Put down those vitamins!

[Blood Sugar 101]

Today's medical news brings yet another batch of studies which find that high doses of antioxidants and B vitamines damage our bodies. This is added to the large long term studies that have found that supplementing with Vitamin C and E appears to RAISE heart attack risk.

Antioxidants May Increase the Risk of Developing Diabetes

Our bodies evolved to use the nutrients found in fresh foods. This suggests very strongly that the safest healthiest way to get these vitamins is to take them in the form of real foods. If this isn't possible, keep your doses of supplements to the levels of what you would get from eating those foods.

Remember too that ALL vitamins no matter who packages and labels them use raw materials manufactured in Chinese factories where they may be contaminated with industrial solvents and heavily polluted air and water. The testing companies claim to do with supplements just test that they contain the stated chemical, but they do not test for the dozens of adulterants these factory made vitamins may contain. It is not clear if the damage from vitamin supplementation is due to the actual vitamin overdoses or from contaminants introduced in these Chinese factories. Given the track record of the Chinese for selling dangerously adulterated food ingredients, the last cannot be ruled out.

To see the list of citations to research papers linking antioxidants to bad outcomes visit this page: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/1587...p#antioxidants

Vitamin D is a special case, and in Northern Latitudes it is hard to get enough, but if you are supplementing with Vitamin D megadoses you should be getting your blood levels checked from time to time to make sure they are not too high. I have been hearing from people whose doctors are prescribing tens of thousands of IU to them with no testing, and common sense suggests this might not be wise, either.

[DiamondDeb]

I skimmed the article and found nothing conclusive in it. Taking extremely large doses of supplements can cause problems just like with other things.

[Debbi]

How can we tell if our Vitamins were produced in China? Are there some companies where they are using ingredients found in the US only?

[Blood Sugar 101]

Originally Posted by Debbi

How can we tell if our Vitamins were produced in China? Are there some companies where they are using ingredients found in the US only?

According to the article I linked ALL vitamin C was coming from China in 2007.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/22/AR2007042201163.html

There is no way of knowing where the raw materials of any vitamin pill is coming from. I noticed that my kelp supplements for example, say "Nova Scotia and Pacific" kept. Since China is on the Pacific, that may point to a Chinese origin for the kelp, too and there is no proportion specified for Atlantic vs Pacific.

[MSN08]

I already have for those reasons among others.

[chasemama23]

I find that I have a very good balanced diet especially compared to what it used to be! Vitamins always make me very sick. To me, thats a red flag that I'm most likely getting too much of a good thing and even if thats not the case, I'd rather have a very slight vitamin deficiency than feel like I wanna die everyday from taking vitamins.

[TrinaBeena]

good grief now I'm scared. Thanks for posting this.

[stephanie34]

i have never takin vitiams in my life. They make me angry. So thankfully I am still one of the healthiest people i know. I say eat the right foods and exercise and drink your water, that all you need to do. I do take a one pill a day for my thyriod, but thats it. My body does like everything from nature. Thats why atkins is perfect for me. I can't take anything synthetic I can feel it.. I hear different things about vitiamins and the way they are made..

[Debbi]

I currently take a B complex stress w/Vitamin C and I feel so much better taking this. I can really feel the difference. I take Whole Foods brand. I searched their web and the bottle and cannot find any reference to where the ingredients have come from or where manufactured. Any ideas on how to look this up?

[Magicsmom]

I think we are playing games with our health if we take mega doses of anything. Even the water soluable vitamins that are eliminated from the body put extra strain on the systems that filter them out. Vitamin D was especially harmful to me in large doses. I cringe when I read here about people taking 5000 - 10000 mg per day.

[LouieLouie2007]

I take vitamins when I remember, but it is not a daily thing, more like a weekly or even monthly thing. I don't really notice a difference between taking them and not taking them. The only that really gave me good results was the biotin.

[jezzie]

I take folic acid, B-6 and B-12. - Prescribed for high homocysteine.
Vitamin D and a Cal/Mag (I'm on a calcium channel blocker).

Haven't taken a multi-vitamin in many many years.
Occasionally I take C and/or probiotics ... but not on a regular basis.
Apparently it works for me. Eight years 'cold-free'.

[Blood Sugar 101]

Originally Posted by jezzie

I take folic acid, B-6 and B-12. - Prescribed for high homocysteine.
Vitamin D and a Cal/Mag (I'm on a calcium channel blocker).

Haven't taken a multi-vitamin in many many years.
Occasionally I take C and/or probiotics ... but not on a regular basis.
Apparently it works for me. Eight years 'cold-free'.

Any doctor who is prescribing B-6 and B-12 for high homocysteine is painfully out of touch with the research that has proven conclusively that boosting these vitamins does not lower homocysteine or have any effect on heart disease.

People eating low carb diets that have no grains in them probably should take the RDA of B vitamins, but higher doses are not a good idea.

[jezzie]

hmmmm.

Well he's been my Doc for over 15 years. Like him. Respect him. I'll keep him.
Oh, ... and my homocysteine has lowered over the past year.

[ssMarilyn]

I can't believe I haven't been to this board since 2004!! That being said, one of hubby's co-workers is in liver failure due to taking mega doses of vitamins for years. Too much of anything is not good. Unfortunately, our whole food sources no longer contain the vitamins and minerals that they did so many years ago, due to our soils being over-farmed and stripped of all natural nutrients. Plus processed foods are so full of chemicals that are causing negative reactions in our bodies and factory farm meat is the worst thing we can eat. Some supplements are necessary in order to ensure good health. I had no idea magnesium was so important until I read "The Miracle of Magnesium" written by an MD/ND. I have alot of the symptoms of a magnesium deficiency, plus the Atkins diet depletes mag from our bodies.

[kristina]

sssssssso.


I wonder what Centrum Silver, and Citrucal (calcium citrate) contain.

*sigh* NOTHING is safe any more

[Blood Sugar 101]

Originally Posted by ssMarilyn

Unfortunately, our whole food sources no longer contain the vitamins and minerals that they did so many years ago, due to our soils being over-farmed and stripped of all natural nutrients.

This oft repeated statement is something invented by the people who earn billions from selling supplements.

It isn't true.

Our foods contain both vitamins and minerals as any lab analysis will prove.

And American soil is rich in many minerals missing in third world countries that use traditional agricultural techniques.

Often books written by self-appointed alternative medicine practitioners give vague lists of symptoms almost EVERYONE has and then claim they are the symptoms of some deficiency. Not so suprisingly, these people are often selling the magical supplement they say you need.

[Steve Parker, M.D.]

Blood Sugar 101, I believe your last post is correct.

-Steve

[NewStartNow]

Is it pointless to take any supplements: calcium? natural calm magnesium powder?

Your warning doesn't include oil supplements, does it? cod liver? borage?

[Blood Sugar 101]

Originally Posted by NewStartNow

Is it pointless to take any supplements: calcium? natural calm magnesium powder?

Your warning doesn't include oil supplements, does it? cod liver? borage?

Actually, it is.

A large study of women taking calcium supplements for many years (at the usually recommended doses )found that the women taking calcium had more heart disease than those who didn't.

Dr. Davis, the cardiologist, says this is because calcium is prone to deposit itself on the arteries unless a person has high levels of Vitamin D. People who are obese often have very low levels even with supplementation because fat interferes with Vitamin D metabolism.

What "Natural calm" magnesium might be is a mystery to me, but it sounds suspiciously like snake oil. You can get magnesium in the physiologically needed amounts from vegetables, nuts and seeds. Any extra is excreted. Often quite dramatically as too much gives people diarrhea.

Oil supplements can be very problematic. Some like flax oil, have female hormone properties and I have personally experienced very disturbing mood effects from taking too much flax oil. Fish oil has benefits, up to a point, but Dr. Davis has mentioned recently that it is possible to take too much.

The fundamental issue here is the human need to believe there are miracle substances out there that aren't the plain old boring things we know are good for us--like greens and veggies. And the more expensive the magic, the more effective it will seem. One study gave people two placebo sugar pills, one expensive one cheap, and the subjects all found the expensive pill far more effective for their maladies than the cheap one.

[SweetPoison2]

Well this his alarming. Seriously. Right when you think you finally have it all together. Now This.


I guess what I want to know what constitutes a "mega dose"

I just started 2000IU of Vit D ~ Mega dose?

[ssMarilyn]

Blood Sugar 101, please post some links to facts supporting your statement that our soils are not nutrient poor. If you're right, I want to know it, but I need to see the facts. I've read different books by people who are not selling supplements, and they state our soils are over-farmed, which I believe to be true and being a farm girl, I've seen it. I also don't understand why an MD would risk their professional reputation by writing a book based on fallacy. I think most of us are aware that MD's don't know that much about supplements and nutrition. They're trained to treat disease, not prevent it. Some might be up on the subject, but I have yet to see one that is. (personal experience)

[Blood Sugar 101]

"I also don't understand why an MD would risk their professional reputation by writing a book based on fallacy"

Then you must LOVE Dr. Neal Bernard's book which claims only a pure vegan diet will heal diabetes.

MDs write all kinds of unsupported nonsense because they earn 6 and 7 figure advances for their diet and health books.

I don't have the time to hunt up the cites for you, beyond mentioning the data about chromium. It turns out that chromium supplementation helps people with IR in India--where it was tested, but not in the US. Why? Because American soils are not chromium deficient while India's are.

You'll find lots of cites to research on this page: Worthless or Dangerous Supplements

There are also problems with Selenium in China that we don't have here.

I have plenty of magnesium and calcium in my well water.

But if you can find any peer reviewed research published in first tier journals and not sponsored by a nutritional supplement company that proves your statement, please show it.

[NewStartNow]

Originally Posted by Blood Sugar 101

What "Natural calm" magnesium might be is a mystery to me, but it sounds suspiciously like snake oil. You can get magnesium in the physiologically needed amounts from vegetables, nuts and seeds. Any extra is excreted. Often quite dramatically as too much gives people diarrhea.

Natural Calm is a magnesium oxide powder sweetened with a little stevia. It is supposed to help one sleep at night as wells as provide all the other benefits of magnesium (whatever those are). I haven't found that it helps me sleep any better but that may be because I'm afraid to take too much due to the diarrhea fact you mentioned.

[DiamondDeb]

Originally Posted by SweetPoison2

Well this his alarming. Seriously. Right when you think you finally have it all together. Now This.


I guess what I want to know what constitutes a "mega dose"

I just started 2000IU of Vit D ~ Mega dose?

No, that is not a mega dose, not by a long shot.

Don't believe everything you read either. That study is proof of nothing & the wording is clear about that. "May" doesn't mean anything. The sun "may" not rise tomorrow.

There are a lot of poor quality useless supplements out there but there are high quality ones, too. And not all vitamins contain ingredients from China. That is a false statement.

[ssMarilyn]

I've never read Dr. Neal Bernard's book on being vegan, probably because I'm not a vegan. The book 'The Miracle of Magnesium' is based on studies done, and the doctor talks about the studies. If magnesium does us no good, then someone needs to tell the ER docs that treat asthma and heart attack patients with it intraveinously (sp). It's proven to relax airways, heart muscle and arteries. I'm a skeptic, believe half of what I see and nothing of what I hear. I always have to look into things, research and research more. I've looked into the magnesium facts and have found alot of substantial research. That being said, it's still up to each one of us to make our own minds up on what route to follow, and for sure we can't tell someone that supplements don't help. That would be wrong.

[SweetPoison2]

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

No, that is not a mega dose, not by a long shot.

Don't believe everything you read either. That study is proof of nothing & the wording is clear about that. "May" doesn't mean anything. The sun "may" not rise tomorrow.

There are a lot of poor quality useless supplements out there but there are high quality ones, too. And not all vitamins contain ingredients from China. That is a false statement.

Thanks, Deb. I know Fawn. I have met Fawn ~ and she has taught me a lot ~

But I was a little worried.

[Blood Sugar 101]

As reported in 2007 from the Washington Post:

"Currently, most of the world's vitamins are manufactured in China. Unable to compete, the last U.S. plant making vitamin C closed a year ago. One of Europe's largest citric acid plants shut last winter, and only one vitamin C manufacturer operates in the West. Given China's cheap labor, artificially low prices and the unfair competitive climate it has foisted on the industry, few Western producers of food ingredients can survive much longer."

The label on your vitamins only tells you where they were packaged. The vitamins come from abroad because they aren't manufactured here.

[texastigerlily]

I know for a fact that not ALL vitamins are manufactured in China. Certain high quality vitamins are manufactured right here in the good ole US of A. I am not alarmed by a study that is not conclusive. I would also like facts about our soil. I read a lot of info. on Natural News website, and I know they are very particular about getting their info. straight. They also report that our soils are depleted. I think we need to be very careful about jumping to conclusions - afterall, is there anything that does NOT cause cancer? Just saying...

[DiamondDeb]

Originally Posted by Blood Sugar 101

As reported in 2007 from the Washington Post:

"Currently, most of the world's vitamins are manufactured in China. Unable to compete, the last U.S. plant making vitamin C closed a year ago. One of Europe's largest citric acid plants shut last winter, and only one vitamin C manufacturer operates in the West. Given China's cheap labor, artificially low prices and the unfair competitive climate it has foisted on the industry, few Western producers of food ingredients can survive much longer."

The label on your vitamins only tells you where they were packaged. The vitamins come from abroad because they aren't manufactured here.

You really believe that a report that is two years old, even if it were accurate at the time (not suggesting I think it was) is accurate now? lol...

I disagree. Strongly. Research more and you'll probably learn the truth.