Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure?

[rach]

Thanks for the info Pam. I too hope that none of my family ever suffer from thyroid problems, although I am well aware of any problems that may occur, being in the medical profession myself. I also happen to have a good friend who is an endocrinologist so I think I'll be ok! I'm also only too aware of all of the hundreds of things that could potentially go wrong with regard to any illness, but I choose not to dwell on these on a daily basis. I think that's the only way - otherwise we'd all surely go mad!

Take care and I'm sure the info will be of use to others.

[rach]

Oh, and for everyone in the UK - if you're not getting what you want on the NHS then you need to go privately. Its quite simple really. If you want particular things then you have to, unfortunately, be prepared to pay for them.

[nonstickpam107]

Split that Armour up! Half in the am, half in the early afternoon...call the doc and tell him you are doing that, too. If you start getting any hyPER symptoms (racing heart, shaking hands, loose stool MANY times a day, etc.) than cut it back on the second half. That should help. The 'crash' sometimes is too much, too soon, or too much at one time. I'm so very glad you are being treated!! Yay for you!!

Have to agree...not many start on two grains....and it doesnt' have a LOT to do with height/weight...look at MY weight...I'm on 3 1/2 grains maintenance, had to start with 1/2 grain for the first three months. It's up to you....but...if it were ME, I'd be taking 1/2 grain in am, 1/2 in the afternoon, and just wait on the second grain for about three weeks. (Yeah..I'm 5' 1" and was 215 lbs. when dx'd...given 1/2 grain to start). It's not at all like an antibitotic or other meds that are determined by weight...this is a hormone and you need to introduce it slowly.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Selenium shouldn't be taken in higher amounts...check your multi...only the brand that comes in capsule and powdered has a high amount of selenium...that's why I switched to a brand that has it already in it (plus I really get what I pay for).

Pam

[deb81]

Ok Pam this ones for you....Ive been reading this site for months. To make a long story short....I have been suffering with hypothyroid for the past 22 years. It took 6 years for someone to diag. me. My blood tests all came back "within the normal range" and because I was only 25-31, nothing was done. Finally a doctor treated ME and my symptoms (did not just look at the blood work)and put me on Armour, 1/2 - 1 gr. Within 9 months exactly, my symptoms disappeared and I did great for 5 years. My primary symptom was my hair falling out - the rest....leg cramps, extreme fatigue, depression (and at that time infertility) etc....I could live with, but not the hair falling out - that was the worst.

Anyway......after 5 years (age 36) my hair started again. I tried to find a doctor near me (my other doctor was 2 hrs away) but everyone said I was fine. Went back to original doctor- she upped me to 2 gr and I did great for another 5 years.

Yup you guessed it - 5 years later it started again so back I went and then was put on 3gr. did great until last year.
Yes I went another 5 years. I am now 47. Last year my hair started again. I had my TSH done and F4.

TSH was 0 and not sure what exact F4 was, but it was something like 4.74 with a normal ratio of 4.50-10.0 (these are not exact, but close). I was told to cut dose in half and retest in 6 weeks. Well I went down to 3gr instead of 2 because I thought that would be too low and did not retest for 4 months - life got in the way. Went back in April and had TSH redone and it was 0.11. I felt ok, hair was not tooo bad, but not great either. I just retested on Wednesday, and my TSH was 0.2. I did request copies of all lab work. I did request FT3 and FT4,
ferritin levels as well as hormone workup. She (nurse practitioner) did say that my FT4 was off as well, but I don't know the results or the "normal ranges". My major confusion is that I went from taking 4 grains and doing great, ended up with a 0 TSH, reduced to 3 gr and am now at 0.02 so now I have to decrease to 90 mgs.. Have you ever heard of this???? I do feel a little hyper - kinda like nervous. I am also tired all the time and my hair....OMG its
falling out like crazy. I also asked for ANA antibodies and testing for Hashimoto's (which I think all came back normal). Any ideas would be appreciated.

[nonstickpam107]

Um...where's the FT3?? "Most" normal thyroid disease patients do well with a suppressed TSH (TSH really isn't an 'issue' if you are on Armour...the first thing that HAPPENS is the TSH drops...doctor's who are well versed in Rx'ing Armour KNOW THAT), and FT4 is usually just at or slightly under midway of range, and FT3 is anywhere from midway of lab range to highest in range (without going over). Why do you want a test of TSH (for pituitary) if you are already medicated????? Also, those of us who are peri and post meno will require more hormone to function.

Not testing the FT3 when GIVING a T3 drug (Armour) is like not testing blood sugar and giving insulin. Those with hypothyroidism will need to monitor BOTH FT4 and FT3.

Pam

[deb81]

I did ask for both FT3 and FT4 to be tested. I won't get a copy until monday and see where I am at. If they did not test the FT3 and FT4 and just did T3 and T4, I will be back at that lab monday afternoon. She was concerned the the TSH was soooo low - which means that I will probably being taking that 2 hr drive again!

I do feel very "nervous" today. so I just don't have a clue.

Thanks again

[nonstickpam107]

I hope they are redoing the TPO antibodies too...they are finding now that if they take that test early in the disease, it may prove negative...and then when they test it 'later' it can prove positive antibodies. Here's a website that may help...it's written BY doctors FOR doctors: www.thyroidmanager.org

Pam

[yolonda]

Hi Pam, I have recently gotten a new Dr. & he is listening to complaints about symtoms of a thyroid problems. Thank goodness someone is willing to hear me out ! Anyway I am seeing him tomorrow & he has agreed to do some testing. Now after reading alot of your info here, I want to go over what order of testing should be done ?
1. Ferritin ( Mimics hypothyroidism ) if below 80 have the Antibodies test done
2. Antibodies test
3. Tsh,free T3,freeT4
4.Hormone panel ( Estradial,Progesterone,Testosterone )
Is this the right order in which I shall ask for ? Or shall I just have it all done at once ?
Thank you so much for any help !

[nonstickpam107]

Ferritin has nothing to do with antibodies. If under 60, then supplement with Iron.

TSH, FT4, FT3 (free T4, Free T3). and the antibodies won't be done unless your TSH is above a 3 (new range is .35-3.0, your lab may not use it), and your FT's are under midway of ranges. Oh, and NO, not the T3 Uptake test...it is NOT a T3 test, it's actually a T4 binding test, and if the doc THINKS it's a measure of the T3 hormone...um...you have a problem.

If you are peri/post meno, and this doc DOES bio identicals, than blood testing of: estradiol, estriol, estrone, progesterone, and FREE testosterone. If this doc does NOT do bio identical hormone replacement..um...than he won't do those anyway. Do NOT let the doc put you on synthetic hormones, btw (many are still doing that...regardless of new compounded bio identicals available...they just don't want to 'learn').

Good luck (and get a COPY of the lab results when they come in...not just 'over the phone').

Pam

[yolonda]

Thanks Pam ! But I am not familiar w/ " Synthetic hormones ? I have been on the "Estraderm patch" ,8mg of Estradiol for many years. Maybe this is not a good thing ?

[nonstickpam107]

No, that's a GOOD thing, lol. That patch, as well as the Vivelle Dot are both from natural/bio identical estradiol (one of the three estrogens that we humans make). That's fine. But....even if you don't HAVE a uterus...you may need progesterone too (to balance the estradiol...some docs only think you need it to slough lining if you have a uterus!) cuz progesterone is what keeps the thyroid functioning well...once it drops very low, it can trigger hypothyroidism. Good for YOU for being on a bio identical HRT (and yay for the doctor too!!).

Pam

[yolonda]

Great news ! Also I am convinced I have a thyroid problem & w/ my new Dr. I have great hopes that we can find out for sure. He seems to be intrested in whats going on w/ me.( Thats more than I can say about my former Dr.) Especially since I have close family that has thyroid problems also. Thanks so much for your help !

[nonstickpam107]

OOH...I can hardly WAIT to see your labs copy! OR to hear about whether you have thyroid disease (and treatment finally!!). Do let me know!! Best of luck to you!

Pam

[pennyless]

Pam, I have been hypothroid for 17 years now. Finally found a doctor that would put me on the Armour and I love it. I always felt like crap on the synthroid but could not find a doctor to listen. I have been reading this thead with a lot of interest. Currently i take 60 mg twice a day. In reading one of your answers, would it be Ok to take this just once a day, taking both doses at the same time? I was told that the armour had to be taken this way because of not being "time released" for a lack of a better term. IN other words if it took it all at once by the end of the day i would be dragging. Thanks for the great information you and others provide on this thread.

[nonstickpam107]

Well, it's up to you. You certainly run the risk of 'running on empty' if you take that teeny weeny dosage all at once (I'd be begging for a 'real dose'). What's your FT4 and FT3 on that little dosage? (Not the TSH...TSH is unnecessary once medicated with Armour..you MUST have FT3 and FT4 though to titrate).

Pam

[Galoutofdixie]

I think it's time for a little 'Bump'.

Chris

[clb1265]

My TSH has gradually risen over the past year. 1.84 in January, 2.60 in June and in late November 3.9. My doc has me on low dose of Levothyroxine. I don't feel any better (ie. depression and fatigue) but I think I am having less hair fall out.

I am starting Atkins induction on Monday to see if I can still lose weight. I also just joined the YMCA a week ago and meet my coach on Monday.

Two years ago I lost 32 pounds in three months doing Atkins, that was before I was hypo. I'll be happy right now if I can lose even half that.

My T3 and T4 have not been tested. Too expensive and now starting a new year I'd have to pay for them out of my pocket.

I was wondering if anyone knows what other things might raise TSH levels, and make it look like one is hypo and get a false diagnosis?

I'd also like to hear from others who are hypo and have had success with Atkins. I'm assuming going the low-carb route is fine to do with hypo.

[nonstickpam107]

Most of us stop converting our T4 into any T3..THAT'S what causes it. As most of us have Hashimoto's autoimmune hypothyroid...the antibodies kill off the thyroid's function entirely.

There is NOTHING that will help your levels besides thyroid hormone replacement itself. Um, if you want a 'firm diagnosis' get a TPO antibodies test. If you go beneath 30net grams of carb and under 1100 calories, you will further shut your thyroid conversion down. So, the exercise idea is wonderful (exercise has been shown to further aid hypothyroid patients to lose weight), and so is keeping your carbs lower (try to aim for 35net per day right now...with no sugar, etc.) and your protein higher.

I lost my first 50 pounds on lowcarb BEFORE I was treated for hypothyroidism. Nowadays, lifting weights when I can and eating really well (placing my carbs around my workouts) does the trick. I still keep my carbs relatively low to maintain.

You really need to eventually find a doc who does the correct tests. TSH is a test of your pituitary, not the thyroid...and is the FIRST thing to go down when one is given teensy bit of T4....if you don't start getting the hormones replaced, you may not get much more energy.

Pam

[clb1265]

Pam let me ask you since you are so profound on this topic. Do you know any reason why TSH would give an elevated reading (3.9) if one was not hypo?

I started a new med for colitis within the timeframe that my level increased. I also added a new multi-vitamin with numerous things in it to lower cholesteral (Selenium, copper, magnanese, chromium, molybdenum, potassium, boron and policosanol).

I was just wondering since the timeframe of my increase TSH and the timing of taking the new med and vitamin, are possibly tied together and perhaps hypo is perhaps a false diagnosis. (hey, I'm being wishful).

[nonstickpam107]

Colitis is a symptom of un or undertreated hypo. Would you take the word of a doctor who did a cholesterol test, that you had cancer????? I don't think so. So..why don't you get the REST of the tests and make sure your hypo isn't Hashimoto's disease (which makes one HAVE colitis, and several other things).

You take thyroid med on an EMPTY stomach, one hour before eating, and keep ALL vitamins, calcium, and iron at LEAST four hours away.

Everyone who is hypo has their TSH keep going up, then they get more hormone, then it goes up again, until the hormones are FULLY replaced.

The person you should be asking this question is your DOCTOR and you should be proactive in getting a T4/T3 to find that out.

Pam

[clb1265]

Pam, I'll certainly have to ask my doctor about what you said about colitis (I have crohns colitis upper and lower bowel). The thing is, I've had this disease for as much as 10 years, my thyroid has been fine until the last year. I find it hard to believe there is a connection. I see a GI specialist for the colitis, he knows about my newly diagnosed hypo and he didn't say anything about a connection.

[clb1265]

Hey, I just saw an advertisement for the following product, what do you think of it?

http://www.netrition.com/absolute_thyrox_page.html

[nonstickpam107]

That product has NO discernable levels of real T3 in it. The law does NOT allow any product that needs a prescription to be in these 'supplements'. They can 'call it' anything they want, but the level of bovine hormone in those products aren't allowed by FDA rules to contain active hormone.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Here, you can find about colitis, how autoimmune hypothyroidism is triggered (usually by either a birth, or other 'hormone event' or peri meno, or even a virus). www.thyroidmanager.org This is written BY doctors FOR doctors.

Pam

[Maycee]

Help I guess I'm still a little confused. I've learned alot since "lurking" here (sorry I do have to "out" myself more often here!) You guyz have all taught me ALOT about the thyroid, menopause and getting your hormones back in balance and I feel like I will owe you guys always for helping giving me my life back, since menopause has stripped me of my hormones and now my thyroid, etc etc ad nauseum. I really do feel much better then I USED TO but...

tho I think I have been fairly religious lately about sticking to my diet, taking all my multi's (Twinlabs, iron pills, Tri-Est (bio-id compounded cream once daily 20 days a mo, and then the prometrium cream 10 days a mo) I sitll find myself having these "episodes" where my body seems to "spaz out" and I get very hyper for a couple days, can't sleep at all, then I start with the pains in the neck in the thyroid area (feels like a jabbing pain verry uncomfortable) and then I get VERY TIRED, achey, have trouble breathing, eating, sleeping etc etc. This is now something I get to look "forward to" each and every month, and now I've even got the palps back to boot, which are loads of fun.

I have "supposedly" already been diagnosed with primary hypothyroidism by my GP based on symptoms alone (my blood tests seem all to be pretty darn "normal") and I have also even done all the tests confirming I have a "cold nodule" and a (periodically) swollen and inflamed/tendor gland to the touch. What does this mean however in the absence of any antibodies or FT3's and FT4s nosedives?? I feel like such a hypochondriac! going back to my doc again and again to bug and plead for them to do more blood tests only to find there's "nothing wrong". Supposedly my Ferritin is still low, at about 15 (range 10 -291) and so I KNOW I have to bring that up. Will my iron being so low, affect the rest of my "scores"? and "mask" the rest of my numbers? I can't seem to find anything about this in either Dr Vliet's book or anywhere other then here.....

Please wish me luck... I have appts with 5 different doctors coming up this week, but with labs in hand (done beforehand) which to me seem inconclusive, I'm already feeling discouraged. I didn't get everthing I asked for (do we ever??) but after making a scene, was able to get:

ferritin: 15 (10-291)
Thyroid TSH: 1.33
Progesterone: 0.08 (was by phone so I don't yet know the range)
Testostarone Total: 42 (20-76)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies: <10 (Ref Range <35 IU/ML)
T-4 FREE 1.2 ( 0.8 - 1.8 NG/DL )
FSH 70 (23-116).... asked for estriadial, got this good grief
and am still fighting to get them to give me my T-3 FREE....

Pam does anything pop out to you besides the lo ferritin? my doc has given me either the Armour and/or the Synthroid to start up on, but without actual blood tests to back myself up I'm afraid to take them for fear I'll make myself worse. Sigh... like I said, I'm confused

[nonstickpam107]

Ya need a FT3.

Hmmm...the bouts of 'thyroiditis' you are getting is from the cold nodule (acting on it's own, spitting out thyroid hormone whenever IT wants to). Let's keep in mind, May...that many go YEARS without being offered any thyroid hormone...and you might want to take the doc up on the offer of the Armour Thyroid and start.

Double edged sword...if you start on the Armour, you don't take your iron or calcium with it (four hours away from it).

You cannot continue taking triest without a estradiol, estriol and estrone levels (that's what's in it) and your progesterone doesn't look anywhere NEAR high enough (you must balance that progesterone to the Triest). Heart palps and 'antsy/bugsy' is usually from not enough progesterone balanced to the triest. Just an idea/suggestion. Oh, and is that prometrium cream 100mg or higher??

Pam

[Maycee]

Mm, well no, the Tri-Est is prescription, but the prometrium is not. it says it is 23/mg per pump. and I take it only 10 days out of the month so as to not "do' the continous combined that they say is bad. I guess I need to ask my NP for some prescript progesterone huh. And some new labs while I'm at it. See now I'm feeling more empowered thanks! but what about the thyroid meds themselves.. I should bring my iron up just a bit more first, right? cuz otherwise I could end up swinging hypER? and I definitely do NOT want that. One of the docs I am seeing this week is a cardio (my GP says I have to on account of an "abnormal ekg" last month ARGH). Would it be prudent to ask him about some block and replace, or wait til seeing the Endo about this...

[nonstickpam107]

Well, your FT4 is high enough. Some only need T3...and then others only need balance.

Oh, the OTC 'prometrium' creams ARE NOT prometrium...they are wild yam and can contain as little as .01%...not a good thing to put WITH your RX tri est. Yes, get a compound.

Um..I don't know 'who' is telling you it's 'bad' to have progesterone cream with your estrogen EVERY day...but I've been doing it for over five years and am just dandy. Depends on the doc.

Pam

[Maycee]

Well, the continous combined idea comes from Dr Schwarzbein... but, the balance thing makes total sense to me!! I'm all about teaching my kids moderation & balance in all things, and then I don't follow it myself... duh!

Thanks again!! it's back to the lab for me....

Maycee