and I'd stop all the stupid annoying thoughts. The only other thing talking to me lately is a bag of tortilla chips in the cupboard and I have decided to make the family chili and chips tomorrow night - my night out at chorus -and whatever they do not finish, I will ask dh to send down the disposal too - he'll understand and probably finish 'em off, lol! I am a little fed up with myself today - it being Sunday just makes it that much harder. I have been very binge-y today and, not surpisingly, very very much wanting to weight myself ... which is totally bizarre considering I am sick, congested, have not drank my normal amount of water, am starting to retain TOM water which I can feel in the chest. Everywhere I go, a scale seems to pop up - the doctor's office, 2 of them at my gym, etc. I think I want to weigh myself so I'll get upset and binge. Not going to do it, So There! |
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#417 |
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Major LCF Poster!
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I reserved the book from the library and hope it will be in by the end of the week. Thanks for the recommendation.
Good job putting those Brazil nuts down the disposal! I understand how hard it is to get rid of something that you "spent good money on." What a hugely successful thing you did tonight!!! I am sorry that the scales are taunting you like that! Give 'em a good kick! That'll teach them!! Hope dd feels better. ![]() |
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#418 |
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Major LCF Poster!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Western Colorado
Posts: 1,528
Gallery: Colo Alex
Stats: 297/231/<200 (6'0", 47 y.o.)
WOE: moderate carbs
Start Date: Back on track 9/7/11
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Pauline,
I am sorry you are sick and I'm sorry that the beast is acting so unkind to you right now. I am very impressed by your will power and ability to stay calm and keep in control. Hope things improve soon. ![]() |
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#419 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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March 3, 2008
Thanks Guys! I don't know if it was will power ... more a "reasoning it out" power. You have no idea the sense of relief I felt when I realized I could just dump those nuts down the disposal .. it was like discovering the earth was round or something ... why it was so difficult to come up with that as one of the many options I had while in the throes of the mental wrangling, I do not know!!!! I just hope I recall that desperate action the next time it is needed!!! lol!!!! I am feeling far better today, although still sick. My workout and the strength class had me a bit dizzy this morning, but I was glad I did complete them. I had two days total of the hungry/bingies as compared with one day a month ago as today the hunger has dissipated yet again. So, I have proven that if I can just get myself through the binge urge days, away from the food extras and illogical scale weighings, the tomorrow will usually be better ... that is a really good lesson to have learned. Kinda along the lines of my "dentist theory." For those who have not heard it: You are in the chair for a finite amount of time, so just grin and bear it because no matter how bad it might be, it will soon be over ... My poor kids get subjected to this theory a lot ![]() |
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#420 |
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Way too much time on my hands!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,301
Gallery: TaDa!
Stats: 236.5 /132.5/ 128-133 @5'3"
WOE: Atkins Maintenance (Vegetarian + Fish)
Start Date: 6/03 & Goal! 5/06
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March 4, 2008
Another good day under my belt - I had a different lunch for a change, some vegetable soup (and waaaaaay too much sodium, lol!) replacing my side of veggies. And it was good. I have been doing some research and thinking on a solution for breakfast for maintenance and may have found one that will suit me - higher calorie and carbier than what I currently have which is perfect for the morning before my workout. I will likely add it in before I get to 128 lbs. To maintain I'll need another 300-400 calories a day somewhere, but I can think about that after I get breakfast set .. I have been feeling hungry in the morning and know I need a boost in food there, so it is the obvious place to start (maybe in April or May) This is one of the recipes I am thinking of doing - I will double it to about 400 calories: No Bake Protein Bar 5 tbsp natural peanut butter (chunky or smooth) 1/2 cup dry oat meal or whole grain hot cereal (uncooked) 1/2 cup oat flour (double the dry oats if you do not have oat flour) 6 scoops chocolate whey protein (approximately 132 grams worth of low-carb protein powder) 1 teaspoon vanilla 2 tablespoons flax seeds (optional) 1 cup non-fat dry milk 1/2 cup water (depending on what type of protein you use, you may need to add more) Modifications: Use vanilla protein and replace ~1/4 cup of the oatflour with a variety of nuts, seeds, or dried berries. PREPARATION: Spray an 8x8 baking dish with non-stick cooking spray. Combine dry ingredients in a medium size bowl and mix well. Add peanut butter and mix - the mixture will be crumbly and dry. Add water & vanilla. Using a wooden spoon or rubber spatula, everything until a dough forms. The dough will be sticky. Spread dough into pan using a clean wooden spoon or spatula that has been sprayed with non-stick cooking spray. Refrigerate a few hours (or freeze for an hour) and cut into 9 squares. Wrap bars individually (use sandwich bags or plastic wrap) or store in covered container between sheets of wax paper. Keep refrigerated. Nutritional Information Per Serving: 197 calories, 21 g protein, 7.2 g fat (8% saturated), 13.7 g carbohydrate, 1.6 g fiber |
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