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-   -   Please Help with Labs. Desperate (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/thyroid/774362-please-help-labs-desperate.html)

furlulu 06-13-2012 12:02 PM

Please Help with Labs. Desperate
 
I am in desperate need of some answers and I feel like I am getting no where with doctors. A brief history: I have been suffering from hypothyroidism for 7 years and have been to several doctors. They all had me on armour, but the dose was too low and I felt terrible. A year ago, I found a doctor who started me on bioidentical hormones. He also increased my armour to 120mg in the am and 90mg in the afternoon. I was finally losing weight, although it was not easy. Exercising 1 1/2 a day, six days a week and eating 1300 calories a day. I finally had energy and my depression had gone away. A month ago, I decided to switch docs because I felt like he was messing me up with the bioidenticals. Anyway, my new doc did blood work and said that I tested positive for Hashimoto's. None of my other docs had even tested for this. She also told me that I was on too much armour. She lowered my dose to 120mg am and 60mg pm. She is also working on the hormones. I feel horrible and am gaining weight while still counting calories and exercising. She did another blood test and said that I am still hyper and that she wants me to lower my dose to 60mg am and 60mg pm. I am refusing. I can barely get out of bed let a lone make it through the day. She also wants to take me off of armour and put me on a compounded T4/T3. Here are my labs where she said I was hyper. She said you can be hyper on paper but your symptoms could be hypo? Is this true? I am confused. Everything looks in range unless I am missing something related to Hashimoto's. I know I feel better when I am at the high end of the range. Any help would be appreciated. I am spending a ton of money on Doctor's a going out of my mind.

T4 = 7.5 Range = 4.5 - 12.0
Free T3 = 2.9 Range = 2.5 - 4.3
Free T4 = 1.07 Range = .83 - 1.62
T3 = 123 Range = 80 - 200

watcher513 06-13-2012 04:49 PM

T4 = 7.5 Range = 4.5 - 12.0
Free T3 = 2.9 Range = 2.5 - 4.3
Free T4 = 1.07 Range = .83 - 1.62
T3 = 123 Range = 80 - 200
-----------

I can't figure out why she thinks you're hyper with those numbers.

Mid-range for FT4 is 1.22; you're at 1.07
Mid-range for FT3 is 3.4 and you're at 2.9 and many of us feel better in the upper ranges for FT3.

The other T4 and T3 don't count as they're Total tests. They're below mid-range also.

It's simple math. I wonder what her reasoning is. You're clearly below the mid-ranges for Both FT4 and FT3. All she has to do it get a calculator out like I did.

What was your Hashi's results? Not that it really matters since it's all treated the same, just curious.

I'm almost always a little below mid-range for FT4 but on the other hand I'm usually closer to the 3/4 range for FT3 and feel best there, maybe a hair below.

inatic 06-13-2012 05:03 PM

change your dr. There is another good dr in bklyn.
Google here, forgot his name..

inatic 06-13-2012 05:06 PM

can you go back to old doc and maybe ask to either stop the bhrt or lower it and stablize.
you're not hyper.. I dont see tsh there, could she be looking at that

furlulu 06-13-2012 08:38 PM

Tsh = <.005 Range .270 - 4.2

Anti Thyroglobulin - 53 (Trying to understand the labs, is this Hashi's)
also, positive for epstein barr virus

This bloodwork was done after she lowered my meds to where I feel terrible and am gaining weight. She has started me on estrogen, which the other doc did not have me on. He told me I should not take estrogen if not in menopause. She said that is not true. Tested my estrogen and said it was low. So I just started that today. She said armour isn't good for Hashis. Is putting me on a compounded T4/T3. I am confused. This doc gets good recommendations. She used to share a practice with Dr. Raphael Kellman, who is well know for his thyroid work. I used to go to him, but stopped several years ago. Everyone always told me she was better.

watcher513 06-14-2012 12:45 AM

Armour isn't good for Hashi's? That's a new one. Whether you have Hashi's or not really doesn't matter as it's treated the same way, you're given replacement thyroid hormones, either T4 and/or T3 if you need it. With Hashi's we (collectively) probably will need some T3 at some point in our life if/when it tanks.

The TSH was definitely what she was looking at with that result. Possibly something else is going on with those low Free T's.

inatic 06-14-2012 04:34 AM

does she realize that estrogen BINDS thyroid hormones. That most treated have to raise their meds because of it.

I stopped my estrogen too as it scared me but they need to look at progesterone.. If they add any estrogen, it must be BALANCED to progesterone.

Re hashi's and natural meds.. It can sometimes cause a flair in the antibodies. I have hashi's and when optimally medicated, I know longer flag high but in range.

Here is the dr in bklyn i was thinking of.
David Borenstein, Holistic/complementary/alternative MD, 866 East 29th Street, Brooklyn NY 11210, Tel #718-758-1650, Doctor Borenstein - Rehabilitation Center, dboren@pol.net

furlulu 06-14-2012 04:35 AM

My tsh has been at that number for years. She said that the armour is too close to a what a human produces and that the with Hashi's the body may attack it because it thinks it's a foreign body. So, the meds aren't assimilating properly. I don't know what to believe. She wants to give me T3/T4 combo. Any experience with this? Will I keep gaining weight with this? She wants me to stop the armour for 3 days then start the new meds. I won't be able to get out of bed. Going on vacation on saturday and don't want these meds messing me up. I feel like just starting the new meds without a 3 day break from the armour.

furlulu 06-14-2012 04:37 AM

Ileen, I am on progesterone, but was never put on estrogen with the old doc. I just started the estrogen yesterday. Should I stop it? Thanks for the doc in brooklyn. He's going to be hard for me to get to. Have you heard anything good about Kellman?

inatic 06-14-2012 04:38 AM

she wants to do compounded?
what are the fillers? they are often worse in absorption than natural.

what id do is go on vacation, make no more changes til i got back. If you feel like crap already on reduced meds.... no meds, oy!

Id also consider finding another dr if it were me.

furlulu 06-14-2012 04:40 AM

Ileen, are you on BHRT right now? What thyroid meds do you take? Just armour?

inatic 06-14-2012 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furlulu (Post 15724332)
Ileen, I am on progesterone, but was never put on estrogen with the old doc. I just started the estrogen yesterday. Should I stop it? Thanks for the doc in brooklyn. He's going to be hard for me to get to. Have you heard anything good about Kellman?

on this forum, that name has never come up.

Im not a medical doc, I cant really say.. We can only say our own experiences, which may or may not relate. By your testing, you are not hyper.
I'd also have the docs run Rt3.. There is a whole sticky on it on the forum.

Also you might want to do some reading at stopthyroidmadness.com

inatic 06-14-2012 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furlulu (Post 15724341)
Ileen, are you on BHRT right now? What thyroid meds do you take? Just armour?

i take ERFA (or sometimes ACELLA NP thyroid) and some T3.
Just progesterone, no estrogen.

sometimes supplement with pregnenolone OTC

inatic 06-14-2012 04:43 AM

you might also want to get run a 4x a day saliva test for adrenals.

furlulu 06-14-2012 04:45 AM

the armour I've been taking is compounded and now this new T3/T4 will be compounded as well. I feel like going back to my higher dose of armour and stopping the estrogen, right? I'm all messed up. The other doc increased my testosterone so much that I stopped getting my period, and was losing hair and growing hair at the higher dose. That is why I left him. Every time he would decrease the testosterone, I would get my period, then he would increase it and no period. He said it was a coincedence. Then he wanted to put me on spironolactone to deal with the hair loss, but keep increasing the testosterone. That was just freaking me out so I left him. Haven't had a period since feb.

furlulu 06-14-2012 04:48 AM

One of the many doctors i've been to said my adrenals were tanked, but he was checking this in blood work and trying to address it with herbs. It was very expensive and not working so I moved on. How are low adrenals treated?

furlulu 06-14-2012 04:51 AM

Thank you Ileen, you've been very helpful. I've got some figuring out to do here.

-toni

inatic 06-14-2012 05:01 AM

Hope it straightens out soon.. :console: have a great vacation.

comanchesue 06-15-2012 09:12 AM

Some studies have shown that Armour can excacerbate antibody activity so the new doc is kind of right. I don't know if I'd want compounded T4/T3-you're pretty dependent of the skills of the pharmacist. What about a biodentical combo? i.e. synthroid(or levoxyl, or levothyroxine) and Cytomel (or its generic)? You'd better be able to change how much t4 or t3 you need based on labs. It might be worth a shot to give it a try, I know a couple of people on separate t4/t3 meds who are doing great.

ETA: just saw the post where you say the Armour was compounded, so you weren't taking Armour but a compounded dessicated med?

furlulu 06-16-2012 04:14 AM

The old doctor had me on Armour which I got from a compounding pharmacy. It was in capsule form. The script bottle said armour. This new doc just put me on compounded T3 25 mcg and T4 100 mcg. It is one capsule. I took it yesterday for the first time. I didn't feel as lethargic in the afternoon as I normally do when on the reduced dose of armour. I don't know how long it takes to get into your system, but I'm still somewhat exhausted when waking up. I guess I need more time to gage how I feel.

AddysMommy 07-11-2012 11:14 AM

armour is both t3 and t4 , and initally it may make hashi's a bit worse but that is why it needs to be raised quickly. google Stop the thyroid madness.

brbangl3 07-11-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Tsh = <.005 Range .270 - 4.2
Quote:

The TSH was definitely what she was looking at with that result. Possibly something else is going on with those low Free T's.
Yikes, been there before! Best of luck to you in finding a doctor who will increase your dose with that low TSH. Even my doctor who claims that the TSH is irrelevant in the presence of proper FT3 and FT4 results has freaked out when my TSH has tanked like yours. I was taking Naturethroid at the time, although my TSH remained below the normal range even after I switched to a Synthroid/Cytomel combo later on.

Here's my thread from that experience: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/th...w-tsh-ndt.html There are some interesting responses that may help you.

Lemming 07-11-2012 02:27 PM

I'm on 25 mcg Cytomel and 112 Synthroid, but I take them separately. THat way, I can take the Synthroid once a day and split the Cytomel and take it 4x/day. This has worked great for me (except that my FT4 level keeps tanking in the spring, and then my doc, like yours, gets a bit freaked at my low TSH and is reluctant to medicate me back to where I need to be to feel good...). I've never tried Armour, though, so I can't compare...

Lemming 07-11-2012 02:32 PM

OH, and brbangl3--thanks for bringing up that old thread...great info for me since I'm facing the same problem with my doc (who is otherwise good, tests the frees, is OK with prescribing T3, etc) not wanting to up my meds enough because of the TSH . I have an appointment to go talk to him, so this was very timely info!

brbangl3 07-11-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

OH, and brbangl3--thanks for bringing up that old thread...great info for me since I'm facing the same problem with my doc (who is otherwise good, tests the frees, is OK with prescribing T3, etc) not wanting to up my meds enough because of the TSH . I have an appointment to go talk to him, so this was very timely info!
:up: Sure thing!

furlulu 07-26-2012 12:54 PM

Here's an update. The doc decided to give me 60mg of armour along with the 100mcg of synthroid and 25mcg of cytomel. My free's are way below the normal range. I don't have the numbers in front of me. My tsh is still <.005 range .270 - 4.2. She is claiming that I have been overmedicated. I had a thyroid ultrasound and apparently my thyroid is very tiny. She said because of it being overmedicated. I am confused about how she explained it. Now she is putting me on 125mcg of synthroid and 12.5mcg of cytomel. I am scared of what a reduced amount of t3 is going to do to me. I have been gaining weight despite the fact that I am exercising 75min a day and sticking to 1200 calories.

tmini23 05-24-2013 10:47 AM

Doctor
 
I am with dr. Borenstein now and he is dropping my insurance. Does anyone recommend another doctor in Brooklyn or Staten Island that prescribes cytomel?


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