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Old 10-15-2010, 06:38 AM   #1
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how long does it take T3 and T4 to clear the body?

This goes with my research on Timing and testing.. trying to figure out why some drs test the way they do.
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Old 10-15-2010, 06:40 AM   #2
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on my Ga bb im doing a survey as to the timing of meds 'cause it varies quite a bit..

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I think so. T3 I believe takes about 10 hours to clear. T4 I believe is 3-4 days. So I gather measuring T4 is really moot.

T3, however, poses a different challenge. You don't want to measure that initial spike, because you'd get an artificially high blood level. What I wonder about is at what rate those levels decline over the course of the day. Is it a steady decline or is there a huge drop off and then a more steady decline? I think this is highly individual; i.e. what level of absorption do they possess?, are there gut issues?, how fast is there metabolism?, does stress affect med absorption?
Another gent said 6 or so hrs. but his previous dr did no meds prior.
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:31 AM   #3
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Ilene,
I googled this yesterday and got different answers...but the most common was "1 day" for T3 and 1 week for T4.

Maybe it's not clear due to the individuality mentioned in your quote. I can usually feel when T3 is starting to decline though.

In my case I think my doc is either testing more for how I'm converting, or he doesn't know how short the half life of T3 really is!
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:57 AM   #4
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Ileen,

for the synthetic cytomel according to the insert on the version made by King Pharm (which is the one I found by looking):
Quote:
Since liothyronine sodium (T3) is not firmly bound to serum protein, it is readily available to body tissues. The onset of activity of liothyronine sodium is rapid, occurring with a few hours. Maximum pharmacologic response occurs within 2 or 3 days, providing early clinical response. The biological half-life is about 2 1/2 days.

T3 is almost totally abosorbed, 95 % in 4 hours. The hormones contained in the natural preparations are absorbed in a manner similar to the synthetic hormones.

Liothyronine sodium has a rapid cutoff of activity which permits quick dosage adjustment and facilitates control of the effedt of overdosage, should they occur.

The higher affinity of levolthyroxine (T4) for both thyroid-binding globulin and thyroid-binding prealbumin as comapres to tri-iodothyronine (T3) partially explains the higher serum levels and longer half-life of the former hormone. Both protein-bound hormones exist in reverse equilibrium with minute amounts of free hormone, the latter accounting for the metabolic activity
btw, I had to type that out from the site so if there is a typo, totally my fault.

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Old 10-15-2010, 09:06 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by inatic View Post
This goes with my research on Timing and testing.. trying to figure out why some drs test the way they do.
1. How much does the patient weigh?
2. How old is the patient?
3. How is the body of the patient 'configured' (how much fat, how much muscle, etc.
4. Does the patient have antibodies?
5. Does the patient have: stomach ulcers, GI disease, Celiac, any other autoimmune diseases?
6. Does the patient take on empty stomach?
7. Does the patient eat right after, an hour after, two?
8. Does the patient follow a rigorous exercise program? How long after taking the T3/T4.

Forgive me, I was AT my doctor's office getting injections and such and was reading on Ipad...and asked my doc! Those were the questions he wanted answered so he could answer MY question.

He said he KNOW what MY body does though.

And he said that almost ALL humans, not over 600 lbs. use T3 in the body (supped T3, not their own) within six hours...it's already metabolically broken down and has 'left the building' at that time.

ME? I use up to 12mcg. of T3 in about three and a half hours..it's GONE. (yep, been there, done the studies!). Why? Cuz my respirations are MUCH faster than a 'normal, non affected lung' person.

T4 'lingers' in the body 'hoping' to be converted. If you give a hypothyroid patient weighing UNDER 600 lbs. than 100mcg. of T4 is usually GONE from the body in about five weeks...if the person is active.

Now...there's also the question of: Does the person use replacement hormones? That changes everything. Especiall testosterone, which affects some people's rate of respiration also (especially in a female...especially in a female with asthma....testosterone and asthma is not a good thing for many).

The 'clinical' half life of T4 is 'roughly' six weeks, give or take four days. The half life of T3 is only four hours...MAX..less if you are working out and sweating it out or your respiration and heart rate is high.

Oh and the endocrinologist said that 'Just because T4 or T3 is still in a few tissues and you're testing a TRACE, doesn't mean it's 'working for you'. clear as mud...ain't it? But he said just because the pharmacologic info (like from King?) says all that, doesnt' mean it's happening that way in YOUR specific body. He said he's seen all kinds of 'lab info' like that challenged all the time in studies. ??

ETA...and he just said that that's the 'reasonable answer for humans not someone working in a lab'...but if I wanted that info, the lab already had it.

Pam

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Old 10-15-2010, 09:10 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Dharma View Post
Ilene,
I googled this yesterday and got different answers...but the most common was "1 day" for T3 and 1 week for T4.

Maybe it's not clear due to the individuality mentioned in your quote. I can usually feel when T3 is starting to decline though.

In my case I think my doc is either testing more for how I'm converting, or he doesn't know how short the half life of T3 really is!
Nope...rate of conversion is done taking the FT's six weeks AFTER starting any T4....and 5.5 hours after T3. Once you are with a doc for a couple months, and he's tested you a couple times (with NO T3 hormone given, just T4) he can tell if you are 'converting'. Problem.....some docs see your FT3 a point up from bottom and think that's just 'fine and dandy'.

Pam
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:32 AM   #7
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those are great questions Pam.

but really do we know how some truely converts/uses up that t3 even if we can figure those questions out.

I guess im just really trying to understand why some drs insist on testing sans meds and some like your insist on the 4-5hr time frame.

some other answers to the T3 i got were 24hrs.

So if the t3 does remain in the body that long, and then we take a dose and test, we're testing the 'topping' off of that dose to what remained.. but if we test sans no meds, then we are testing what if any that remained?
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:42 PM   #8
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Nope, not unless we are in a lab. So, the bottom LINE is how we feel.

If it's T3 you're testing with NONE in ya..than no...blood tests cannot pick that up. I've been told urine 'might' but tried to prove it and it didn't, lol, and salivary might (but also did not work...I came up with zero in urine, zero in salivary after 12 hours, and blood testing showed me at the VERY LAST inside the bottom range).

It depends on metabolism too. I wish you lived near me or vice versa Ileen...I'd like to both take same dose, both test at four and a half hours. I'm BETTING you'd have way less T3 in ya than I do just by virtue of your metabolism being higher than mine.

Now, my BFF Bea and I did that...she doesn't work out, she takes soem of the same meds I do (asthma) and while I was in PA three years ago, we tried it. I had worked out at Anytime Fitness in her town that morning...we took our Armour at same time same type of Armour, procured from same pharmacy and same batch. We both tested exactly 4.5 hours later. (We weigh the same, same height, same age). She had a FT3 of 3/4 of range yet mine was BARELY midway. It was about a week after I had to raise my dose, yet that winter...I was down with lung problems, couldn't lift/workout and had to go right back down in dosage.

And there is a trainer in the Fort who sees the same doc and she has to split her T3 ALL DAY LONG for it to 'stick' with her.
Pam

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Old 10-17-2010, 02:48 PM   #9
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Pam/Ileen...that's me with the T3...I have to split it into 4-5 doses a day. For a while it was 5, but now I'm comfortably down to 4.

By the way, my doc insists on testing exactly at the 3 hour mark! Makes for HIGH ranges of FT3!!!!!
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:34 PM   #10
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would be interesting to see what happens to a dose after i trained. wheni test, its always early am and i dont train.

i do multi dose especially since when i test at 4-5hrs (1.25grain splits )my FT3 is top of range, dont want dr barking..so that means i can keep the other doses and be fine. thing is, i feel like i need more even though the range is there.

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Old 10-17-2010, 05:14 PM   #11
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Yes, Ileen, you need to be 'careful' like that cuz if you don't, you may be in danger of the doc lowering your dose. I feel bad for folks who have to do that too.

Can you SMELL the pig thyroid when you train? I get the ammonia smell first (always...ALWAYS...hideous, and the reason I HATE to train in a gym with others) and then I smell like Armour Thyroid sweat factory! Am I the only one?

So...I don't train as hard as you Ileen...I can't...and if I am sweating out MY thyroid like that (cuz I am...my goodness, Rick says 'Ewww..why do you smell like that? You smell like your thyroid med!") than I'm just wondering if you might be just sweating out anything you've taken in the way of thyroid.

Now, I dont like to tell a newbie that they should 'go by how you feel' cuz they are still titrating up in dosage and they don't need to go 'too far' and go hyper (they don't know what to look for yet)...but in your case...I do believe I'd have to go for how I was feeling.

See? mimers is at the three hour mark! (Does Dr. C also test his pig thyroid patients the same...or do they have to wait till four hour mark?). And I'm wondering how synthetic T3 differs from pig thyroid in how IT is utilized by the body. Wonder if it's different (doesnt' it have to be? it IS synthetic).

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Old 10-17-2010, 05:33 PM   #12
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i really dont sweat much when i train and I never smell the meds.

I only really get sweaty doing moderately intense cardio.
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:34 PM   #13
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The gals on my Ga bb test without meds. I think jan on texas site does too. None of them like the STTM site and we arent even allowed to mention it so i find it really interesting.
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:47 PM   #14
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Isn't she going to run for President too? (Sorry, couldn't resist, so far....over 40 people have written me FUMING that they've been 'kicked off' the thyroid sites .... and ten of them I had to actually see 'why'....oh...there it is...they asked questions! Heck, THAT'S not allowed!).

I 'belong' to the groups (all of them...) but I never post...I use them only if someone asks for help and tells me what they've been 'told'.

I also left about.com a long time ago (years) after everyone jumped on me about being lowcarb (in the beginning of my 'journey). Some of them were so MAD...OMG....as if I HAD to do what THEY said. LOL Now, of course, they tout lowcarb for thyroid. Eh...I was a rabble rouser!

Pam

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Old 10-17-2010, 06:01 PM   #15
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>>>See? mimers is at the three hour mark! (Does Dr. C also test his pig thyroid patients the same...or do they have to wait till four hour mark?). And I'm wondering how synthetic T3 differs from pig thyroid in how IT is utilized by the body. Wonder if it's different (doesnt' it have to be? it IS synthetic). >>>

I was on pig thyroid (compounded NDT) when he first tested me. He likes Armour best and always tests *ON* the 3 hour mark. That's how he know what is "peak". Last test was on Cytomel (synthetic T3 only) and he still wanted it at exactly the 3 hour mark. VERY specific about that!
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:03 PM   #16
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my old endo wanted 2hr mark.

so then 6hrs would be past peak for him? we as we test, per pam at the 4.5hr mark.
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:04 PM   #17
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If I were YOU..I'd be temped to test at the 10 hour mark (to keep me a steady supply).

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Old 10-17-2010, 06:08 PM   #18
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LOL
so far, they havent barked at my labs.
my script is written for me to get 4grains.

i sent off to canada for my script and have a nice little stash.
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:16 PM   #19
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Very interesting discussion. As I've said before, i'm trying to figure out the optimal timing for T3 doses relative to my speedskating workouts. At first, it seemed that 2 hours after a dose (I take it 4 times a day) was best; now it seems like it has to be at least 3 hours, but no more than 4. Frustrating! Several times I"ve been in the middle of a tough endurance workout that I started too close to my T3 dose--feeling crappy and convinced I couldn't finish the workout, when suddenly I'd start to feel better and finish the workout easily, and I'm pretty sure it was the T3 kicking in (this never happened in my pre-hypo days...I'd feel good at the start of a workout and get progressively more tired, as people normally do). I'm going to do my first weekend of racing next weekend and I really wish I knew how far before the races to take my T3! (to complicate matters, I'm not sure if I'll know beforehand exactly when my races will be). I was just talking to a hypo friend and we were wondering if those who convert T4 to T3 normally have it easier--do their bodies convert however much they need (for working out, etc) as long as they keep their T4 level high enough? Wheras us poor converters who take T3 need to try to mimic what our bodies would naturally do, by timing our doses of T3 to coincide with our peak times of need?

It's enough to make your head spin...
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:32 PM   #20
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I guess Im the only 'stinky, sweaty one'. I guess I'd rather smell like pig thyroid than pig poop though.

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Old 10-17-2010, 06:33 PM   #21
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lol
you are doing a lot more intensity than i am to be sweating. My rest intervals are sometimes 2min.. then 1min.. maybe a set of two at 30 but then 60s rest.
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:47 PM   #22
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Guess I'm glad I'm on synthetic...I sweat a lot, especially on those plus-90-degree days...and I'm pretty sure I smell bad enough on my own, without a pig's help!
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:39 AM   #23
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I know what ya mean...but you're only getting T4 and T3...I'm getting T1 and T2 and calcitonin with mine.

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Old 10-18-2010, 08:16 AM   #24
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Really interesting. I'm just going to sit over here and read because I can't contribute anything on this, though I went for my first round of labs last week since being on ERFA and diagnosed with high RT3.

I took 1/2 pill at 7:45am (on the dot), labs were done at 12:15 -on the 4 1/2 hour mark-. And, I didn't eat or drink anything (didn't know if it was a fasting lab??); had a headache from hell without morning coffee but was glad I followed protocal.

Honestly, my NP didn't suggest a timeframe; I went by what I read on here. Odd that the timeframe varies so much from doc to doc.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:27 AM   #25
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Madger, if the only tests you are having are thyroid T4/T3 free's...you don't have to fast dear....sorry about your headache. I woulda been carrying my thermos with me, lol.

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Old 10-18-2010, 09:31 AM   #26
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Madger, if the only tests you are having are thyroid T4/T3 free's...you don't have to fast dear....sorry about your headache. I woulda been carrying my thermos with me, lol.

Pam
Good to know, lol!! I'll remember that for next time.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:06 AM   #27
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I am only taking 10mcg of the Cytomel and break it up into two doses per day. I started it a few months ago and I do have much more energy.

Pam - you had mentioned the sweating and a smell. I noticed that since I started the Cytomel I seem to sweat more and in places I didn't before when I am working out. For example about five minutes into my workout I sweat in the crook of my elbows of all places ... it is very weird. Also my stand-by Secret deoderant seems to have stopped working - I was using it about five times a day and always felt like I was smelly ... UGH. It's not a med type smell just more than normal BO stink - still totally undesirable!!! So I switched to Mitchum which is quite a bit stronger and all is well. The extra sweating during the workout doesn't bother me but I have to towel off more often during my cardio than I used to. It's worth it since I feel better!

On the website comments - there are so many out there I was thoroughly overwhelmed when I started looking into my hypothyroidism seriously on my own. For what it's worth I can't stand the STTM website - just too out there for me and the about.com seems to have the same information over and over again. You guys on this site have been a great source of knowledge, encouragement and comfort for me even though I don't post often. I am so very grateful.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:14 AM   #28
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Um, no I smell like pork. Is what I'm saying. I'm serious. I have the distinct smell of pig thyroid in my sweat. And ONLY when I am in the gym, working out lifting weights. NO other time. Makes me self conscious.

I started at at sites like about.com....and after my 22 years of thyroid patient advocation...sometimes it takes 'honey' and other times it takes great determination and in your face to get the care that we need.

You're so welcome, and it's always nice to know that all the folks here are this appreciated...bless you.!

Pam
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