Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure?

[Cruzcrzy]

Marki - I am in Edmond, and see a doc in Oklahoma City. Based on your labs he would be treating you, I promise. When I finally go to him(4th doc in 4 years)my TSH was at 1.85 and was barely functional. He will test FreeT3 and Freet4 as well as any other tests you want run. He did ferritin and female hormonals on me. If you are interested in his information, I would be happy to pass it on. He is very cooperative in doing testing you request...we've even done adrenal testing and glucose testing, per my request.

Just last week I took my almost 18 year old in for testing, and I will be getting the results on Monday. We also have a follow up appt.

Marie

[Cruzcrzy]

Marki - I will be gone for a week or so, so I will PM you the info, in case you do want it.

Marie

[Cruzcrzy]

Marki - It says you are not receiving PM's. I am sorry. The endo's name is Modhi Gude. I hope it is okay to post his name. Best Wishes.

Marie

[Lilgrnize]

Marie, how did it go with your daughter? We get my dd's results tomorrow.

Pam, my sis called today...after months of me ragging on her, she finally was tested, and she's Hashi's/hypo...surprise! They're just starting her on synthroid, but she gave me her labs w/ranges (wow, she was really listening to me!) and her ft3 was well over halfway, just low ft4.

[buniphuphu]

Marie-

Thanks for the info. I can't send a PM either. Not sure why? I'll give Dr. Gude a call to see if I can get in.

-marki

[nonstickpam107]

Niki, as she progresses with the antibody action on the thyroid, her conversion will go down (most as soon as they get some T4, stop converting and the FT3 falls into the toilet). She should be aware of this.

Pam

[Lilgrnize]

Pam, she goes for more bloodwork in a few weeks, and I told her to continue to insist on ft3, that this is probably temporary!

[nonstickpam107]

Cool beans! Yeah...I've seen this 'phenomenon' occur in almost all of us that have Hashi's. If she has trouble 'affording' the FT3 (this is for anyone who has insurance that won't pay for it, or can't afford it) than she should have this test when she gets up to 75mcg. and then when she doesn't 'feel up to par' and they are upping the med.

I have it done now every time, but I'm now (finally!! ) at the point of only seeing my thyroidologist every six months.

Pam

[Lilgrnize]

She's military, and had problems at first, but got them to refer her to an endo, and this endo is testing ft3, so here's hoping! They will be moving back here in less than 2 yrs, so if she's having problems at that point, I'll just drag her to my doc!

[nonstickpam107]

You're not 'sure what to think'? Most thyroidologists would treat for hypothyroidism (as well as low ferritin). MOST 'normal' non thyroid-diseased individuals have a FT4 of about midway of range and the same with FT3.

At that TSH and very low hormones, my: hair would be falling out, I'd be gaining weight (or not able to lose well), be very fatigued and wouldn't be able to exercise well, would have joints aching, and muscle fatigue, sore bottoms of feet, irritable, not able to sleep well.....and so on. How do YOU feel?

http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/...2Foklahoma.htm


Pam

[Abbott]

What is going on?? Here is a summary of the events.

3-5-03
Symptoms: Very tired, slept all the time, Cold, some days of depresion.
TSH 4.24 (.04-5.0)
FT4 .9 (.8-1.8)
Started Levoxyl plus Cytonel
11-10-03
TSH 1.13 (.4-5.0)
FT4 1.1 (.8-1.8)
T3 75 (45-137)
Estradiol 27 (<18)
Increased Levoxyl to .1mg with Cytomel 5mcg X 2 day

6-16-04
TSH 1.134 (.4-5.0)
FT4 1.2 (.8-1.8)
FT3 2.4 (2.3-4.2)
Estradiol 21 (<18)
Ferritin 105 (10-291)
Anti Thyroglabulin 0 Post Menopausal
Anti Thyroid Peroxidase 0 Post Menopausal
Feel fine but still a little tired

10-6-04
New Doctor
Stayed on .1mg of Levoxyl
Stopped Cytomel
Added T3 compounded (C-Triiodo-l-Thyron Sr) Sow realease 60mcg X 2 day
Not quite as tired as previously.

6-1-05
TSH .42 (.35-5.5)
FT4 .77 (.59-1.97)
FT3 2.8 (2.3-4.2)
No change in how I am feeling.

July 2005
Started Metformin - Reaction - Very sick for a month
ALL thyroid symptoms returned ( cold, tired, sleeping extra hours, depression)
Still taking .1mg Levoxyl and 60mcg X 2 day of compounded T

7-23-05
Stopped Levoxyl and componded T3 (C-Triiodo-l-Thyron-Sr)
Started 1 gram of Natural Tyhroid
During the next month felt good again, still some tiredness.

9-8-05
TSH 4.12 (.35-5.50)
FT4 .85 (.61-7.76)
T3 133 (.85-205) No FT3 done as requested

Obviously, I am still tired because the T3 is still low. However,.......
What do the test results say??
Why did the TSH go up or do we only look at T4 and T3?
Is there something different that should be tested?
What would happen if you only took T3 medication?

I would really appreciate any help you can give me.

Linda

[nonstickpam107]

You look undermedicated...are you telling me you are NOW on ONLY one grain (60mg.) of Armour???? See my stats??? I'm on 3.5 grains of Armour Thyroid, doing very well.

Pam

[buniphuphu]

My AB tests look ok though, right?

As for how I feel, I'm 34 years old. I'm so tired I take a nap most afternoons. I can't read a book because I can't concentrate for any length of time (a great trait for someone working on their phd). My muscles ache. I have to apply a cold compress to my eyes each morning, so that I can even open them. I choked last night while swallowing, not swallowing anyTHING, just normal swallowing reflex. I can't stand having anything touch my neck. The bottoms of my feet hurt (didn't realize this was a symptom). I have no sex drive. I'm cold. I'm hot. I have CTS and tendonitis. My asthma is worse. My skin is dry and itchy. My hair is dry and brittle. I have a SHORT fuse and fly off the handle over nothing at all. I just reached 300 pounds. That's how I feel.

[nonstickpam107]

You feel, um...what you ARE...hypothyroid. No, I can't comment on your antibody tests...they are WRONG...do you have a copy of those right in front of you??? The actual copy of the lab ranges? There's no such THING as 'post meno' as a range for antithyroid peroxidase testing.

Let me see if I can explain the thyroid testing....it goes like this: you are taking just enough Armour to start to shut down any hormone coming from your own thyroid...BUT...you aren't taking enough to 'replace' your body with hormone, thus the TSH went UP...it's asking for more incoming hormone. The TSH is only the action of your pituitary upon the thyroid....so the FT's are the actual measure of the hormones in your body. Your FT4 is ALWAYS going to be lower than your FT3 when you are taking Armour Thyroid...everyone's is. You have a long way to go to feel/get better. I went from .25mcg. of T4 only my first year of being treated, then it took the better part of the next TWO years to go from .75mcg. T4 up to 3 grains of Armour Thyroid, now I've increased up to 3 1/2 grains over the past six months (because I started a weight lifting/cardio program..yes, I feel that well now....lol).

Give it some time, but you REALLY need to keep being checked and your hormone raised until your TSH is suppressed and your FT3 is higher in range. Your antibodies test should look like this: TPO (the second one) 3500 (this is mine...very high) lab range: <35 there is no 'post meno' range reading for those tests, that's WHY I'm asking if that's the original copy of the lab results.

Pam

[buniphuphu]

The lab report on my antibody tests says exactly what I wrote:

Anti-Thyroglobulin AB: <20
Reference: <40 IU/ML

Antithyroid peroxidase: <10
Reference: <35 IU/ML

Are they not normally reported that way?

[nonstickpam107]

Yes, I wasn't commenting on yours Marki. BUT...don't think it won't show up later (Hashimoto's). I had four TPO tests taken over the course of 15 years. The last one showed me above the range (my endo's testing lab ONLY does thyroid/endocrine testing and gives actual ranges like mine is: 20-4000). So, my thyroid antibodies were fighting with other antibodies (I have HIE, Sjogrens', Celiac, etc....five autoimmune diseases) with me. I wasn't dx'd for ANY of my autoimmune diseases until my thyroid was almost completely eaten away by the antibodies. This happens a LOT of times, and some women don't show antibodies action until menopause. (Also why a lot of women never get any treatment for thyroid disease until menopause).

Pam

[Lilgrnize]

Pam, finally got all my daughter's bloodwork back...had to go 2 rounds because the first round they didn't do ft3, did t3 uptake...of course the doc acted perplexed at that. Isn't it funny how that darn t3 uptake just appears on its own? Hehe!

So anyway here's what we got:
ft4 is at 50% of range
ft3 is at 22% of range
Her TPO is <10 (range <35)

I know we still need to watch that TPO in the future. Of course they won't treat her, she's in "normal range", so we'll be taking a trip back to Dallas much sooner than I had planned. She's been very sick the last few weeks. Has most the classic symptoms, her temp runs 97.1 consistently, throughout the day, she even dropped a couple of classes this semester because they're Lit classes, and she says she can read the material over and over and can't seem to retain anything. She called me in tears one day driving, said she felt "foggy" and was afraid she was going to fall asleep.

One interesting thing I want to throw out there...she's had mild symptoms here and there over the years...nothing consistent. About 3 months, she went on birth control for the first time in her life, and her symptoms have become progressively worse and more consistent since. I had already thought about the BC causing her symptoms to escalate, but wasn't sure how to address it with her. Last night she came to me and told me she hasn't felt right since she went on BC, and thinks it might be making things worse, and would I mind if she stopped taking it (isn't she funny? she's 20 yrs old and asking my permission!).

Oh, and she's gained 25 lbs in the past 3 months...she eats well, has been very careful with her diet, while working full-time, taking college classes and playing on a softball team...this is not a kid who sits on her butt eating junk food 24/7, which is what it would normally take to pack on that much weight in that short a time!

[SMP]

Hi Pam, I also got my results from a couple tests done by my N.D. Although she hasn't gone over them with me yet, it seems from the copy that she ran off for me that I am fine. Except that I have the stalled weight loss, brain fog, hot and cold depending on the ambient temps, "sleeping" (or what passes for sleeping) 10-11 hours a night plus occasional afternoon liedowns, the burning feet (oh yes!) and aches and pains so bad that I am never free of pain. Anyway, here are the ones I just got:

Free T4 12.8 (9.0 - 23.0) pmol/L

Free T3 Index
Total T3 2.2 (0.8 - 2.8) nmol/L
T3 uptake 0.29 (0.22-0.37)
Free T3 index 2.1 (0.9-2.8)
TSH 1.10 (0.20-4.0) mU/L

Anti TPO (Microsomal Ab) <33 [<50] Ku/L

Sure hope I copied this right; my eyes hurt too much to concentrate on small print for long. As for other items, I am long past menopause and had a hysterectomy when I was 47, 8 years after the youngest of my 6 kids was born. I hit 300 lbs 5 years ago, then lost 70 # by going on Atkins. Since then, I've bounced around within 10 lbs either way of 235. Been there for over 3 years and my legs, heart and lungs are giving out. Would like to be more active, but find activity hard due to fibro symptoms. Any light you can shed, Pam, would be better than being told to live with it. Thanks.

[nonstickpam107]

Sandra, can you get a ferritin test done?? it doesn't cost all that much....and an iron test too. The symptoms you have are also that of low ferritin (that's storage iron..your iron can look halfway decent, but if your storage iron is low, and that's anything UNDER 60, no matter the goofy huge range, you will have fatigue, aches, pains, fibro like symptoms). It doesn't matter how LONG you have been post meno....if your estradiol and progesterone and free testosterone are very low, it will also mimic hypothyroidism.

I think your tests look average for a post meno woman your age. Your FT3 looks good, your FT4 isn't bad either. I think you should look at iron, ferritin, and B12 to see if that is lacking. Your ND should know that would compromise your energy.

Niki, birth control pills are counted as HRT and bind a good percentage of the thyroid hormones...maybe your DD is having that happen??

Pam

[Lilgrnize]

Pam, good suggestion on checking the b12...my ferritin was great, but I wasn't responding well to thyroid hormone...my ft's were coming up, but I just wasn't feeling better. This new doc checked my b12, and it was very low, so he's got me on weekly b12 injections...I'm hoping that will help.

He also suspects celiac, after I explained, in detail, my stomach issues over the years, and all the tests they did do that turned up nothing. I opted to skip the test, as it's very expensive and I'm still working on meeting my deductable right now, and am just trying gluten free to see if that helps. I am seeing lots of improvement in my digestive issues, and it really wasn't that hard for me, since I've already be LC'ing for almost 2 years .

[SMP]

Guess I'll have to get my latest blood tests results from the doc. Pretty sure I had a ferritin done. One reason for my hysterectomy was extremely low ferritin and iron levels, and severe frequent menses . Former doc said I was just barely keeping my head above water, and had NO reserves whatsoever. Of course, he was so focused on my iron levels that he completely overlooked my mononucleosis symptoms! As for B12, I stopped going monthly to doc's and have been giving myself monthly B12 shots. (Whoops, behind this month! Thanks for the reminder!) The only other thing I can see is severe allergy symptoms - hayfever for nose and eyes, molds for muscle aches. Maybe it's just old age and genetics. But, if indeed, my thyroid levels look OK to you, too, then I'll switch my focus to something else. Sooner or later, by the process of elimination, I'll land at an answer. Thanks so much, Pam.

[nonstickpam107]

Sandra, low iron and ferritin and B12 can mimic hypothyroidism so WELL, that it can even 'skew' the testing involved. Please see if the doc will Rx. you (after ferritin tests are read) some sublingual iron/B12...it works very well. Another type to use is Polyiron another yet is Floridix. It takes MONTHS to bring iron/ferritin up, then more MONTHS to stabilize. If you aren't taking iron (in addition to B12), or the B12 injections aren't the right dosage, you could feel badly for a year or more before turning it around. Hope this helps Sandra.

Niki, If you think you have Celiac please...skip that expensive blood test! On about 46% of we females it shows nothing (it showed I didn't have it!!! ). I had the small intestine biopsy and it was very conclusive for Celiac. Yes, the best thing is just to avoid gluten and see how you feel. You have to eat quite a bit of gluten for the test to WORK you know (I was so sick by the third day I was overnight in hospital and it STILL was inconclusive as I was LC'ing before this for some relief).

Pam

[Lilgrnize]

Pam, I actually kinda figured that since I'd been LC'ing for so long...the only gluten I was getting was from the occasional LC tortilla, some condiments, and some prepared or canned meats. I had increased my carbs a bit and was using lower fat stuff, which had modified food starch, and started having problems again.

I decided in this case, a diagnosis really isn't that critical, as adhering to gluten free is the only cure anyway. I'm in the learning process now...learning to read labels all over again! It's tedious, but I am seeing an improvement in how I feel, so worth it. I'm sure you've been doing this so long, you never accidentally eat something with gluten, but what are the symptoms you experience if you do? I'm curious to know what to look for, too. At this point, between the thyroid problems and the stomach problems, I really don't know what's causing which symptom anymore!

[nonstickpam107]

MY symptoms if I get 'glutoned'??? OMG...my DH accidently glutoned me about six months ago (he used a knife to butter a piece of wheat bread and then passed it to me at 'my' counter...we keep separate food area). Bloody diarhhea, intense pain (like gas x50), breaking out in hives, having to use an Epipen because of breathing difficulties, and mouth, throat swelling. Yep, I know RIGHT away if I'm contaminated.

What do I eat?? All whole foods. After lifting, I have eggwhites, oatmeal and protein powder (whey only). My other five meals I have things like goat cottage cheese and an apple, sweet potato with chicken, lots and lots of steamed veggies and fish. I eat my 'starchier' carbs after I work out and then for my second meal also (like swt. potato, brown rice, oats (rolled or steel cut only). I've lost a total of 13.5% body fat (and am getting some nice sculpted muscles) over the last six months eating like this and working out.

Pam

[Lilgrnize]

I've found conflicting stuff on oats, and was afraid to try them...so they don't bother you?

My main symptoms were severe diarrhea (my food was recognizable) and the pain and severe gas. I was breaking out on my chest real bad...looked more like hives than acne, although it didn't itch...and that has disappeared.

I'm still having trouble working out...was working out before my thyroid took a nosedive, but since then, I've had a hard time starting back. I get very dizzy and weak, once even vomited, and it seems to take all my energy reserves...I can hardly drive to work and sit at my desk for days, much less really DO anything when I get there. I'm getting pretty frustrated, because I was toning up well, and now I'm turning into jello and feel gross (I guess I should be thankful I haven't put all my weight back on). Plus, working out was a great stress release.

[nonstickpam107]

I didn't get much herpetiformis (that's the skin eruptions, and some have them for WEEKS after eating a little gluton). You know, there are people who are wheat allergic, but that doesn't mean they have the genetic disease Celiac. My DSon is allergic to wheat and breaks out a bit, has a little GI disturbance but is classified as wheat intolerant, not Celiac. Big difference.

I had gotten some steel cut oats that had been milled on equipment that had wheat milled before it...and I had a heck of a time. Some with Celiac cannot have oats, I'm one of the lucky ones. I buy steel cut oats when I can afford them, and ONLY eat them after I lift (for 45 minutes)...if I buy rolled oats, the off store brands MAY contain wheat. There are cousins of mine (13) who are also all Celiac and they can all eat oats too. This doesn't mean the instant kind. I put a protein WITH my oats and my sweet tators to slow it down too.

I missed a few days from having pneumonia and surgery six months ago, but I rarely miss a workout now. It's really paying off for me. I'd rather work out than eat, sleep, breath....lol.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Bumping for new BFL'er, Baxter.

Pam

[baxter]

Thanks Pam.

This thread is AWESOME!

Lori

[Besos]

I just got back my results, I know by reading though most of this thread that there a more tests that I should ask for but can anyone tell me anything about these. TSH range 0.4-5.0 mU/L 2.75
FSH, SERUM IU/L 23.5

My dr says I am normal and thats all I get out of her.

My symtoms are fatigue, lost of sex drive, irregular periods, I am a big old crab, depression, weight gain, hot flashes, dry skin and sore joints.

Thanks

[nonstickpam107]

As you know, if you have read this, FSH isn't a substitute for actually checking the measurement of the actual hormones (you need: estradiol, estriol, estrone, free testosterone, progesterone), just like TSH doesn't tell you anything about the actual hormones of the thyroid (you need a FT4, FT3, possibly anti TPO antibodies testing).

Here's a page with lists of "Top Thyroid docs": http://thyroid.about.com/cs/doctors/a/topdocs.htm

Pam