Peeps on Natural HRT

shell91320 · 06-18-2009, 12:44 PM

Ok, so I just tried natural compounded progesterone prescribed to me by a doctor who specializes in this. I took smaller than the recommended dosage for two days and felt euphoria and "more like my old self." My progesterone on my last blood test was .7, and I have had a lot of symptoms of low progesterone and estrogen dominance, as well as having low thyroid and pcos. On 3rd day took the dose that the doctor prescribed. By day 4, had all the symptoms of being six weeks pregnant, with a huge, painful migraine that took several days to go away after I immediately stopped the cream.

When I've taken wild yam cream from the health food store,I felt a lot of good feelings of just general well being,and had no side effects like the natural progesterone cream. I was just reading a website with patient critiques of natural progesterone, and many on the board said that they immediately had negative side effects like I did. Others had either no or slight side effects first month, and then second and following months had an great increase in major negative side effects.

When I called my doctor, he said that progesterone doesn't have any side effects, and that I was on a very low dose, but that I could decrease the dosage and see what happens.

After taking it for three days, I felt like I was going to die from the worst "first trimester" pains ever. So, those who have been on BHRT continously, do you think it would be worth it to see if a very low dosage might give me results, or should I just stick with my wild yam cream that seemed to give me nice, satisfactory results. I just don't want to find that even with a low dose, by month 2 or three I have the same negative experiences that these other women have had that seem to = what I have beeng feeling after taking a most likely too high dose in three days. They seemed to indicate that it took a long time for it to get out of their system once they stopped, and I've noticed that I'm still having effects many days after just using it for three days. I'm very much leaning towards just my nice health food store wild yam after feeling like death warmed over for the past couple of days.

Thanks,
Shelley

CarolynF · 06-18-2009, 04:03 PM

Shelley: I take 1/2 the dosage of Bioidentical compounded meds that my doctor prescribed for me. It works fine. I think that sometimes the "dosage" is too strong and we have to
back off.. I take a troche..Do you do a "cream"? You could cut it way back and see what happens.

shell91320 · 06-18-2009, 06:58 PM

yup, it's a cream. I may try to cut way back on it in a week or two, but after the sickness, I guess I'm a wimp, but I have chronic illness as it is and am not big on making myself sick. I'm just a little leary right now- but I'll keep everyone posted. I guess I'm just curious as to success stories vs. difficulties with the hormone. It may just not be the right thing for me. Thanks for your input!

nonstickpam107 · 06-19-2009, 08:50 AM

You aren't even giving the strength of the cream (is it 100mg/ML? or stronger?) You only use it at night (yep, ONLY at night) and usually anything over 100mg/ML is too strong for most of us, and certain docs think we should 'slather' it on. Not true. THERE ARE SIDE EFFECTS and yours were classic for too much. LUCKILY, once you back off of it, all the side effect go right away, no harm done. Your 'wild yam' OTC has not 1/100th of the progesterone in it, and you won't get any beneficial effects from that...just defeating the purpose.

I've had compounders use bases (vanishing cream..OMG..horrible!!! why don't they just put it in poop and throw it away??? LOL) that didn't 'work' for me, been given double dose cream (ack!! had the same side effects YOU did..packed on 10 lbs. overnight, looked pg for twins).

So..I also need your latest (in the last two months) FT4, FT3..cuz prog. cream binds incoming thyroid, so while they go up in BHRT, your thyroid has to be adjusted to IT.

Pam

shell91320 · 06-19-2009, 09:57 AM

My last blood test was end of April, so I don't have new T4 T3 numbers. The strength is 100 mg/ml. The dose was 1/2 ml one time at night. 1/2 ml looks really big to me- I don't know how much it is in tsp.

shell91320 · 06-19-2009, 10:01 AM

Pam, what do you think about many comments that I read that people started having symptoms of too much cream after using it for the second, third and following months? I read from people who said they were pretty much fine the first month, but seemed to have problems with prolonged use.

CindyCRNA · 06-19-2009, 12:40 PM

I am on BHRT but am new to it. It is my understanding from reading others posts on this board about OTC yam cream is you did not have any symptoms with it because it doesn't do anything. My personal thought is you need more labs drawn while on your current dose to see where you are. You may be on too much but you need blood work. The great thing about BHRT is the ability to titrate the dose you need by looking at your blood levels.

nonstickpam107 · 06-19-2009, 05:08 PM

I measured my cream of 100mg/ML in a 1/4 teaspoon. And you might be reacting to something IN the base. BUT...we need to remember when we are hypothyroid, that when the doc adds prog. or estradiol, etc. it 'binds' a significant part of the T4 to T3 conversion. And you won't be able to just get T4, T3 anymore! You now need FREE T4 and FREE T3..cuz they show what's unbound by the incoming BHRT and what's 'usable' to you. Totals (T4, T3) only show what's in the blood, not what you get to use. It's pretty useless when on BHRT.

Most docs do a FT4, FT3 BEFORE they give BHRT, and then four to six weeks later. My doc always told me to work with my compounder (yep, go ahead, call your compounder!) and I would either add or omit a little progesterone. But it's binding your conversion of T4 to T3, so the swelling might be from no T3. How much T4 and T3 are you on? Armour? T4 and Cytomel?

Pam

shell91320 · 06-20-2009, 05:22 PM

Thanks for the replies. There may be something in the base as you say Pam, because I've tried 1/8 of a tsp and less for a couple days. I'm getting the same exact symptoms, just much less severe. Headache and nausea is the most pronounced. I have had my Free T4, Free T3 and progesterone taken a couple of months ago. That's what my synthroid and progesterone dosages were based on. Unfortunately, I think I'm giving up on natural progesterone for now. I took the wild yam cream a few months ago, and it seemed to help regulate my periods which have been irregular for the last year. And I felt better overall. Placebo effect or whatever, I felt much better, and that's what I'm looking for. I can't afford to be nauseas and sick messing around with the progesterone. It takes too much out of me. I also still feel hypothyroid even though my lab numbers don't indicate that. I am just burnt out and tired all the time. I am not on Cytomel, so that might be something I need to try because my Free T3 isn't quite where it needs to be according to my new doctor. Unfortunately I only have so much money and patience for experimenting with all this. I just want to feel better so I can have the energy to exercise and lose weight, and have enough strength to take care of my family the way I want to. I guess that's the boat most of us are in. That's why I like coming to this board. Thanks for your help.
Shelley

nonstickpam107 · 06-21-2009, 08:27 AM

Shelley, I'd surely try adding Cytomel and getting your FT3 up where it 'belongs' (actually I'd rather have Armour Thyroid personally, but the synthetics can be closely monitored too.;..you just won't be getting any T1, or T2) before I go messing with the sex hormones. As a matter of fact, my thyroid doc wanted my FT4 at least midway (NOT OVER!!!) and my FT3 all the way 3/4 of range before he started progesterone, estradiol, etc.

Pam

shell91320 · 06-24-2009, 08:43 AM

Yeah, I think that will be my next step. It may help with the hypo symptoms I still have that were fixed with T4 for a while, but not as well anymore. Maybe I'm not converting to T3 as much as I was in the beginning or something, and it isn't where it's supposed to be now anyway.

Gabby55 · 06-24-2009, 10:51 AM

This is was interesting to read. One time I tried the progesterone cream from Walmart. It made me break out in a terrible rash.

Then I ordered some from a place on the net called Myhealthcoop, or something to that effect. My bloodpressure became very high, but no rash.

I am postmenopause and not using estrogen because my mother had breast cancer, so that makes me afraid of it.

So does anyone know what effects you would have with no estrogen and only using progesterone cream?

06-18-2009, 12:44 PM	#1
shell91320 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: UTAH/CA girl Posts: 198 Gallery: shell91320 WOE: Induction/dreaming of OWL Start Date: Nov 2004	Peeps on Natural HRT Ok, so I just tried natural compounded progesterone prescribed to me by a doctor who specializes in this. I took smaller than the recommended dosage for two days and felt euphoria and "more like my old self." My progesterone on my last blood test was .7, and I have had a lot of symptoms of low progesterone and estrogen dominance, as well as having low thyroid and pcos. On 3rd day took the dose that the doctor prescribed. By day 4, had all the symptoms of being six weeks pregnant, with a huge, painful migraine that took several days to go away after I immediately stopped the cream. When I've taken wild yam cream from the health food store,I felt a lot of good feelings of just general well being,and had no side effects like the natural progesterone cream. I was just reading a website with patient critiques of natural progesterone, and many on the board said that they immediately had negative side effects like I did. Others had either no or slight side effects first month, and then second and following months had an great increase in major negative side effects. When I called my doctor, he said that progesterone doesn't have any side effects, and that I was on a very low dose, but that I could decrease the dosage and see what happens. After taking it for three days, I felt like I was going to die from the worst "first trimester" pains ever. So, those who have been on BHRT continously, do you think it would be worth it to see if a very low dosage might give me results, or should I just stick with my wild yam cream that seemed to give me nice, satisfactory results. I just don't want to find that even with a low dose, by month 2 or three I have the same negative experiences that these other women have had that seem to = what I have beeng feeling after taking a most likely too high dose in three days. They seemed to indicate that it took a long time for it to get out of their system once they stopped, and I've noticed that I'm still having effects many days after just using it for three days. I'm very much leaning towards just my nice health food store wild yam after feeling like death warmed over for the past couple of days. Thanks, Shelley __________________ It's kind of fun to do the impossible- Walt Disney

06-18-2009, 06:58 PM	#3
shell91320 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: UTAH/CA girl Posts: 198 Gallery: shell91320 WOE: Induction/dreaming of OWL Start Date: Nov 2004	Cream yup, it's a cream. I may try to cut way back on it in a week or two, but after the sickness, I guess I'm a wimp, but I have chronic illness as it is and am not big on making myself sick. I'm just a little leary right now- but I'll keep everyone posted. I guess I'm just curious as to success stories vs. difficulties with the hormone. It may just not be the right thing for me. Thanks for your input!

06-19-2009, 08:50 AM	#4
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 13,937 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	You aren't even giving the strength of the cream (is it 100mg/ML? or stronger?) You only use it at night (yep, ONLY at night) and usually anything over 100mg/ML is too strong for most of us, and certain docs think we should 'slather' it on. Not true. THERE ARE SIDE EFFECTS and yours were classic for too much. LUCKILY, once you back off of it, all the side effect go right away, no harm done. Your 'wild yam' OTC has not 1/100th of the progesterone in it, and you won't get any beneficial effects from that...just defeating the purpose. I've had compounders use bases (vanishing cream..OMG..horrible!!! why don't they just put it in poop and throw it away??? LOL) that didn't 'work' for me, been given double dose cream (ack!! had the same side effects YOU did..packed on 10 lbs. overnight, looked pg for twins). So..I also need your latest (in the last two months) FT4, FT3..cuz prog. cream binds incoming thyroid, so while they go up in BHRT, your thyroid has to be adjusted to IT. Pam __________________ So many fireworks. So little time. "You can't get a patent on a pig part"

06-24-2009, 08:43 AM	#11
shell91320 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: UTAH/CA girl Posts: 198 Gallery: shell91320 WOE: Induction/dreaming of OWL Start Date: Nov 2004	Yeah, I think that will be my next step. It may help with the hypo symptoms I still have that were fixed with T4 for a while, but not as well anymore. Maybe I'm not converting to T3 as much as I was in the beginning or something, and it isn't where it's supposed to be now anyway. Last edited by shell91320; 06-24-2009 at 08:44 AM.. Reason: errors

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06-18-2009, 04:03 PM	#2
CarolynF Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Kansas Posts: 23,528 Gallery: CarolynF Stats: 195/151/139 WOE: Eat Fat, Get Thin/I Can Make You Thin Start Date: January 2001	Shelley: I take 1/2 the dosage of Bioidentical compounded meds that my doctor prescribed for me. It works fine. I think that sometimes the "dosage" is too strong and we have to back off.. I take a troche..Do you do a "cream"? You could cut it way back and see what happens.

06-19-2009, 09:57 AM	#5
shell91320 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: UTAH/CA girl Posts: 198 Gallery: shell91320 WOE: Induction/dreaming of OWL Start Date: Nov 2004	My last blood test was end of April, so I don't have new T4 T3 numbers. The strength is 100 mg/ml. The dose was 1/2 ml one time at night. 1/2 ml looks really big to me- I don't know how much it is in tsp.

06-19-2009, 10:01 AM	#6
shell91320 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: UTAH/CA girl Posts: 198 Gallery: shell91320 WOE: Induction/dreaming of OWL Start Date: Nov 2004	Pam, what do you think about many comments that I read that people started having symptoms of too much cream after using it for the second, third and following months? I read from people who said they were pretty much fine the first month, but seemed to have problems with prolonged use.

06-19-2009, 12:40 PM	#7
CindyCRNA MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,305 Gallery: CindyCRNA Stats: 152/132/123 WOE: 30%/40%/30% Net carbs about 70. Start Date: 6/09, LC since 1/09	I am on BHRT but am new to it. It is my understanding from reading others posts on this board about OTC yam cream is you did not have any symptoms with it because it doesn't do anything. My personal thought is you need more labs drawn while on your current dose to see where you are. You may be on too much but you need blood work. The great thing about BHRT is the ability to titrate the dose you need by looking at your blood levels.

06-19-2009, 05:08 PM	#8
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 13,937 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	I measured my cream of 100mg/ML in a 1/4 teaspoon. And you might be reacting to something IN the base. BUT...we need to remember when we are hypothyroid, that when the doc adds prog. or estradiol, etc. it 'binds' a significant part of the T4 to T3 conversion. And you won't be able to just get T4, T3 anymore! You now need FREE T4 and FREE T3..cuz they show what's unbound by the incoming BHRT and what's 'usable' to you. Totals (T4, T3) only show what's in the blood, not what you get to use. It's pretty useless when on BHRT. Most docs do a FT4, FT3 BEFORE they give BHRT, and then four to six weeks later. My doc always told me to work with my compounder (yep, go ahead, call your compounder!) and I would either add or omit a little progesterone. But it's binding your conversion of T4 to T3, so the swelling might be from no T3. How much T4 and T3 are you on? Armour? T4 and Cytomel? Pam

06-20-2009, 05:22 PM	#9
shell91320 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: UTAH/CA girl Posts: 198 Gallery: shell91320 WOE: Induction/dreaming of OWL Start Date: Nov 2004	Thanks for the replies. There may be something in the base as you say Pam, because I've tried 1/8 of a tsp and less for a couple days. I'm getting the same exact symptoms, just much less severe. Headache and nausea is the most pronounced. I have had my Free T4, Free T3 and progesterone taken a couple of months ago. That's what my synthroid and progesterone dosages were based on. Unfortunately, I think I'm giving up on natural progesterone for now. I took the wild yam cream a few months ago, and it seemed to help regulate my periods which have been irregular for the last year. And I felt better overall. Placebo effect or whatever, I felt much better, and that's what I'm looking for. I can't afford to be nauseas and sick messing around with the progesterone. It takes too much out of me. I also still feel hypothyroid even though my lab numbers don't indicate that. I am just burnt out and tired all the time. I am not on Cytomel, so that might be something I need to try because my Free T3 isn't quite where it needs to be according to my new doctor. Unfortunately I only have so much money and patience for experimenting with all this. I just want to feel better so I can have the energy to exercise and lose weight, and have enough strength to take care of my family the way I want to. I guess that's the boat most of us are in. That's why I like coming to this board. Thanks for your help. Shelley

06-21-2009, 08:27 AM	#10
nonstickpam107 Thyroid Patient Advocate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 13,937 Gallery: nonstickpam107 Stats: 230/116/120 (BF<26%) WOE: Started w/Atkins/Now BFFM Start Date: Nov. 23 2000	Shelley, I'd surely try adding Cytomel and getting your FT3 up where it 'belongs' (actually I'd rather have Armour Thyroid personally, but the synthetics can be closely monitored too.;..you just won't be getting any T1, or T2) before I go messing with the sex hormones. As a matter of fact, my thyroid doc wanted my FT4 at least midway (NOT OVER!!!) and my FT3 all the way 3/4 of range before he started progesterone, estradiol, etc. Pam

06-24-2009, 10:51 AM	#12
Gabby55 Junior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northwestern Missouri Posts: 44 Gallery: Gabby55	This is was interesting to read. One time I tried the progesterone cream from Walmart. It made me break out in a terrible rash. Then I ordered some from a place on the net called Myhealthcoop, or something to that effect. My bloodpressure became very high, but no rash. I am postmenopause and not using estrogen because my mother had breast cancer, so that makes me afraid of it. So does anyone know what effects you would have with no estrogen and only using progesterone cream?