Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure?

[nonstickpam107]

kukudachew,

If you are "normal" and that means you FEEL normal, not that a test says you are, than you wouldn't be wondering if you could feel better, huh? If you do NOT need medicated for your thyroid, than you will be the very first person I have ever encountered who is like that!!

You need a TSH, FT4, FT3, ok?? Also, take a look at the rest of this thread when you get a chance, and also at a new thread over on the health boards about thyroid disease.

If your doc hasn't checked you in 15 years...well, you need all the thyroid tests...TSH, FT4, FT3, ok?? The TSH should be around a 1.5 or under (yep...almost ALL the "normal" people tested, test around a .56 or so, ok?? None of them over a 2). That test is not a good one...but, if your FT4, and FT3 (NOT a T3 Uptake....that does NOT measure the amount of T3 hormone, and any doc who thinks it does, needs to look up what that test actually does) are midway of their lab ranges (or higher) than you are fine.

Doc's are learning, they are coming around, if you need a list of Top Thyroid docs for your state (patient recommended), PM me with your location (not address, lol, just State, and if you are less than two hours away from another state line).

Pam

[Rustyjack]

Pam,

Ok, I'll stop the Armour. How long does it take to get the T3 out of my system. In other words how long should I wait before the next blood test. Its been 9 weeks since I started the T-100 and quit the Amour the first time. Hope its not too long, as I was really feel bad. I also have Chronic Fatigue , Fibromyalgia, and candida along the thyroid. My doc is a holistic D.O. and likes to do supplements and diet best but will give scripts as a last resort.

Jackie

[nonstickpam107]

But...supplements have NO thyroid hormone IN them. If you need thyroid hormones, then you NEED thyroid hormones. The thyroid is in charge of all the female hormones, and metabolism, etc.......it will take about six weeks for the T4 that is in the Armour to leave, and only about two weeks for the T3 to completely not show up in testing.

I had three miscarriages because of thyroid not treated properly, I could not conceive after I had my second child, I went post-meno at the age of 41....all because of my thyroid was not properly treated. You do what you want......if you are feeling really great, and understand the consequences of taking supplements with NO usable hormones, versus having a doc/practitioner who knows all about thyroid...well, what can I say? There aren't very many docs who are really good at thyroid, but there are a LOT of practitioners who don't much about it, beyond just what they read in a textbook (that hasn't been updated in a long time).

I hope you feel better, soon. For me...in the words of the great Endophobia: "They will have to pry the Armour out of my cold, dead hands!"

Pam

[Jessicarb]

Pam,

I need your help. Having kept up with this thread for some time (and having a consistently low body temp and always being exhausted) I took a thyroid test. The results are as follows:

TSH (3rd generation) .855 range 0.35-5.50

free thyroxine FT4 .9 range 0.8-1.8

triiodothyronine free 1.9 range 2.3-4.2

Can you help me interpret them, please? I'd be most appreciative.

[nonstickpam107]

Ok, jessi,

You just need to know that your numbers look almost exactly like MINE when I was finally dx'd with subclinical (meaning one of the tests, or more, fell in normal ranges) Hashimoto's hypothyroidism.

A NORMAL person's FT4 and FT3 are about midway or HIGHER in the lab range. As you can see, your FT4 is just barely in the range at all, and your FT3 is not even in the range.

If you went to a good thyroid doc who is knowledgeable, I think he/she would run an antibodies test to see if you have autoimmune hypothyroid, and then treat you.....whether or NOT you had the autoimmune variety, and if you go to just any doc.....he/she is likely to JUST look at the TSH and say "Oh, it's normal, buh bye". What does your doc think about the thyroid hormones not even being there (the FT3) or just barely inside the range??

If you need a list of top thyroid docs (patient recommended) let me know...just PM me and let me know where you live (state, and any states less than two hours away).

Pam

[Lynda99]

Pam. You Rock!

Oh, and as an aside, if any you have breast implants (especially all-silicone) and think you have an autoimmune problem, find out! My friend spent 15 years sick and began to recover within weeks of removal.

[macmca]

I saw this ? asked in the thread , but didn't see a response to it,,,,what kind of menue should one follow besides avoiding the soy? Thnx

[nonstickpam107]

Well, as far as "menu"...I prefer lowcarb because of the insulin resistance that many with thyroid disease have. "Cabbage family" veggies eaten raw may also slow the thyroid (like brocolli, cabbage, cauliflower, etc.), walnuts, strawberries, if you go to the thyroid disease site at about.com, do a search for goitrogenous foods.

This is NOT to say that they affect EVERYONE this way.....soy seems to affect everyone's thyroid and estrogen balances but things like strawberries, just a little raw cauliflower don't bother ME. Oh, and flaxseed meal/flaxseed are supposed to be goitrogenous, but they don't bother ME (maybe because I cook them in muffins and other goodies, and don't eat them raw). Walnuts and peanuts are ok roasted, but not raw for many.

Also, many doctors (one in particular, Broda Barnes, a noted thyroidologist, and Ridha Arem, too) have made a connection between eating less than 50 (I'm left to assume GROSS) grams of carb and not converting T4 to T3 well. BUT...almost ALL these studies have also been LOW CALORIE and/or LOWFAT too...we already know that very low calorie diets and fasting STOP the conversion of T4 to T3, and that effect doesn't show up until much later (in the form of worsened thyroid disease, sex hormone imbalances, mitral valve prolapse and other heart disease in thyroid patients).

So....I guess eating "clean" would be a thyroid patients best type of menu. Also, eating small meals to boost metabolic levels. Thyroid patients don't lose as quickly as others, even on lowcarb (unless they are severely restricting carbs/calories...then they are at risk of non-conversion), but they DO LOSE on lowcarb, whereas many lowfat/low calorie/lowered protein diets don't work.

HTH

Pam

[Rustyjack]

Pam,

I didn't want to take the T-100, my doctor would not write me another script for Armour. I feel terrible and I do want my Armour back. Was only on the low dose of Armour for 7 days, so your telling me I will have to wait 6 weeks for new blood test so the T3 and T4 will test correctly. I took that T-100 for 7 weeks before the 1 week of Armour. Wonder if I should call my docs office and tell them how bad I feel and see if she will let start back on my Armour.

Jackie

[Rustyjack]

Pam,

Do you have any good doctors in the Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas area?

Jackie

[Rustyjack]

Pam,

Just call my doctors office for thyroid results from April 9, 2004

TSH -.670
Free T3 923
Free T4 .80

I ask what were the normal values and was told the T3 was normal and the T4 was low. This is while I was on 90mg of Armour. What do you think?

I ask her when I was in her office on April 23 if adding some T4 would help and that is when she put me on the T-100 supplement and took me off the Armour.

[nonstickpam107]

I think I would not even hazard a guess at your numbers....there aren't any lab ranges with them....labs vary widely in ranges. So...who knows???

And of COURSE your T3 would be very high, and your T4 low....on Armour. Uh,,,,you see what's going on???? Took away the Armour (cuz you look like you convert well) and put you on something that doesn't have any T3. Are YOU SURE that's what it's called "T-100"??? Is that really Thyroxine? Thyroxine is a T4 ONLY drug.

If it were ME...I would wait out six weeks, do testing again...and see where you are....switching meds back and forth just doesn't help at all when you have a doc going by labs ONLY and not by how their patient FEELS.

I'd sure want my Armour back...when I asked my endo what was considered a "normal" dosage of Armour, he said MOST adults use 120 mg. as a "normal" dosage of Armour, some more, depending. I have mine compounded, and time released so that I have energy and feel good all day. If you felt good on the Armour, I don't see why you couldn't have it...what's the sense of just seeing numbers....you are a human, not a lab number.

Here is a site for the state of Texas of rec. thyroid docs:

http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/...rs%2Ftexas.htm

Pam

[valg]

bumping for Lisa

[Tazcat]

bumping b/c I'm researching thyroid stuff this weekend.

Is there a way to save this to a "favorite thread"?

[Jessicarb]

Dear Pam,

Thanks for your reply. I've been traveling these last couple of weeks and did not get back to you. Yes, I would like to know what endocrinologist you can recommend in my area - South Florida (Miami, Miami Beach).

Thanks.

-Jessica

[nonstickpam107]

I don't have a map of Florida in front of me, so I don't know where you are but my fav doc on this list happens to be Dr. Ken Wolinar in Boca Raton. Why? Because he was gracious enough to even come on the posting forum of the Thyroid Disease site at about.com and help answer questions. If you see him, tell him 'Pyroteknicpam' from about.com sent you. Here's a list for the whole state of Florida:

http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/...%2Fflorida.htm

[inatic]

Hey Pam Isn't she great!!

I just had to have my levels tested again,on my request, I had a mini crash. Waiting on the lab ranges to post but basically it showed that my TSH went down from 1.99 to .73 (Taking Synthoid 88mg and 5 mcg of Cytomel x2 a day. It was switched from taking 100 mg of Synthoid and .5 mcg of Cytomel 2 times a day to because my TSH was going up and my T3 going down.

Interesting my T3 FELL this time, again ,instead of going up taking more Cytomel WHY would that happen?? I thought that the T3 should increase if you are adding T3 , not fall lower than it was I was.
I will post the lab ranges when they arrive, probably on Monday or Tuesday.

Upon receiving these results the Dr. upped my Cytomel to 5mcg 3 times a day with the option to increase it still higher to maybe 1 in the am , 2 at noon and then 1 in the evening or possibly going to the higher dosage(25mcg) following future labwork(in late Aug)
He did note that it might send my TSH too low and we may need to cut the Synthoid a bit, to possible .75mgs (or lower IF need be) and see what happens

Why should you not be hyper going into your 50's or menopause? Just a comment the nurse made(male)What if any is the explanation for this ?

This may or may not be relevant. The only thing that I could note that was different was that in my Weight training program (Body Rx )I have been doing a cutting phase (the last month)did a cutting phase, dropped my carbs from about 140 Yellow(starchy -NOTE: I only eat whole oats, sweet potato, beans and extremely limited brown rice.) gms to about 70, this not including veggies and some fruit to cut fat and lean out. Prior to doing this I felt GREAT!! When I did low carb previously ,I was not able to lose weight well. It seems I do much better on higher carb. I get/got fatter around the middle when i do higher fat , lower carb.

(Valg I wonder if there is something to that as you also crushed during the same phase of BRx too?, interesting ??)

[nonstickpam107]

Oh for Heaven's sake already.....Jeez....you are a PRIME candidate for using Armour Thyroid...BUT....adding T3, even synthetic will OF COURSE send the TSH down...and then you go by the FREE T's to medicate...what does he mean (it might make your TSH go down even more??? DUH!! YEAH) he'd have to lower this, up that....up to 25mcg. of Cytomel...why is that some type of "goal"?? I'm not trying to "pick" here...but for those of us with Hashimoto's, we are already doing the "rollercoaster of hormones" gig...we don't need to have it done by switching this and switching that.

The pot of gold at the end of the thyroid medication rainbow should be when the patient feels "just fine and dandy". That 'up this', 'lower that' stuff is just a rollercoaster. My TSH runs anywhere from a comfy .04 to .35...above that and I can bet my T3 has come down some more. I could not tolerate adding Cytomel to T4...it just would NOT even out for me....but just three months on Armour and I was a happy camper. It's NOT for everybody....but it's certainly nice to have a doc that knows when a patient is given T3, their TSH is NOT going to be a reliable measure of how they are feeling....the actual hormones and patients themselves would be a much better barometer.

Pam

[inatic]

I am not sure I explained that well. It wasnt a goal to get to a certain dose. All of his suggestions were options we could try in an attempt to find that sweet spot.

Let me see what those ranges are when I get them.

I know you think I should try the Amour. I would like too as well. This doc will not do Amour. At this point I am not willing to change my doctor and start over since they do what ever I ask , whenever I ask with the exception of prescribing Amour.

I tried complaining to my pharmacist one day about the dr not wanting to do Amour, on this point he actually agreed with the doc.

The last few days I am feeling better with the addition of more T3

[nonstickpam107]

Yes, I know Ileen...one doctor in the hand is worth four in the bush (thyroid disease anyway), lol. Hey, what about asking your doc if you could have your dosage of Cytomel compounded to be time-released?? Talk to the pharmacies compounder about it FIRST...he or she could really help with suggestions!! With you bodybuilding and exercising I think that would give you the most even, all day energy.

Pam

[inatic]

Pam

I did ask about that . They did give me perscription to do that. Supposedly my pharmacist recommended some one who specializes in compounding but when I asked him about it,it said it couldnt be done. He obviously did know what he was talking about

I didnt know where else to try. I WISH there was a list somewhere that one could find a comppounding pharm.I would love to give that a try. It is a pain to remember to time the dosages or even to take the pills throughout the day.

[nonstickpam107]

Hey, do a search for compounding pharmacies in Atlanta, GA...I happen to know there are at LEAST four who do Cytomel. You see, my compounders do Armour but will NOT do Cytomel...another great reason for switching to Armour...(hint, hint, perhaps that compounding pharmacy you called do Armour...that's what YOUR pharmacist thought you meant....the compounders do more Armour than anything else in the way of T3). So, you find a compounder, talk to them, tell them you KNOW they do Armour, but how do you convince your doc....and they might call and talk to the doctor FOR YOU.

Just put this under the heading "How I got my doc to Rx. Armour for me" cuz this is the way a LOT of patients end up with it.

Ya see?? Pharmacists can be really really useful in our struggle to be medicated properly. Oh, and Jeff here on the the Health boards might even have a "Big Red Book of Compounders" in his bag of tricks...or know where they are listed for your area.

EDITED: Here is a site that lists compounding pharmacies in your are (scroll down after opening):

http://www.calladoctor.net/RxLocations.htm

Pam

[inatic]

Thanks Pam!!

One of those pharmacies is right next o my house.. less than 5 min. He says they dont compound T3(cytomel) Grrrr. I had asked them that a few months ago when the doc gave me the script to have it compounded. THey too wanted to know if it could be done and to let them know so that they could refer other patients.

[emily1965]

bumping

[Tazcat]

bump

[Beth Sch]

Dear Pam,

I PM'd you a message! I have a question!?

Thanks so much!

B

[nonstickpam107]

Bumping for information for new people who have (or think they may have) thyroid disease.

Pam

[Tazcat]

bump

[nonstickpam107]

Bumping for newbies with thyroid questions.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Bump for newbies.

Pam