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-   -   feel terrible low TSH low t3 (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/thyroid/809780-feel-terrible-low-tsh-low-t3.html)

Pamzilla13 08-10-2013 04:58 AM

feel terrible low TSH low t3
I started nature throid and I am having a lot of side effects I guess and feel worse than before.

It has been one week and 3 days.

labs fasting:

TSH 0.72 (.4-4.50)
Free T3 2.3 (2.3-4.2)
Free t4 1.1 (0.8-1.8)
cortisol 13.7 (4.0-22.0)

I have gained 20 pounds in the past 8 months on the same low carb/mod carb diet that I have been eating for years. I am an amateur body builder...fitness focused person. I exercise 6 days a week weights and cardio. Used to be 2 hours now I can barely tolerate an hour. I am tired and unfocused.

Week one 1/2 grain made me ill after 8 hours. I felt great for the first 5 or so then I started feeling run down and then full blown sweating, couldn't breathe excessive, thirst urination.

Doctor said because it was about 8 hrs later my body needed more. I was crashing. So, I split the dose and it was OK but still, I felt weird like fiberglass was in my body.

So now it is week 2 and I am on 1 grain split. My symptoms have gotten worse. My eyesight has deteriorated in 2 days, I cant focus. I am tired. My temperature went to 97.3 and I have never been that low...Ive been like 98.
I am extremely bloated, my skin is tight...more bloated than I have ever been. I was sick between dose yesterday because I went too long before taking it. So its almost as if I need the meds to feel normal.

I just think its weird that I feel worse and have such a bad experience. My sisters are both hypothyroid (one has hashis and the other primary) and they had no side effects at all.

So, I don't know hats going on. I know this may be pituitary..I don't even know if this is real anymore. I am so distressed!

All other lab values such as progesterone, testosterone, free test, iron, D3, glucose, FSH, LH, DHEA, CBC are all in excellent shape.

Lokarbiebarbie 08-10-2013 06:07 AM

I have some questions. What replacement hormone for thyroid were you on before the Naturethroid? And the dosage.

Did you take that half grain Naturethroid about four to five hours before the blood draw for the tests you list? Because if you did NOT take it before testing...than you had NONE to test. You just paid for the test.

NDT of any kind drives the TSH down very low on even a starting dose. And if the dosage isn't raised or started at proper amounts, that will make you feel sick too.

Um..yeah..most of us can't work out like that until the adrenals are addressed (I see they only did ONE cortisol draw and it's a blood draw? The gold standard of testing for that is to do a 4x in one day salivary cortisol test...cortisol 'ebbs and flows' throughout the day..you only know what YOURS is in the morning).

It's quite important to see your ferritin test and where it is in range also. FSH tells as much as TSH (nothing) so I'm hoping they did an estradiol, and would like to also see the progesterone. Mine was tanked at age 31 and yet since it was 'somewhere in range' I was told 'that's fine'. :)

Your cortisol, if it was taken in the am...warrants you to STOP WORKING OUT until you've been stabilized on your incoming replacement hormone. The thyroid and hormones, when being replaced, need a lot of time to act in the body...you're sweating the NDT right back out.

I couldn't so much as even lift five lb. DB's a couple times until I was stabilized on my replacement hormone. It takes time and patience.

Mind saying what 'age group' you are in?

Pamzilla13 08-10-2013 08:06 AM

I was newly diagnosed a week and 4 days ago...so I've never been on any.

Sorry, my post reads crazy but I started one and it got deleted some how and I was almost to fatigued to write another...

I am 43. kabs drawn 5.17.13

blood drawn fasting 7am in morning no meds no hormones

cortisol was up from 11.9 same range from a year ago.

ferritin was taken a year a go and was 22.0 range 10-232mcg/dL

my hematocrit and hemoglobin excellent all time blood drawn.

b12 I take a supp everyday and always in range

progesterone is 6.3 ng/mL if I take anymore i don't have a period and feel suicidal and very bloated.
my dose is 60mg/mL 2xs a day compounded cream

estradiol 25.o pg/mL it says in range but this doc didn't want to start any estrogen until my thyroid problem is better so we know what is causing issues.

Its funny because the doc has not asked about exercise and diet. They have no idea what I do so they never said that i need to abstain.

I eat whole foods, no gluten minimal dairy...and I do eat all of the bad foods that can potential cause goiter..cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage etc...semi cooked or cooked rarely raw.

my calories have been 1700 to 1600 minimal. I can not go lower than that and have tried atkins and all the shebang and I do better with carbs around 120 higher protein mod fat. I am very aware and sensitive to food.

But what I don't understand is upping to 1 grain and it decreasing temp and the terrible feeling when it is wearing off.

I am getting blood drawn at the end of this month and have included RT3 and ferritin.

Thanks for your reply. It means a lot.

Lokarbiebarbie 08-10-2013 08:33 AM

Low ferritin (below 70 as the very LOWEST you could have) will not allow a patient to get used to incoming T4/T3. And low cortisol will actually make you sick if you don't allow time and rest to let the body come up to 'speed' with incoming hormone. In my case it took about eight months. No, I didn't gain weight...because I kept to a low carb way of eating (Protein Power plan..later I switched to Atkins).

Progesterone will ellicit a 'depression' response in those with low ferritin, inadequate adrenals and trying to add NDT (natural dessicated thyroid).

Hemoglobin doesn't mean much..my ferritin was lower than yours when I started all of this years ago...and the 'iron' test doesn't mean much...ferritin is storage iron...and that impacts thyroid.

Doctors don't take nutrition classes..so, no, they would expect the patient to become well informed and research...and if you look, you'll find the stop the thyroid madness research that's online.

Progesterone and estradiol (or either) actually bring thyroid even lower, so it's quite the 'hormone dance' for months to get all this right...first they'll give progesterone and a little thyroid, then test, they'll see the progesterone is binding the incoming thyroid, and raise the thyroid, then they'll test...and on and on. Most docs don't 'do' adrenals, so ASK the doctor to order a 4x in one day salivary kit.

Um, I 'did better' with higher carbs around 100 until my thyroid went belly up. Now...um...nope...I have to keep those carbs low..I'm post menopausal (my thyroid made me go completely post meno at the age of 33). So, what 'used to work' doesn't now. The body is ever changing.

I drop weight/size without lifting/exercising. I'd say if you MUST lift, to do slow burn/heavy as possible, as short as possible...and no cardio. If I'd have kept thinking I hadn't 'changed' and stayed at the carb level I was at...um...I would never have gotten leaner at all. If I had kept trying to do HIIT and sprints, and cardio fasted, I would have never healed my adrenals.

I'd like to not be disabled...but it's beyond my grasp and scope now (I'm lung and bone disabled, as well as genetic disability) and I spent a long time 'accepting' that.

I have an explanation for you about 'upping to one grain, yet temp, etc. went down'...i'ts 1. the incoming progesterone binding it and 2. the body gets hungry for the incoming thyroid hormone, and when it FINALLY gets it, it eats it up like a starving man/woman...and until you can raise it some (slowly) it will be a 'two steps forward, one step back' process. It is for ALL of us.

If you want to test where your incoming FT3 really is, you'd want to take HALF your incoming NDT (and you'll want to split it anyway, I think you are aware of that)..and then have the blood drawn almost EXACTLY five hours on the hour later. That will show an FT3 of what your body is actually 'getting/using'. IF your doctor, on the other hand, is a TSH worshipper, that will drop your TSH like a ROCK..mine is always .0023 or around there, and my doctor doesn't even DO TSH on me..just FT's. He is very savvy and KNOWS TSH should ONLY ever be used to 'catch a gross abnormality' in a new patient/screening...certainly not for titration of incoming thyroid hormone replacement (those are his exact words).

I hope this helps you....you need to really rest now..your body and thyroid are telling you that with your 'sickish' reaction. If you are taking a compounded naturethroid, also be aware that the 'filler' can also make you sick. I don't know if Naturethroid (I take Armour, you have to bite down and fragment it) has cellulose filler, but if it does...biting it before swallowing it might help.

Pamzilla13 08-10-2013 09:08 AM

Thank you so much for sharing you experience. I value what you have shared.
Well, I am going to search for Ferritin and get some. Best dose? And when to take it? Wow, I really thought this doc knew his stuff...he wrote the book "From Hormone Hell to Hormone Well." He kept telling me my issue was stress. I had to ask for Thyroid test. Thanks again and I will take your advice on the exercise. My body is screaming for a break and it wasn't "fun" anymore. Live and learn.

Pamzilla13 08-10-2013 09:17 AM

Quick question... I currently take Iron Complex by NOW daily (not with Thyroid hormone... 3 hrs later) should I ditch that and take a ferritin supp? I eat an iron rich diet, but don't know if I should discontinue iron complex and just go ferritin. Thanks.

inatic 08-10-2013 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by Pamzilla13 (Post 16553932)
Thank you so much for sharing you experience. I value what you have shared.
Well, I am going to search for Ferritin and get some. Best dose? And when to take it? Wow, I really thought this doc knew his stuff...he wrote the book "From Hormone Hell to Hormone Well." He kept telling me my issue was stress. I had to ask for Thyroid test. Thanks again and I will take your advice on the exercise. My body is screaming for a break and it wasn't "fun" anymore. Live and learn.

i second all that Lokarbiebarbie said.. but this above says to me that you arent listening to your body. Take some time off. Keep your cals at maintenance and rest while trying to regulate the rest of the hormones. The gym will always be there.

Lokarbiebarbie 08-10-2013 03:25 PM

Iron is what raises ferritin...but you need to separate your thyroid replacement by SIX hours, not three.

Thank you Ileen for chimiing in with your wise words. I knew that you would 'know the training side of things' :)

OH, Dr. Randolph. Oh. Ok..well, he's not as well versed in thyroid as Dr. Jeffrey Dach, who is also in Florida. :)

I found ten doctors who were great with bioidentical HRT but not with thyroid, and didn't understand the 'binding' and 'cortisol' and other issues. I was lucky to find ONE doctor who was good at all of it. But I'm not in Florida, either.

Dr. Dach come highly recommend by no less than 120 patients...and probably more. :) He is well versed in both bio HRT and thyroid. He's in Davie, Fl.

Pamzilla13 08-10-2013 04:01 PM

Thank you inatic!

inatic 08-10-2013 08:27 PM

there is another dr in fl that is excellent too and I cant think of his name atm. ack!

Pamzilla13 08-10-2013 10:13 PM

Thank you Lokarbiebarbie. I do realize that ferritin is iron. I jumped the gun on asking because I am desperate and not thinking at all. but how much more iron should I take than I already am with out taking too much? I ask because I am so screwed up I don;t need to be anymore and can't think anymore. I am confused emotional and exhausted. I will look into Dach for sure. I feel so bad that I am thinking about going to the ER.

inatic 08-11-2013 07:46 AM

I remembered the other dr in florida. Not sure he is near you-
Kenneth Woliner, MD- Boca Raton, Fl

I hope you feel better Pam. :hugs:

Pamzilla13 08-11-2013 09:07 AM

Unfortunately I am in High Springs...north Florida. I could never make the drive in this state. Thanks for the referral. I will keep his name. Thanks!

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