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Old 01-15-2010, 12:45 PM   #31
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Amazingly annoying

So I went to my ob/gyn to have my blood drawn and asked the nurse which tests were checked on the lab slip, only TSH, she told me that once she spoke to the dr. the dr. explained TSH is the only test necessary initially. I then did something I am entirely not happy about, I explained I had consulted with an endocrinologist (used that word as I knew that would appeal to her, didn't think "Pam" would work who gave me this list of tests I had to have done but I didn't want to have to pay out of pocket. Yes, I lied, and I HATE lying and I'm actually quite pissed that I had to resort to that. She picked 6 tests (apparently I can only have 6 at a time) TSH, T4 T3, she wrote out "TPO AB" as there was no box for that and then I think but I'm not sure she selected Vitamin D, progesterone and estradiol. So I'll see what I get on Monday and if I need more will just pay out of pocket for the rest.

So here's my question: Why does almost every single doctor in the states believe that the TSH is THE definitive test? Now, I understand what happened in the 70's with its invention and understand that that is the training in med school (I've read stop the madness website and all the posts here and on several other boards) BUT given how common this is and how readily the information is that the TSH is nonsense, why has NOTHING changed? What is the source of the doctor's resistance to think outside of TSH? There MUST be some theory as to why and I'm just really curious.

I'm guessing that maybe it's because there was a time women would seek drugs to uses a weight loss remedy and so the physicians because suspect of any one who use the word thyroid and since women's issues are more ignored than men's..... But I'm guessing here, I am genuinely curious why the health care industry has choose to perpetuate such stupidity!
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:55 PM   #32
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oh and there was no box for T3 so the nurse checked "T3 uptake" I think she said.
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:11 PM   #33
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you normally have to write in FT3 on some labs sheets..
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:24 PM   #34
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Answer: EVERY single doctor DOESN'T think TSH is the answer. And a T3 uptake is actually a T4 binding test, it doesn't test for T3 hormone at all. I'm not a doctor (I have more time than a doctor to research, lucky me!) but I wouldn't let an OBGYN treat me for thyroid (sorry, I'm sure there's a couple who are good, but I haven't met any yet!)and I sure as H E double toothpicks wouldn't want an endo either (there are a few that ARE good though). I'd look for a DO, or an MD or internist ...say, have you gone to the www.armourthyroid.com website and tried the 'docfinder' there? Put in zipcodes (get that phone book out or whitepages dot com) for up to two HOURS DRIVING TIME ONE WAY.

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Old 01-16-2010, 10:58 AM   #35
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I'm not saying every single doctor does, but a large portion does and this issues seems to be widely untreated and a big cause of the lack of treatment seems to be this desire to only read TSH. So I'm just curious why it is so, why so many (not all) but so many follow the TSH to such a degree that it seems done right nutty? I think there's more too it then they've been taught that in the 70's.

I'm not having my ob/gyn treat me, her office was just willing to do the test, on thursday I go with my results to my brand new MD Internist who has said she's more "open". It's unfortunate to hear there was no T3 done, oh well, I tried and will pay out of pocket to be re-tested if it comes down to that. I did go to that website and there was only 1 dr who takes my insurance and I would have to switch "Networks" and loose my ob/gyn (who I like for that stuff). So I'm going to give the internist a try and if she doesn't help then I'll switch networks and go the one dr. listed on the site that says he proscribes armor. And if that doesn't work then I'll do it all out of pocket but as a single mom I have to first try every insurance avenue as I have zero expendable income.
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Old 01-16-2010, 01:40 PM   #36
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Thyroid

Hi,
I just signed up today. I hope that I am doing this correctly. I am curious about heart palpitations on Armour Thyroid. I am now taking 3 30mg tablets a day (to get to 90mg). I used to just take one tablet a day. I have been on this dose for almost 2 years. Lately though, I am experiencing heart palpitations. I had a stress test done Wednesday, no results yet, but they were visible by echo. Ha anyone else experienced this. What did your doc say?

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Old 01-16-2010, 08:03 PM   #37
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I feel really bad for those whose insurance isn't 'adequate' and for folks who don't have access to good thyroid docs! LOTS of people here have their PCP or their OB do the testing (to have insurance cover it) and then go to another doc to have thyroid treated..problem is...the OB's don't want to do the proper testing lots of times.

Can you go through Online Lab Tests: blood work, blood testing and laboratory tests their doc signs the lab sheet, they send you to a lab near you and report back to you....it's under 90 bucks (usually a FT4, FT3 and TSH costs around anywhere from 150 to 300 dollars and some insurances will NOT pay for it, so this is a great savings). But I feel 90 dollars is not bad to figure out if you need to be seen or not.

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Old 01-17-2010, 01:54 AM   #38
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I was just talking to one of my girlfriends tonight about this. She is a pharmacist at Kaiser and said the standard there is to test TSH and T4 and if together those present a problem or if symptoms dictate then they will do T3. But their guideline is .4 to 4 and if you are above 4 then they treat down to 4 and would never push to get it lower than 4 and if you request to get treatment to get your TSH to be lower than 4, doctors will think you are weight loss seeking and they are resistant to that. So I thought that was interesting. When I asked why this was, she said that most doctors educated 15 years and longer just haven't learned of anything different and that is what is the norm and no one is making them getting educated any further than what they already know.

If things go poorly on Thursday I will pay to get my blood work done through the online service and if it shows anything then pay to go see a doctor.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:30 AM   #39
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Now that's really interesting about Kaiser. btw, I grew up in La Canada many moons ago - we left when they started having smog alerts. Been gone from down there since 11/72. Anyway, I have Kaiser and was just referred to an Endo last June (finally, after a fight w/my PCP). She said they're Trying to get their lab to use .2-2.0 for TSH ranges which I thought was interesting (back in June'09). At least this one tries to get the patient "feeling well" or I never would have gotten any Liothyronine. They got me under 1.0. My last TSH had a lab range from .10-5.5 in November so as of then it wasn't changed, at least up here in N. CA. I'm still working on getting a FT3...grr. I think it's the almighty $$ because it costs more than a TSH and an occasional FT4 test. I think I'm going to borrow Pam's comment (with her permission of course, lol) about... Would you give a diabetic insulin without proper testing?

2 years ago we had a deductible plan. Hated it! I know that then, a TSH test ran $155 and we paid $45 out of pocket plus a $10 lab co-pay. Thank goodness the next year we were back to the HMO plan.

Last edited by watcher513; 01-17-2010 at 02:41 AM..
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:38 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heidisme View Post
I was just talking to one of my girlfriends tonight about this. She is a pharmacist at Kaiser and said the standard there is to test TSH and T4 and if together those present a problem or if symptoms dictate then they will do T3. But their guideline is .4 to 4 and if you are above 4 then they treat down to 4 and would never push to get it lower than 4 and if you request to get treatment to get your TSH to be lower than 4, doctors will think you are weight loss seeking and they are resistant to that. So I thought that was interesting. When I asked why this was, she said that most doctors educated 15 years and longer just haven't learned of anything different and that is what is the norm and no one is making them getting educated any further than what they already know.

If things go poorly on Thursday I will pay to get my blood work done through the online service and if it shows anything then pay to go see a doctor.
That pharmacist is one smart cookie! And here's the 'sad' part...taking enough thyroid hormone to put TSH to a normal 1 or slightly under and just taking T4 hormone...usually never makes a person lose weight (unless they take overdose enough to push them to 'hyper'). And then I get emails from patients who are MAD as all get out cuz they aren't losing weight!

Thyroid hormone replacement, when needed, brings the patient to 'even playing field'. Meaning that once you are replaced to 'normal' you will lose weight IF you eat right and exercise like a normal person.

Pam
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:41 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watcher513 View Post

2 years ago we had a deductible plan. Hated it! I know that then, a TSH test ran $155 and we paid $45 out of pocket plus a $10 lab co-pay. Thank goodness the next year we were back to the HMO plan.

Well, that's why when I talk about online labs, it's such a BARGAIN, some people just don't understand how much a 'real' thyroid panel can cost! A FT3 alone at some labs can be over 100 dollars. When you can get FT4, FT3, TSH and TPO's for under 125...that's a deal!

Pam
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:45 AM   #42
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so a 3.11 is not good for thyroid??
my lab paperwork says
< or = 20 years = 0.40 to 4.50
my Dr said I'm fine
my mom and all three of my sisters are on thyroid
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:14 PM   #43
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STBS...Um, if you don't know why the range for TSH is skewed...you might want to start researching and reading right NOW. start with Hypothyroid Mistreatment and Thyroid Treatment Scandal | Stop The Thyroid Madness and then Thyroid Disease Information - Hypothyroidism - Hyperthyroidism - Thyroid Cancer - Autoimmune Disease - Hashimoto's - Graves' - Goiter - Nodules TSH is a test for pituitary it is NOT in any WAY, a test of your thyroid hormones.

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Old 01-21-2010, 02:37 PM   #44
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Here is the name of a good thyroid doc in Irving Tx (don't know where you are, but it's a family doc who's good at thyroid, and that'll cost less than an endo or 'famous' thyroid doc):

Stephanie Elmore, Star Care, Irving, TX - Family Doctor

Pam
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:42 AM   #45
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Irving is over by Dallas (about 3 hours away and I cant drive
legally blind)
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:27 AM   #46
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I can't drive EITHER....no peripheral vision...I'd have someone drive me there. Actually, when you're looking for a great thyroid doctor, two to three hours one way driving time isn't considered 'abnormal'...I have another idea too:

Go to Yahoo groups, put in Texas thyroid support group in search and join it...they will possibly know of someone good who's closer (and maybe is an MD or a DO and will cost less too).

Pam
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:53 AM   #47
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Retinitus Pigmentosa??
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Old 01-26-2010, 07:16 AM   #48
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I have TED (Thyroid Eye Disease) resulting from not getting proper thyroid treatment early enough. I cannot obtain a driver's license, thus I cannot drive. But, I have a 'network' of friends who will drive me anywhere I need to go (notice I said 'need', lol). I live about an hour away from a 'somewhat large' city, but usually I've having to travel 3.5 hours one way for treatment for some of my other autoimmune disesases. I know how 'limiting' it can be though (although I DO work every day...I'm fortunate I don't need peripheral vision to do my 'craft').

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Old 03-11-2010, 08:48 PM   #49
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Just have to share this with you all. I called my health care Dr to ask her to add Vitamin D and B to my lab testing that I'm doing tomorrow to see how my thyroid is doing (at the recommendation of Dr. Barker). My health care Dr. had the nurse call me back to tell me that my Vitamin D was perfectly fine, only 1 point below normal at 19. I said that's considered bad, she openly laughed at me and said in between chuckles "No..... that's .... not bad. It's good." My god! Do doctors not have to be educated at all! Needless to say I'm getting a new health care dr. just so she doesn't get my money from the insurance company each month as that sort of "intelligence" should not be rewarded.

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Old 03-11-2010, 11:45 PM   #50
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Their attitude is scary. I'm so sorry.
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:06 AM   #51
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Wow.

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Old 03-19-2010, 10:31 AM   #52
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My health care Doctor just called to tell me I am now hyperthyroid and I need to cut back on my meds and she's referring me to an endo. I picked up my lab results to bring to Dr. Simon Barker to see what he says.

What do you think? Here they are:

Vit D Total 63 referrence range 20-100
Vit D D3 63
Vit D, D2 <4

TSH .32 reference range .40-4.50

T4, free .9 range 0.8-1.8
T3, free 374 range 230-420
T3, total 198 range 76-181

Ferritin 31 range 10-232

Vitamin B12 963 range 200-1100

Folate, serum >24.0 range: Low: <3.4; Borderline: 3.4-5.4; Normal: >5.4

Looks like my Vit. B and D supplements have worked out really well.

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Old 03-19-2010, 10:51 AM   #53
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My health care Doctor just called to tell me I am now hyperthyroid and I need to cut back on my meds and she's referring me to an endo. I picked up my lab results to bring to Dr. Simon Barker to see what he says.

What do you think? Here they are:

Vit D Total 63 referrence range 20-100
Vit D D3 63
Vit D, D2 <4

TSH .32 reference range .40-4.50

T4, free .9 range 0.8-1.8
T3, free 374 range 230-420
T3, total 198 range 76-181

Ferritin 31 range 10-232

Vitamin B12 963 range 200-1100

Folate, serum >24.0 range: Low: <3.4; Borderline: 3.4-5.4; Normal: >5.4

Looks like my Vit. B and D supplements have worked out really well.
what do I think? I think your dr is an idiot. Your TSH is *quite* supressed. this does NOT MEAN you are HypER.
By all means go to an Endo but I'd take the time to research and find a good one since there's no guarantee that the one your primary refers to you won't be equally dumb.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:57 AM   #54
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hahaha, yes my doctor is an idiot, that is pretty much what this entire thread is about. But I see Dr. Simon Barker "on the side" and I'm perfectly happy with him, so as long as I can afford him I will pay out of pocket as I cannot find ANYONE under blue shield that can adequately answer my questions when I call them to decide if I want to switch to them, doesn't mean I don't keep searching, but so far no luck.

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Old 03-19-2010, 12:53 PM   #55
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im curious HOW he gets quite when the lab value is .4and you are .32.. sheesh, he wouldnt want to see mine.. he'd have a heart attack.

glad you are able to get the right treatment.
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:33 PM   #56
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Hi Heidsme!!!!

your results show amazing improvement. How are you feeling??? Your D3 and B supplements are working....your iron is even doing better as I recall....

My opinion (you didn't ask) is to forget the Endo and just do what you are doing on the side. it's working!!!! I think many of us are paying out of pocket and going out of network in order to get proper care. You gotta do what you gotta do to get healthy and happy.

I"m sure you have Trader Joe's in Glendale...check out their brand of sublingual B12, B6, folic acid. About $8 for a tiny bottle of 100? (comes in a box). Just pop one under your tongue and hopefully that will assist your low folate levels and surely can't hurt the B's! Not the best form of B12, but it's cheap and easy to take, especially since your levels are doing so well...and it doesn't go through the liver (sublingual).

So, how ARE you feeling these days?!?!?! Inquiring minds are curious! :-)

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Old 03-19-2010, 03:30 PM   #57
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Well, I'm glad to hear they are good results. I feel a lot better that's for sure and I'm actually able to eat 1000 calories and not gain weight, and that is a life altering fact. It seems like it's going well for me, apparently my health ins. dr. thinks I'm in dire straights, hahaha. I've sent over my labs to Dr. Barker.

So is my ferritin low? and I thought the folate was good?
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Old 03-19-2010, 04:25 PM   #58
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OOOppppsss....my dyslexia is showing...sorry read the "low" on the folate and didn't see your result up front.....sorry.......

I think ferritin (to feel your best) needs to be 70-100???? Others will chime in I"m sure on that one.

I'm just tickled that you are feeling better!!!
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Old 03-19-2010, 04:30 PM   #59
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Thank you! You're so sweet!
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:45 AM   #60
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I haven't posted in a while but I'm doing so because I recently gained 6 pounds and am quite unhappy about that. I have a new health care Dr. who wants to cut my thyroid in half due to my lab results, I think he said my TSH was .01, but he has mailed them to me and I will post all of them the moment I get them. Due to a lack of funds I may not be able to pay Dr. Barker to look at them and render an opinion but will drop them off at his office just in case. I know he wants me to come in again before he'll give me another script but I simply cannot afford him right now.

I took nature-throid for months (1 grain or 90 mg), then switched to EFRA (1 grain or 90 mg) when nature-throid was out and in July was on nature-throid which they ran out of again and am now back on EFRA. My question is, is it bad to be switching back and forth? And for both can I eat after I take them in the morning or do I have to wait an hour and if I do eat is it ok to have milk which has calcium?

Interestingly. my chiropractic did a muscular test with all my vitamins and medications and when he held the nature-throid I did fine but my body really hated the EFRA.

Heidi
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