Counting calories

longstocking · 05-26-2009, 06:41 AM

I know in his book Stillman never said you should count calories on QWL: 'just don't stuff yourself and eat until you're satisfied...". But since it's highly ketogenic diet most people are in such deep ketosis on this diet that they feel fine eating only 600-800 calories a day. Now, I'm not sure how such strict calorie restriction effects weight loss. On the one hand it should make you lose weight rapidly since it's so much lower than BMR, but on the other hand isn't it supposed to put you in starvation mode and slow down your metabolism and as a result slow down your weigh loss?
So my question is do I need to count calories? Not only because I'm afraid to eat too little, but because I'm afraid to eat to much as well. I've heard stillman advised to not go over 1200 cals daily.

So what do you think: should I count calories? If yes, then how many calories is too little and how many calories is too much?

Cindy513 · 05-26-2009, 07:29 AM

Why make yourself work harder than you have to. If they say eat til you are pleasantly full then do that. Counting calories adds a lot of tension to your day and thus making it more difficult to relax and let your body let go of the calories.
If you truly enjoy counting calories go ahead but why do it otherwise?
If the founder of a diet doesn't think it is necessary then why do you?
Just relax and let your body work for you OK?
Good luck don't tense up about your cals. and it will happen.

longstocking · 05-26-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosewood513

Why make yourself work harder than you have to. If they say eat til you are pleasantly full then do that. Counting calories adds a lot of tension to your day and thus making it more difficult to relax and let your body let go of the calories.
If you truly enjoy counting calories go ahead but why do it otherwise?
If the founder of a diet doesn't think it is necessary then why do you?
Just relax and let your body work for you OK?
Good luck don't tense up about your cals. and it will happen.

Thanks, rosewood! But fullness is a relative concept, especially for people like me who have had struggled with an eating disordered in the past. I'm still struggling from time to time.
So sometimes it's really hard for me to say whether I'm full or still hungry. Sometimes (on a LC diet) I keep telling myself that I'm "not hungry" and eat almost nothing the entire day. And sometimes I feel so "hungry" I can't stop eating. It's really hard for me to recognize true hunger. And while I learn to do that I think it'd be better to count calories.

tattoo_girl · 06-01-2009, 05:47 PM

Im right there with you longstocking...Ive been bulimic since 17 years old, now nearly
26, and still struggling. I feel that low carb definately helps to keep me from binging on crap and then hurting myself afterwards, but hey it happens. Ive been on and off of stillman for weeks now and get really confused when it comes to calories..also, I never really know when I am full! Ill just keep eating until I feel stuffed...any sugestions on how you deal?

Also, I feel horrible if I eat to much of even the acceptable foods that are listed on this WOE...like fish! how nuts am I?

Remykins · 06-01-2009, 07:56 PM

Sometimes it is your brain and not your body. I know that is what it is for me.

I make a plan, and a list of what i am going to eat throughout the day, and stick to it, otherwise i binge and then get emotionally and physically sick.

longstocking · 06-02-2009, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tattoo_girl

Im right there with you longstocking...Ive been bulimic since 17 years old, now nearly
26, and still struggling. I feel that low carb definately helps to keep me from binging on crap and then hurting myself afterwards, but hey it happens. Ive been on and off of stillman for weeks now and get really confused when it comes to calories..also, I never really know when I am full! Ill just keep eating until I feel stuffed...any sugestions on how you deal?

Honestly, I'm not very good at dealing with it myself. I tend to go into extremes. When I was doing stillman's for the first time I was eating almost non-stop all day long. Needles to say, I didn't lose a lot of weight. This time I'm eating maybe too little. I'm in very deep ketosis. So even when I eat nothing the entire day I still don't get hunger pangs, so I eat, like 600-700 cals. Back in my eating-disordered times that sounded like a lot. But I'm trying to 'fix' my metabolism, so eating so little may not so good.

I wish I could give you a good advice on how to deal with binges. I think, what Remykins suggested might work. I try to make a plan for the day, too. It really helps.
Also sipping water (better carbonated) in between bites makes you feel full faster, so you less likely to overeat. You may also wanna try drinking tea or any other hot liquid during meal times. Drinking water between meals works for me, too. If I feel like eating something off-plan I just drink cold fizzy water and the cravings go away.
this is all I can think about right now. But if I have more ideas I PM you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tattoo_girl

Also, I feel horrible if I eat to much of even the acceptable foods that are listed on this WOE...like fish! how nuts am I?

There's nothing wrong with that. I love fish! Yesterday, i ate some cod that was fried on a pan (with oil!), because I just couldn't resist it. It was soooo delicious!
But I feel your pain. If I eat too much even of on-plan foods I stil feel like a failure.

dizzyizzy · 06-02-2009, 04:26 AM

I agree with the suggestions above:

1. Drink carbonated drinks as Longstocking says (I drink a couple of diet cokes or soda water, love the bubbly taste but not good for the water retention because of the sodium, yikes!)
2. Work to get in ketosis, do a very clean diet and exercise, if you are in deep ketosis you will not feel hungry
3. make your plan for the day, I come to the office with containers of food but is better because by knowing what I am going to eat throughout the day I just know that that is taken care of and I don't need to think/obsess about it anymore
4. If between meals you steal feel hungry, have a tea or a cup of decaf coffee
5. If you still find yourself having hunger pangs, some L-glutamine could help. Check the Atkins books/threads because I don't remember what the exact dosis is.
6. Keep a journal either written or on Fitday. It really helps me to be conscious of both my portions, my calories, and my meals balance.
7. Drink lots of water, often we confuse thirst by hunger.
8. Identify if your hunger is physicall or emotional. How do you tell? Physical hunger builds up slowly. Emotional hunger strikes you just like that. If you identify that the hunger is emotional (and a lot of times it will be, for us who suffer from eating disorders), try to identify the feelings you are going through (are you bored, angry, depressed, frustrated?) and work on learning healthier ways to soothe yourself that do not involve eating (maybe having a nice cup of coffee, a nice stretch, pray or meditate, read a book, listen your favourite songs, or do anything that makes you feel better about yourself).

And mostly, we have to be kind to ourselves ladies!!! This is about PROGRESS RATHER THAN PERFECTION. We are already doing something for our bodies, but let's not abuse ourselves by feeling like losers because we had a tablespoon of olive oil or even a few fries!!! Recognise why is it that we cheated, what lead us to make that choice, so we can be aware next time and prepared to face "temptation", and get back on the wagon immediatly!!!

It was destructive thinking that got us to destructive eating patterns. So let's get healthy physically AND emotionally =)

IZZY

longstocking · 06-02-2009, 05:15 AM

^^^
Well said, sistah! And such great tips! Especially about physical hunger vs. emotional hunger.

I can only add that it's better to be careful with artificial sweeteners. They cause strong cravings or even hunger in some people. I quote another LCF member:

"I get cravings using Spenda and I wanted to know more about that so I did some research and it seems the tastebuds signal the brain sweets coming and in antisipation of those sweets arriving in your blood stream ( remember glucose uncontrolled is a poison in the body) insulin is released. this insulin reacts with the glucose already in your blood stream and causes the blood sugar level to go down. Then there is no glucose arriving from that sweet taste to replace that missing blood glucose so you got a body sending hunger signals and a Brain saying quick get some glucose in there as the level continues to drop. If you only had your sweetened drink and no carb foods then the body is in glucogneisis production mode making glucose from protein the hydrocarbon backbone of fats and the spent remains from the anerobic part of the glucose energy cycle lactate".

Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who get hungry from a/s. I used to sweeten everyting with a/s before when I was doing LC and was ravenous all the time! This time i try to avoid a/s and don't feel hungry. I have occational diet coke but in that case I prepare myself for some carvings. Diet sodas are probably made by the devil himself!

they're so confusing. At first they make you feel so full and good, but after an hour or so you can't stop eating...

kihayes · 06-02-2009, 08:45 AM

Great post guys! I have found that the water especially helps before, during, and after eating to keep you full. And as Stillman says, it help flush out the kidneys and that stored fat!

[COLOR="Blue"]"Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who get hungry from a/s."[/COLOR]
longstocking, have you tried the natural sweetner stevia that supposed to come from a plant? I have been curious about that one.

longstocking · 06-02-2009, 01:26 PM

I've heard a lot about stevia, but never tried it. Do you think I should? I think it will give the same effect as a/s, because it has a sweet taste, so it will still trigger insulin strike and therefore cravings.

But that's okay, I'm getting used to drink unsweetened coffee and tea.

tattoo_girl · 06-03-2009, 07:01 PM

This is all great advice...and yeah I am finding my way slowly to deal with things....I understand what you guys are saying but at the same time the mind of a person with an eating disorder works quite different....I can drink some water and tell myself that Id rather go read or meditate, but when you feel the need to binge, or feel that you've made one little error in you eating pattern, your "disordered" self takes over..Its like Im in a trance and cant be stopped...binge and purge! but have been B/P free for 5 days now and intend to keep it that way for as long as I can!!

sticking to strict stillman will help me for sure! thanks all!

tattoo_girl · 06-03-2009, 07:02 PM

ps..artificial sweetners do set me off, and cause cravings so I tend to stear clear, but I find that stevia, if used sparingly, works well for me...its good to!

Remykins · 06-03-2009, 07:04 PM

I had a eating disorder as well, that is part of why LC/high fat doesnt work as well, my metabolism and body are readjusting. Hang in there!

longstocking · 06-04-2009, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tattoo_girl

This is all great advice...and yeah I am finding my way slowly to deal with things....I understand what you guys are saying but at the same time the mind of a person with an eating disorder works quite different....I can drink some water and tell myself that Id rather go read or meditate, but when you feel the need to binge, or feel that you've made one little error in you eating pattern, your "disordered" self takes over..Its like Im in a trance and cant be stopped...binge and purge! but have been B/P free for 5 days now and intend to keep it that way for as long as I can!!

This all sounds so familiar to me! I'm afraid to make even teeny tiny slip-up, because I know I will probably end up binging. It's 'all or nothing' way of thinking and it's common for people with eating disorders. Honestly, i don't know what keeps me from binging sometimes... I think I chose a LC diet, because it makes me remember all the time that even one small bite of cake, pizza, chocolate etc. might kick me out of ketosis. I just don't wanna go through carb withdrawal and craving again. So I don't even think about binging. I just tell myself that binging is not an option.

btw, 5 days b/p free? Way to go!

Keep up great work!
I haven't purged in 18 day! I already started to forget what it feels like...

Hang in there!
If you wanna talk or anything feel free to PM me!

Lynn

dizzyizzy · 06-04-2009, 02:19 AM

I am sick too. However my 12 step program and support group are helping me to overcome my illness, little by little, and it has been life changing. I feel I am slowly getting my life back. I get the same urges to go back to my old ways, but I am learning now. Is hard work but is absolutely worth it. I don't mean to preach or anything, just sharing what has worked for me, and I apologise if I sounded condescending on my post above or this one. Not the intention at all. Just sharing my thoughts that come from my own experience.

longstocking · 06-06-2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyizzy

I am sick too. However my 12 step program and support group are helping me to overcome my illness, little by little, and it has been life changing. I feel I am slowly getting my life back. I get the same urges to go back to my old ways, but I am learning now. Is hard work but is absolutely worth it. I don't mean to preach or anything, just sharing what has worked for me, and I apologise if I sounded condescending on my post above or this one. Not the intention at all. Just sharing my thoughts that come from my own experience.

I'm sorry you're still struggling with an ED, Izzy.

I'm not a fan of 12 step programms (the whole higher power concept bugs me a little), but I'm a member of an online support group and it's really helpful! It's always nice to know you're not alone, isn't it? I hope I will recover completely some day. I wanna finally start living my life...

dizzyizzy · 06-06-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longstocking

I'm sorry you're still struggling with an ED, Izzy.

I'm not a fan of 12 step programms (the whole higher power concept bugs me a little), but I'm a member of an online support group and it's really helpful! It's always nice to know you're not alone, isn't it? I hope I will recover completely some day. I wanna finally start living my life...

absolutely, without the support and love from my group I couldn't be doing this. I'm really happy to hear you're getting help too, doesn't matter where it comes from as long as we get it and as long as it works! I really wish you the very best in your recovery

LustfortheMoment · 06-07-2009, 10:35 PM

I probably eat between 900-1000 cal/day, Longstocking, but I never stop to count them. I find that my appetite is markedly diminished in ketosis.

I recognize that many find 12 step programs such as AA, NA, OA, etc to be extraordinarily helpful. I'm probably too agnostic to subscribe, but I certainly know the power of faith. I'm from the religion of "whatever works" when it comes to weight loss...........

Remykins · 06-09-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LustfortheMoment

I'm from the religion of "whatever works" when it comes to weight loss...........

I like that quote... everyone is so different you have to find what works for you, whatever that might be.

As soon as you can look in the mirror, like what you see, and feel good on the inside and out... you have found it! Sometimes they dont have names, sometimes they are based on some diet then modfied, and sometimes they come from just pure experimentation.

Lower the cals, up the cals, more fat, less fat, more veggies, less, see how YOU feel.

05-26-2009, 06:41 AM	#1
longstocking Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 197 Gallery: longstocking WOE: VLC and Stillman's	Counting calories I know in his book Stillman never said you should count calories on QWL: 'just don't stuff yourself and eat until you're satisfied...". But since it's highly ketogenic diet most people are in such deep ketosis on this diet that they feel fine eating only 600-800 calories a day. Now, I'm not sure how such strict calorie restriction effects weight loss. On the one hand it should make you lose weight rapidly since it's so much lower than BMR, but on the other hand isn't it supposed to put you in starvation mode and slow down your metabolism and as a result slow down your weigh loss? So my question is do I need to count calories? Not only because I'm afraid to eat too little, but because I'm afraid to eat to much as well. I've heard stillman advised to not go over 1200 cals daily. So what do you think: should I count calories? If yes, then how many calories is too little and how many calories is too much? Last edited by longstocking; 05-26-2009 at 06:42 AM..

06-01-2009, 05:47 PM	#4
tattoo_girl Junior LCF Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 26 Gallery: tattoo_girl Stats: 160/160/130 WOE: South Beach/Stillman mix up Start Date: March 2009	Im right there with you longstocking...Ive been bulimic since 17 years old, now nearly 26, and still struggling. I feel that low carb definately helps to keep me from binging on crap and then hurting myself afterwards, but hey it happens. Ive been on and off of stillman for weeks now and get really confused when it comes to calories..also, I never really know when I am full! Ill just keep eating until I feel stuffed...any sugestions on how you deal? Also, I feel horrible if I eat to much of even the acceptable foods that are listed on this WOE...like fish! how nuts am I? __________________ Stats: 5"8-160 Lbs Lowest weight: 138 after 4 months of South Beach.... Highest weight 190Lbs as a teenager-junk food = fat kids If you think you can do it, or you think you can't do it, either way you are right~

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05-26-2009, 07:29 AM	#2
Cindy513 Junior LCF Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 26 Gallery: Cindy513	Why make yourself work harder than you have to. If they say eat til you are pleasantly full then do that. Counting calories adds a lot of tension to your day and thus making it more difficult to relax and let your body let go of the calories. If you truly enjoy counting calories go ahead but why do it otherwise? If the founder of a diet doesn't think it is necessary then why do you? Just relax and let your body work for you OK? Good luck don't tense up about your cals. and it will happen.

06-01-2009, 07:56 PM	#5
Remykins MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 1,033 Gallery: Remykins Stats: 125/120 WOE: Low carb, JUDDD Start Date: May 6th 2009	Sometimes it is your brain and not your body. I know that is what it is for me. I make a plan, and a list of what i am going to eat throughout the day, and stick to it, otherwise i binge and then get emotionally and physically sick.

06-02-2009, 04:26 AM	#7
dizzyizzy Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 72 Gallery: dizzyizzy Stats: 189/176/132 WOE: Atkins/Stillman Start Date: May 2009	I agree with the suggestions above: 1. Drink carbonated drinks as Longstocking says (I drink a couple of diet cokes or soda water, love the bubbly taste but not good for the water retention because of the sodium, yikes!) 2. Work to get in ketosis, do a very clean diet and exercise, if you are in deep ketosis you will not feel hungry 3. make your plan for the day, I come to the office with containers of food but is better because by knowing what I am going to eat throughout the day I just know that that is taken care of and I don't need to think/obsess about it anymore 4. If between meals you steal feel hungry, have a tea or a cup of decaf coffee 5. If you still find yourself having hunger pangs, some L-glutamine could help. Check the Atkins books/threads because I don't remember what the exact dosis is. 6. Keep a journal either written or on Fitday. It really helps me to be conscious of both my portions, my calories, and my meals balance. 7. Drink lots of water, often we confuse thirst by hunger. 8. Identify if your hunger is physicall or emotional. How do you tell? Physical hunger builds up slowly. Emotional hunger strikes you just like that. If you identify that the hunger is emotional (and a lot of times it will be, for us who suffer from eating disorders), try to identify the feelings you are going through (are you bored, angry, depressed, frustrated?) and work on learning healthier ways to soothe yourself that do not involve eating (maybe having a nice cup of coffee, a nice stretch, pray or meditate, read a book, listen your favourite songs, or do anything that makes you feel better about yourself). And mostly, we have to be kind to ourselves ladies!!! This is about PROGRESS RATHER THAN PERFECTION. We are already doing something for our bodies, but let's not abuse ourselves by feeling like losers because we had a tablespoon of olive oil or even a few fries!!! Recognise why is it that we cheated, what lead us to make that choice, so we can be aware next time and prepared to face "temptation", and get back on the wagon immediatly!!! It was destructive thinking that got us to destructive eating patterns. So let's get healthy physically AND emotionally =) IZZY

06-02-2009, 05:15 AM	#8
longstocking Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 197 Gallery: longstocking WOE: VLC and Stillman's	^^^ Well said, sistah! And such great tips! Especially about physical hunger vs. emotional hunger. I can only add that it's better to be careful with artificial sweeteners. They cause strong cravings or even hunger in some people. I quote another LCF member: "I get cravings using Spenda and I wanted to know more about that so I did some research and it seems the tastebuds signal the brain sweets coming and in antisipation of those sweets arriving in your blood stream ( remember glucose uncontrolled is a poison in the body) insulin is released. this insulin reacts with the glucose already in your blood stream and causes the blood sugar level to go down. Then there is no glucose arriving from that sweet taste to replace that missing blood glucose so you got a body sending hunger signals and a Brain saying quick get some glucose in there as the level continues to drop. If you only had your sweetened drink and no carb foods then the body is in glucogneisis production mode making glucose from protein the hydrocarbon backbone of fats and the spent remains from the anerobic part of the glucose energy cycle lactate". Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who get hungry from a/s. I used to sweeten everyting with a/s before when I was doing LC and was ravenous all the time! This time i try to avoid a/s and don't feel hungry. I have occational diet coke but in that case I prepare myself for some carvings. Diet sodas are probably made by the devil himself! they're so confusing. At first they make you feel so full and good, but after an hour or so you can't stop eating...

06-02-2009, 08:45 AM	#9
kihayes Junior LCF Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 46 Gallery: kihayes	Great post guys! I have found that the water especially helps before, during, and after eating to keep you full. And as Stillman says, it help flush out the kidneys and that stored fat! [COLOR="Blue"]"Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who get hungry from a/s."[/COLOR] longstocking, have you tried the natural sweetner stevia that supposed to come from a plant? I have been curious about that one.

06-02-2009, 01:26 PM	#10
longstocking Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 197 Gallery: longstocking WOE: VLC and Stillman's	I've heard a lot about stevia, but never tried it. Do you think I should? I think it will give the same effect as a/s, because it has a sweet taste, so it will still trigger insulin strike and therefore cravings. But that's okay, I'm getting used to drink unsweetened coffee and tea.

06-03-2009, 07:01 PM	#11
tattoo_girl Junior LCF Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 26 Gallery: tattoo_girl Stats: 160/160/130 WOE: South Beach/Stillman mix up Start Date: March 2009	This is all great advice...and yeah I am finding my way slowly to deal with things....I understand what you guys are saying but at the same time the mind of a person with an eating disorder works quite different....I can drink some water and tell myself that Id rather go read or meditate, but when you feel the need to binge, or feel that you've made one little error in you eating pattern, your "disordered" self takes over..Its like Im in a trance and cant be stopped...binge and purge! but have been B/P free for 5 days now and intend to keep it that way for as long as I can!! sticking to strict stillman will help me for sure! thanks all!

06-03-2009, 07:02 PM	#12
tattoo_girl Junior LCF Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 26 Gallery: tattoo_girl Stats: 160/160/130 WOE: South Beach/Stillman mix up Start Date: March 2009	ps..artificial sweetners do set me off, and cause cravings so I tend to stear clear, but I find that stevia, if used sparingly, works well for me...its good to!

06-03-2009, 07:04 PM	#13
Remykins MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 1,033 Gallery: Remykins Stats: 125/120 WOE: Low carb, JUDDD Start Date: May 6th 2009	I had a eating disorder as well, that is part of why LC/high fat doesnt work as well, my metabolism and body are readjusting. Hang in there!

06-04-2009, 02:19 AM	#15
dizzyizzy Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 72 Gallery: dizzyizzy Stats: 189/176/132 WOE: Atkins/Stillman Start Date: May 2009	I am sick too. However my 12 step program and support group are helping me to overcome my illness, little by little, and it has been life changing. I feel I am slowly getting my life back. I get the same urges to go back to my old ways, but I am learning now. Is hard work but is absolutely worth it. I don't mean to preach or anything, just sharing what has worked for me, and I apologise if I sounded condescending on my post above or this one. Not the intention at all. Just sharing my thoughts that come from my own experience.

06-07-2009, 10:35 PM	#18
LustfortheMoment Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 470 Gallery: LustfortheMoment Stats: 194/167/140..... 5'7" WOE: "Modified" Stillman Start Date: 4-17-09	I probably eat between 900-1000 cal/day, Longstocking, but I never stop to count them. I find that my appetite is markedly diminished in ketosis. I recognize that many find 12 step programs such as AA, NA, OA, etc to be extraordinarily helpful. I'm probably too agnostic to subscribe, but I certainly know the power of faith. I'm from the religion of "whatever works" when it comes to weight loss...........