Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure?

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by Gracie514

Our bf couple lives in Sharon, PA (and if any of you love chocolate, visit the Daffin's chocolate website Tourism Information for Daffin's Chocolate Candies - The World's Largest Candy Store ) and DH's family near Hubbard, Vienna and out towards Warren, OH.

We come back there a couple of times a year.


Hi Pam! I continually read through your thread for all the great information and tips. I am from Pittsburgh but have been to Sharon numerous times. I believe it's the home of the first "Quaker Steak & Lube" restaurant. They have the best wings in the USA, my favorite being "Louisiana Lickers"! Next time you visit your bf make sure you check it out, the restaurant actually has Nascar cars hanging from the ceiling. Also, when I was little my dad always took us there because there was a speedway. I believe it's called "Sharon Speedway". It's only about a 30 minute drive for me.

On thyroid news, I've been feeling better, don't know why. My endo did say she doesn't think I'm ovulating, can thyroid cause this? In my last test in April I had ample FT4 and low range FT3. So I've stopped eating very LC and started eating alot of spinach,etc. for iron. I've actually lost 8 pounds. The date of my last test was 4/22/08, when should I retest to see if my FT3 has increased?

Once again, thank you for all you do to help.

If you aren't on any thyroid hormone, I'd have the FT's done once a year.

And you're very welcome...I could use some Daffin's candy right about now, lol.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

[QUOTE=olsufka2;10558325]OK MY ANTIBODY TEST RESULTS ARE IN CAN SOMEONE HELP ME INTERPRET THEM?

I'd have the TPO/TSI done again in a year to see any change, but as of right now, they aren't bad. (My TPO came back at 3,000 with that range, and most see around 150 given that lab range if Hashimoto's).

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

[QUOTE=pamlightft;10558593]And, if someone can take a few minutes and chime in on my #s, I'd appreciate it!

Um, it doesn't matter if there is 'ebb and flow'...hence the drop. How much Armour or natural thyroid is the doc gonna give you for your hypothyroidism? Hashimoto's doesn't 'get better' on it's own. The antibodies 'flare' over and over while attacking the thyroid over time and then they receed to attack again. So, antibodies tests are like pregnancy tests...you can't be a 'little bit pregnant' and you can't have just a 'little bit of Hashimoto's'. BTW..why did the doc think a Free T4 was important, but you only have a Total T3? That's kinda apples and oranges there. JMHO

Pam

[AllieCat0817]

I AM NOW OFFICIALLY A WESTHROID PATIENT!!! whooohooooooooooo

My ENT agreed to switch me from synthetic combo to natural!!!! I am major siked.

[tinatina]

Originally Posted by AllieCat0817

I AM NOW OFFICIALLY A WESTHROID PATIENT!!! whooohooooooooooo

My ENT agreed to switch me from synthetic combo to natural!!!! I am major siked.

great news allie, I'm hoping my family dr will be easy to persuade!

[RavenG]

I just sent you a PM.

Thanks!

[PalmTreeGal]

So now I've been on thyroid replacement 2.5 weeks - 1 on levothyroxine, 1.5 on Armour. I've noticed no effects whatsoever (yeah I know I'm impatient!) except that as of today my period is late. I am like clockwork after 14 years on the Pill - always get it late Tuesday or sometime Wednesday. Here it is late Thursday and no cramps, no sign of TOM whatsoever. And don't even say the P word, I'm pretty sure it would have to be an immaculate conception even if I wasn't a faithful Pill taker! I don't normally have any menstrual problems, no heavy bleeding or anything which I know thyroid problems can sometimes cause. But this little change is SO unlike me that it's kind of freaking me out!

Pam, that sucks that it took more than a year for you to feel better! Your situation sounds very serious and complex. Something I don't understand - how does untreated Hashimoto's leave you open to other autoimmune disease? Does treating Hashi's somehow decrease the antibodies attacking other systems?

As far as the rate of increasing the Armour - my doc's office said to increase from 1/2 grain to 1 grain over 2-3 weeks. Yeah, I did it after one week . . . I'm so impatient to feel better after so many years of fatigue and general blah-ness! STTM also recommends moving up fairly quickly. What would be your recommendation on where to go from here? I should be due for labs around the second week of August. I will make sure to get ferritin run then as well.

[pamlightft]

NonstickPam - Thanks for your comments; however, I'm getting from the GP that I don't have a thyroid problem. Maybe he ran the tests because he doesn't really know what to test or look for. After the first TSI reading was high, I read that I should be tested for thyroid antibodies. Even after I obtained a copy of the first lab, the nurse said the doctor said the readings were normal and maybe I needed another test in 6 months. I said no, I wanted the antibody test. So, in addition to the antibody test, the doctor ordered a retest for the TSI. Obviously, the people in this forum highly value your opinion. Do you think I should see an endocrinologist to conduct a proper set of tests? Thanks again! Pam L.

[entwyf]

I first posted about my thyroid concerns on July 2. I got some very useful feedback from this ongoing discussion.

I went to see my primary care doctor on July 9. I wrote a letter to the doctor before the visit and expressed my desire to have more done than a test for TSH levels. We talked about my blood test for TSH which was--no surprise--low normal the way it ALWAYS is. She said she would be willing to test for T3 and T4.

No other doctor has ever done more than give me a lot of well-meaning crap about how low normal TSH is not a problem.

I have my fingers crossed that SOMETHING will turn up.

Edith

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by PalmTreeGal

So now I've been on thyroid replacement 2.5 weeks - 1 on levothyroxine, 1.5 on Armour. I've noticed no effects whatsoever (yeah I know I'm impatient!) except that as of today my period is late. I am like clockwork after 14 years on the Pill - always get it late Tuesday or sometime Wednesday. Here it is late Thursday and no cramps, no sign of TOM whatsoever. And don't even say the P word, I'm pretty sure it would have to be an immaculate conception even if I wasn't a faithful Pill taker! I don't normally have any menstrual problems, no heavy bleeding or anything which I know thyroid problems can sometimes cause. But this little change is SO unlike me that it's kind of freaking me out!

Pam, that sucks that it took more than a year for you to feel better! Your situation sounds very serious and complex. Something I don't understand - how does untreated Hashimoto's leave you open to other autoimmune disease? Does treating Hashi's somehow decrease the antibodies attacking other systems?

As far as the rate of increasing the Armour - my doc's office said to increase from 1/2 grain to 1 grain over 2-3 weeks. Yeah, I did it after one week . . . I'm so impatient to feel better after so many years of fatigue and general blah-ness! STTM also recommends moving up fairly quickly. What would be your recommendation on where to go from here? I should be due for labs around the second week of August. I will make sure to get ferritin run then as well.

My suggestion would be to wait about three months and see how ya feel on that one grain. Antibiotics make you feel better (noticeable difference) from one week to another, hormones take about three months (and btw, what about having your estradiol, progesterone done too? That may be a consideration if this doesn't help you feel better, it could be a total imbalance of those hormones too).

If you have ANY autoimmune disease it leaves the patient with a propensity to have another autoimmune disease, but two of my autoimmune diseases are also considered somewhat familial and genetic.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by pamlightft

NonstickPam - Thanks for your comments; however, I'm getting from the GP that I don't have a thyroid problem. Maybe he ran the tests because he doesn't really know what to test or look for. After the first TSI reading was high, I read that I should be tested for thyroid antibodies. Even after I obtained a copy of the first lab, the nurse said the doctor said the readings were normal and maybe I needed another test in 6 months. I said no, I wanted the antibody test. So, in addition to the antibody test, the doctor ordered a retest for the TSI. Obviously, the people in this forum highly value your opinion. Do you think I should see an endocrinologist to conduct a proper set of tests? Thanks again! Pam L.

Here's what you wrote:

thyroid stimulating immunoglob at 141 (reference interval 0-129) - flagged "high"

Thyroxine (T4), Free, Direct .04 (interval .61-1.76)
TSH 1.605 (interval .350-5.500)
Triiodothyronine (T3) 133 (interval 85-205)

It 'smacks' of Hashimoto's. Ok? But Hashi's isn't called the "Rollercoaster disease" for nuttin'. It goes back and forth, up and down. Your doc sees the extremely low FT4, assumes a total T3 is 'good enough' and sees the TT3 at a 'highish' level, THINKS a TSH of 1.6 is 'hyper low' cuz he prolly won't treat one even at a freakin' 3 and now running a TSI to 'prove' Graves HYPER autoimmune.

And if you've read this thread you know full well how I feel about running anything by most endo's.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by entwyf

I first posted about my thyroid concerns on July 2. I got some very useful feedback from this ongoing discussion.

I went to see my primary care doctor on July 9. I wrote a letter to the doctor before the visit and expressed my desire to have more done than a test for TSH levels. We talked about my blood test for TSH which was--no surprise--low normal the way it ALWAYS is. She said she would be willing to test for T3 and T4.

No other doctor has ever done more than give me a lot of well-meaning crap about how low normal TSH is not a problem.

I have my fingers crossed that SOMETHING will turn up.

Edith

Well, Edith, that's great. But you could of gone to Online Lab Tests: blood work, blood testing and laboratory tests and gotten Thyroid profile II yourself (TSH, FT3, FT4) and had it in hand by now. Oh, and give coupon code: 12345 when checking out for a discount. They send you to a lab near YOU and report back to you.

If you're on any birth control or other hormones, you need Free T's, not Total T's, and your doc might want to do a TPO antibodies too (you can get that above at the link too).

Pam

[Beth1121]

Mandy - When I first started getting treatment, I was incredibly late with my period the first month. I asked my doc about it, and he said it was normal because the meds were messing with my hormones.

[inatic]

when i started thyroid treatment i didnt realize i was feeling better till i realized i wasnt feeling bad! that was in a month.. it continued to get better after that.

[Beth1121]

My latest labs:

Free T4: 1.54 (range 0.61-1.76)
TSH: 0.004 (range 0.350-5.500)
Cortisol: 2.6 (range 3.1-22.4)
TPO: 87 (range 0-34)
Antithyroglobulin Ab: 25 (range 0-40)
Free T3: 3.5 (range 2.3-4.2)

Doc's comments: Adrenals low & stressed. Will address treatment at next appointment. Free T3 should improve with additional Armour.

I am now taking 112 mcg of Levoxyl and 90 mg Armour daily. I feel okay....not awesone or great but okay and a million times better than this time last year. I still seem to get tired too easily and seem to need extra time to recover from strenuous activities. Very happy and pleased with treatment from this doc. He's a keeper.

The cortisol test was a blood test done at approx. 11:30 or 12:00. I have heard that the 24 hr. saliva test is better, but mine still came in low, so I'm not gonna stress about which test he used.

My question: Should I call and ask to be treated now for the low cortisol or wait until next appointment? I understand very little about adrenals/cortisol levels. Time to start researching.

[Beth1121]

Originally Posted by inatic

when i started thyroid treatment i didnt realize i was feeling better till i realized i wasnt feeling bad! that was in a month.. it continued to get better after that.

I was the same except it was longer than a month before I started feeling better.

[Lilgrnize]

Beth, that cortisol is pretty low, even for midday. I'm on bio-identical hydrocortisone for hypoadrenal. My cortisol is pretty high in the morning, but plummets by midmorning and I'm not functional the rest of the day (without the HC). I think all docs (even the good ones) have different views on testing adrenals. My doc doesn't think the 24 hr saliva is accurate and prefers to use a.m. cortisol, along with how you feel throughout the day, sleeping patterns, lifestyle, etc. to diagnose. I had to give him alot of detail about how I felt, what time I would feel the ups and downs, what kind of activity I was doing when I felt them, what time I would wake up during the night, how long I was awake, my stress levels at home and at work, etc. After 2 yrs on HC, I finally slept through an entire night for the first time in 15-20 years! An added plus, the HC is helping decrease my antibody count (from around 3000 to the 900's).

Is there a particular reason he has you on synthetic t4 and armour? Your ft4 is at about 81% of the range, and the ft3 at 63%. I would probably feel better with those numbers reversed, which probably would happen on armour only. Just a random thought, and I may be way off track.

Mandy, I think everyone will feel improvement on a different schedule, depending on where they are when they start treatment. My doc told me, with my level of damage, I could expect to start feeling not so bad in about 2 years (he was right) and human in 4 yrs...great a few years after that. Like Ileen, I don't really notice feeling better, but I suddenly realize I don't feel so bad. I ran the vacuum long enough to do a full room last weekend...I know that sounds silly, but 2 yrs ago, I was too weak to do more than a 3 foot area, and if I pushed through and finished a room, I was in bed and worthless for 2 days. Those are the things that let you know you're getting better...you will start to do things that were hard to manage before without thinking about it, and have this "wow" moment when you finish.

[RavenG]

Okay....got my results back from my bloodwork on Monday.

TSH : 6.35
FT3 - 374 (Range 230 - 420)
FT4 - .9 (Range .58 - 1.64)
Thyroid Antibodies - 160 (Range <35)
Anti Thyroid Globulin - 41 (Range <20)

She also did a Rheumatoid Arthritis test (every female on my mother's side has this and it usually starts in their late 20's to early 30's...I just turned 42 yesterday)

Rheumatoid - 30 (Range is <20)

My Cholesterol was as follows

Total - 238
Trigylcerides - 94
HDL - 69
LDL - 150

(This was MUCH better than the last one done a year ago)

[Beth1121]

Originally Posted by Lilgrnize

Is there a particular reason he has you on synthetic t4 and armour? Your ft4 is at about 81% of the range, and the ft3 at 63%. I would probably feel better with those numbers reversed, which probably would happen on armour only. Just a random thought, and I may be way off track.

Thanks for the input about the adrenal stuff. I've read so much contradictary stuff about it from what I would call reputable sources that I'm kinda at a loss as to know what is the right path to take.

About the Levoxyl and Armour combo: I asked my doc about it, and he said that in his and his patients' experience that was usually what worked best. He said that in order to get most patients feeling better that Armour alone didn't usually work because in order to get the T4 levels where they need to be that many times patients were getting too much T3 with Armour alone. He does have some patients who do take Armour only, and he is not against it if I want to try it since he wants what is best for me. I know that I am feeling so, so, so much better than before that I feel no need to tinker with it since it is apparently working for me. I've read in a couple other places that this combo therapy works well for many patients. I'll ask him to change it if I ever feel that it is no longer the best plan for me.

Oh, yeah. I need to add that I am not optimized yet. I have only been getting treatment since the end of November. We are still slowly amping up my meds. I just know that I feel worlds better than I did this time last year. I was sooooo miserable before. I still am not sure what normal feels like. I can't even remember what that's like, but I'm much closer to it than I was before going to this doc.

Thanks again for your input. There is so much to learn.

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by Beth1121

My latest labs:

Free T4: 1.54 (range 0.61-1.76)
TSH: 0.004 (range 0.350-5.500)
Cortisol: 2.6 (range 3.1-22.4)
TPO: 87 (range 0-34)
Antithyroglobulin Ab: 25 (range 0-40)
Free T3: 3.5 (range 2.3-4.2)

Doc's comments: Adrenals low & stressed. Will address treatment at next appointment. Free T3 should improve with additional Armour.

I am now taking 112 mcg of Levoxyl and 90 mg Armour daily. I feel okay....not awesone or great but okay and a million times better than this time last year. I still seem to get tired too easily and seem to need extra time to recover from strenuous activities. Very happy and pleased with treatment from this doc. He's a keeper.

The cortisol test was a blood test done at approx. 11:30 or 12:00. I have heard that the 24 hr. saliva test is better, but mine still came in low, so I'm not gonna stress about which test he used.

My question: Should I call and ask to be treated now for the low cortisol or wait until next appointment? I understand very little about adrenals/cortisol levels. Time to start researching.

I would want the 4x in one day salivary testing. And also tested with it: estradiol and progesterone. I think having that huge amount and lab with T4 isn't helping your adrenals. Much too high and unbalanced to the T3. Normal human thyroid would have the FT4 at about midway of it's lab range and your FT3 slightly HIGHER...having labs in the range yours are would stress MY adrenals too.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by RavenG

Okay....got my results back from my bloodwork on Monday.

TSH : 6.35
FT3 - 374 (Range 230 - 420)
FT4 - .9 (Range .58 - 1.64)
Thyroid Antibodies - 160 (Range <35)
Anti Thyroid Globulin - 41 (Range <20)

She also did a Rheumatoid Arthritis test (every female on my mother's side has this and it usually starts in their late 20's to early 30's...I just turned 42 yesterday)

Rheumatoid - 30 (Range is <20)

My Cholesterol was as follows

Total - 238
Trigylcerides - 94
HDL - 69
LDL - 150

(This was MUCH better than the last one done a year ago)

Include your hormones and dosage please?

Pam

[RavenG]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Include your hormones and dosage please?

Pam

I'm taking Armour at 60 mg.

[Beth1121]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

I would want the 4x in one day salivary testing. And also tested with it: estradiol and progesterone. I think having that huge amount and lab with T4 isn't helping your adrenals. Much too high and unbalanced to the T3. Normal human thyroid would have the FT4 at about midway of it's lab range and your FT3 slightly HIGHER...having labs in the range yours are would stress MY adrenals too.

Pam

Now I'm really confused. Reason being that I feel so much better than before treatment. I know I'm not there yet and have suspected adrenal fatigue all along as an additional issue. Oh, my, I'm not quite sure how to proceed from here.

I'll ask about the testing that you suggested. Do you think the T4 is too high due to my combo dosing with Levoxyl and Armour? I don't think my doc will be upset at all about me questioning him as long as I can explain how I am coming up with my concerns. He is very serious about thyroid research and very open to what works best for his patients.

Also, if I end up feeling really good, do the labs even mean anything?

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by RavenG

I'm taking Armour at 60 mg.

If you aren't splitting that, I'd start, and you've got a long way to go....I'd say time for an increase.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by Beth1121

Now I'm really confused. Reason being that I feel so much better than before treatment. I know I'm not there yet and have suspected adrenal fatigue all along as an additional issue. Oh, my, I'm not quite sure how to proceed from here.

I'll ask about the testing that you suggested. Do you think the T4 is too high due to my combo dosing with Levoxyl and Armour? I don't think my doc will be upset at all about me questioning him as long as I can explain how I am coming up with my concerns. He is very serious about thyroid research and very open to what works best for his patients.

Also, if I end up feeling really good, do the labs even mean anything?

Let me try and put it another way. Most patients are getting synthetic T4 ONLY and are out there looking for T3 to go with it. You're taking synthetic T4 then you're putting some natural T4 with it (Armour has 37mcg. of T4 in it, and 9mg. T3) and then only putting a little smidgen of T3 with it. So, LOT'S of T4 which you aren't converting, and a little smidgen of T3.

There was a doctor recently that wrote a book on what works best..and he said just a smidgen of T3 to a LOT of T4. Every one of we patients who read it said 'Yeah..right..not!' and his book didn't go over so well with patients..BUT everywhere I went for a solid year after that book was written I'd hear it's title roll off the lips of every doctor I spoke too. LOL It was an 'easy' treatment for the doc, but didn't work for the patients at all. But they were doing it. ???

I don't think one blood draw for cortisol means squat...what time did you take the T4 in relation to the blood draw? What time the Armour in relation? If you took ALL that in the morning, then by noon ish the adrenals would have been 'off' anyway.

Lots of T4 that's not being converted is hard on the adrenals.

Well, you can SEE how hugely high the T4 is and how very low the FT3 is. And that would overwork adrenals. And you should have had adrenal testing before being given thyroid hormone. I just think, if I were YOU, I'd want a little less T4 and a little more T3.

Think about it: Armour (pig) Thyroid mimics a human thyroid well. There's very little T4 and higher T3. Your doctor is giving you very high T4 and hardly any T3. And he's right...you need more Armour...but less synthetic T4, that's for sure. Less of anything synthetic we put in our bodies is a good thing. My doctor will give synthetics..to those who cannot tolerate natural or are allergic to it/religious reasons. I think he has two patients taking synthetic thyroid hormone.

Pam

[PalmTreeGal]

I finally did get my period very late Thursday. I am noticing other effects from the Armour though, like increased GI motility and insomnia. I also quit Cymbalta this week and I am noticing weird stuff from that (moody, binge-y, "brain shivers," dizziness) and am having some major life stress and I really don't have a clue what symptom is what. I have quit multiple SSRI type antidepressants in the past so I know the brain stuff is from that, but the other symptoms could be either. It's all a mess right now.

Pam - three months on 60 mg Armour before a change? Oh man, it could take years to get to an effective dosage on that kind if schedule! Not saying you're wrong, I just am so eager to feel better/normal if that is even possible.

[RavenG]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

If you aren't splitting that, I'd start, and you've got a long way to go....I'd say time for an increase.

Pam

I just started splitting it yesterday after noticing that I'm exhausted again by early to mid afternoon. Any ideas on why my TSH is still so high when the FT3 and FT4 look like they are somewhat normal?

[RubenO]

Hi Friends,

I am a really big guy weighing in at 510 lbs 6'-1" at 37 years old and big boned. I was thin up to my late teens and then started gaining weight. Over the last 20 years, I always thought it was a phase that would pass but obviously it wasn't. I really never ate bad, just late hours due to my lifestyle. I tried several diets and lost slowly if not at all.

Well for the first time in the last 20 years I just had my blood-work done. I have learned that I have a low FT4 level. The question is that I don't know if it is real low or a little low. The doctor put me on 32 mg of Armour which he indicated for me to take each morning a half hour before eating.

My TSH3 is 4.102 (The Reference Range 0.350-5.500)
My FT3 is 3.01 (The Reference Range 2.30-4.20)
My FT4 is 0.84 (The Reference Range 0.89-1.76)

I posted a PDF link to my complete lab work and EKG
http://www.loutrixrecords.com/Medical-CL-1.pdf

Does this now mean my weight will start to drop?
I was hoping someone here can make some better sense of it

Thanks
Ruben

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by RavenG

I just started splitting it yesterday after noticing that I'm exhausted again by early to mid afternoon. Any ideas on why my TSH is still so high when the FT3 and FT4 look like they are somewhat normal?

I don't think your FT4 looks anywhere near normal. And TSH can vary up to three points in any given day. It looks as if you have a long way to go...meaning this will take time. Plus it's not enough to lower TSH, just enough to raise the FT3.

Also, you want to test almost exactly four hours after you have taken first split dosage to get accurate FT3 testing..it looks as if you tested right after taking it (within a couple of hours).

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by RubenO

Hi Friends,

I am a really big guy weighing in at 510 lbs 6'-1" at 37 years old and big boned. I was thin up to my late teens and then started gaining weight. Over the last 20 years, I always thought it was a phase that would pass but obviously it wasn't. I really never ate bad, just late hours due to my lifestyle. I tried several diets and lost slowly if not at all.

Well for the first time in the last 20 years I just had my blood-work done. I have learned that I have a low FT4 level. The question is that I don't know if it is real low or a little low. The doctor put me on 32 mg of Armour which he indicated for me to take each morning a half hour before eating.

My TSH3 is 4.102 (The Reference Range 0.350-5.500)
My FT3 is 3.01 (The Reference Range 2.30-4.20)
My FT4 is 0.84 (The Reference Range 0.89-1.76)

I posted a PDF link to my complete lab work and EKG
http://www.loutrixrecords.com/Medical-CL-1.pdf

Does this now mean my weight will start to drop?
I was hoping someone here can make some better sense of it

Thanks
Ruben

Hi Ruben, are those labs AFTER taking the Armour? You could prolly handle a full grain of Armour (split..half in am, half in pm). And you should know that one grain (60mg.) of Armour contains 37mcg. of T4 and 9mg of T3 (so you're on half of that, meaning you aren't coming close to being able to have enough Armour to help ya...my DH is on 4 grains, to give you an idea).

It means once you are optimized on the correct dosage of Armour you may feel normal enough to exercise, eat well and lose some weight. Thyroid isn't all about weight. It's about outlook and feeling well enough to put effort into weightloss.

You big guys tend to lose weight quickly once you start a lowcarb lifestyle with support..we see that here at LCF. (Not lookin' at the rest of your labs cuz I just don't have time).

Pam