Am I beyond all help?

leilax · 10-29-2009, 05:05 PM

What do you make of these labs? I am at my wits end, having spent over 2500 on my dr, no results, actually quite worse..

TPO <10 (range <35)
T4, Free .9 (.8-1.8)
TSH 1.96 (.40-4.50)
T3, Free 240 (230-420)

Iron and TIBC 182 (ref range 40-175)
Iron Binding capacity 288 (250-450)
% saturation 63 (15-50)
ferritin 13
Rhem. factor:
8.9 with a ref range of 0.0-13.9.

ACTH stim test:
Cortisol Basal 11.1
Cortisol Reference Range: AM = 3.4-26.9, PM = 0.9-15.8
Cortisol 30 min 24.6
Cortisol 60 min 25.3

24hr cortisol saliva:
A: 3.9 (ref range 3.7-9.5)
B: 2.5 (1.2-3.0)
C: 1.5 (.6-1.9)
D: .9 (.4-1.0)

After these labs, the dr gave me a bunch of vitamins (B complex, iodoral (made me go nuts, jittery, could not think), zinc, vitamin d, corvalen)

estradiol 1.1 (ref range 1.3-3.3)
Progesterone 67 (75-270)
Ratio pg/E2 61 (Optimal 100-500 wen E2 1.3-3.3)
Test, 12 (16-55)
dhea 4.9 (2-23)

bhrt was perscribed and my life went from bad to sheer hell on earth, suicide attempts, driving 800 miles in the middle of the night a few states over, psychosis, paranoia, the list goes on. here is what he gave me for bhrt:
Test: .6 strength, 1 mL in the AM. Cream. 6 days out of 7 per week.
Estrogen: Biest, cream. the tube says ".1(1:1) MG/ML" I was to use 1mL in the AM 6 days out of 7.
Dhea: bhrt, 5 mg every day in the AM pill
Progesterone: pill form, 100 mg each. Directions: 1 hr before bed take 1 pill on days 5-11 of cycle; 1 hr before bed take 2 pills days 12-26 of cycle.

After my reactions which I had within the first week, he took me off dhea and estrogen and kept me on the test and progesterone and my symptoms were just as bad. Still could not sleep, throwing things, extreme self-hatred, depression, weight gain. I am on nothing now, trying to recover..

thank you.

inatic · 10-29-2009, 06:19 PM

did he do any thyroid treatment? Your levels are low!

leilax · 10-29-2009, 07:32 PM

No, he did not in fact he said my thyroid levels look "very good". My mom was right there (she has hashi's) and told him I look and act exactly like her before her dx. I gained like 32 lbs on the bhrt, now I am still up 8lbs despite eating less and more exercise. Why does no one think I have a thyroid problem? I am starting to think there is NO hope for me and I am slowly falling apart, white blood cell count is getting lower, more and more symptoms are developing as time continues.

nonstickpam107 · 10-29-2009, 09:19 PM

Your thyroid levels look like sh....um...really low. Where are you? (State, nearest large cities....nearest State lines and large cities near line).

pam

2bflawless · 10-30-2009, 12:05 AM

<<hugs>> Leilax! Time for a new doctor! Hang in there I know this can be a complete nightmare. But there is help hopefully once you tell us where you are someone can chime in with a good doctor who will help you! By the way, you said your mom has Hashi's who is treating her?

leilax · 10-30-2009, 05:19 AM

thank you all for replying. I am in columbus, ohio and I am currently seeing a bodylogic dr. Everyone I know had fabulous results and I have spent thousands of dollars on this dr to no avail. At 24, I may have to file bankrupcy, since this has started years ago I have spent well over $19,000 cash (I have no insurance), had to drop out of law school, lost my house in detroit, lost everything. This was my last hope. I have seen doctors in both MI and DC as well, md, do, naturopaths. Consequently, I am going to cleveland clinic yet again to see a hematologist as they were very concerned about my high tibc, saturation, and low ferritin. They could not believe the bodylogic dr did not say anything about my levels. My entire labwork from the bodylogic dr had either an L or an H next to it.
My mom has basically taken the same dose of synthroid since she was dx with hashi's 25 years ago, never had her ft3 tested once, just tsh and ft4. unfortunately, after my experience with this dr and all the money we wasted, she thinks these doctors are all charlatans and will not seek further help. He told us I have good ft3 levels and did not feel they warranted cytomel. He did call in cortef for me, but his dosage is very weird, never seen anything like it, I am very confused to say the least. thank you for reading this.

nonstickpam107 · 10-30-2009, 06:47 AM

We've had a couple of success stories out of the Bodylogic group there, but not necessarily with THAT doctor...is that doctor the only one there or are there others? And it's up to YOU to go back there, tell this doc you are not being helped and feel you are being HURT by the expensive treatments (I'd ask for MY money back pronto, BTW...JMHO) and that you want your thyroid treated NOW NOW NOW.

Listen up all you prospective patients, when a doctor starts talking supplements, compounds, etc. and it's not working, it's time to tell the doc that you aren't going that route and that you KNOW it's your thyroid, and that you aren't spending another DIME until they get what you need.

Pam

leilax · 10-30-2009, 07:18 AM

I heard of bodylogic from someone on another low carb foum and they had great success with this dr. It must just be me.

Allegedly, the dr is supposed to call me on Monday, what should I say in order to get my point across? I left a message with his office about my concerns and the woman's reply was well, everyone gains wt when they start bhrt. then she told me "there is no way the hormones had that much of an effect on you after such a brief time, it would take 4-6 weeks to have any result" so my dad called them back bc I was crying (can't deal very well) and gave them a piece of his mind about the lack of results but a decrease in $$. I am normally assertive but just feeling like a failure. I was not just a little depressed or irritable, I went INSANE b/c of the treatment provided. I am thinking of retesting my thyroid panel, including reverse t3, it was high before. If all else fails, I may have to self-treat as I cannot continue in this manner.

nonstickpam107 · 10-30-2009, 08:15 AM

Well, you can't self treat for thyroid. Hormones for thyroid are Rx. only. There are some docs that won't treat thyroid unless another doctor has dx'd the disease FIRST. But this is crap treatment, and I would FIRST write down each supp you took, when, the date, and your response...and then deliver that in a letter and for each time you reacted (badly) I would write what it cost and that I wanted MY MONEY BACK. Keep copies.

You really need to have a thyroid doc who's also good on adrenals see you, it's just that there's really no one in your area. I know of a couple of patients who are travelling to see a doctor..but I'd first tell (and write it) this Bodylogic group how UNsatisfied you are...and that you want your money back or you're gonna start telling EVERYONE how dissatisfied you are. Don't hesitate to contact your state medical board at this time.

Pam

DebM · 10-30-2009, 12:11 PM

Leilax -

Is it possible that the doctor is going to work on your adrenals first? I go to the same place as you. They started me out on progesterone only and then at my bloodwork about a month after starting the progesterone, he put me on armour. I began going to him in Feb. 09. At my last appt in Sept. 09 he lowered my armour from 1/2 grain to 1/4 grain and added bioest. Said he wanted to work on my morning cortisol which was very high. After 2 weeks on 1/4 grain only, I called and told him that I had gained 3 lbs since that change and had no energy. He told me to go back up to the 1/2 grain. I was converting from
T4 to T3 better than you but your levels are not good..... but possibly that's what he's doing - do you think Pam??

One thing I know from going to Body Logic - you have to ask them questions, ask them why and let them know exactly what you are feeling. Sometimes it's hard to get a call back as soon as you'd like but he will call you back. Call Michelle and tell her what's going on.....she'll get the msg to the dr.

DebM

leilax · 10-30-2009, 12:39 PM

Pam, I appreciate your advice so much. I wish more patients were like you or someone had given me this advice years ago. I just didn't know. I have kept records of everything and my reactions. They would not refund me for anything last I asked.

Deb, do you see the same dr as me? I don't think he was going to work on my adrenals first at all, because at the first appt he said they looked great and thought my acth stim test was fine and that my acth level of 5 (range 5-27) was fine. rather, he gave me an rx for all 4 sex hormones. He gave me an rx for cortef after I brought it up. Additionally, I have ordered labs on my own and redid the labs from last time. Like my liver enzymes were elevated by 20 pts he said nothing, my wbc at the time was 2.5 nothing was noted about that, etc. boy, I thought I was bad a few months ago but now I am in pure hell and wish I had never started this. Hair is totally falling out. I am sure he would love to help, especially bc he gets more $$$ if I continue. I am totally jaded bc of this and have lost whatever shred of faith I had before. Michelle and the dr both said they've never heard of my reactions before (feeling hyper from iodoral, for example). We'll see, I am trying to compose myself bc he is to call me next week.

so for real, my levels are bad? I am beginning to think it is all in my head. Do you think I should redo my thyroid labs? I am curious what they are because I feel so terribly.

DebM · 10-30-2009, 12:50 PM

I see Dr. Roger Garcia.

As Pam and others would say your T3, T4 are in the range. But that doesn't mean that you are optimized. They say that free T4 should be at least half way in the range and if free T4 is converting to free T3, free T3 should be 3/4 of the range. You are neither of those. My former endos said I was "hyper" because my TSH was so low but my T4 and T3 were too low and wouldn't treat me with anything. In fact they gave me methizole and Dr. Garcia said right away to stop that.

I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time with them. I do think they have their hands in alot of things. Dr. Roger runs the urgent care center there and also is at a plastic surgeon's office. The other one is also at the hospital in New Albany I believe so neither one is solely 100% at Body Logic which makes it hard when you need help and answers after appts with them. That's one beef I have with them.......

Are you in your 20's? My problems started with menopause. ...

leilax · 10-30-2009, 01:07 PM

okay we do see the same dr. I am glad you had success though.

I know, they do a lot and travel a lot and he usually gets back with me in about 2 days which is fine. I know people with much worse levels than me and feel fine or at least cope better. My mom had a tsh of 15 and was doing better than me, I must be very weak.

My problems started when I had my period for the first time actually. I would bleed for 40-50 days at a time, very heavy, could not lose weight no matter what. I had to be home schooled because I could not get out of bed, was probably iron deficient amongst other things. lots of allergies, rashes, always sick, had my tonsils/adnoids taken out, then started my period at 11. I was put on birth control at age 12 to manage the periods and gained 20 lbs, very depressed, suicidal (ironically, just like my reaction to bhrt). When I was about 17/18 I lost my period and have not had one since. I am 24. I have actively been seeing endos/naturopaths/GI/etc since I was 18 to solve my issues to no avail. unfortunately, like others, what started off at about a couple symptoms have just been spiraling out of control and taking over my life entirely.

nonstickpam107 · 10-30-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebM

Leilax -

Is it possible that the doctor is going to work on your adrenals first? I go to the same place as you. They started me out on progesterone only and then at my bloodwork about a month after starting the progesterone, he put me on armour. I began going to him in Feb. 09. At my last appt in Sept. 09 he lowered my armour from 1/2 grain to 1/4 grain and added bioest. Said he wanted to work on my morning cortisol which was very high. After 2 weeks on 1/4 grain only, I called and told him that I had gained 3 lbs since that change and had no energy. He told me to go back up to the 1/2 grain. I was converting from
T4 to T3 better than you but your levels are not good..... but possibly that's what he's doing - do you think Pam??

One thing I know from going to Body Logic - you have to ask them questions, ask them why and let them know exactly what you are feeling. Sometimes it's hard to get a call back as soon as you'd like but he will call you back. Call Michelle and tell her what's going on.....she'll get the msg to the dr.

DebM

THAT doesn't make sense either. Morning cortisol is SUPPOSED to be at it's HIGHEST! ???? 1/4 grain wouldn't help you unless you happen to weigh less than 40 to 60 lbs.. ?? That's not right, and it certainly would make me very upset..it's about opposite of everything I've EVER been taught.

Adding Biest would BIND the incoming thyroid, so a doctor would UP the dose, not lower it. Hmmm.....that's just not right.

Pam

DebM · 10-31-2009, 09:24 AM

Pam,

Didn't really want to post my 9/24 results on this thread but I was mixed up - my morning cortisol was Low.....
Saw the dr on Friday, 9/24

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These were my labs:

Free T4 1.1 0.8-1.8
Free T3 352 230-420
TSH .01 .40 - 4.50

MCH - 33.1 27.0 - 33.0

Vitamin D 50 20-100

Estradiol 1.1 0-5-1.7 post menopausal 0.8-12 estrogen replacement (optimal 1.3-3.3)

Prog 384 12-100 Postmeno 200-3000 topical
(optimal 10-30 mg)
Testosterone 19 16-55 (age dependent)
DHEAS 6.1 2-23 (Age dependent)
Cortisol morning 2.0 Low 3.7-9.5
noon 2.0 1.2-3.0
evening 1.3 0.6-1.9
night .4 .4-1.0

I have no clue where or why I was thinking it was high. I know I asked him what it meant to be low and he said that's why I wasn't sleeping good.

After hearing this stuff, am I at the right place? I know I can probably only answer that but i would say I feel better.

The low armour of 1/4 to 1/2 grain is because I'm not so far off and he's not wanting me to go back to hyper/hashi?

Thanks again Pam. At this point, what would your doctor do? I'm also on 25 mg of atenolol and 25 mg of elavil. (along with the 1/2 grain of armour or whatever the hell they have in stock, progesterone, bi-est, testosterone, vit D, adrenal support, .5 dhea, magnesium)

leilax · 10-31-2009, 10:11 AM

Deb, he said the same thing to me about my cortisol and sleeping issues.

Pam, I would I could borrow your brain when the dr calls me monday. that is interesting about the biest binding incoming thyroid, forgot that. anyways, just feel like giving up everyone thinks I am crazy and this is all stress related. i turned my cell phone off dont want more people calling me and telling me to go on anti-depressants. also, he did prescribe me cortef (i asked for it) but with his dosage, I am better off without. i have not taken it yet because i have some more blood work to do.

nonstickpam107 · 10-31-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebM

Pam,

Didn't really want to post my 9/24 results on this thread but I was mixed up - my morning cortisol was Low.....
Saw the dr on Friday, 9/24

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These were my labs:

Free T4 1.1 0.8-1.8
Free T3 352 230-420
TSH .01 .40 - 4.50

MCH - 33.1 27.0 - 33.0

Vitamin D 50 20-100

Estradiol 1.1 0-5-1.7 post menopausal 0.8-12 estrogen replacement (optimal 1.3-3.3)

Prog 384 12-100 Postmeno 200-3000 topical
(optimal 10-30 mg)
Testosterone 19 16-55 (age dependent)
DHEAS 6.1 2-23 (Age dependent)
Cortisol morning 2.0 Low 3.7-9.5
noon 2.0 1.2-3.0
evening 1.3 0.6-1.9
night .4 .4-1.0

I have no clue where or why I was thinking it was high. I know I asked him what it meant to be low and he said that's why I wasn't sleeping good.

After hearing this stuff, am I at the right place? I know I can probably only answer that but i would say I feel better.

The low armour of 1/4 to 1/2 grain is because I'm not so far off and he's not wanting me to go back to hyper/hashi?

Thanks again Pam. At this point, what would your doctor do? I'm also on 25 mg of atenolol and 25 mg of elavil. (along with the 1/2 grain of armour or whatever the hell they have in stock, progesterone, bi-est, testosterone, vit D, adrenal support, .5 dhea, magnesium)

Cortisol should be highest in the morning....lowest in the evening/night. Your adrenals are low and you might do better addressing THOSE. Most docs wouldn't have given you ANY Armour till your adrenals are addressed.

ETA: If my progesterone was THAT high post meno, I'd be wanting to just eat and sleep...way too high for me.

Pam

leilax · 11-02-2009, 02:06 PM

i got a call from the office, he want to see me before he adjusts anything. i think the follow up is like 400 dollars though. im not sure what to do at this point. i am redoing my thyroid panel along with reverse t3, i feel like those hormones made me more hypo, if possible.

nonstickpam107 · 11-02-2009, 02:30 PM

Call him and tell him so far he hasn't helped you and that you feel worse (just tell him what you've said HERE... I've had 'that talk' with doctors and most will either re assess and come to a working relationship between the two of you. But I, personally wouldn't pay another DIME if I didn't think I'd gotten my money's worth at this point.

Pam

2bflawless · 11-02-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Call him and tell him so far he hasn't helped you and that you feel worse (just tell him what you've said HERE... I've had 'that talk' with doctors and most will either re assess and come to a working relationship between the two of you. But I, personally wouldn't pay another DIME if I didn't think I'd gotten my money's worth at this point.

Pam

Listen to Pam!

DebM · 11-04-2009, 08:53 AM

Leilax - how are things going with you.....

leilax · 11-04-2009, 10:56 AM

well, first of all, thanks everyone for responding and giving me advice.
the dr called me and I told him what I said here and what pam said. I was able to keep my cool and did not cry/be meek. i said i do not think I was adequately treated and the hormones messed me up, all they did was leave me fat and poor (er). he told me to take cortef for my adrenals. i also told him i wanted a refund from my supplements and if i see him in the future i will not take or buy any vitamins unless i know i have a real need for them, like the iodoral or anything. i said that i want my adrenals and low ferritin addressed before anything (i tested the ferritin on my own). i also said did you even look at my stim test from the cleveland clinic, it it sub-optimal and i did not pay money to remain sub-optimal, my acth was 5 (range 5-26) as well. when he asked about my diet, i said are you for real, i have done everything possible and i still feel like crap and i am not taking your fish oil either because for some reason every time i take it my platelets drop even more, so im done with ALL supps for the time being. he seemed convinced it would cure me of my depression and it totally did not, it cured me of having an extra 45 bucks in my bank account (told him that too). i think he was shocked but he said he would treat me in the way i want (work on the adrenals and stuff first). we will see..

debm, has he ever mentioned cortef for your adrenals? your morning cortisol is lower than mine.

DebM · 11-04-2009, 11:40 AM

Leilax - no mention at all of that cortef. He does have me on adrenal support - 2 tabs a day and I think the DHEA .5 mg a day. I'm also on progesterone cream, bioest cream and testosterone cream.

At night we normally keep a light downstairs and can see it shining in the hallway. I now shut that light off just to see if it helps with the room/house being darker.....

You are too young to be having such problems and I feel bad for you. At least I can say that menopause and the sudden death of my mom (along with major stress with a daughter) contributes to my problems.

I've been with Body Logic since late February and we're still teaking things. I'm only up to 1/2 grain of armour but I don't think my actual bloodwork has been off to much. I've gained 10+lbs in the past 2-3 years. Could say that menopause if a part of it but on my small frame that is obvious, I can't wear alot of the clothes in my closet and can't afford to replace them with bigger sizes, nor do I want to!!!

10-29-2009, 05:05 PM	#1
leilax Junior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Gallery: leilax WOE: Low Carb/Organic/Gluten Free	Am I beyond all help? What do you make of these labs? I am at my wits end, having spent over 2500 on my dr, no results, actually quite worse.. TPO <10 (range <35) T4, Free .9 (.8-1.8) TSH 1.96 (.40-4.50) T3, Free 240 (230-420) Iron and TIBC 182 (ref range 40-175) Iron Binding capacity 288 (250-450) % saturation 63 (15-50) ferritin 13 Rhem. factor: 8.9 with a ref range of 0.0-13.9. ACTH stim test: Cortisol Basal 11.1 Cortisol Reference Range: AM = 3.4-26.9, PM = 0.9-15.8 Cortisol 30 min 24.6 Cortisol 60 min 25.3 24hr cortisol saliva: A: 3.9 (ref range 3.7-9.5) B: 2.5 (1.2-3.0) C: 1.5 (.6-1.9) D: .9 (.4-1.0) After these labs, the dr gave me a bunch of vitamins (B complex, iodoral (made me go nuts, jittery, could not think), zinc, vitamin d, corvalen) estradiol 1.1 (ref range 1.3-3.3) Progesterone 67 (75-270) Ratio pg/E2 61 (Optimal 100-500 wen E2 1.3-3.3) Test, 12 (16-55) dhea 4.9 (2-23) bhrt was perscribed and my life went from bad to sheer hell on earth, suicide attempts, driving 800 miles in the middle of the night a few states over, psychosis, paranoia, the list goes on. here is what he gave me for bhrt: Test: .6 strength, 1 mL in the AM. Cream. 6 days out of 7 per week. Estrogen: Biest, cream. the tube says ".1(1:1) MG/ML" I was to use 1mL in the AM 6 days out of 7. Dhea: bhrt, 5 mg every day in the AM pill Progesterone: pill form, 100 mg each. Directions: 1 hr before bed take 1 pill on days 5-11 of cycle; 1 hr before bed take 2 pills days 12-26 of cycle. After my reactions which I had within the first week, he took me off dhea and estrogen and kept me on the test and progesterone and my symptoms were just as bad. Still could not sleep, throwing things, extreme self-hatred, depression, weight gain. I am on nothing now, trying to recover.. thank you.

10-29-2009, 06:19 PM	#2
inatic Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alpharetta,Ga. Posts: 13,802 Gallery: inatic Stats: 182/135 5'4 47!yo 16/4 5 kidlets later! WOE: Coach Supervised Start Date: LowER C since 2/02 wt training 10/15/02	did he do any thyroid treatment? Your levels are low! Last edited by inatic; 10-29-2009 at 06:20 PM..

10-30-2009, 06:47 AM	#7
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 13,937 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	We've had a couple of success stories out of the Bodylogic group there, but not necessarily with THAT doctor...is that doctor the only one there or are there others? And it's up to YOU to go back there, tell this doc you are not being helped and feel you are being HURT by the expensive treatments (I'd ask for MY money back pronto, BTW...JMHO) and that you want your thyroid treated NOW NOW NOW. Listen up all you prospective patients, when a doctor starts talking supplements, compounds, etc. and it's not working, it's time to tell the doc that you aren't going that route and that you KNOW it's your thyroid, and that you aren't spending another DIME until they get what you need. Pam __________________ So many fireworks. So little time. "You can't get a patent on a pig part"

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10-29-2009, 07:32 PM	#3
leilax Junior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Gallery: leilax WOE: Low Carb/Organic/Gluten Free	No, he did not in fact he said my thyroid levels look "very good". My mom was right there (she has hashi's) and told him I look and act exactly like her before her dx. I gained like 32 lbs on the bhrt, now I am still up 8lbs despite eating less and more exercise. Why does no one think I have a thyroid problem? I am starting to think there is NO hope for me and I am slowly falling apart, white blood cell count is getting lower, more and more symptoms are developing as time continues.

10-29-2009, 09:19 PM	#4
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 13,937 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Your thyroid levels look like sh....um...really low. Where are you? (State, nearest large cities....nearest State lines and large cities near line). pam

10-30-2009, 12:05 AM	#5
2bflawless Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA Posts: 242 Gallery: 2bflawless WOE: Atkins Start Date: August 2007	<<hugs>> Leilax! Time for a new doctor! Hang in there I know this can be a complete nightmare. But there is help hopefully once you tell us where you are someone can chime in with a good doctor who will help you! By the way, you said your mom has Hashi's who is treating her?

10-30-2009, 05:19 AM	#6
leilax Junior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Gallery: leilax WOE: Low Carb/Organic/Gluten Free	thank you all for replying. I am in columbus, ohio and I am currently seeing a bodylogic dr. Everyone I know had fabulous results and I have spent thousands of dollars on this dr to no avail. At 24, I may have to file bankrupcy, since this has started years ago I have spent well over $19,000 cash (I have no insurance), had to drop out of law school, lost my house in detroit, lost everything. This was my last hope. I have seen doctors in both MI and DC as well, md, do, naturopaths. Consequently, I am going to cleveland clinic yet again to see a hematologist as they were very concerned about my high tibc, saturation, and low ferritin. They could not believe the bodylogic dr did not say anything about my levels. My entire labwork from the bodylogic dr had either an L or an H next to it. My mom has basically taken the same dose of synthroid since she was dx with hashi's 25 years ago, never had her ft3 tested once, just tsh and ft4. unfortunately, after my experience with this dr and all the money we wasted, she thinks these doctors are all charlatans and will not seek further help. He told us I have good ft3 levels and did not feel they warranted cytomel. He did call in cortef for me, but his dosage is very weird, never seen anything like it, I am very confused to say the least. thank you for reading this.

10-30-2009, 07:18 AM	#8
leilax Junior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Gallery: leilax WOE: Low Carb/Organic/Gluten Free	I heard of bodylogic from someone on another low carb foum and they had great success with this dr. It must just be me. Allegedly, the dr is supposed to call me on Monday, what should I say in order to get my point across? I left a message with his office about my concerns and the woman's reply was well, everyone gains wt when they start bhrt. then she told me "there is no way the hormones had that much of an effect on you after such a brief time, it would take 4-6 weeks to have any result" so my dad called them back bc I was crying (can't deal very well) and gave them a piece of his mind about the lack of results but a decrease in $$. I am normally assertive but just feeling like a failure. I was not just a little depressed or irritable, I went INSANE b/c of the treatment provided. I am thinking of retesting my thyroid panel, including reverse t3, it was high before. If all else fails, I may have to self-treat as I cannot continue in this manner.

10-30-2009, 08:15 AM	#9
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 13,937 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Well, you can't self treat for thyroid. Hormones for thyroid are Rx. only. There are some docs that won't treat thyroid unless another doctor has dx'd the disease FIRST. But this is crap treatment, and I would FIRST write down each supp you took, when, the date, and your response...and then deliver that in a letter and for each time you reacted (badly) I would write what it cost and that I wanted MY MONEY BACK. Keep copies. You really need to have a thyroid doc who's also good on adrenals see you, it's just that there's really no one in your area. I know of a couple of patients who are travelling to see a doctor..but I'd first tell (and write it) this Bodylogic group how UNsatisfied you are...and that you want your money back or you're gonna start telling EVERYONE how dissatisfied you are. Don't hesitate to contact your state medical board at this time. Pam

10-30-2009, 12:11 PM	#10
DebM Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 158 Gallery: DebM	Leilax - Is it possible that the doctor is going to work on your adrenals first? I go to the same place as you. They started me out on progesterone only and then at my bloodwork about a month after starting the progesterone, he put me on armour. I began going to him in Feb. 09. At my last appt in Sept. 09 he lowered my armour from 1/2 grain to 1/4 grain and added bioest. Said he wanted to work on my morning cortisol which was very high. After 2 weeks on 1/4 grain only, I called and told him that I had gained 3 lbs since that change and had no energy. He told me to go back up to the 1/2 grain. I was converting from T4 to T3 better than you but your levels are not good..... but possibly that's what he's doing - do you think Pam?? One thing I know from going to Body Logic - you have to ask them questions, ask them why and let them know exactly what you are feeling. Sometimes it's hard to get a call back as soon as you'd like but he will call you back. Call Michelle and tell her what's going on.....she'll get the msg to the dr. DebM

10-30-2009, 12:39 PM	#11
leilax Junior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Gallery: leilax WOE: Low Carb/Organic/Gluten Free	Pam, I appreciate your advice so much. I wish more patients were like you or someone had given me this advice years ago. I just didn't know. I have kept records of everything and my reactions. They would not refund me for anything last I asked. Deb, do you see the same dr as me? I don't think he was going to work on my adrenals first at all, because at the first appt he said they looked great and thought my acth stim test was fine and that my acth level of 5 (range 5-27) was fine. rather, he gave me an rx for all 4 sex hormones. He gave me an rx for cortef after I brought it up. Additionally, I have ordered labs on my own and redid the labs from last time. Like my liver enzymes were elevated by 20 pts he said nothing, my wbc at the time was 2.5 nothing was noted about that, etc. boy, I thought I was bad a few months ago but now I am in pure hell and wish I had never started this. Hair is totally falling out. I am sure he would love to help, especially bc he gets more $$$ if I continue. I am totally jaded bc of this and have lost whatever shred of faith I had before. Michelle and the dr both said they've never heard of my reactions before (feeling hyper from iodoral, for example). We'll see, I am trying to compose myself bc he is to call me next week. so for real, my levels are bad? I am beginning to think it is all in my head. Do you think I should redo my thyroid labs? I am curious what they are because I feel so terribly.

10-30-2009, 12:50 PM	#12
DebM Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 158 Gallery: DebM	I see Dr. Roger Garcia. As Pam and others would say your T3, T4 are in the range. But that doesn't mean that you are optimized. They say that free T4 should be at least half way in the range and if free T4 is converting to free T3, free T3 should be 3/4 of the range. You are neither of those. My former endos said I was "hyper" because my TSH was so low but my T4 and T3 were too low and wouldn't treat me with anything. In fact they gave me methizole and Dr. Garcia said right away to stop that. I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time with them. I do think they have their hands in alot of things. Dr. Roger runs the urgent care center there and also is at a plastic surgeon's office. The other one is also at the hospital in New Albany I believe so neither one is solely 100% at Body Logic which makes it hard when you need help and answers after appts with them. That's one beef I have with them....... Are you in your 20's? My problems started with menopause. ...

10-30-2009, 01:07 PM	#13
leilax Junior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Gallery: leilax WOE: Low Carb/Organic/Gluten Free	okay we do see the same dr. I am glad you had success though. I know, they do a lot and travel a lot and he usually gets back with me in about 2 days which is fine. I know people with much worse levels than me and feel fine or at least cope better. My mom had a tsh of 15 and was doing better than me, I must be very weak. My problems started when I had my period for the first time actually. I would bleed for 40-50 days at a time, very heavy, could not lose weight no matter what. I had to be home schooled because I could not get out of bed, was probably iron deficient amongst other things. lots of allergies, rashes, always sick, had my tonsils/adnoids taken out, then started my period at 11. I was put on birth control at age 12 to manage the periods and gained 20 lbs, very depressed, suicidal (ironically, just like my reaction to bhrt). When I was about 17/18 I lost my period and have not had one since. I am 24. I have actively been seeing endos/naturopaths/GI/etc since I was 18 to solve my issues to no avail. unfortunately, like others, what started off at about a couple symptoms have just been spiraling out of control and taking over my life entirely.

10-31-2009, 09:24 AM	#15
DebM Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 158 Gallery: DebM	Pam, Didn't really want to post my 9/24 results on this thread but I was mixed up - my morning cortisol was Low..... Saw the dr on Friday, 9/24 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These were my labs: Free T4 1.1 0.8-1.8 Free T3 352 230-420 TSH .01 .40 - 4.50 MCH - 33.1 27.0 - 33.0 Vitamin D 50 20-100 Estradiol 1.1 0-5-1.7 post menopausal 0.8-12 estrogen replacement (optimal 1.3-3.3) Prog 384 12-100 Postmeno 200-3000 topical (optimal 10-30 mg) Testosterone 19 16-55 (age dependent) DHEAS 6.1 2-23 (Age dependent) Cortisol morning 2.0 Low 3.7-9.5 noon 2.0 1.2-3.0 evening 1.3 0.6-1.9 night .4 .4-1.0 I have no clue where or why I was thinking it was high. I know I asked him what it meant to be low and he said that's why I wasn't sleeping good. After hearing this stuff, am I at the right place? I know I can probably only answer that but i would say I feel better. The low armour of 1/4 to 1/2 grain is because I'm not so far off and he's not wanting me to go back to hyper/hashi? Thanks again Pam. At this point, what would your doctor do? I'm also on 25 mg of atenolol and 25 mg of elavil. (along with the 1/2 grain of armour or whatever the hell they have in stock, progesterone, bi-est, testosterone, vit D, adrenal support, .5 dhea, magnesium)

10-31-2009, 10:11 AM	#16
leilax Junior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Gallery: leilax WOE: Low Carb/Organic/Gluten Free	Deb, he said the same thing to me about my cortisol and sleeping issues. Pam, I would I could borrow your brain when the dr calls me monday. that is interesting about the biest binding incoming thyroid, forgot that. anyways, just feel like giving up everyone thinks I am crazy and this is all stress related. i turned my cell phone off dont want more people calling me and telling me to go on anti-depressants. also, he did prescribe me cortef (i asked for it) but with his dosage, I am better off without. i have not taken it yet because i have some more blood work to do.

11-02-2009, 02:06 PM	#18
leilax Junior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Gallery: leilax WOE: Low Carb/Organic/Gluten Free	i got a call from the office, he want to see me before he adjusts anything. i think the follow up is like 400 dollars though. im not sure what to do at this point. i am redoing my thyroid panel along with reverse t3, i feel like those hormones made me more hypo, if possible.

11-02-2009, 02:30 PM	#19
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 13,937 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Call him and tell him so far he hasn't helped you and that you feel worse (just tell him what you've said HERE... I've had 'that talk' with doctors and most will either re assess and come to a working relationship between the two of you. But I, personally wouldn't pay another DIME if I didn't think I'd gotten my money's worth at this point. Pam

11-04-2009, 08:53 AM	#21
DebM Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 158 Gallery: DebM	Leilax - how are things going with you.....

11-04-2009, 10:56 AM	#22
leilax Junior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 29 Gallery: leilax WOE: Low Carb/Organic/Gluten Free	well, first of all, thanks everyone for responding and giving me advice. the dr called me and I told him what I said here and what pam said. I was able to keep my cool and did not cry/be meek. i said i do not think I was adequately treated and the hormones messed me up, all they did was leave me fat and poor (er). he told me to take cortef for my adrenals. i also told him i wanted a refund from my supplements and if i see him in the future i will not take or buy any vitamins unless i know i have a real need for them, like the iodoral or anything. i said that i want my adrenals and low ferritin addressed before anything (i tested the ferritin on my own). i also said did you even look at my stim test from the cleveland clinic, it it sub-optimal and i did not pay money to remain sub-optimal, my acth was 5 (range 5-26) as well. when he asked about my diet, i said are you for real, i have done everything possible and i still feel like crap and i am not taking your fish oil either because for some reason every time i take it my platelets drop even more, so im done with ALL supps for the time being. he seemed convinced it would cure me of my depression and it totally did not, it cured me of having an extra 45 bucks in my bank account (told him that too). i think he was shocked but he said he would treat me in the way i want (work on the adrenals and stuff first). we will see.. debm, has he ever mentioned cortef for your adrenals? your morning cortisol is lower than mine.

11-04-2009, 11:40 AM	#23
DebM Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 158 Gallery: DebM	Leilax - no mention at all of that cortef. He does have me on adrenal support - 2 tabs a day and I think the DHEA .5 mg a day. I'm also on progesterone cream, bioest cream and testosterone cream. At night we normally keep a light downstairs and can see it shining in the hallway. I now shut that light off just to see if it helps with the room/house being darker..... You are too young to be having such problems and I feel bad for you. At least I can say that menopause and the sudden death of my mom (along with major stress with a daughter) contributes to my problems. I've been with Body Logic since late February and we're still teaking things. I'm only up to 1/2 grain of armour but I don't think my actual bloodwork has been off to much. I've gained 10+lbs in the past 2-3 years. Could say that menopause if a part of it but on my small frame that is obvious, I can't wear alot of the clothes in my closet and can't afford to replace them with bigger sizes, nor do I want to!!!