Need Advice

[snelson]

Hello: I am new to this discussion thread and very excited to discuss my similar experience to many of the thyroid patients in this forum.

I have had Hashimoto's hypothyroidism since the age of 12 years old. I am now 34 years. Since I can remember, I have always been low energy, prone to depression and anxiety...essentially, I am tired as soon as I wake up!

After giving birth 2 years ago, I went through an extremely difficult time with low energy levels (which is easily attributed to postpartum issues). I gained 25 pounds AFTER giving birth.

I have been to the doctor and all my thyroid ranges are optimal. I take just T4 (levothyroxine - 175 mcg). In the last year, I have switched to a gluten free, anti-inflammatory diet. I am also started taking Moducare (Sterol/Sterolins) to bring down my anti-body levels which tested at 260 (range 0-60).

I would like to switch to a T3 component along with T4. But after a little research, I am a bit confused.

-Can Hashimoto patients take Armour? I have read that it causes the body to further the auto-immune response and raises the antibody levels.

-Should Hashimoto patients stick with the synthetic versions of t3/t4 or just T4?

When I meet with my doctor next week, I would also like to address whether I need to be on some sort of adrenal support (Cortet).

My main issue, along with the fatigue, is that I am not losing weight after 6 months of trying. I have kept a daily food log and now am running over 20 miles a week. The scales have not budged a bit. I am wondering if I switch over to T3 if this will make a difference with my symptoms and make it a bit easier to lose some weight.

If any of you have any advice, I would be most appreciative.

[watcher513]

Hi and welcome. As most here will say, what are/were your lab results, With the ranges. Were Free T4 and FT3 done? If not, why not? I have Hashi's also as many of us do. Yes, you can take T3 meds, if warranted by the labs. I fought to get T3 meds, finally! I feel so much better since then (June of this year). My Hashi's results were 445 (suppose to be under 35 per the lab used). I was diagnosed hypo in the late 90's but I really believe it's been years longer than that, possibly most of my life and I was 60 this year.

Were the results that were optimal that way because the doctor said so? We're a little cynical about docs saying "oh, you're fine" when you're anywhere within range as I'm sure you'll notice. Actually, a lot cynical. Possibly because they probably don't have a thyroid condition so don't really Know what it feels like to feel really bad when we're not medicated properly.

[Leo41]

Hi-

I have Hashi's too, and although I was fine on just T4 (Levoxyl) for several years, my T3 tanked completely, and I needed to add Cytomel (T3) a couple of years ago.

When my T3 was off-the-charts low, I had incredible fatigue and weight gain (despite a WOE that had been resulting in loss). If you're tired and can't lose weight, I'd suspect a low T3.

As the previous poster noted, a lot of docs will say you're OK if you're anywhere in range, but my T3 needs to be in the top quarter of the range in order for me to feel 'normal.'

You should definitely get that checked and make sure to get copies of all your labwork. Do not rely on the doc to just "tell" you the result.

[inatic]

welcome~

many of us with hashi's are on amour or desicated natural combinations of T3/T4.

Hopefully you found the right dr who is going to run the right tests.. get copies of your labs.. if that doesnt work out, we have lists and groups that point you in the right direction.

what area/state do you live in?

[nonstickpam107]

Well, considering that ONE out of every 17,000 actually have antibodies attack Armour..maybe your doctor is betting you'll be the 'one'?? Jeez.

And Moducare doesn't really help antibodies...the Hashimoto's antibodies attack and destroy the thyroid and then then don't do anything anymore. Cuz the thyroid is 'done' (as in 'toast'). Armour, Westhroid, Naturethroid are all about the 'same' give or take a mcg. they are all natural thyroid (from pig). So, if you can't get Armour, you can get the others (Rx. only though). OR you can find a doc that 'gets it'. We have lists for most anywhere.

Pam

[snelson]

Thanks for all the wonderful information. Here are my recent lab results:

TSH: .905 (range .3-4.0)
Free T3: 3.4 (2.3-4.2)
Free T4: 1.16 (.84-1.51)
TPO Ab: 325.4 (0-60.0)
Thyroglobulin Ab: <45 "normal range" (0-60.0)

I am now just taking 175 mcg Levothyroxine (reduced from 225 mcg while I was pregnant). I went to both my PCP and a Naturopath, which both stated that my thyroid labs look fine and there must be a different reason why i am so tired all the time. I live in Portland, Oregon.

[nonstickpam107]

Dr. Susan Allen, Naturopathic Doctor, 2601 N.E. Glisan, Portland, Oregon 97232, Portland, Oregon, 97232, 503-232-1948 , www.hawthorneholistic.com

Pamela Pavilonis ND, Naturopathic Doctor, 21860 Willamette Dr, West Linn, OR, 97068, Phone/Fax: 503 650 2394, papavilonis@earthlink.net


Martin Milner, N.D. drmilner@hotmail.com Center for Natural Medicine President & Medical Director, Center for Natural Medicine Professor, Cardiovascular & Pulmonary Medicine, NCNM, Bastyr University & SW College of Naturopathic Medicine Medical Editor, Health Sciences Institute Publications Center for Natural Medicine, Inc. (CNM) 1330 SE 39th. Ave., Portland, Oregon 97214 PHONE 503-232-1100 FAX 503-232-7751

(Dr. Milner specializes in compound hormones...might do compounded Armour)


Rick Marinelli, ND Naturopathic Physician/Acupuncturist 1600 SW Cedar Hills Blvd, Portland, OR 97225 (503)644-4446
(Marinelli will give synthetic T3 as well as T4)

Portland is a hard area to find Armour..but from what I'm reading, most docs will give synthetic T3. Have you ASKED your doctor to supplement your T4 with some Cytomel? (Cytomel is synthetic T3).

Pam

[snelson]

Actually, I have spoken to Dr. Milner in the past on a phone consult and he told me that he does not do Armor for thyroid patients. Like you mentioned, he does the compounded bio-identical versions of synthetic T3 and T4. At the time, I knew I couldn't afford to pay out of pocket for a compounded version so I did not opt to go to see him.

I actually have seen Pamela Pavilonis before for a lump in my breast (that went away) but haven't seen her for my thyroid (as my health insurance changed). That is good to know that your recommend her, as I remember she told me she would give me a discount of her office visits.

I have only recently asked my ND (at the Naturapathic College in Portland - the only way I can afford to pay for a ND at this point) to give me Cytomel, but they were pretty insistent that I do not need that & that my fatigue was related to my high anti-body levels which is why they put me on Moducare and nutritional support for my adrenals.

I have an appointment w/ my internist next week to go over everything and hopefully she will be open to putting me on Cytomel. If not, I'll go see Dr. Pavilonis.

Thanks again for all the information.

[nonstickpam107]

Um, no, I haven't recommended anyone. I'm taking my info from other patients...some of whom will say all kinds of nice things about a doc as long as they 'listened' to them. I have a recommendation from four that Dr. P does T4 as well as T3 (synthetic). That's too bad that your area is full of doctors who don't want to give natural thyroid and worship at the altar of TSH. Lots of areas are like that though.

Here's hoping Dr. P will give you Cytomel (and do FT's) if you need it). Best of luck and please let me know so I can update my listings (I certainly don't want to have a TSH worshipping doc nor one that won't Rx. Cytomel when needed on my lists, I'm sure you understand).

Pam

[BigBottomBlogger]

Good that you ditched gluten!

I strongly recommend Vit D.....everyone needs to supplement, esp in the fall and winter. I have been taking 5000-10000 IUs a day and my levels are still just at 42...darn it.... Vit D deficiency can wreak all sorts of havoc on your body.

Be sure new doc checks Reverse T3. You can google it...for more info...but if your levels of Reverse T3 are too high...they pretty much negate your Free T3 reading.

Also, if you are going to a Naturopath or an enlightened MD....be sure they run a cortisol and estrogen/progesterone saliva test. Thyroid is totally interconnected with these....and often all three need some tweaking.

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by BigBottomBlogger

Good that you ditched gluten!

I strongly recommend Vit D.....everyone needs to supplement, esp in the fall and winter. I have been taking 5000-10000 IUs a day and my levels are still just at 42...darn it.... Vit D deficiency can wreak all sorts of havoc on your body.

Be sure new doc checks Reverse T3. You can google it...for more info...but if your levels of Reverse T3 are too high...they pretty much negate your Free T3 reading.

Also, if you are going to a Naturopath or an enlightened MD....be sure they run a cortisol and estrogen/progesterone saliva test. Thyroid is totally interconnected with these....and often all three need some tweaking.

FOUR times in one day salivary for cortisol. And most of us (I'm going by the over 2,000 letters/emails, etc.) don't do well with salivary estradiol/progesterone testing. We either get over replaced or under. Blood testing seems to be better in terms of what replacement we get.

Pam

[BigBottomBlogger]

Good to know about progesterone and estrogen saliva test. My doc is not giving me any hormones right now....I am completely resistant to taking them anyway until I get my other stuff worked out. I tried progesterone cream for a couple months several years back and it make me bonkers...just awful! So, if we get to a point where she wants me back on progesterone...I will insist on bloodwork first.

Yes....4 times a day on the cortisol reading...saliva. The blood test for cortisol is not really meaningful because it does not show the cycle.

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by BigBottomBlogger

Good to know about progesterone and estrogen saliva test. My doc is not giving me any hormones right now....I am completely resistant to taking them anyway until I get my other stuff worked out. I tried progesterone cream for a couple months several years back and it make me bonkers...just awful! So, if we get to a point where she wants me back on progesterone...I will insist on bloodwork first.

Yes....4 times a day on the cortisol reading...saliva. The blood test for cortisol is not really meaningful because it does not show the cycle.

Are you hypothyroid? Hashimoto's? Yes, do insist on bloodwork for prog. I know a lot of very good doctors who are INSISTING that EVERY woman start with 200mg/ML to start...ack!! At least progesterone is something that you can just stop if you have symptoms of over replacing..thank goodness!

And the OTC stuff...that's kind of a disaster for we with Hashimoto's...I wish we could just get what we need when we need it...such a fight with doctors who've been told that "Hashimoto's is rare" (yeah..two out of every ten women...) and 'you don't need progesterone if you've had the uterus removed'. Sigh.

Pam