Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure?

[Tea Cozy]

She wrote an order for me to get my labs done in May - whenever I feel like it, lol!

What should I look for in the meantime? My dose is really low, 12 mcg/day. Is that enough to be effective?

[nonstickpam107]

I haven't found many hypothyroid individuals who do well on JUST taking T3. Depends on your labs (get a FT4, FT3 and see where you are). Most WOMEN do very well on Armour Thyroid cuz they get a lowered FT4, heightened FT3 along with both T1 and T2. When you get your FT's get the lab results WITH the ranges on them.

I wouldn't want a synthetic T3, first of all (but would if I couldn't get anything else) but don't like the 'feeling' of JUST T3...I like a balance. Some doctors think just because you need T3, that they are 'bypassing' giving T4 which must convert, by giving ONLY T3. It doesn't happen that way. The human body likes a balance. Your own thyroid (if it could) makes T1, T2, T3, T4 and you need at least a balance between T4 and T3. Then again, you might be the very FIRST person who's female who likes taking T3 ONLY.

And I take 27mg. T3 a day ( in 3 grains Armour Thyroid) and 111mcg. T4 (Armour 3 grains). And I split the dosage up. T3 only has a half life of a few hours at best so you'd want to split your dose and take 1/2 in am and half in early afternoon, OR most people have it Rx'd and made up in 5cg. dosage to take in splits.

Pam

[Tea Cozy]

Hmmmmm.. okay. I'll keep an eye on what's going on, and see how I'm feeling.

Thank you!

[ReneeBW]

Can I ask a question that's been bothering me for awhile.

How many carbs (not net carbs) should someone with hypothyrodism and trying to lose weight take in, in a day?

And is there a specific low carb plan that works better than others to lose?

TIA!

[nonstickpam107]

Most hypothyroid patients with incoming replacement hormone should be getting 30Net grams carb along WITH above 1300 calories a day.

And exercise.

Pam

[backyardigans]

I'm new to this forum. Never posted before but I do have Hypothyrodism and have had it since 32. I'm now 59. I have a fight with every new doctor I see because I don't register correctly on the TSH. I have to go by the T3 and T4. The TSH shows me to be overdosing when I'm not. So always get you T's done and go by them if the TSH shows you to be OK. I'm also looking into a lot of infor on candida yeast infections. It's amazing how many different diagnosises can be linked to this and the doctors won't talk about it. Fibromyalgia (sp) along with a zillion other things have been linked. I went on line and there were over 500 sites about this. It's even been linked to things like bipolar disorder. Just thought I would share. thanks for listening

[carrielyn]

New numbers after being on 75 mcg Synthroid and 6.25 of Cytomel. The doctor suggested simply cutting the pill in half instead of quarters so I'll be on 7.5 probably starting in the morning.

Thyroid Panel with TSH, 3rd Generation
T-3 uptake 32 22-35%
T-4 (Thyroxine, Total 8.4 4.5-12.5 mcg/dL
Free T4 2.7 1.4-3.8
Free T3 357 (230-420 pg/dL)

TSH, 3rd Generation .49 0.40-4.50 mIU/L

Any opinions?

Thanks,

[DebM]

Pam,

I just sent you a PM with my results, so confusing......

Debbie

[NutinHonie]

Pam, I've been reading this thread for months with great interest. I thank you for your time and wisdom! I finally got around to getting my FT3/FT4 tested along with my [normal] TSH. My PCP of ten years has left the area, so I've found myself without a doctor to rely on. I went through Healthcheck for these test. So, now I have some apparently normal results. I feel like doggy doo. Now, what do I do? ARE these results normal?

Test Description Result Range Units

TSH 2.15 ... [ 0.350-5.500 uIU/mL ]

Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.1 ... [ 2.3-4.2 pg/mL ]

T4,Free(Direct) 1.18 ...[ 0.61-1.76 ng/dL ]

[nonstickpam107]

Carrielyn, those are pretty good numbers! The FT3 could still come up some, and so could the FT4.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by NutinHonie

Pam, I've been reading this thread for months with great interest. I thank you for your time and wisdom! I finally got around to getting my FT3/FT4 tested along with my [normal] TSH. My PCP of ten years has left the area, so I've found myself without a doctor to rely on. I went through Healthcheck for these test. So, now I have some apparently normal results. I feel like doggy doo. Now, what do I do? ARE these results normal?

Test Description Result Range Units

TSH 2.15 ... [ 0.350-5.500 uIU/mL ]

Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.1 ... [ 2.3-4.2 pg/mL ]

T4,Free(Direct) 1.18 ...[ 0.61-1.76 ng/dL ]

Who's calling them normal? The TSH is way too high for ME, personally (mine is kept about .10 to .33) and the FT3 is quite low, and so is the FT4.

Pam

[NutinHonie]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Who's calling them normal? The TSH is way too high for ME, personally (mine is kept about .10 to .33) and the FT3 is quite low, and so is the FT4.

Pam

OK, so NO BODY actually SAID they were normal. Just from the numbers on the page, they are considered "within normal limits". It's obvious that these numbers just can't be taken alone as what should be "normal" for me.

I'm just confused, I guess. Do I take these numbers to a doctor and tell him/her that although I look good on paper, I'm NOT GOOD?

I've scoped out a doctor in the area. Although he is an ENT specialist, he does work with thyroid patients. He may share your opinion, or he may just be like so many other docs who give the usual "looks good to me" opinion and send me on my way. All I know is that I don't feel right.

[carrielyn]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Carrielyn, those are pretty good numbers! The FT3 could still come up some, and so could the FT4.

Pam

Perhaps the additional 1.25 of Cytomel will bring the FT3 up some. They did suggest going up to .88 on the Synthroid. Perhaps I should fill that prescription. I'm feeling pretty good for the most part but if that slight increase of both FT3/4 would help me feel better that would be very good.

Thanks for your input, it is VERY MUCH appreciated.

[MistyJ]

Hi Pam, can I get your input on my numbers please?

I have Hashi's and have had my thyroid removed. Don't know if that makes a difference.

I was taking Armour thryoid 120mg

My results:

Free T3 4.53 range 1.50 - 4.10
Free T4 0.97 range 0.20 - 1.60
TSH 0.010 range 0.400 - 4.000

She lowered my dose of thryoid to 90mg. I have never had my dose lowered! Do you think I am hyper? That is what she told me. I sure don't feel hyper.

Thank you for your help.

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by NutinHonie

OK, so NO BODY actually SAID they were normal. Just from the numbers on the page, they are considered "within normal limits". It's obvious that these numbers just can't be taken alone as what should be "normal" for me.

I'm just confused, I guess. Do I take these numbers to a doctor and tell him/her that although I look good on paper, I'm NOT GOOD?

I've scoped out a doctor in the area. Although he is an ENT specialist, he does work with thyroid patients. He may share your opinion, or he may just be like so many other docs who give the usual "looks good to me" opinion and send me on my way. All I know is that I don't feel right.

Um, you haven't read this thread? (not gettin' on ya, but your questions are answered in the thread).

ENT's aren't very good with thyroid in my opinion (in my area and others), and first you go to ArmourThyroid and use their 'docfinder' to see if there are some Armour Rx'ing docs. Secondly, I do have lists of patient recommended thyroid docs, not all are 'good' and not all do the FT's and not all go by the 'new TSH range'. But, if you've read this thread you know that TSH is a test of the pituitary, and that you also need anti TPO antibodies to rule out Hashimoto's.

I'd feel like crap on a stick if my TSH were that high, and I have Hashimoto's (two out of every ten women have Hashi's).

If you've read the thread, you know that about 80% of 'regular doctors and endo's' think the TSH is fine anywhere in range, and same with FT's, and about 70% feel that T3 isn't important

So, use the Armour site docfinder first (uses zipcodes, put in zips for up to a radius of 2 HOURS driving time). Oh, and most patients see five docs before they find one that helps...although I've heard I can narrow it down to two with the lists and sites and Yahoo thyroid patient groups (look at Yahoo groups and find YOUR state thyroid support group and join it).

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by carrielyn

Perhaps the additional 1.25 of Cytomel will bring the FT3 up some. They did suggest going up to .88 on the Synthroid. Perhaps I should fill that prescription. I'm feeling pretty good for the most part but if that slight increase of both FT3/4 would help me feel better that would be very good.

Thanks for your input, it is VERY MUCH appreciated.

Carrielyn, if you feel good where ya are, than stay there! Or...just add it in, and if it doesn't feel quite as good, than go back to the dose you are on for some more time. Good to hear from you! My new job keeps me SO busy, I barely have any internet time anymore.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by MistyJ

Hi Pam, can I get your input on my numbers please?

I have Hashi's and have had my thyroid removed. Don't know if that makes a difference.

I was taking Armour thryoid 120mg

My results:

Free T3 4.53 range 1.50 - 4.10
Free T4 0.97 range 0.20 - 1.60
TSH 0.010 range 0.400 - 4.000

She lowered my dose of thryoid to 90mg. I have never had my dose lowered! Do you think I am hyper? That is what she told me. I sure don't feel hyper.

Thank you for your help.

How long ago did you have the thyroid removed, and how long have you been taking the 120mg. dosage? You are over range on your FT3 (not by much and my doc would have suggested I do 'Creative Pill Cutting 101' and shave off a teensy bit of the Armour.

OH...are you splitting that Armour 120mg? Were you I mean? Cuz you shouldn't take that all at once, and you should have taken it almost EXACTLY four hours before the blood draw for the test.

Pam

[carrielyn]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Carrielyn, if you feel good where ya are, than stay there! Or...just add it in, and if it doesn't feel quite as good, than go back to the dose you are on for some more time. Good to hear from you! My new job keeps me SO busy, I barely have any internet time anymore.

Pam

I, fortunately, react quickly to any changes in my thyroid meds so in a week or two I should know which dosage will do best for me. Thanks for your input.

Work is good, makes the day go by in a hurry but as we get older it certainly does take a toll on us. I average 45-50 hours a week at my job and as I approach 60 I find that I'm just not handling it as well as I did even just last year. I would love to be able to retire at 62+ but I think realistically I will have to work until I can get full retirement.

We all appreciate the time you are able to get on the internet. The information you have posted here as been very helpful to me, and I'm sure others, in getting my meds straight. Amazing how one very small organ can wreck so much havoc on our poor bodies.

Take care of yourself and don't overdo if possible.

[MistyJ]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

How long ago did you have the thyroid removed, and how long have you been taking the 120mg. dosage? You are over range on your FT3 (not by much and my doc would have suggested I do 'Creative Pill Cutting 101' and shave off a teensy bit of the Armour.

OH...are you splitting that Armour 120mg? Were you I mean? Cuz you shouldn't take that all at once, and you should have taken it almost EXACTLY four hours before the blood draw for the test.

Pam

Thank you Pam for your time.

I had the thryoid removed just a little over a year ago. But I have times when my neck feels "full" just like when I had my thryroid.

I started Armour about this time last year. Before that I was on Synthroid, 125 mcg. Started reading you, had cytomel added cause I couldn't get Armour. Finally found a nurse practitioner that scripted me Armour (thru the dr she worked with). She started me on 60 mg 2x a day. So yes, I was taking it twice daily, not all at once.

The blood draw was more than 4 hours after I took my dose. Does it have to be exactly 4 hours?

I moved to a different state, found a dr off one of the lists for armour, and I am going to find that list and unrecommend her! She freaked about the low TSH, tried to put me on Lexapro for my anxiety. I am ALWAYS anxious when I go to a dr cause I am so tired of being let down by them. I tried to reason with her nurse over the phone. She told me I would have to make an appt and come in and talk to the dr.

It is good to know that your dr would have you cut your pill some. I have a new dr I will be going to. I hope they will understand that I know my body more than they do. I really don't feel hyper like the dr says I am. I do know what hyper is since I have Hashi. Those days I can clean my whole house.

Moving is the pits. Since I came here, they took away my bio-identical creams and cut down my dose of Armour. Okay, now I am just dr ranting!

Pam, Thank you for answering my questions. I really appreciate the time you put towards educating us.

[NutinHonie]

Sorry for the rhetorical questions asked in frustration. Of course my questions have been answered already in this very informative thread. So I guess I will begin my search for a doctor. I really appreciate the time and energy you give in educating everyone.

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Um, you haven't read this thread? (not gettin' on ya, but your questions are answered in the thread).

ENT's aren't very good with thyroid in my opinion (in my area and others), and first you go to ArmourThyroid and use their 'docfinder' to see if there are some Armour Rx'ing docs. Secondly, I do have lists of patient recommended thyroid docs, not all are 'good' and not all do the FT's and not all go by the 'new TSH range'. But, if you've read this thread you know that TSH is a test of the pituitary, and that you also need anti TPO antibodies to rule out Hashimoto's.

I'd feel like crap on a stick if my TSH were that high, and I have Hashimoto's (two out of every ten women have Hashi's).

If you've read the thread, you know that about 80% of 'regular doctors and endo's' think the TSH is fine anywhere in range, and same with FT's, and about 70% feel that T3 isn't important

So, use the Armour site docfinder first (uses zipcodes, put in zips for up to a radius of 2 HOURS driving time). Oh, and most patients see five docs before they find one that helps...although I've heard I can narrow it down to two with the lists and sites and Yahoo thyroid patient groups (look at Yahoo groups and find YOUR state thyroid support group and join it).

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by MistyJ

Thank you Pam for your time.

I had the thryoid removed just a little over a year ago. But I have times when my neck feels "full" just like when I had my thryroid.

I started Armour about this time last year. Before that I was on Synthroid, 125 mcg. Started reading you, had cytomel added cause I couldn't get Armour. Finally found a nurse practitioner that scripted me Armour (thru the dr she worked with). She started me on 60 mg 2x a day. So yes, I was taking it twice daily, not all at once.

The blood draw was more than 4 hours after I took my dose. Does it have to be exactly 4 hours?

I moved to a different state, found a dr off one of the lists for armour, and I am going to find that list and unrecommend her! She freaked about the low TSH, tried to put me on Lexapro for my anxiety. I am ALWAYS anxious when I go to a dr cause I am so tired of being let down by them. I tried to reason with her nurse over the phone. She told me I would have to make an appt and come in and talk to the dr.

It is good to know that your dr would have you cut your pill some. I have a new dr I will be going to. I hope they will understand that I know my body more than they do. I really don't feel hyper like the dr says I am. I do know what hyper is since I have Hashi. Those days I can clean my whole house.

Moving is the pits. Since I came here, they took away my bio-identical creams and cut down my dose of Armour. Okay, now I am just dr ranting!

Pam, Thank you for answering my questions. I really appreciate the time you put towards educating us.

Yeah, no need to dwell on the TSH...but my doc would have wanted me to just shave off a little...and try that to lower TSH. Next test, don't take your meds...at all...and go test. Try and test at the time you WOULD HAVE taken your meds and see what happens. And my doc would have asked for a RT3 test too (to determine where it's goin').

If you want to PM me with your location (or closest major city and State lines) perhaps we can work on coming up with someone suitable to treat you.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by NutinHonie

Sorry for the rhetorical questions asked in frustration. Of course my questions have been answered already in this very informative thread. So I guess I will begin my search for a doctor. I really appreciate the time and energy you give in educating everyone.

I was just wanting to 'shake you out of complacency'...sorry. Yep...you are quite proactive, up on what YOU need, etc....and you just have to begin your search so that you can have a better life and feel like you again. It won't be easy cuz of your location but I'm betting you may be at the point where you can be treated, and not have to see the thyroid doc 'all the time'.

I go to my doc once or twice a year now...and yes, it's expensive, but well worth it. If you want the patient recommended doc's list for your location (or nearest states) PM me.

(Can you all tell that 'something's up' lately? There are a few 'groups' of doctors who are 'anti aging' med docs and they tend to treat subclinical and difficult thyroid and adrenals needs very well. Many of them have studied Dr. Broda Barnes' theories and others as well. Anyway, several major cities have seen these groups crop up. They are also good with BHRT and compounding hormones).

Pam

[MistyJ]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Yeah, no need to dwell on the TSH...but my doc would have wanted me to just shave off a little...and try that to lower TSH. Next test, don't take your meds...at all...and go test. Try and test at the time you WOULD HAVE taken your meds and see what happens. And my doc would have asked for a RT3 test too (to determine where it's goin').

If you want to PM me with your location (or closest major city and State lines) perhaps we can work on coming up with someone suitable to treat you.

Pam

Thank you for that input Pam, I do value it. I will do that with my meds. I will ask for a RT3. I am going to see another dr that the pharmacy recommended.

I live in one of those states where there isn't any thyroid problems. The thyroid group for my state isn't active at all!

I will PM you, if you don't mind, if this next dr doesn't work out. Thank you for your help.

[treenac]

HI there,
I have had hypothyroid symptoms for years - I'm 40. It is very difficult for me to lose weight - on the strictest of regimes - I've just completed 2 weeks of strict induction - no loss. I feel the cold, always have cold hands and feet, have PCOS and hair loss from just above my forehead...
Anyway I went into an endocrinologist 5 years ago and was told there was nothing wrong with me. I decided to go back after more years of frustration - exercise doesn't do much either. My cholesterol is high - always has been. (7.07 mmol/L)

Here's my results:
TT4 6.5 ug/dl
TT3 67 ng/dl
TSH 3.19 uIU/ml
T3(FT3) 2.70 pmol/L
T4(FT4) 17.8 pmol/L
TgAb 37 IU/ml
TpoA 12 IU/ml
GLU 3.84 mmol/L

With these results the docotor said I was fine. I don't feel fine! With the wealth of knowledge and experience you all have would you be able to give me your opinion?
With grateful thanks!

[nonstickpam107]

Can't comment on your results. You didn't put the lab ranges that particular lab used for each test.

(But I can tell that I would feel crappy with that high TSH and too low FT's). You just got the 'wrong doctor' is all.

Pam

[treenac]

Sorry - Let me redo them:

Here's my results:
TT4 6.5 ug/dl (4.5 - 12.5)
TT3 67 ng/dl (81 - 178)
TSH 3.19 uIU/ml (0.40 - 4.00)
T3(FT3) 2.70 pmol/L (2.30 - 7.00)
T4(FT4) 17.8 pmol/L (9.5 - 25.0)
TgAb 37 IU/ml (<34)
TpoA 12 IU/ml (<12)
GLU 3.84 mmol/L (3.90 - 6.10)
Insulin <2 uIU/ml (4.0 - 20.0)

[nonstickpam107]

I'd be finding a thyroid doctor treenac. Where do you live? (State...and what state lines are 'close'..most of us travel up to two hours one way driving to get a good thyroid doc).

Pam

[treenac]

Unforunately I livein China - the endocrinologist I went to was in Hong Kong, she was a professor - mustbe in her late 60's. Getting an appt with her takes months.
I was wondering if anyone knew of a doctor who would be prepared to correspond with me.

[nonstickpam107]

I'm sorry I don't have any listings for doctors in China...you're the third person who's asked though. Also have a couple people in Japan...seems thyroid disease isn't treated the same as in the US (and even here in the US we have problems getting treated, especially with T3).

I know a lady in the UK (she's related to me though) who is using a doctor in the US to correspond with HER doctor in the UK...but it's costing her about 900 dollars a 'phone consultation'.

Pam

[treenac]

Good grief! I wouldn't be able to afford that - she might be better off flying over!
I am able to buy thyroid medication over the counter here but I don't want to do that obviously without an idea of dosage...