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Old 02-18-2008, 07:13 AM   #361
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Thanks Beth And Elizabeth!

February 18, 2008 morning

I am having computer issues and the network just popped up so here I am. The guy is coming to fix it this morning ... but who knows whether it'll get fixed or not ... We live in the woods and the squirrels keep nesting in the junction box and chewing up the wires, lol!! They keep promising to change the wires ...

Anyhooo I did manage to out-tough the hungry day and yesterday was fine too. I have a sick little one at home today and it is winter break so I woke at 5 and went to the gym. It's 8:30 and I feel like I have lived a whole day already, lol!!!

Good Morning .. sorry your lil one is sick ... my kiddos have a winter break today as well.. and Friday was one also.. ..

good for you for out toughing the hungry day.. .. I wanted to thank you for all your wonderful in site in all this.. I have learned a thing or two form you.. .. now if I can "out Tough" every day..

Hope the pc gets fixed.. dern squirrels..lol
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:00 PM   #362
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Thanks Monet! The cable guys are arriving tomorrow en masse ( 3or 4 of them) to put in heavy duty squirrel resistant cable
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:08 PM   #363
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February 18, 2008

Everything seems just to be rolling along with my wol and despite those awful hungry days, I feel in control and I feel like a big part of it is that I have no set time or times to look at the scale. I look at it here and there when I feel like it, but the pressure to perform just isn't there for me. I know the weight will be gone by summertime no matter what, no matter how slow I move along, as long as I keep on this path.

I have also been thinking more and more about what specifically I will be adding to my daily (at-home) food and so far have come up with wanting 1. A bigger breakfast - just not sure what exactly (currently 210 calories, 12 net carbs ... want to move up to 400 calories), and 2. an add-in later in the day ... which I am very excited to have figured out!!! soup!!!! yay!!!

I feel so comforted by the thought of having a real plan for maintenance, a daily set menu with a few mix and match options that just takes away the chaos factor that always gets me.

I know I must be feeling good as I wore horizontal stripes today and felt very cute ... my sister once told me that "we" can't wear those stripes because it accentuates the body and makes us look wider ... I think her statement has made me seek out tight clingy striped clothing to wear on maintenance. I guess there are worse bad habits a girl could cultivate.

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Old 02-19-2008, 08:01 AM   #364
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I know the weight will be gone by summertime no matter what, no matter how slow I move along, as long as I keep on this path.
Do you think that this is true for everyone i.e. those still needing to lose weight? I wonder if I worry too much. If I just keep eating this way, journalling, not tweaking, will it just all eventually fall off, or do I need to stay hyper vigilant?

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I know I must be feeling good as I wore horizontal stripes today and felt very cute ... my sister once told me that "we" can't wear those stripes because it accentuates the body and makes us look wider ... I think her statement has made me seek out tight clingy striped clothing to wear on maintenance. I guess there are worse bad habits a girl could cultivate.
Rebel away, girl!!!

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Old 02-19-2008, 05:18 PM   #365
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Do you think that this is true for everyone i.e. those still needing to lose weight? I wonder if I worry too much. If I just keep eating this way, journalling, not tweaking, will it just all eventually fall off, or do I need to stay hyper vigilant?
I think it is true. I think it will come off without stressing on it daily, I really do. I think yes, the food journal and being prepared are still key, but I think if the whole worry about quantity of pounds lost and the dates those pounds come off are put on hold - we will still succeed and be the stronger in the end for having normalized our lives.

Doing this does not mean you never weigh yourself - you do, but you wait til things are not moving at all before you start to tweak and bother about every little thing. We have been at this for a while, we know how to lose the weight - all the emphasis on the boards on stalls, and slow weight loss - well, I am convinced the great majority of those people are not doing what they know works and are trying to somehow "cheat the system" or validate their own "cheats" somehow.

I really think letting go of the diet attitude is the way to good mental health for a binge eater ... and probably for everyone else too, lol!

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Old 02-19-2008, 05:25 PM   #366
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February 19, 2008

Well the kids are off to my folks tomorrow for a few days! and I will be trying to maintain as we go into Boston and eat out almost every meal. The lowcarb part is easy for me - the calorie level will be the issue! We will be working out every day, so at least I can count on some 5-600 calories burned everyday as usual:

Wednesday - only dinner out, calories higher than usual but will be in deficit!
Thursday - Breakfast as usual, 2 lc snacks, lunch out and dinner out
Friday - Breakfast as usual, 2 lc snacks, lunch out and dinner out
Saturday - only dinner out, calories higher than usual but will be in deficit!

or something like that ...

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Old 02-19-2008, 06:26 PM   #367
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I really think letting go of the diet attitude is the way to good mental health for a binge eater ...
I totally agree!

Have fun in Boston, Pauline.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:11 AM   #368
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Have fun in Boston.

There is a chance we may be moving there. I would not move until summer 2009 but if my husband decides taking a job offer he will be there sooner. It is a hard decision because we love it here and I don't want to leave my older sons here. Maybe they would move in time but they are grown up and have their own lives. The job is perfect for my husband the money amazing. I lived in Boston many years ago (26plus). Who knows. We were saying no way before but it is the kind of opportunity that would be hard to turn down.

As for dieting or eating. I am managing to live without a diet and eating as healthy as I can. Exercise and healthy choices are the key for me. I fear gaining weight back. I do when I don't watch every bite but I am trying not scrutinize every bite. I will eat anything but try to do it in moderation. I have done this before and gained so I do worry but I set a goal to find the happy medium where I can maintain. Yes, I would like to see the scale down some but I look great and the scale is just a number.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:19 AM   #369
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I look great and the scale is just a number.

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Old 02-20-2008, 12:23 PM   #370
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Hope you have a great time with your husband and you come back feeling rested, relaxed, and rejuvenated!!
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:51 PM   #371
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Thanks all! I think we will have fun!!

Deb, Boston is great for road racing - tons and tons and tons of events ... of course it is much colder, as you know than Maryland! And Hospitals galore for someone with your talents
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:53 PM   #372
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I hate the idea of moving and don't even know what suburbs are good for 50 year old empty nesters who want to down size.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:18 PM   #373
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Just stoppin by to say....
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:25 AM   #374
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Hi Deb! Hi Monet!

Deb - There are lots of great places DH and I would live in a heartbeat! Thing is, it all depends on how much money you have to spend, where your dh will be commuting and what you like to do. Newton has a great Jewish community, has a nice little downtown, is on the commuter rail into Boston, etc. Very expensive. Actually my aunt is a realtor there.

If dh and I had unlimited money to spend we'd buy a brownstone right in town in Back Bay in a heartbeat, or Cambridge, or Beacon Hill ... I used to love love love running along the Charles River with all the hundreds of other people!!!

All of those places are almost in Boston proper. Then there are the real burbs. If I can give you any info, let me know.

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Old 02-21-2008, 06:26 AM   #375
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February 21 and 22, 2008

Off to the gym and into Boston! I may be able to check in over the weekend. Have a great few days everyone!! My book arrived, Overcoming Binge Eating and I cannot put it down. Some good information so far .. maybe I'll sahre some of it next week.
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Old 02-21-2008, 12:52 PM   #376
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Pauline have a great time with dh ! Relax and take care of yourself. It is always nice to have some time away from the kids to take care of yourselves. I will be waiting to hear about the book.
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:22 PM   #377
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February 24, 2008

Well, we had a really great time in Boston and I did so well with food! Brought my own breakfast and snacks and simply ate well at lunch and dinner - along with the flax muffins I carried for snack, I also carried a package of lc pita in case I had to de-construct a sandwich ... eating out lc vegetarian is not as "easy" as just regular 'ol lc (which isn't so easy either, lol!). We also worked out at a branch of our gym - I am lucky dh is into fitness. He was when he was a young man - long before I met him - we married as fellow chubs and as I got thinner and fitter, he kinda tagged along and also got back into team sports, running, and going to the gym. So, I guess I am really lucky in that as our preferences tend to complement one another.

I did drink way too much one night when we went to our old hangout - where we met originally eighteen years ago, but it wasn't sugary drinks or carby beers, so all in all, it was a very successful trip for me! and fun!

I could not put down the book on binge eating. It is kind of amazing to me, but apparently I have done a lot of the steps that the author recommends for self-treatment - and they are the things I have noticed as helpful in combating the binge urges. It really was very self-validating and makes me feel even stronger and more sure on my path and on the additional things I am planning to do (beyond those I will be adopting from the book). More on that later.

Overcoming Binge Eating by Dr. Christopher G. Fairburn

The first half of the book reads like a typical social science textbook with research and medical studies noted to back up various assertions. If you do not mind professor-ese too much, you will get through it. I know as a binge eater I am so desperate for any relief I can get, that I just plowed right through it. The whole point of this first half is to define binge eating and bulimia nervosa, and to distinguish them from overeating. Also, to bolster the author's assertion that certain methods work better than others in combating binge eating.

Along the way, he basically shoots down the theory that binge eating is some type of Addiction and should be treated in the same way as alcohol and drug addiction through the 12-step process. This was particularly interesting to me as I did attend an Overeaters Anonymous meeting in my quest for some relief and was very put off by the whole approach. Dr. Fairburn states that Binge Eating is characterized by a person's attempt to exercise too much control over food by things like strict dieting and this leads to a cycle of binge - restrict or binge - purge which is nearly the opposite of drug and alcohol addiction. The binge eater desperately wants to stop and their attempts to stop backfire psychologically. On the other hand alcohol and drug addicts exercise a lack of restraint or control - they simply are not comparable. I think I personally felt that the approach and the meeting was about "how bad" I am and have been and I knew instinctively that part of my problem was that thinking - that it was not going to be a place of healing for me.

By the end of the first half, Fairburn has come up with a preferred set of methods for treatment of binge eating and bulimia, where if Step 1 does not help, or further help is required, you move on to step 2 and so on. He believes that many many people can find relief with a self-guided program where you act as your own therapist without further intervention or professional help!! Key to this, however, is that the person must feel a motivation to make a change.

Preferred Methods of Treatment

Step 1: Unsupervised Self-Help

Step 2: Guided Self-Help

Step 3: Cognitive Behavior Therapy

Step 4: Further Treatments Through a Therapist
(such as: focal psychotherapy, antidepressants, partial or full hospitalization - the specifics to be determined by the professional you are working with.)

The whole next half of the book is entitled "A Self-Help Program For Those Who Binge." When I have time I will put some of the key points to paper, along with my own thoughts on how to incorporate the steps for me - as I have already been doing much of it (yay me! binge-free for nearly two months). I have to say a lot of his thoughts and strategies are things I have seen many of us discuss in different forms - the value here is that he puts it all together and explains how it makes sense to a binge-eater or someone with bulimia - how and why it will help if you practice these methods.

I'll stop here, but will say, if you are pretty sure you are a binge eater, or have Bulimia, this is a good book to read if you can get hold of a copy at your library or can pick it up online.
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Old 02-24-2008, 06:27 PM   #378
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Welcome back, Pauline!
I'm glad you had a nice time in Boston.

Thanks for posting about your current reading.

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The whole point of this first half is to define binge eating and bulimia nervosa, and to distinguish them from overeating.
Can you share how, exactly, the author differentiates a binge from overeating?

Thanks for your helpful posts!
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:12 AM   #379
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From the book: Central to Binge Eating (Binge Eating Disorder) is lack of control:

* Very large quantity of food in a small discrete period of time. Characterized by agitation and rapid eating - much faster than normal eating, barely chewing, with an "air of desperation". Some people pace or wander while eating.

* "A Feeling of Altered Consciousness": Distinct feeling of lack of control, inability to stop oneself from continuing to eat. Almost in a daze. Typical binges happen in secret.

* After overeating, a person will either accept what happened as an indulgence, or have some regret and decide to eat a little less and get some exercise, but their "self-recrimination and compensatory behavior end there." Binge eating is characterized by "feelings of shame, disgust, anxiety and guilt with depression often setting in."

"Extreme compensatory measures" to combat fear of weight gain is what most distinguishes binge eating from other disorders.

* Men and women are more evenly affected than in Bulimia and Anorexia where the majority are women. Caucasians and African American are fairly evenly affected in BED and the age range is broader than in Bulimia and Anorexia, being from about age 20 to age 50.

* All people with BED are not overweight - that is a misconception. Only about half are overweight (as defined by being above BMI of 27 for Fairburn).

* Anorexics will also binge, in their own way, something that anyone else would perceive as a small bite to eat and this is called a "subjective binge" but is to be distinguished from a true binge.

* The media has blurred the meaning of the word by using the word "binge" to describe overeating. Overeating such as at Thanksgiving dinner when everyone overeats is not a binge. A person would have to eat much more than that for it to be described as a binge.

From me: If you are a binge eater, like I am, you would totally recognize the "altered state" described here. It is like being a zombie and being unable to stop eating (and it would not matter what the food is, I have binged on hardboiled eggs before) until your stomach physically hurt and it was nearly coming back up your throat on you .. you lie down to get some relief from the stomach pain. It's very scary.

hth

Pauline
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:49 AM   #380
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Thanks, Pauline.
It does help!
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:08 AM   #381
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I have always been a binger. It could be on Kashi Cereal in recent days or cookies when I was letting myself eat those for breakfast. I understand what a binge is. What I don't know is how to nip it in the bud. I find it hard to eat just one of something that easily could lead to a major binge. Do we not eat the one cookie or do we learn to know how to stop at one piece of chocolate or one cookie? Since I allow myself to eat all foods now I am trying to do this. I still stay away from fried foods and usually cookies. Last night I did eat one cookie after work. Why?? That is a good question. I was craving sweet? I felt like I needed it after a long hard day?? I wasn't hungry.


I think finding the reason we binge is key. For me is it boredom, reward or poor impulse control? I think the reasons vary. I know I can diet and be successful and stop eating whole groups of foods but once I let that control slip--- bam right back to my old eating habits if I am not careful. I am trying so hard right now to find a happy medium without pcking the pounds back on.

Oh yes and I do this without being a slave to the scale.

Love your post Pauline. Glad you had a great weekend.

Off to run before work here. Do I run so I can eat??? I do love to run so it isn't 100% that.
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:21 AM   #382
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Deb, what you are doing is what Fairburn recommends - to allow all foods, no foods being forbidden - I think it is step 5 or step 6 of his self-help guide. So according to him, your one cookie last night was perfectly ok.

He also recommends small meals - like 5-6 times a day (which is what I do already) and to eat even when not hungry to stave off the binge. I will get to the specifics of the self-help portion in another post (and tailor it to me). You might find the book interesting Deb, although it sounds like you are pretty binge-free with your new way of eating.

P
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Old 02-25-2008, 06:27 AM   #383
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If I am home and not busy I will binge. I try to eat 4-5 small meals but often get busy and got too long between meals. That is when I have issues. I also have issues when I don't have meals preplanned or leftovers to make when I walk in the house and it has been way too long between meals.

Thanks for all your great posts on this issue. You really could write your own book!!
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Old 02-25-2008, 07:49 AM   #384
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Fairburn recommends - to allow all foods, no foods being forbidden...

He also recommends small meals - like 5-6 times a day (which is what I do already) and to eat even when not hungry to stave off the binge.
So important and great to know.
Thanks again, Pauline.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:23 AM   #385
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Wow Pauline. Glad you had a good time. You sure do have it all figured out huh? I hope one day that I can get to where you are.

The binge eating is quite a complex issue. I know that when I am in a binge I fully recognize that I am binging and somehow continue to binge.

This is very hard to understand. I need to read and research this further.

I’m glad you post your findings. It helps.
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Old 02-25-2008, 07:04 PM   #386
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February 25, 2008

I am progressing forward, but I absolutely do not have it figured it out!!! LOL!!!! I just have a lot of Me figured out in the last five years and have been able to put a lot of non-constructive stuff to the side - made peace with it and put it aside. And in the process, my binge eating and general overeating has become less and less.

I keep getting further ahead, but I know I don't have all my own answers yet - especially with regard to Maintenance. I keep reading and learning. But mostly, I know in my heart that I will get this right - that against all odds, being obese nearly my entire life, I beat it and have not been back to morbid obesity because I am a different person. I did this, not only because I worked hard, but because I changed my view of the world - but mostly I changed my view of me and that allowed me to treat myself the way I ought to be treated, and allowed me to become the Me I deserve to be - Me at peace with myself.
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:31 PM   #387
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February, 26, 2008

I am really tired! I did my usual workout and then this afternoon shoveled snow for over an hour, lol! Two for one!!

I am feeling really good about things right now. Pleased with how the weekend went, pleased that I am so easily able to pick up where I left off before going away. These are the kind of transitions that will be key to a successful maintenance.

It's funny I was speaking to a friend at the gym and mentioning how well I did with food while in Boston and I said, "But I wasn't dieting - I really did enjoy the food I ordered" and she replied that, That is the place she wants to be - to eat at a level where she won't gain weight, but is happy with her food selection when she's out, etc. and it struck me that I am really happy with what I eat and when and how much - and it's kind of surprising and it's good.

I've been trying to keep a food log from the book I've been reading and I have been having trouble filling it out all the time - I have to re-work the log so I can do it right!! I guess it is hard to get motivated on this when the binge is at bay and all seems to be going well - but I have convinced myself I should go through the guide to get to the areas that I very much will need in life - the problem-solving etc.

I've been googling B.E.D. and saw a study that said it lasts for 8 years on average in a typical person (and typically appears during adulthood) versus 1.7 years in Bulimia ... Does this mean it has a shelf life I wonder? I remember bingeing as a child and young adult, but I don't remember it being such an everyday struggle the way it has been the last few years.

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Old 02-26-2008, 08:05 PM   #388
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Start Date: Back on track 9/7/11
For me the Binge Beast has only been really bad as I've lost weight. Especially as I got and get closer to my goal.

I know the bedrock was laid when I was a child and had to sneak food etc. But the Binging has been the toughest lately.

I know I binged while I gained weight in my 30's but it wasn't identified and it was just me being me?? Does that make any sense?

Oh well, I'm tired and I'm rambling and not making much sense.

Good night Pauline!
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:17 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaDa! View Post
February, 26, 2008

I've been googling B.E.D. and saw a study that said it lasts for 8 years on average in a typical person (and typically appears during adulthood) versus 1.7 years in Bulimia ... Does this mean it has a shelf life I wonder? I remember bingeing as a child and young adult, but I don't remember it being such an everyday struggle the way it has been the last few years.
Interesting. I binged a lot when I was a child and teenager. I have binged even more as an adult. As an adult, I have binged for over twenty years. I can recall, even now, specific binges in specific places. I binge the least when I low carb, but we all know that a person can binge on celery or chicken.:blush:


I actually held this book in my hand a couple of weeks ago, but didn't buy it because I was with a friend. I wrote the title in my date book to get at a later date. Interesting that this is the book that you are writing about.

Do you agree with the concept that no food is off limits? Does he address the biochemical reaction in your body when you eat the cookie or brownie or cake or does he feel that it is a mental reaction to eating the cookie that triggers the binge? The longer I low carb, the more I am seeing that my body is very sensitive to different foods. Some make me swell, some make me achy, some give me headaches. Could some make me binge?

Do you agree with the not-an-addiction idea? I have to be honest and say that I find it hard to believe that it is not an addiction. I come from a long, long line of alcoholics. Learned behavior or chemically inclined? I believe that whatever the reason, I am responsible for my "treatment." I, too, don't fair too well with the 12-step program idea. It makes me want to binge.

I will get this book soon. I have another pile I need to finish first. LOL

I am glad that you had such a wonderful time away. I am happy for you that you were so successful!!
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Last edited by GardenGirl639; 02-27-2008 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:58 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenGirl639 View Post
Do you agree with the concept that no food is off limits? Does he address the biochemical reaction in your body when you eat the cookie or brownie or cake or does he feel that it is a mental reaction to eating the cookie that triggers the binge? The longer I low carb, the more I am seeing that my body is very sensitive to different foods. Some make me swell, some make me achy, some give me headaches. Could some make me binge?
Well, that is a big question I have with respect to the book. Dr. Fairburn believes one large step in healing from B.E.D. comes through normalizing the relationship with food. Two of his steps in the self-guided section address this: 1) no food off limits, 2) institution of a very strictly scheduled 5-6 meals a day (actual food in each meal not strict in any way, just planned out to allow no more than 3 hours between feeding).

Fairburn states that this is not a weightloss plan. He has a chapter in the addendum dedicated to the overweight binge eaters and in it he basically tells us to pick one thing to work on -- preferably the binge eating, because there is no tried and true way to treat both obesity and B.E.D. and that most (but not all) binge eaters will fall right into the binge-restrict-binge cycle if they try to diet. At the same time he has us weigh once weekly to monitor what happens.

Weirdly, I totally totally had come to the same conclusion on my own wrt binge eating and loosening up the self-imposed "rules" that were strangling me - and it worked. I just re-read "my weightloss story" from a couple of years ago and one way I jumped out of that binge-restrict-binge cycle was to start the 5 meals a day and to go up the carb ladder to see how far I could go and still lose weight ... and it worked to some degree.

I found the binge-eating probably came back because I did not keep up with my life problem-solving skills and one of the most intensely stressful periods of my life just happened on me at the same time that I was coincidentally at Maintenance without a real plan for Maintenance and I basically abandoned the food structure I had succeeded with.

I guess I am trying to find my own balance here. I already restrict food beyond lowcarb in that I do not eat meat or chicken and have been this way for about 30 years ... is it because I am a binge eater? I don't know.

For a long time I have tried to stay away from any black or white, either with respect to my food plan, or analyzing things. I think success, as Tom Venuto would say, lies in studying everything and taking what serves you from it, casting to the side what does not work for you. Many here at LCF would disagree but it has worked well for me in my life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenGirl639 View Post
Does he address the biochemical reaction in your body when you eat the cookie or brownie or cake or does he feel that it is a mental reaction to eating the cookie that triggers the binge? The longer I low carb, the more I am seeing that my body is very sensitive to different foods. Some make me swell, some make me achy, some give me headaches. Could some make me binge?
He only alludes to this kind of thinking and dismisses it as irrelevant to his treatment and to Binge Eating, but that's ok, I can still accept much of what he is saying. Fact is I am able to eat normally when I eat lowcarb because I enjoy it and I really do believe the whole blood sugar aspect of lowcarb has helped me ... and if it's all in my mind, that's ok too ... as long as it stays there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GardenGirl639 View Post
Do you agree with the not-an-addiction idea? I have to be honest and say that I find it hard to believe that it is not an addiction. I come from a long, long line of alcoholics. Learned behavior or chemically inclined? I believe that whatever the reason, I am responsible for my "treatment." I, too, don't fair too well with the 12-step program idea. It makes me want to binge.
Fairburn touches on the fact that folks with Eating disorders can and do have a link with other disorders - addiction, depression, etc higher than the general population ... but I absolutely do agree that B.E.D. and all the EDs are the diametric opposite of Addiction. Attributing obesity to Addiction is is a very superficial way to look at it: "You're fat - You eat too much - So stop it, you bad person.

I truly believe that in my case, it is not too much permissiveness or excess that causes my binge and my obesity. Maybe there is an addiction to food where people just really like to eat a lot all the time because it's yummy ... As for binge eating, I do not enjoy the binge the way an alcoholic enjoys his drink. It is the opposite - I punish myself and it causes the binge. Inside I perceive the extreme restriction and strictures I place on myself by overdieting, harsh language and treatment of myself as being too much and the result is a binge when I cannot possibly meet those expectations. This is nothing like Alcohol or Drug addiction.

I really feel that the approach of the 12-step program feeds into the harshness aspect - going from the assumption that we are "sinners" against ourselves and others, looking to be abstinent where abstinence is the goal ... just the words make me want to binge, so it makes utter utter sense to me that this is just plain wrong way to heal. I need kindness - I've spent my life with the harsh voices inside and it kept me obese and miserable. I am not addicted to food. I need it to live.
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