5-htp versus Sam-E - what's the difference?

[Elloise]

Sam's Club has 100 tablets - 200mg - for 33.63. Schiff brand. I've never bought it, just saw it there today.

[amiga74]

Sam-e by Nature Made is considered very reputable. yes, it is expensive, but you can often find it 2 for 1. I did take it for awhile, though it did not help with my anxiety. however, it is certainly one of those ymmv things, and worth trying. the great thing about sam-e, i think, besides the stuff mentioned already, is that it is also good for the liver unlike ssris.
it is worth trying but you might need 400mg minimum. it does take a little time to get used to, so it is impt to be consistent.
best of luck!

someone mentioned taking Wellbutrin with 5-htp. according to my understanding, this is not a good idea, unless it has been sanctioned by your doctor...

[chewiegand]

I truly enjoyed reading this thread--great info and thanks to all of you for sharing. I have suffered from depression since I was in my 20s. I am almost 50--GASP,next year, and it's rearing it's ugly head again badly. I take celexa and it's not really helping anymore but I'm afraid to stop taking it because I'm sure it must be doing something. I always thought or read somewhere that you shouldn't combine things like a prescription med and a natural supplement because it's too much. Maybe I'm wrong? I hope so because I think I'd like to start SamE. I'm going to do some added research but any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Mary

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by chewiegand

I truly enjoyed reading this thread--great info and thanks to all of you for sharing. I have suffered from depression since I was in my 20s. I am almost 50--GASP,next year, and it's rearing it's ugly head again badly. I take celexa and it's not really helping anymore but I'm afraid to stop taking it because I'm sure it must be doing something. I always thought or read somewhere that you shouldn't combine things like a prescription med and a natural supplement because it's too much. Maybe I'm wrong? I hope so because I think I'd like to start SamE. I'm going to do some added research but any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Mary

Definitely check with your doc first and pharmacist for any possible interactions if you are on prescription meds. Certain scripts do interact with Sam-E.

Dietary Supplement Information Bureau – All Vitamins & Supplements

[katlj]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

Definitely check with your doc first and pharmacist for any possible interactions if you are on prescription meds. Certain scripts do interact with Sam-E.

Dietary Supplement Information Bureau – All Vitamins & Supplements

FABULOUS link, lisafinil! Thanks for posting!!

[hummingbird11]

even if it says Made in the USA?

please let me know what you find out, I am very curious as I have a lot of NOW products as my sis and another friend recommend them. But I don't want to use NOW if they are inferior...thanks Fawn/Lisa!

Originally Posted by fawn

Lisa is right about the cheaper supplements having inferior fillers from China. Whether NOW brand is specific to that or not, I'm not sure yet but I'll check into it.

[hummingbird11]

WOW THIS RAWKS THANKS!!

Originally Posted by lisabinil

Definitely check with your doc first and pharmacist for any possible interactions if you are on prescription meds. Certain scripts do interact with Sam-E.

Dietary Supplement Information Bureau – All Vitamins & Supplements

[hummingbird11]

Oh hey, I also wanted to suggest Julia Ross: The Diet Cure and/or The Mood Cure.

I have The Diet Cure (rec by Fawn)

There's a whole chapter re: Correcting Your Imbalances/Refueling Your Brain Chemistry with Amino Acids.

I bet The Mood Cure has even more info?? Not sure cause I don't have that one.

[Lil Donna]

I tried 5 htp for several years and just stopped taking it this past year.
I don't really notice a difference since I stopped.

I only have mild depression, more like PMS at certain times of the month and I do get into ruts occassionally where I just would rather watch TV or sleep.

Would Sam-E help lift my mood and keep me motivated to do more stuff?
I was also thinking of trying B-12 to get me up and moving...

Any suggestions? Which would be best in your opinion, 5htp, B12 or SamE?

[JunkInMyTrunk]

Originally Posted by chewiegand

I truly enjoyed reading this thread--great info and thanks to all of you for sharing. I have suffered from depression since I was in my 20s. I am almost 50--GASP,next year, and it's rearing it's ugly head again badly. I take celexa and it's not really helping anymore but I'm afraid to stop taking it because I'm sure it must be doing something. I always thought or read somewhere that you shouldn't combine things like a prescription med and a natural supplement because it's too much. Maybe I'm wrong? I hope so because I think I'd like to start SamE. I'm going to do some added research but any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Mary

Have you had your thyroid checked? Depression is a common symptom of a thyroid problem. With Hashimotos thyroid disease you can have different symptoms come and go throughout your lifetime depending on how the thyroid is functioning and not know you have it because they don't commonly test for it while you are young.

I too suffered from depression on and off for years and was prescribed many different antidepressants, which would work for a little while or make me feel a little better, but never really "cured" me and then I found out that I had a thyroid problem. I also could fall asleep at the drop of a hat, but I couldn't stay asleep which also has a negative effect on moods. I felt a little better when on Synthroid, but am feeling much better on Armour.

I had tried the SAM-e before I found out about my thyroid problem and it didn't work for me, probably because the depression was caused by my thyroid condition and not by a deficiency of seratonin or dopamine.

Check out the medical issues area and the sticky about thyroid conditions to see if you fit any of the other symptoms.

[amiga74]

Originally Posted by chewiegand

I truly enjoyed reading this thread--great info and thanks to all of you for sharing. I have suffered from depression since I was in my 20s. I am almost 50--GASP,next year, and it's rearing it's ugly head again badly. I take celexa and it's not really helping anymore but I'm afraid to stop taking it because I'm sure it must be doing something. I always thought or read somewhere that you shouldn't combine things like a prescription med and a natural supplement because it's too much. Maybe I'm wrong? I hope so because I think I'd like to start SamE. I'm going to do some added research but any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Mary

hi Mary!
yeah, i don't think you can take celexa along with sam-e. i've been taking zoloft for a few years and have tried to get off it. for a little over 3 months, after weaning myself off the zoloft, i took sam-e. however, i went back to zoloft.
at least in my case with zoloft, i could not take it and sam-e or 5-htp at the same time. unfortunately, i do not remember the reasoning, something about too much serotonin and serotonin syndrome, i believe. but the info is available out there for sure.
best of luck!

[amiga74]

Originally Posted by hummingbird11

Oh hey, I also wanted to suggest Julia Ross: The Diet Cure and/or The Mood Cure.

I have The Diet Cure (rec by Fawn)

There's a whole chapter re: Correcting Your Imbalances/Refueling Your Brain Chemistry with Amino Acids.

I bet The Mood Cure has even more info?? Not sure cause I don't have that one.

yeah, i checked out the Diet Cure from the library a few months ago and she does have info in there about depression.

One natural remedy is fish oil or omegas. it is supposed to be good for depression. Even in that book, the author does state that certain "natural" supplements should not be taken with more conventional anti-depressants. in fact, i believe she mentioned 5-htp specifically in that regard.
that book is interesting!

[amiga74]

Originally Posted by Lil Donna

I tried 5 htp for several years and just stopped taking it this past year.
I don't really notice a difference since I stopped.

I only have mild depression, more like PMS at certain times of the month and I do get into ruts occassionally where I just would rather watch TV or sleep.

Would Sam-E help lift my mood and keep me motivated to do more stuff?
I was also thinking of trying B-12 to get me up and moving...

Any suggestions? Which would be best in your opinion, 5htp, B12 or SamE?

hey Donna!
a few folks i know do take sam-e in the ways you describe and feel it helps them. however, in my experience, there is a bit of an adjustment period, but its worth trying

[coffeelover]

Just a side-note - why the heck would they put Yellow #5 dye in Nature Made Sam-E? I've dramatically cut out artificial dyes from my family's diet and this just annoys me. Yellow #5 is the worst one for your health.

[butts]

i just ordered some 5-HTP, but not for anxiety/depression (i take l-glutamine/b complex for anxiety and it seems to work). i'm curious if anyone knows if it works for carb cravings? i ordered it after reading this article (warning: the site that hosts it is a bodybuilding site, so the tone is kind of meathead-y).

[amiga74]

Originally Posted by coffeelover

Just a side-note - why the heck would they put Yellow #5 dye in Nature Made Sam-E? I've dramatically cut out artificial dyes from my family's diet and this just annoys me. Yellow #5 is the worst one for your health.

that sucks about the dye, Coffeelover! In addition to Nature Made, i have also tried, and have seen many folks recommend the GNC brand Sam-E. however, they may both be from the same manufacturer. Why is yellow #5 so bad for you?

Butts: as for l-glutamine being a carb-suppressant, well, i've tried it out! the author of the Diet Cure recommends it. i don't know if it really works, but every time i took a 500mg tablet, it made me feel stronger in resisting carbs its less expensive than other supplements out there so it is easy to try!

i'm gonna check out the link you posted, too, thanks!

[4gotn1]

THANK YOU all for your input and information! I am OFF effexor, PRAISE GOD! I don't have insurance so my Dr. gives me samples.....Effexor is going to go generic and the company came out w/ another drug called pristiq. So he weaned me off the effex and onto the pristiq and I was bawling like a baby...happy , sad I was bawling and the feelings of complete worthless was unbearable. I mean I have always had a nasty little inner voice but this time it was horrible!

I called to get something new and he was on vacation. By the time he got back and I got enough energy to go to the store almost 2 weeks had passed so I decided to try to NOT take the new stuff.

So far.... It is has been 2-3 weeks with NO Meds and I am starting to feel better...still feeling depressed just to be honest, not suicidial, which being on the pristiq or weaning off the effexor did to me.!

They put my mom on effexor for menopause symtpoms we both call it Satan's drug. The withdrawl effects if you miss a dose are ungodly. I couldnt' stand having that in my body any longer.

Although I feel better than when on pristiq and weaning off effexor, I know I NEED something for my mood and I am praying that the SAMe works.

Thanks for all the input...oh and this is no way an attack on anyone who has taken or is taking effexor but PLEASE if you thinking about, TRY nature first!

[nanberrycritter]

Bumping this back up. I still have some $3 Nature Made coupons to share. I have enough for 6 people (2 each to maximize your bogo savings). If you asked and haven't received them, then I didn't get your address. They expire on the 29th so get 'em while the gettin's good! Just PM me. I'm happy to share.

[NancyH58]

Originally Posted by coffeelover

I tried Lexapro and I felt completely crazy - so wound up and agitated. Wellbutrin and Effexor are the only antidepressants that work for me when things get bad. My doc has said that in my case it's got to be my dopamine and/or norepinephrine that gets out of whack because those the two that Effexor and Wellbutrin work on. I was so calm when I was on Wellbutrin that it felt like I had a warm blanket wrapped around me (yeah, I know that sounds weird but that's the best analogy I can think of).

I wonder if 5htp or Sam-E works on Dopamine or norepinephrine or just seratonin?

I am like you - my craziness is dopamine/norepi related, I'm sure of it.

The best thing to raise dopamine is a strict low carb, calorie restricted diet BTW. This lowers serotonin and dopamine is relatively more active by that. That's why kids with ADD/ADHD need low sugar, low carb diets; the excess of carbs increases serotonin and depletes dopamine so they can't focus, are apathetic, unmotivated (like the way a lot of serotonin antidepressants make you feel). Hyperactivity is part of some forms because of serotonin's effect on norepi. Norepi will cause hyperactivity and also anxiety (serotonin will cause anxiety if it is too high OR too low...a lot of women with anxiety have too much serotonin, not too little).

Second, I suggest using st johns wort. I am certain SJW works very rapidly on dopamine/norepi, like a stimulant, and it also has a longer term (over weeks) effect as a serotonergic drug. SJW is definitely the way to go if you want all natural antidepressant that will work on these chems.
I have a slight tendency toward bipolarity, the first time I took SJW, I was *FLYING* by that night in that typical dopamine/norepi way. Pairing SJW with coffee really accentuates the effect. The most amazing hypomanic episodes will be had if I eat pure fats, restrict carbs and calories a bit, on top of consuming coffee and taking SJW. All of these interventions - coffee, fats/carb restriction, SJW - all share in common raising dopamine, and this is consistently the only thing that will affect my depressive tendency.

Some people report success with l-tyrosine although I've never tried it. l-tyrosine is the precursor to catecholamine, stimulatory dopamine/norepi. Theoretically it might make anxiety worse, since catecholamines (dopamine, norepi) metabolize into adrenaline (epinephrine) so taking lots of l-tyrosine might cause panic attacks in some people. But, other report sharper focus and motivation and less depression and everything one might expect from enhancing these neurotransmitters.


As for 5-htp... it turns into serotonin and melatonin. Even though I believe my depression is mostly about dopamine, serotonin is of course hugely important.

I notice things that affect serotonin (like 5-htp, carbs, or sunlight) are very important for creating a sense of "balance" and "general well being". You know, that trippy hippy dippy feeling of peace and oneness... a feeling of pleasure and satisfaction, almost heroin-like...that is allllll serotonin my friends. It makes you feel "okay" where you are, right now. And, it makes you feel able to rest, relax, and sleep.

Serotonin, in my opinion, is way overpromoted as a neurotransmitter relevant in depression. Serotonin deficiency (or even excess, due to norepi) is more about nervous tension, worry, feeling just generally "bad" and "jumpy" and not sleeping well. I mean, this is depression... but the kind of depression most people have - the apathetic, lethargic, unmotivated, numb, socially withdrawn, emotionally dead type is mostly a dopamine/norepi deficiency thing. Pure depression is dopamine deficiency. Serotonin in excess actually can depress (via numbing and sedating the sh*t) out of people who have unstable dopamine systems (people like me, with a bipolarish tendency).
Serotonin deficiency/instability is more about those people who have super unstable moods, very emotionally reactive, anxious and nervous, tense, worry, create crazy blowups in their minds over nothing, don't sleep well... kind of the opposite of the lazy sacks of flesh most people associate with depression.


With that said, I find 5-htp can help in a lot of circumstances. When I'm really wound up, uncomfortable, achy, getting OCD thoughts, and can't sleep well, having emotional overwhelming feelings... general signs of serotonin being low... then I pop 2 5-htp at night, and usually wake up the next day feeling a lot more balanced and "replenished". However if I try to take 5-htp every day, consistently, then it just numbs the crap out of me and turns me into an apathetic zombie, with radically cycling energy levels every other day (it makes my bipolar worse, but I'm too numb to care, lol).

Therefore, 5-htp is an "as needed" thing, it is not first line in depression for me, because 5-htp & serotonin doesn't have much to do with my depression. Depression is a lack of stimulation, it is related to dopamine deficiency, and 5-htp will only make that worse. 5-htp, however, is super important for the "lack of well being" feeling, the unsatisfied, uncomfortable, irrational, moody/emotional, generally not balanced feeling... but I don't get that consistently. My depression is the apathetic/understimulated type. When I start feeling like a fussy whiny 2 year old, I know I'm low on serotonin, and I know I'll benefit from 5-htp.


In summary:
-stick with low carb, maybe cal restriction, increase fats
-try sjw, maybe l-tyrosine as these enhance dopamine stimulation
-5-htp as needed for emotional craziness and "lack of well being".

[4gotn1]

How long does it take for you to feel a difference using SAMe and/or 5-htp???

I have been w/o RX drugs for a month , maybe a bit more and I am going CRAZY! I feel trapped, like every thing I want to do has to be done today...even things I know I have to wait a few months for. Usually when life is chaotic and the humans are being disappointments, my furkids are a HUGE comfort and even they are getting on my nerves.... I NEED to try something or i need to get back on the evil drugs.

HELP!~

[celeste]

I tried to take Sam-E and had a TERRIBLE time with muscle spasms in my back...when I quit taking them, it stopped...anyone else with this problem?

[MichelleM]

Ive been on SAM-E for about 3 weeks now. Im not sure if its working or not. I am still moody and irritated sometimes. Im not in a horrible mood though and I still function pretty well I spose.

I cant say if I think its doing anything to make me feel all 'HAPPY AND FLUFFY" though.. haa........hmm.

[hummingbird11]

the only way I get Happy & Fluffy is via Effexor + Percocet! LOL!

Originally Posted by MichelleM

Ive been on SAM-E for about 3 weeks now. Im not sure if its working or not. I am still moody and irritated sometimes. Im not in a horrible mood though and I still function pretty well I spose.

I cant say if I think its doing anything to make me feel all 'HAPPY AND FLUFFY" though.. haa........hmm.

[hummingbird11]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the Walgreens coupons!

I used them (botH) yesterday; SAM-e is "buy 1 get 1 free" right now ~ yay!

is it supposed to be approx $40 per box??

I got the double-strength (36 tablets @ 400mg each)

Originally Posted by nanberrycritter

Bumping this back up. I still have some $3 Nature Made coupons to share. I have enough for 6 people (2 each to maximize your bogo savings). If you asked and haven't received them, then I didn't get your address. They expire on the 29th so get 'em while the gettin's good! Just PM me. I'm happy to share.

[katlj]

Originally Posted by hummingbird11

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the Walgreens coupons!

I used them (botH) yesterday; SAM-e is "buy 1 get 1 free" right now ~ yay!

is it supposed to be approx $40 per box??

I got the double-strength (36 tablets @ 400mg each)

That's about right. I enter my codes on the Nature Made site to get $7 off coupons and/or stock up on BOGO's. Pricey stuff, but worth it to me!

[hummingbird11]

so, did we ever determine the actual difference between 5-htp vs. Sam-e?

Originally Posted by coffeelover

I'm thinking of trying one of these to help with my anxiety. It's not bad enough to go on antidepressants or even take Xanax (which make me unmotivated). So I thought I'd try something natural. 5-htp and SAM-E seem to be kind of the same thing. Which one should I try?

[hummingbird11]

I'm sorry, I know how that feels...NO FUN.

why not try the 5-htp or Sam-e? I'm going to start w/ Sam-e, I think (since that's what I bought), but depending on what I learn from Fawn, I may leave the Sam-e for hubby and get some 5-htp for me!

yeah, when the furry kids get on your nerves, it's time for action!

Originally Posted by 4gotn1

How long does it take for you to feel a difference using SAMe and/or 5-htp???

I have been w/o RX drugs for a month, maybe a bit more and I am going CRAZY! I feel trapped, like every thing I want to do has to be done today...even things I know I have to wait a few months for. Usually when life is chaotic and the humans are being disappointments, my furkids are a HUGE comfort and even they are getting on my nerves.... I NEED to try something or i need to get back on the evil drugs.

HELP!~

[lisabinil]

Hb Google GABA-it is often called the feel good supplement. I would suggest you get either book by Julia Ross "The Mood Cure" or "The Diet Cure". You may need not only one but a blend of supplements for your particular problems & metabolism. These are great and informative reads.

[johnnyironboard]

I take 400mg per day of Now's Same and like it a lot- when work or something gets stressful I up to 800.

[MichelleM]

welllll I must report that I took SAM-E by natures Made for a montha nd noticed NO CHANGE in mood. Actually I was a bit more moody. I went off of it and am saving money now.lol


I do drink a few sugarfree enrgy drinks now .