Really hoping for some advice! Please!

[kkc1234]

I will try to make a long story short and hope that someone with some knowledge has the patience to read and advise! My entire life I was one of those lucky people that weighed 105 lbs. @ 5' tall. Had 3 children and always lost the weight quickly. 3 yrs. ago I started into perimenopause and things have been unbearable ever since! Aside from numerous, severe menopause symptoms, I have gained 45 lbs.! No matter what I do, I just keep gaining weight. It is very scary! I jogged 2 miles a day, worked out at Curves 6 days a week, joined weight watchers, etc., etc. Nothing seems to help. I have went from a size 2 or 4 to a size 12 or 14. When you are barely 5 ft. tall, 45 lbs. is a lot of weight!

I have been to numberous doctors and tried various things. When I tried bioidentical Estradiol, I gained 10 lbs. in 4 weeks!! Right now I am taking Progesterone and Testosterone creams. One Dr. felt that I should try compounded T3 and T4, another one thought that I needed only Cytomel, which I swear made me feel really crappy. Most recently (2 dys. ago) I started on 1/4 grain of Nature Throid and might feel a tiny bit more energy, but feel like I'm starving to death. My general physician is insistent that I do not have a thyroid problem at all and believes it's very dangerous to take any thyroid meds. Of course he has no explanation for my sudden weight gain or how to stop it!

My recent labs are below. I would sincerely appreciate any suggestions! :-)

2/04/2010

T3 Total 107 (76-181)
T3 Reverse 28 (11-32)
T4 Total 9.0 (4/5-12.5)
Ferritin 15 (10-332)
Progesterone 2.0
TSH, 3rd Generation 1.26 (0.40-4.50)
Estradiol 78

This Dr. believes the ratio of the T3 Total and T3 Reverse should fall between 10-14, with mine being 3.8. Therefore, he started me on 5 mcg. of Cytomel 2x a day, which made me feel really tired.

Prior to that: 7/23/2009

TSH 3RD generation 1.42 (0.40-4.50)
T4 Free 0.9 (0.8-1.8)
T3 Free 311 (230-420)
Thyroglobulin AB <20 S/B <20
Thyroid Peroxidase AB <10 S/B <35
T3 Reverse 32 (11-32)

I would appreciate any comments on the above results in as far as if it could possibly be a thyroid problem causing my weight gain and what medication might be most appropriate? Thx. !

Kendee

[inatic]

hun you need to have FREE t3 and Free T4 run all the time..
the Total T3 seems low and likely the free levels would be even lower.

It doesnt seem like you are on enough meds?

the comparison of labs needs to be with FREE t3 and RT3, not the TOTAL.

your ferritin is low (should be at least 70) was the dr concerned about that?

when you list labs for the sex hormones.. where in your cycle were you? Do you have a cycle?

Have you ever done a 4x a day salivary test for adrenals.. Vit D testing?

might have left something out.

where are you located?

[inatic]

double post

[qbert]

I know your story since I am in the same place.

When one hormone is "off" it can send all of them into a tizzy. I am thinking of getting my cortisol tested (again) and thyroid. I've found if tsh looks okay doctors will not treat which is wrong.

Menopause is no joke. Long before my estrogen and progesterone went kaput I was in trouble.

I will let you know if I get anywhere with my search....still looking for help.

I want to add my ferritin will NOT go up to 70, after several years of iron supplements. Have no idea why this is so. My D is 32. I was told my cortisol was normal. (want it retested)

[nonstickpam107]

You need a 4x in one day salivary cortisol. Progesterone and testosterone (and estradiol too) actually will BIND T4 to T3 conversion even MORE. So, not enough thyroid, and then they don't 'get it' that the hormones they ARE giving are binding even MORE of the thyroid.

I think the right testing, the right DOCTOR (well versed in thyroid...not just your 'regular doc') would be appropriate.

If you could give where you live (just general, like: I live in Indiana, but the borders of Ohio and Michigan aren't very far away) or major cities near where you are.

I'm short too (5' 1")) and was 277 pounds when I started my thyroid and menopause problems. I'm about 114 today (I waver between 112 and 123) and have been for about eight years. I was small, thin when young. (Before kids).

I got the right doctor. It took about a year and a HALF of treatment before I felt back to 'me'. It's a long road to recovery, and you don't need doctors who don't recognize what 'normal labs' are.

Pam

[kkc1234]

Hi Pam! Thanks for the response! You have actually given me a bit of hope! I am literally crying, thinking that maybe there is an end to this nightmare. I have had the 4x a day salivary cortisol test done. Mine was elevated in the a.m., depressed the rest of the day.
I got more lab results today, and my Free T3 was high, but I would guess that to be because I had taken Cytomel 3 hrs. prior to the draw? I just don't know if I should be on Cytomel or Naturthroid?? My doctors are willing to give me whatever I want, but I don't think that they really know what to do. BTW......I live 1 hour north of Pittsburgh, PA. I'm not so convinced that there is a right dr. for me. I have been to numerous ones in this area that claim to treat thyroid and BHRT, but when it comes right down to it, they are willing to write the scripts, but don't know what to do. Very frustrating to say the least.

[nonstickpam107]

Well things can change, but elevated cortisol in am and lower at night is the way it should be.

that's not ironic, I lived in PA when I was hospitalized for myxedema coma...and couldn't get thyroid care there. Need to see the lab results with the ranges from your lab copy. Natural is always better. Always. go with the naturethroid....would be my advice...but can you GET Naturethroid there? Others are having quite the problem getting a steady supply.

Pam

[kkc1234]

Hello Ileen! So, my doctor used the wrong values for the ratio?? It really seems that none of the doctors around here know what they are doing. I have had the saliva cortisol testing done. It was elevated in the a.m. and depressed the other three. In as far as my Ferritin being low, yes my doctor is concerned about that. It has come up to 15 from 7 when I was initially tested. I take iron picolinate 50 mg. 2x a day for that. It is more difficult to get it in now though without taking it too close to the thyroid med. My vitamin D tests around 37, with 6,000 iu of drops daily. Without the drops, it's around 7-9. I live in sunny PA, can you tell! LOL About 1 hr. north of Pittsburgh. I skip cycles for months at a time, so there is really no way to know when those sex hormones were drawn. I did get some new ones drawn that were done on day 21, as I recently had a period. I hope to post those tomorow. Thanks for taking the time to look at my information!

Kendee

[copar]

Pam, I had no idea you had lost so much weight. Good for you. Could you give me an idea of how long the process of losing such a large amount of weight took. I am heavy for the first time in my life and although I am losing, it is at a snails pace. I have been losing lately at a rate of about a half a pound a week. This is with working out and eating well. I am just glad the gaining has stopped and guess it will just take as long as it takes. Thanks

Copar

[nonstickpam107]

I started the book/plan 'Protein Power' (although I HAD read Atkins '72 when it first came out) by Dr. Micheal and Mary Dan Eades six months before I was treated for hypothyroidism. I lost 50 pounds using their book/plan before I was even treated and lost the first 50 pounds in a little under three and a half months. The rest came off at the rate of about 14 pounds a month. At the end of my weightloss (goal) I started lifting weights (my lungs don't 'do' cardio well...I consider my job my cardio...as I am on my feet either walking fast/running for eight plus hours, no breaks/lunch, etc....).

I never did really 'go off' the eating plan...I'm Celiac so no gluten anyway...and I don't eat sugar. I'm all about 'how I look and feel' rather than a number on a scale these days. And I eat more veggies than I ever did when I was overweight (go figure!).

I DID notice though, that when I would eat almost ALL meat/eggs and hardly NO veggies I would stall out with losing weight (every in the beginning of my weightloss). And I attribute that to thyroid disease. The thyroid really likes veggies and fresh water and SOME protein, but doesn't tend to like lots of fat and just meat/eggs. I never went below 1500 calories a day either. And I 'stagger' it all. One day I'll eat 1500 cals, then I'll do 1300 the next day, then up to 1900 the next (the higher my cals go up, the less fat/more carbs I eat that day), then back to 1500 and so on. Once every two weeks I hit 2000 cals in a day. I did a lot of Pilates before I started lifting weights too.

I tend to have the same stamina at work as the 30 yr. olds do. I'm 55.

Pam

[kkc1234]

Pam, congratulations on your weight loss! That is great! I cannot lose even a single pound! In spite of joining weight watchers and following it to a T, jogging 2 miles a day, joining Curves, I not only haven't lost 1 single pound, I have continued to gain! Really scary! I will have to read up on the Atkins diet and Protein Power. Did you end up taking any hormones? How did you treat your thyroid? You said that you lived in PA at the time, were you able to find a competent doctor in this area? I'm not sure if I will be able to get Naturthroid or not. I have about 1 month supply. What are you guys recommending instead? Sorry for all the questions, I am a most curious type!

[kkc1234]

I am not sure if this is of any help, but picked up new labs drawn on Day 21 of cycle.

TSH 3RD GEN 0.700 (0.35-4.94)

CORTISOL RANDOM 4.9 AM CORTISOL 4.2 - 38.4

THYROX (T4) FREE 0.8 (0.7 - 1.5)

DHEAS 109 (25-220)

ESTRADIOL 49

FOLLICULAR 39-189
MIDCYCLE PEAK 94-508
LUTEAL 48-309 ****** I believe this is me (day 21)
POST MENOPAUSAL <50

PROGESTERONE 2.0

FOLLICULAR PHASE <1.4
LUTEAL PHASE 3.3 - 26.0 ***I think I should be here (day 21)?
POST-MENOPAUSAL <0.7

FREE T3 4.1 H (1.71-3.71) *Should I be concerned about this?
I took Cytomel @8:30 and had blood
draw around 10:30/11:00
TESTOST, % FREE 0.81 (0.50-2.00%)

TEST, FREE 2.1 (0.1-6.4)

TESTOST TOTAL 26 (2-45)

IGF-I 121 (88-249)

IGF BIND PROT-3 3.4 (3.3-6.7)

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by kkc1234

Pam, congratulations on your weight loss! That is great! I cannot lose even a single pound! In spite of joining weight watchers and following it to a T, jogging 2 miles a day, joining Curves, I not only haven't lost 1 single pound, I have continued to gain! Really scary! I will have to read up on the Atkins diet and Protein Power. Did you end up taking any hormones? How did you treat your thyroid? You said that you lived in PA at the time, were you able to find a competent doctor in this area? I'm not sure if I will be able to get Naturthroid or not. I have about 1 month supply. What are you guys recommending instead? Sorry for all the questions, I am a most curious type!

Weight Watchers actually made me gain weight (be that was before I knew that I had Celiac and that those with hypothyroidism can be VERY sensitive to wheat/gluten.

Not one doctor in PA would treat, they only did a TSH and mine was .33 so they 'assumed' that was 'fine'. Not. I wasn't hyPER, I was hyPO. It wasn't till I got the Indiana that I found a really good thyroid doctor and began Armour after a year of block and replace.

Yes, I also did compounded progesterone (after they tested, of course) and estradiol later on. I weaned off the BHRT after having used it for seven years.

Read through all the threads. Most are getting their porcine thyroid from canada ERFA...you will see that, and some are getting it compounded (but not every compounder is mixing a good 'compound'...mine is and setting it in olive oil but is very careful to make sure of how MUCH T4 and T3 are being put in and where he is getting the porcine powder to compound with.

Pam

[copar]

Pam, thanks for the information on your weight loss. I have ordered Protein Power from Amazon last week and am waiting for it to be delivered. I am encouraged to see that using this plan your were able to lose weight at a pretty fast pace. I am at a disadvantage as I don't like too many vegetables but will learn to eat more of them if that is what it takes. I got weighed in at my gym today, we do a version of the biggest loser show. and I lost one third of a pound. At this rate I will be too old to enjoy my weight loss if it ever even happens. Thanks for the inspirational words, and have a great weekend.

Copar

[qbert]

Originally Posted by copar

Pam, thanks for the information on your weight loss. I have ordered Protein Power from Amazon last week and am waiting for it to be delivered. I am encouraged to see that using this plan your were able to lose weight at a pretty fast pace. I am at a disadvantage as I don't like too many vegetables but will learn to eat more of them if that is what it takes. I got weighed in at my gym today, we do a version of the biggest loser show. and I lost one third of a pound. At this rate I will be too old to enjoy my weight loss if it ever even happens. Thanks for the inspirational words, and have a great weekend.

Copar

Copar you sound like me. I expanded my horizons and I recommend cauliflower (there's a lot you can do with it) and broccoli. You can roast a lot of veggies too. I like artichoke hearts when I eat out but have no idea what to do with them at home.

[copar]

gbert, I think you are supposed to avoid cauliflower and broccoli, if you struggle with hypothyroid. I know some people eat it and adjust their hormone replacement to compensate for it. I am finally where I should be with my thyroid hormones and don't want to start messing around with everything. I appreciate the thought though.... Copar

[maile]

Originally Posted by copar

gbert, I think you are supposed to avoid cauliflower and broccoli, if you struggle with hypothyroid. I know some people eat it and adjust their hormone replacement to compensate for it. I am finally where I should be with my thyroid hormones and don't want to start messing around with everything. I appreciate the thought though.... Copar

the caution against cauliflower and broccoli are for when they are eaten raw. if they are eaten cooked it destroys the goitrogens which are the "bad" part for thyroid peeps

[qbert]

Originally Posted by copar

gbert, I think you are supposed to avoid cauliflower and broccoli, if you struggle with hypothyroid. I know some people eat it and adjust their hormone replacement to compensate for it. I am finally where I should be with my thyroid hormones and don't want to start messing around with everything. I appreciate the thought though.... Copar

Oh you are right, so sorry. I just read about those two vegetables being bad for those who are hypothyroid. I wish I could blame my problems on them but I don't eat them often enough to feel like they are the root of whatever is wrong with me.

[kkc1234]

Pam, should I be concerned about the elevated Free T3 above?? I did take Cytomel 3 hrs. prior to the draw. Also worried about the low cortisol. Should I be worried about that? Does that mean that I have adrenal fatigue? Does any of my other bloodwork look concerning? Also, I take it from your prior post that you were not able to find a competent dr. in PA?? What would be the closest that you would recommend?

[nonstickpam107]

Next time you test, you take your split dose of Cytomel and test FOUR hours later. And that means a FREE T3, not total. Wait to see that.

I don't have any doctor that I recommend in PA. Not anymore anyway (the two that I DID recommend have moved away to other States). Just being able to GET Cytomel is a plus though (and things have changed in all the years I've been away from PA). I know I'd like to find a T3 giving doc in Western PA for all my friends there, and we will be moving there upon retirement (and I'll be travelling back HERE for my thyroid care).

Pam

[kkc1234]

I know of at least three doctors who are "T3 giving" as you say. If you need the info. for your friends, just let me know. What do you mean by my "split dose of Cytomel"?? Is it seriously concerning to have a T3 that high?? I know the doc is going to give me a hard time about it and I would like to have the confidence to defend myself. LOL

[watcher513]

split dose of Cytomel means - you take 1/2 of it in the morning and 1/2 around 5 hours later (afternoon), i.e. split dose.

Your results are probably that high on the T3 because you didn't wait 4 hours to test.

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by kkc1234

I know of at least three doctors who are "T3 giving" as you say. If you need the info. for your friends, just let me know. What do you mean by my "split dose of Cytomel"?? Is it seriously concerning to have a T3 that high?? I know the doc is going to give me a hard time about it and I would like to have the confidence to defend myself. LOL

Yes, I'll certainly take the names and particulars of the three doctors who give natural T3 (Armour, naturethroid, ERFA Canada Rx. or compounded) in amounts OVER 3 grains AND if they go by FT's and NOT TSH.

I know over 200 thyroid patients in western PA who CANNOT get over 20mcg. Cytomel, who cannot get a RX. for natural porcine thyroid (at all) and whose doctors go by TSH only and don't know that T3 must be 'split' because it only lasts about five hours or so.

Pam

[kkc1234]

Can I post the name, address and phone # of the docs here or do I have to email them to you? I know some boards limit what kinds of info. you can post. Sorry to ask, but I'm new here and don't know the rules. :-)

[nonstickpam107]

You can post here, but make SURE the doctor does the above (doesn't just do TSH, doesn't JUST give T4 synthetic) as that would be a 'wasted' trip for people who want/need T3.

It would be good to have PA doc's names who give sufficient T3 and don't just rely on TSH.

Pam

[kkc1234]

The following drs. definitely will prescribe T3 and do more than just the TSH.

North Hills Natural Medicine
David M. Goldstein
2500 Brooktree Rd., Ste. 300
Wexford, PA 15090
NHnaturalmedicine.com
#724-934-7780

I am Center of Pittsburgh
Valerie P. Donaldson, M.D.
3447 Harts Run Road
Gibsonia, PA 15116
I AM Center of Pittsburgh
#412-767-9890

Advanced Integrative Medicine Center, Inc.
Roy Kerry, M.D. OR 17 Sixth Ave.
160 E. Portersville Rd. Greenville, PA 16125
Portersville, PA 16051
AIM Home Page
#724-588-2600

[Lisa46]

Originally Posted by kkc1234

The following drs. definitely will prescribe T3 and do more than just the TSH.

North Hills Natural Medicine
David M. Goldstein
2500 Brooktree Rd., Ste. 300
Wexford, PA 15090
NHnaturalmedicine.com
#724-934-7780

I am Center of Pittsburgh
Valerie P. Donaldson, M.D.
3447 Harts Run Road
Gibsonia, PA 15116
I AM Center of Pittsburgh
#412-767-9890

Advanced Integrative Medicine Center, Inc.
Roy Kerry, M.D. OR 17 Sixth Ave.
160 E. Portersville Rd. Greenville, PA 16125
Portersville, PA 16051
AIM Home Page
#724-588-2600

KKC, it's information like this that makes me so happy. There IS hope out there!

[nonstickpam107]

I'm familiar with Goldstein (two good friends of mine have seen him). I was not familiar with Donaldson, looked at the website and nowhere does it list thyroid?, and 'have heard' of Kerry (another close friend had seen him and moved on). Thank you for your personal recommendations.

Pam