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Old 02-14-2011, 02:23 PM   #31
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Thank you, Meggabeef. I obvously don't want Hashi's, but have always wondered if hypothryoid was really divided into something like, Type I (Hashimoto's autoimmune) and Type 2...(Just low serum levels or bad cellular receptors)..sort of like diabetes is divided...same name, different diseases. I'm sure the answer is out there, and I just haven't come across it.

Your reply is very interesting.

I am wondering if I perhaps misunderstood the best way to treat my hypothroidism when I first got the low Free T3 and mid range FT4. I thought the hormone replacement would "boost" my own thryoid...sort of help it along a bit.

But reading through some of the posts, I am realizing my thyroid is probably on vacation somewhere now that Armour has been put on board, and it is struggling to bail out all the water in my sinking ship.

My Ft4 was a bit lower than mid-range to start with, but is sinking on Armour, and I think the FT3 was just pooling around somewhere, laughing at my body calling for it...

Last edited by Spoon; 02-14-2011 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:57 PM   #32
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Spoon, how far outside Dallas are you? There is a doctor in Dallas that several of the ladies on the TX Thyroid Group are seeing right now and and having success.
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:59 PM   #33
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Dallas is an easy 45 minute drive! Do you mind letting me know the name...Please oh please?
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:15 PM   #34
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Just sent you a private message.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:35 PM   #35
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Just sent you a private message.
Yay Lilgrnize! This is why I love this board--Spoon has hope now!

Keep us posted on what happens Spoon!

to Lilgrnize!!!
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:17 PM   #36
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Thank you Lilgrnize...I will research TX thyroid group about that doctor and see what they report about adrenals. I really appreciate all the help that this group offers. That, alone, makes this journey less difficult. I was so low last Wednesday I could barely type that pitiful post #1.

I do remember the head of the TX thyroid group warning me that the good docs around here don't take insurance, and I could possibly waste time if things didn't work out, but some had had some luck with one that took my insurance.

In my naive brain fog last October, I figured, why not just get the tests covered with a doctor that at least runs them, see if I can score some NDT, and I'm sure that adrenal stuff will not apply to "moi". Ha.

Truly, I'm a poster child for what not to do with low thyroid. Wouldn't that make a sad reality show...following women around to doctors trying to get their thyroid treated properly. Ack.

Last edited by Spoon; 02-14-2011 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:46 PM   #37
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You and I and a bazillion others could be on that reality show! Hang in there and keep posting to let everyone know how it's going ok?
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:59 AM   #38
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Thank you, Jorose!

ERFA arrived yesterday afternoon....that took awhile! It had been a week since I stopped the Armour, because of the side effects....I can't be sure I can blame the Armour, because I felt better for a few days, then started sliding down to a very, very low day yesterday...

Anyway, here is the plan for now.

1. I took 1 grain ERFA when it arrived (it tastes sweet compaired to Armour)
I will try 1 grain for 10 days or so, then gradually go up to the 2 grains prescribed.

2. I'm charting my temperatures as suggested by Ardrenal support group. It should tell me a bit about how my adrenals are handling incoming thyroid and any increases.

3. Ordering Saliva test, (I was taking StressCure for about a week prior, which is adrenal support...I have to stop that awhile so as not to skew test.)

4. I've pretty much stopped the caffiene except a 1/2 cup a day (sorry, slmunoz, if you read this! This is a tough one for me.)

5. Tracking b/p and pulse at couple of hours after taking ERFA.

6. Filled beta blocker slow release prescription...took as prescribed but it didn't make a difference last night...pulse higher during night...I know this isn't good for adrenals, but I thought I'd see what happened. Not impressed.

7. Food diary...to see if it relates to symptoms.

8. Low carb...but not too low. Pam and others said that I may have stressed thyroid by overdoing the low carb...food diary will help there, too.

9. Make appointment with new doctor that will work with adrenals....down to two possiblities..both are $$$, but I need to do this right.

10. Charted startle wake-ups...they cycle every between every 2 and 2 1/2 hours all night long. Now I'll just ignore them for awhile.

11. Keep taking progesterone. That was only s*X hormone that was low. Iron, ferritin, okay, Keep taking Vitamin D and get more sunshine as my levels are low.

11. Have a thankful heart. I have cyber friends who have come along beside me to give good counsel and encouragment. I have a supportive husband and family that can see I'm trying, though not making much progress yet.

I apologize for being so medically needy around here recently. You guys have been very gracious to keep up with me. I hope to recover enough to be a help to others as you have all been to me.

Spoon
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:00 AM   #39
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11. Have a thankful heart.

This is why you rock!
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:20 PM   #40
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Spoon!
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:35 PM   #41
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Dr. Spark wrote a book called type 2 hypothyroidism. In that book, he talks about dosing with natural thyroid. Now, this was written during the days when Armour was the standard natural dessicated thyroid product on the market. I don't know anything about Erfa. However, from my readings, it is said that one needs to start out on NDT very easily, like 1/2 grain to start. Dr. Spark also talks about administering cortisone at the same time to help the body adjust to the thyroid. He stresses how this all needs to be done properly by people who are properly trained in the use of NDT.

About low carbing. I am not a qualified expert, but from what I read, low carbing is VERY GOOD!!! Apparently, carbs drive the thyroid gland to work harder which isn't good. Protein, drives the thyroid gland to work harder. Fats do not. Dr. Broda Barnes, an expert on the thyroid, says that he promotes high fat, medium protein, low carb eating for underactive thyroid problems. According to him, this ratio of eating puts less stress on the thyroid.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:59 PM   #42
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I was reading the other day a book by Dr. David Brownstein, M.D. who says that most people with hashimoto's disease definitely DO require iodine, and that he cannot properly treat hashi's without iodine. I typed out what he wrote about hashi's and iodine on the thread in the general medical issues section about fcd or "fibrocystic breast disease" and tumours.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:52 PM   #43
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Meggabeef, this is fascinating stuff. I need to research more...I'd love to find the book...I usually find some thyroid book at Halfprice books, and they are so different many times in the authors recommendations.

I realize that I have probably done everything in the book to make life tough for my thyroid...I'm a serial low carb dieter...I really started using it in my mid-20's to keep my weight down...Oprah and I were protein dieting at the same time, and I probably lost more than she did. I realized then I could do it on my own throughout the years, and would yo-yo around after babies, etc.

This about 2 years ago, I lost again on my usual Atkins version of lowcarb...but it was tough..and I gained it again. Then, this past October, no matter what I did...not a budge, only gain. I KNOW how to lose on low-carb...although I will admit I'm pretty much better at high protein dieting than just low carbing.

It is really starting to make sense to me that since I'm non-Hashi's, I may have just worn the poor thyroid out. No telling what I've done to my poor adrenals.

Thanks for your input!

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Old 04-02-2012, 11:24 AM   #44
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Good thyroid Doc in Dallas?

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Originally Posted by Lilgrnize View Post
Spoon, how far outside Dallas are you? There is a doctor in Dallas that several of the ladies on the TX Thyroid Group are seeing right now and and having success.
Hi, Could you please send me the name of the good Dallas thyroid doctor? None of the doctor's I've tried the last couple of years have helped. No matter how much medicine I take, there's no improvement in any of my classic low thyroid symptoms. Thanks
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:41 AM   #45
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Dallas area doctor

I see Dr. W.Marcus-Spurlock
9535 Forest Lane, Dallas, TX 75243
Phone: 214-389-1234

My insurance pays for labs, but doctor visits not covered. Armour is not his first choice for T4/T3 issues but will prescribe it if it is what works for you. He also will prescribe bio-identical hormones. He used to be with a Fibro clinic, then an Environmental Health, but has his own practice opened now. His initial visit is a bit pricey, but for me, it is very worth it to find someone who runs all the tests you could ever imagine, and will treat to symptoms.

I don't visit this site much anymore, but remember this thread. I didn't realize it, but I didn't need T4, so everytime I took anything with it in it, it made me feel worse. I'm on a compounded T3 medication now, and added progesterone, and feel a lot better.

Hope this helps. You may want to join the google Texas Thyroid boards. They are very helpful as well.
Best of health to you!
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:52 AM   #46
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Since this thread was resurrected, I thought I'd just update everyone.

Once I visited a doctor who ran tests for everything, I found that my Reverse T3 was quite high. I switched to Sustained release compounded T3, and am titrating up to somewhere about 75mcg to 82.5mcgs. I am also on compounded oral progesterone, which really made a big difference in how I sleep and feel.

As soon as I got properly treated, my b/p went back to normal, I don't need the beta blockers, blood pressure medicine or ANTI-DEPRESSENTS like my former doctor insisted, and I'm feeling much better. I do need to take himalayan salt and some potassium (either no salt or an over the counter pill) to keep my pulse in the more normal range, and I do drink a lot more water, but the closer I get to being optimized, the better I feel.

I had no idea that my plantar fasciitis and knee pain were related to being under optimized.

Anyway, hope this helps to encourage someone. I am still overweight, but I don't have the water weight anymore, and have lost a few pounds, which is practically a miracle for me, since it has been so long since I was able to lose weight.

This process is a lot longer than I ever imagined when I started this journey, but it has been helpful to find a doctor who is very aware of the importance of thyroid as well as other hormones.

Spoon
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:21 PM   #47
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That's a great update!
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:48 PM   #48
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LarueT, I meant to add as an aside to you, sometimes "classic" thyroid symptoms are something else...in my case, my Vitamin D was quite low, as well as Progesterone. I think it would be helpful, based on what you said in your email, to have a full battery of labs run. I was amazed at how many things this doc checked. In my case, my undiagnosed thyroid had caused my whole body to sort of "rob peter to pay paul"...i.e. it was using other hormones to compensate, and eventually I just couldn't keep up and cratered. If you are to the point you sound like, you might want to go to someone like the doc I mentioned who will look at the whole picture. It took me a loooong time to come to grips with the fact I was not going to be able to rely on my health insurance company to pay for a doctor who would be able to treat me. It took me too long, as a matter of fact, when I look back at how long I was miserable. However, I totally understand anyone who tries to find someone in the system. Money doesn't grow on trees. I had to find a doc, however, that thinks outside of the box where I was concerned.

Spoon

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Old 04-02-2012, 07:04 PM   #49
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I am wondering if some of your symptoms might be caused by the progesterone. I know it's common to see it low as you get closer to 50 but I'm not sure progesterone works well for all of us, even if it's low. I feel much better since I stopped. FYI - I had no trouble on prometrium but compounded P seemed to bring on a whole lot of bad symptoms, including palps and horrid insomnia. I'm pretty suspicious it was progesterone related and now that I am off, both these things have pretty much resolved themselves for now.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:25 PM   #50
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Since this thread was resurrected, I thought I'd just update everyone.

Once I visited a doctor who ran tests for everything, I found that my Reverse T3 was quite high. I switched to Sustained release compounded T3, and am titrating up to somewhere about 75mcg to 82.5mcgs. I am also on compounded oral progesterone, which really made a big difference in how I sleep and feel.

As soon as I got properly treated, my b/p went back to normal, I don't need the beta blockers, blood pressure medicine or ANTI-DEPRESSENTS like my former doctor insisted, and I'm feeling much better. I do need to take himalayan salt and some potassium (either no salt or an over the counter pill) to keep my pulse in the more normal range, and I do drink a lot more water, but the closer I get to being optimized, the better I feel.

I had no idea that my plantar fasciitis and knee pain were related to being under optimized.

Anyway, hope this helps to encourage someone. I am still overweight, but I don't have the water weight anymore, and have lost a few pounds, which is practically a miracle for me, since it has been so long since I was able to lose weight.

This process is a lot longer than I ever imagined when I started this journey, but it has been helpful to find a doctor who is very aware of the importance of thyroid as well as other hormones.

Spoon
I've been reading your posts, Spoon, and everyone else, too, on this thread. Looking for a doc West of Dallas. LOL. opposite of you.

A new doctor I started seeing in October tested me and starting in November she put me on Testosterone gel and Cytomel (liothyronine), but only 2.5 mcg in the morning. That's it. When I had labs done again about eight weeks later, she didn't test rT3... urgh! My T3 and T4 numbers are almost the same... She is way too conservative. Plus, the ZRT labs showed I was low in progesterone and maybe even estradiol, but this new doc is so afraid of estrogen, she says progesterone isn't for me.

Well, I don't think she tested me for all that is needed, though I did have the vitamin D (25-Hydydroxy) lab completed. What about ferritin?

Anyway, my DH labs for thyroid were nearly identical to mine and she didn't put him on the Cytomel... just Testosterone.

So looking at the link one of you posted The National Academy of Hypothyroidism | National Academy of Hypothyroidism | Helping Doctors Help Patients, Empowering Patients with Knowledge to see if I can locate a good doc there. I just checked out at the public library Suzanne Somers' book Bombshell. I think I also need to read either Ageless or Breathless, or both!

Sorry for the ramble and this is my first post... probably not where to put this, but hoping to connect with some other D/FW folks for a good doc in the area.

(Oh, and I have knee pain, too, though an MRI this October shows a slighly torn miniscus in the left knee, though sometimes the right one hurts, too!)

Thanks!

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Old 01-31-2013, 03:08 PM   #51
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Doc I see in in North Dallas. You have to pay up front for the visit, and is a lot higher than I paid for initial visit since he has moved and opened his own practice. Your insurance may or may not cover it. However, he runs all the necessary labs for thyroid including RT3,Free T3, Free T4. vitamin D, s*x hormones, plus a lot more.... He definately thinks outside the box.

I tried a doc in Irving who ran some of the labs, but is so conservative, I was undertreated and miserable.

If you want to join the Texas Thyroid groups on Yahoo, the moderator is very knowledgable and keeps a database on the docs in the area. I'm thinking you may have to drive to N Dallas, though, but think about joining the group and asking questions. It has helped me a lot.

Do check out the group at yahoo: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...hyroid_Groups/
and ask to join. I think that would be your best place to start connecting with Texans who can tell you the ins and outs of the doctors around here. I think you can find a doctor that is more willing to look at all the pieces of the puzzle.

Spoon

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Old 02-01-2013, 12:44 PM   #52
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Thank you, Spoon!
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:51 PM   #53
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Anyone have a good endocrynologist / thyroid doctor in the Minneapolis/St. Paul region, or anywhere in Minnesota for that matter?
All my labs are normal except for a slightly low Free T3 = 2.16.
Sed Rate is usually 14 to 16.
My symptoms include:
fatigue (comes and goes almost randomly). Certain foods especially carbohydrates and maybe cauliflower triggers the fatigue. Usually the fatigue seems random. Can last for an hour or a day or more.
cold body temp. usually runs at 97.7 F. Sometimes drops to 96.6. Once I registered it at 93.6F. Accompanied with chills.
Elevated cholesterol
very dry skin
impaired memory sometimes and slower thinking sometimes
lightheadedness
gluten intolerance.
Seen a couple docs. They have nothing to offer other than go on antidepressants. Seeing an endocrynologist. Endo does not think that Free T3 is significant. Called it a red herring. Endo's suggestion is to go on antidepressants as well! Will that take care of all these symptoms?
It appears these symptoms are linked more to thyroid and adrenals, based on my research.
Similar to what Spoon was saying, when I experience the fatigue and chills, family life, work and life in general is just really hard. Let alone the limited diet.
If anyone has had first hand experience with a good doctor in Minnesota that can help me with a similar condition, I would appreciate it. If not, I'd even be open to travelling to other states if I had to.

Last edited by benhurf; 01-16-2014 at 03:54 PM.. Reason: clarify symptoms
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:05 PM   #54
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I'm thinking of stopping my thyroid treatment.My symptoms are much worse after starting thyroid treatment in October, 2010. I started with 1/2 grain Armour, then have moved up gradually to 1 1/2 grain, split.

As time goes by, after a brief period of feeling better, I am doing worse. My current labs indicate that my TSH is near 1, but the free's are near bottom of the range.

I was going to switch to ERFA when it arrives (from NZ), but I'm doing so poorly I'm thinking of stopping altogether. The last few nights, I have had horrible adreneline surges that start the moment I drift off to sleep. I wake in a panic and my normal b/p and pulse are extremely elevated until I walk around and calm down. This is happening even more in the last few weeks. Normal b/p in the day, slightly elevated pulse, then when the surges hit...wow! Terrifying.

Since my October labs said I'm extremely low on progesteone, I started a compunded transdermal three nights ago....first night was okay, now everything is a mess.

I'm wondering how to back out of everything....thyroid meds, progesterone, etc. I'm thinking as bad as I was, I feel even worse now.

My doctor hasn't returned my fax (from last week) or phone call (yesterday) about my concerns...I am so bad at figuring this out...labs say I'm not getting enough replacement, but when I try to go up, I get horrible heart palpitations, anxiety, etc. I don't think my body wants its metabolism adjusted.

I don't have Hashimotos, as far as I know, because I had almost no antibodies on tests.

My area of the world is BAD for thyroid treatment..even the Yahoo group for my state has problems finding a good doc. Some of my problems may be from perimenopause...apparently it is dangerous to be a 49 year old female. That is a whole other uncharted world for me.

So, my question for myself is do I wean off thyroid and just live with the old, less dibilitating symptoms? This new normal is much worse than the old one.
I don't even know how to wean off of it...I thought it was going to help, so now I'm just at an awful crossroad with not a clue where to go from here. I actually think all my efforts have made things much worse.

I knew it was going to be tough, but this is harder than I thought. I love reading how some of you are feeling better...that is an encouragement!

Here's where I started:
TSH 2.30 (.03-5.1) but my desired level: Less than 1
FT4 1.21 (.73-1.95) but desired level 1.34
FT3 2.8 (2.3-4.2) but desired level 3.725

Here is where I am:

1/12/2011
TSH 1.13 (.45-4.500) desired would be Less than 1
FT4 .090 (.82-1.77) desired would be 1.295
FT3 2.8 ((2.0-4.4) desired would be 3.80 (no meds prior per advice)

I'm so miserable. I feel sorry for my poor husband, who witnessed an awful night last night, and my kids, who were so hopeful to get their mommy back. I kept thinking I would round a corner and be better....
I was just about to say HERE TOO! Then I looked at your location - I'm actually IN Dallas.

It is SHOCKING to me how a city of this size can have such...weak doctors. I have had some NUTS over the past several years.
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:30 AM   #55
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BTW what do you do for adrenals? Years ago I saw another endo and he said I had major adrenal fatigue. But on another forum a bunch of posters said adrenal fatigue was still "junk science" and that they'd be wary of a doctor who used that term.

I can't find any information about how to heal them. Or, how to help metabolic syndrome
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