Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure?

[jeepifer]

Pam, I pm'd you with a some questions, and I'll post them here, too:

1. Could hypothyroid mimic depression? My therapist thinks I'm bi-polar, since she's seen me with "up" times, but overall I don't seem to fit the general manic episodes. I have thought for years that something was/is off with my thyroid, especially since I gained the majority of my weight very quickly, and I haven't been able to get it back off. I've always tested "normal" and the docs blow it off.

2. Someone mentioned pregnancy/childbirth as prime times for changes. I just had my baby in January. Should I go badger my doctor for new tests? My doc, although a very nice man, must think I'm a hypochondriac looking for excuses for being overweight.

3. What would you recommend be my first/next steps?

Thanks for your help. I'm so discouraged I am in tears all the time.

-- Jennifer

[nonstickpam107]

prosc,

The TPO Ag is to detect Hashimoto's antibodies (Hashimoto's hypothyroid). Oh, and have a FREE T3 taken this next time...the progesterone cream could have made the thyroid tests "wonky" too. The thyroid has to have a certain amount of progesterone to work well....and estradiol (estrogen) and did you get a free testosterone taken??

You body is going to absorb "some" of the progesterone cream....if only to send it right to thyroid usage. If it were me (I'm not a doctor...just a thyroid patient advocate), I would want next time: TSH, FT4, FT3, TPO Ag, estradiol, free testosterone along with the ferritin level (and whatever else you feel appropriate).

Again, your low FT4, and your high TSH would make me: sluggish, brain fogged, achey, moody, and would throw my menses off.

Pam

[prosc]

Pam,

Thanks for your quick responses. I thought that they were supposed to to a free T3, but apparently they did not - maybe they confused the T3 Uptake with the Free T3 that I requested.

I did have the testosterone done:
Total 19 range 15-70
Free 3.9 range 1-9.5
Free,Total % 2.05 range .6-1.8

I find it very weird that my free total % is high when the other 2 aren't....

What do you think about me beginning the progesterone cream during the last 14 days of my cycle again? I'm deadlocked between wanting accurate readings and trying to get better as soon as possible...

[nonstickpam107]

Well, if that was a T3 Uptake, then you still do not know where you stand in the T3 department.....but I would want treatment for my high TSH and my low T4 if I were YOU (my opinion based on the fact that your numbers are worse than even mine were when I started treatment).

No, I would want to see an estradiol/progesterone test that said whether I needed the progesterone or not. Thyroid disease screws up your cycles.....it all needs to be taken care of. Once you get the thyroid in line (treated...you still need a TPO Ag), the rest follows.

If it looks like subclinical hypothyroid, and feels/acts like subclinical hypothyroid, it's usually subclinical hypothyroid. Let me know if you have luck getting it treated with a different (hopefully thyroid friendly) doc.

Pam

[Shae]

I am fixin to drive to my doctors office and pick up a copy of my test results. If I post them would you mind telling me what you think?
I am SO depressed about my hair loss. It has been going on for 3 years now and the 2 times I've had thyroid test run they've told me I'm fine. I do think that I tested at a 2.7 but I'm not sure about the other #s. Oh, and my iron was totally fine as well.
I just don't know---something is not right. It's not normal to be losing hair this way. I wanna cry everythime I shower and watch my auburn hair go right down the drain.
BTW---I've tried *everything* for my hair...Rogain,evening primrose oil, zinc and extra c, extra Bs, a high potentcy mult., saw palmetto, Nuhair, and Nioxin shampoo, etc.
I am just so sad abotu this.
Pam, thanks for reading----you truly are an angel to many of us here.

[nonstickpam107]

Shae,

Most who have hypothyroid have a lot more symptoms than just hair loss.....hair loss can also mean you have an adrenal problem, but most with adrenal problems run into thyroid problems too...it's all connected.

I'll be glad to look at your labs...please PM me with them. Oh, and your "iron is normal" doesn't tell me what your ferritin is....low ferritin can be a culprit, too, and a lot of doc's don't realize that....a lot of new studies have been done on ferritin levels in women.....iron isn't "normal" if it's "in range"...it should have been over 50 (but not over the range given).

Thank you for the compliment....I don't want anyone to go undiagnosed and miserable.......like I did for 14 years with my supposedly "normal" labs.

Pam

[Shae]

Pam, I just PMd you.
Thanks,
Shae

[prosc]

Anyone have any updates on what's going on??? I like this thread - I've learned a lot.

[nonstickpam107]

Bumping for newbies.

Pam

[bookyeti]

This is an excellent thread! I was referred here by Richelle. Thank you nonstickPam and others for your insight and experience.

I just printed off a checklist of symptoms of under active thyroid, and I am suffering from every single one of them. Plus my grandmother on my mom's side had hypothyroidism so it runs in the fam.

I've been on Atkins for 45 days now....extremely strict with myself - no cheating, frankenfoods, etc. lots of water and exercise. I just can't seem to lose. I've also gained this weight over the past couple years, for no real explainable reason. I've been eating the same balanced healthy way (not a junkfood person, or over-eater), get a good dose of exercise weekly and I still keep gaining.

Plus these symptoms (especially the extreme fatigue and coldness), which I've been experiencing for over a year now, are getting too much to bear. I was ignoring them for a while, hoping they'd go away - but they're just getting worse. Now I find myself spending most of my time in bed, getting more and more miserable. I don't want to live like this. I'm still young and want to live my life as a healthy 26 year old!

I've never been to a doctor before in my LIFE (I know...weird) and I've never had my blood taken before either. So this will be a first for me. But I know I have to do something to find out what's going on. Your explanation about the tests and details on which tests to have are so helpful. Even though I'm in Holland, I'm sure they perform the same or similar tests.

Thank you again for your help!

PS: If I do go on thyroid medicine if I get diagnosed...does that interfere with oral contraceptives? I take the ALESSE pill.

[nonstickpam107]

I don't want you to waste time (or money), so bookyeti, get a ferritin test and an iron test, too. Both of those, when low, can cause symptoms of hypothyroidism.

The birth control pill is kind of the "other way" in relation to thyroid med. Birth control and HRT of any kind interferes with your absorption and utilization of thyroid hormones. So...you may eventually need a higher dosage of thyroid med to work well in alleviating your symptoms.

Let me know how it goes...I've not had much information as to how thyroid disease is treated in Holland....I do know in the UK and Aus. their health system is very difficult to get proper treatment as to symptoms and lab values (the doc's there don't like to admit it's a "real" disease at times, and as such will not "get with the program" on treating the patient for symptoms, not JUST labs and protocol). If your doctor turns out to be great with treating to a TSH of around 1 and taking into account BOTH T4 AND T3, please let me know.

Good luck in feeling better...remember, it takes a long time with thyroid to get "back to feeling normal" but it's worth persuing treatment.

OH,,,,and remember that soy can be very detrimental to a thyroid disease patient...can really slow a thyroid down, too, making undx'd thyroid disease worse for the patient.

Pam

[brcj4]

I have all the symptoms of Hypo but like everyone elsto the DRe was said to be normal. Recently though I have had heart palpitations I have just brushing it aside thinking either I am stressed or just plain crazy. Are you saying this could be hypo thyroidism too?? I am leary to go to the dr becauseof course I'll be *normal*. ughhhh!!!

[nonstickpam107]

brcj4,

As you can see, the "trick" to getting your thyroid condition treated is to activally take a part in your own care. First thing....go get a copy of your thyroid labs...any and all. I'll take a look at them...PM me, make sure the lab ranges are included with each test.

Next step, if things seem to be pointing in that direction, is to find a doc who knows how to read the tests and treat the disease....I have lists for every state and most countries of "thyroid enlightened" docs that are on the list because their patients put them there.

OH, and if your doc hasn't done the tests, you can go to [[color=red]removed[/color].
and they send you to a lab in your area.....do Thyroid Panel number 2 (II) and give the promotional code: 12345 upon checking out.....these same tests cost up to 400 bucks at a lab, and you will get them for under 90 bucks.

They will send results to YOU (email, fax, etc.) and you can go from there.

Pam

[Shae]

it has Soy Protein Hydrolysate 25mg. Wow, I never even thought about it before. Pam, could this be very bad for my slow thyroid?
TIA!

[nonstickpam107]

It's something YOU would have to find out.....that would bother my absorption of thyroid meds. I don't take any supplements that have any type of soy, starch, additives, dyes, etc. in them, and they are also powdered in capsules for better absorption and also contain selenium, which helps with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism antibodies levels. I take Twinlab Daily One w/o iron. I also take a powdered in capsule cal/mag/zinc and make sure I take that at least four hours from taking my thyroid med.

Pam

[decodiva27]

Hey. Pam. I just got my lab results after doing Atkin's since January. I still show some symptoms of a thyroid problem, but never had my levels checked before. Along with my cholesterol being 244, my thyroid tested as follows-
T3 UPTAKE 22.74 24.4 - 39.1 %
T4, TOTAL 9.0 6.5 - 10.5 MCG/DL
FREE THYROXINE INDEX 6.4 6.0 - 11.4
TSH (3RD GENERATION) 2.045 0.35 - 5.50 MCIU/ML

I got this done through Healthcheck USA. I haven't seen a Dr. yet, and I am not sure if these results would warrant seeing a Dr. (I do not have health insurance right now). Can you make any sense of this?

[nonstickpam107]

T3 uptake is not a test to measure T3. I would want a FT3 test and the antibodies test for Hashimoto's. Even though I would personally feel very hypo with a TSH that high. At least if you felt ok now, but you tested positive to the antibodies, you would know that you would eventually need treatment, as the antibodies would slowly attack and kill the thyroid.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Bumping for new thyroid patients.

Pam

[KristinaL]

Research

[nonstickpam107]

Bump

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Bumping for posters with questions.

Pam

[Rustyjack]

Pam,

My doctor has me on T-100 here is the info on the bottle
Information on T-100:
Each tablet contains Bladderwrach (Source of prolamine iodine) 400mg Irish Moss 40mg Thyroid 100mg Adrenal 50mg Pituitary 15mg Spleen 5mg Thymus 5mg Calcarea florica 6x Lycopus virginicus 6x Suggested Use One tablet twice a day with food or as directed by a qualified health care practitioner. Main Applications: As reported by literature, T-100 helps control hypothyroidism, which is a low thyroid gland function. Glandulars are all from New Zeland."

Have you ever heard of this one? She and some of her staff were taking it and losing weight. I was on Armour 90mg and she changed me the T-100 because my TSH was way too low and the FT-3 and FT-4 was not where she thought it should be. Said something about wanting it above a one. I am getting blood work done again next week to see how I'm doing. Also, getting cortisol, testostrone, progestrone, and estrogen.

Jackie

[CreativeCat]

Hey Pam,

It's great to see this thread again. I finally got my doctor to give me a T3 test. I haven't been feeling "right" for the past 8 years. I kept getting the same answer "your tests show you are getting enough synthroid".

So this time my tests again showed I was in "normal" range but I still have all the symptoms of hypo. My hair was falling out in clumps and I'd stopped losing weight!!! My doctor even said she wanted to lower my dose of Synthroid as she felt it was too high!!

I went to see an endo (a good one listed on the website you gave) and he explained that even though my T3 level was normal and my TSH level was high that the tests could still be missleading and I still could not be converting enough T3. He said that even though my tests showed "normal" the fact that I had hypo symptoms showed him that synthroid alone wasn't working for me. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO LISTENED TO WHAT I WAS SAYING!

So he put me on synthroid along with cytomel (I believe is the same as Armour) 2x per day. I've been on it almost three weeks and I'm starting to feel much better.

Thanks for all you advice on this thread. It helped me a lot and made me take action after years of giving up.

[nonstickpam107]

Jackie,

They would have to pry the Armour out of my cold, dead hands first. Bladderwrack is NOT a good thing for hypo's.....do believe it's goitrogenic. OM...of COURSE the TSH was very low!! That's how Armour works!! You have to about disregard the TSH and go for Free T4 and Free T3 to determine dosage.

Um, most normal women have a TSH of all the way down to .05, as long as the FT4 and FT3 aren't over top of their ranges...with Armour, the FT4 will ALWAYS be lower than the FT3.

You do what feels wonderful to you, though, if switching from a real med, to an undetermined level of thyroid hormone in an supplemental preparation makes you feel really good.....well, than that's the best treatment for you.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Jodinel,

I'm so very glad you got a good doc for your thyroid!! Yeah, I agree about treating symptoms. Um, what you are taking is two synthetic drugs...I take natural thyroid (porcine, from a pig), Armour Thyroid...because.....it's the ONLY thyroid med available on a prescription that has ALL the same thyroid hormones as my real one, T1, T2, T3, T4 and calcitonin.

Always just wonderful to hear I've helped someone through research and knowledge. Thank that doctor for being so wonderful while you are at it!!

Pam

[Rustyjack]

Pam,

I am almost non functioning. Have to take a nap when I get home from work and I sleep all weekend. So, I have started back on a low dose of Armour. (without my doctor knowledge) Hope a couple of weeks on the Armour doesn't mess up my blood work.

She said my TSH was so low it could affect my brain. I think it was 0.02 But the Armour hadn't gotten my T3 & T4 in the range she wanted. At the 90mg I still wasn't feeling great and wanted to see about upping the dose that is when she changed to the T-100. I'll take not feeling great on the 90mg of Armour to the way I feel now.

What should the range for T3 and T4 be?


Jackie

[nonstickpam107]

What is T-100?? Supplements do NOT have any measurable thyroid hormone what so EVER in them....as per the FDA restrictions. Jeez...what the ???? WHY would a doc take away meds (hormones) because of a low TSH??? Hello?? Armour makes the TSH VERY low....and then a doctor has to actually know something about the thyroid hormones themselves.

Please do NOT take Armour without the doc knowing it...you know why?? That doc is going to look at your results next time and say "OH, you are now HYPER (cuz T3 goes to work right away, and your TSH will still be lowish, and now your T3 will be too high...signaling the doc to think you are now "HYPER"), so we will take you off of ALL thyroid meds, bye bye!!"

Your TSH on Armour should be VERY VERY low, your T3 (FT3..NOT a T3 UPTAKE, ok??) will be very high, and your T4 will be very low.

Most normal thyroid patients are looking for a TSH of 1 or under (will be very low if put on T3 of any kind...Armour or Cytomel), and a FT4 and FT3 of around midway or HIGHER in range (since Armour has 80% of T4, and 20% of T3, and T3 is four times as POWERFUL as T4,...well you see above what type of ranges it will produce).

Pam

[Kimmer]

Pam, quick question. I didn't have medical coverage during my job change (sure couldn't afford $700/mo for COBRA!) so although I continued taking my Synthroid, I couldn't afford testing.

So, now I have medical and some of my blood work has come back. I go to see the doctor next week, but the "call in" computer said my thyroid is still low. I'm taking 300 mcg a day (they're oval pills now, but still one pink, one white), and I can't imagine going even higher.

Please don't think I'm a total dunce (half dunce, yeah!), but what did you say I should ask my doctor to order regarding my adrenals? Also, I believe he only ordered a thyroid panel, not 'free' anything.

I want a checklist of what to ask for when I go next week.

Thanks a bunch, I hate to ask you to repeat the info you already gave me!

[kukukachew]

I will state up front that I read the first few posts, but did not read all 9 pages of responses in this thread. If I am repeating something, or if there is some current information that refutes what I post, my apologies.

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism in the late 80s. I had 1/2 of my thyroid removed in 1988. I took thryroid, and then synthroid before the surgery, and was told I needed no supplement after the surgery.

I was a junior assistant hospital administrator at that time. The thing that always concerned me was that the doctors, endocrinologists and primary care physicians alike, and the laboratory staff in two separate hospitals where I worked, all told me that thyroid tests were very inacurate. That the normal ranges were very wide. They all left me with the impression that traditional thyroid tests were not great indicators of true thyroid performance.

I don't know, however, if the acuracy of the tests has improved over the years. Most other technological and scientific aspects of medicine have improved. Maybe thyroid testing has. It's been 15 years.

I am tested from time to time, and with half my thyroid remaining, I am always told I am in normal ranges. I wonder about that sometimes.

[nonstickpam107]

Hi Kimmer,

That much T4 ONLY med ($ynthroid) at your weight...says something about your dosage and med. It says that you NEED T3....badly....you could probably only take about 4 grains of Armour and be just fine and dandy (or maybe even less!!).

Your adrenals are probably great, cuz if you can tolerate that much T4...well, I think you should be using your time and energy into getting some T3 in ya.

In order to do that, you need to see a: TSH, FT4, FT3 (just insist...just tell the doc that you are paying for it!! and NOT a T3 Uptake....don't bother wasting your money for that test).

You want to see that TSH around a 1...on the lower side...I can go all the way down to about a .35 and feel just dandy. You want to see that FT4, and FT3 at OVER the midway of the range, all the way to the top, if that's what it takes.

If you need that doc's list for your state again, just let me know!! Remember that the T3 in mcg. is four times as strong as the T4...so, you would want a lot less Cytomel (synthetic T3, if your doc won't Rx. Armour). I guess you would want to do about 250mcg. of T4 ($ynthroid, Levoxyl, whatever) and start with about 5mcg. of Cytomel in the am, and another 5mcg. in the afternoon to start. Look on www.armourthyroid.com to see the conversion chart on that..for the amount of T4 your are taking.

Let me know how you fare with the testing and all Kimmer...you deserve to feel the very best that you can...especially taking care of your kiddos!!

Pam