Will Stillmans put my body in Starvation Mode?

[Lori37]

Ok so I am on day 2 of stillmans. Yesterday my menu was by the books:

Breakfast : 2 hard boiled eggs
Lunch: baked cod and 1/2 cup cottage cheese
Dinner: same as above
Snack: hard boiled egg

My total calorie intake was under 600.
I also did 55 mins of cardio yesterday.

My question is...wont eating this small amount of calories put my body into starvation mode and slow down my metabolism? Or does that not happen since this diet is soo high in protein?
If anybody has any info let me know...I dont want to mess up my metabolism anymore then it already is.

And this killer headache is driving me NUTS!

[TracieN]

Your caloric intake is not even enough to allow your body to function...

Do you know what your BMR is? This # is the # of calories needed if all you didi was lay in bed all day, you seem to be an active person who is excersicing...

IMO you are doing more harm to your body my "starving it" than good.

[Lori37]

I was just following what I read on stillmans. I ate at each meal till I was satisfied. Didnt over eat. I guess I should eat more then? I was amazed when I put my food into fitday and the calories were THAT low.
I dunno what else to eat..stillmans is soo restrictive.
My calories are a little higher today, I am at almost 400 calories and havent had dinner or snacks yet. But its seirously looking like I wont get anywhere near 1000 calories. What else can I eat on stillmans? Lean meats, cottage cheese and eggs is all I have been having?

[Kimmer]

It will not put your body into Starvation Mode ... look at the people on Stillman's or water fasting (0 calories) who lose 25-35 pounds a month.

The minimum calorie theory is hype. If you want to test it, give it a shot. Don't faint when you get on the scale!

[moonstruck]

I don't think you can harm yourself since it's temporary. I mean, you probably won't be doing this for more than a month at a time, right?

I always share my mom's cottage cheese and tuna fish story. When I was a year old and my mother was 39, she ate nothing but a mixture of cottage cheese and tuna fish for a full thirty days and lost 28 pounds (she only had about 40 pounds to lose in the first place).

She had his book - that I think is out of print and just made her own concoction. She was so determined to get the weight off that it didn't matter to her what she ate.

[Lori37]

Thanks kimmer and stephanie. No I wont be doing this for very long. Actually only till new years eve, then I am gonna start adding salad back into my diet, and a lilttle later, the cheeses and other veggies. This is just a quick way to drop the water weight I gained on X mas. I will be doing this for a total of 4 days. If my results are REALLY good..then I may do this for one week a month or something to give me that extra nudge..BUT IT IS HARD! I miss cheese and salad! lol.


Stephanie- Actually I read that story aboutyour mom on another threat and that is kinda what convinced me to give it a shot. If I had the courage to do this for 30 days I totally would if it meant I was gonna lose that much or some where near that much! I know I cant do this long term right now...maybe when I finish school in feb! I am only able to do it this week because I dont have school ....school =too many temptations!

thanks gals.

[Diana]

Originally Posted by Kimmer

It will not put your body into Starvation Mode ... look at the people on Stillman's or water fasting (0 calories) who lose 25-35 pounds a month.

The minimum calorie theory is hype. If you want to test it, give it a shot. Don't faint when you get on the scale!

Trust me.... she knows her stuff!

[idioglossic]

Stillmans works fast if you can hang on...

[JONAH'S GRANNY]

You will be just fine. Just take the signals from your body if it gets to be too much. It took me about three weeks to realize I had to stop for awhile and up my calories.

[Lori37]

Thanks guys I will hang in there ....planning to do this till saturday then start adding veggies back in. So far its going great! I ate alot more yesterday and feel alot better today.

[Lori37]

lost 1.5lbs yesterday on day 2.
Its day 3 and i still have this horrible headache! I thought upping my calories yesterday would help it, but it hasnt. Who knows, it may be unrelated to diet. I am a massage therapist and I know that a tight muscle or misalignment can set off headaches...maybe I just need to find some one to give me a massage! lol. All I know is this headache is making it hard for me to go work out! lol.
Breakfast was turkey meat loaf 240 calories and 17 grams of fat...already more then I had my first day! Lol.

262 today...do you think I can make it to 260 or less by new years eve?

[Lisa Rae]

Starvation mode has been debated on here for Years! ( kimmer and I have been on the wrong end many a time on this one LOL)

I truly believe there is no magic calorie number for slowing ones metabolism. I also don't think it happens overnight..but is a processes that can take weeks or even months. I think since your doing Stillman's for such a short period..you absolutly don't need to worry. Our bodies are not the same..for me..when I go ultra low in calories..it only seems to show a loss for a few weeks..then stops. That's just me. Others have gone weeks or even months on Stillman's and continued to lose well.

As far as calories go..well Stillman's IS ultra low. If I remember correctly, on Stillman's you should be shooting for around 600-800 calores a day. If your exerciseing a lot..you might need to move towards the higher end, but really..let your body be your guide on this one. If you have enough energy, aren't dizzy or feeling weak..then I'd say your fine.

BTW, Congrats on day 2! Each day on Stillman's felt like a week of success on any other plan to me! (LOL)

[missclaudia]

I've now completed 4 @21 day water fasts, 6 @ 7 day fasts and a number of 2-3 day fasts. I record weight loss on a daily basis. In the interim I float between Stillman's and Kimmer's Protein Only (and every so often I eat badbadbad things like chocolate,potato chips and icecream).

Looking at the weight loss records, I notice that I lose exactly the same with each fast. I mean EXACTLY the same to the point where I can wake up on day 3 and think "Yep, one kilo" and one kilo it is. I'm currently at day 12 of water only and I haven't lost anything today, I didn't lose anything yesterday and I won't lose anything on day 13 either. However, on day 14 I'll drop 2kg.

If starvation mode is going to hit me, in all these water fasts, at what point will it hit?

Unless that's death. Now, that WOULD be real starvation mode.

[epix]

When ever I get into ketosis using stillmans I am super hungry one day before I reach ketosis. After that day I feel like I can go a long time without feeling hungry.

Try drinking lots of water if you are feeling hungry. Its a great appetite surpressor

Make sure you are getting the right amount of calories. Try to get in atleast 1500. It may seem like a lot on stillmans (it is!) but some beef can make up a large portion of those calories.

[missclaudia]

I've now completed 4 @21 day water fasts, 6 @ 7 day fasts and a number of 2-3 day fasts. I record weight loss on a daily basis. In the interim I float between Stillman's and Kimmer's Protein Only (and every so often I eat badbadbad things like chocolate,potato chips and icecream).

Looking at the weight loss records, I notice that I lose exactly the same with each fast. I mean EXACTLY the same to the point where I can wake up on day 3 and think "Yep, one kilo" and one kilo it is. I'm currently at day 12 of water only and I haven't lost anything today, I didn't lose anything yesterday and I won't lose anything on day 13 either. However, on day 14 I'll drop 2kg.

If starvation mode is going to hit me, in all these water fasts, at what point will it hit?

Unless that's death. Now, that WOULD be real starvation mode.

It seems to me that the science behind the whole notion of starvation mode is pretty imprecise (read: dodgy). It's true that reverse T3 goes through the roof on RCDs but most people convert enough T3 to counteract that. Serum leptin levels go down during RCD which, in the obese, brings their levels down to an equivalent of non-obese people. Leptin is thought to be the primary regulator of appetite and energy expenditure.

Starvation mode was floated as a theory before either T3 or leptin where known about. Science will eventually likely conclude that it doesn't happen until the last stages of starvation.

As far as the minimum calorie thing goes. When you show the "3500 cals expended equals one pound of fat lost" equation to an actuarial they say "The numbers don't run".

[Diana]

Originally Posted by Kimmer

It will not put your body into Starvation Mode ... look at the people on Stillman's or water fasting (0 calories) who lose 25-35 pounds a month.

The minimum calorie theory is hype. If you want to test it, give it a shot. Don't faint when you get on the scale!

I love Kimmer.... She knows her stuff, trust me

[idioglossic]

Stillmans works I am proof of that... how bad do you want it???? and I do agree about the lean steak.... I ate it almost everyday, twice a day...

[katieqr]

I lose no weight if I go too low in calories... I mean none... I have tried going 1000 cal and under a day and will lose nothing... and yes, Kimmer and others... I have tried it for weeks/months at a time and I have been extremely strict about counting and keeping track and I do not lose... I truly believe that if I did a water fast, it would take a long time for me to lose any weight... my body would fight me every step of the way..

I have to eat at least 1500 cals a day to lose... I am not doing low carb...more mod carb... I am PCOS and take 2000 mgs of Metformin a day and I lose very, very slowly...I have to fight for every ounce.

so, yes... I do believe in the starvation mode theory. My body has proved it to me.... I guess my metabolism is tough after the years of trying to lose and going up and down.

Again, as has been proven again and again on this board.... every body is different and what works for each is different.

[Lisa Rae]

Katie,

I just want to say thanks for posting! I know it can be hard to go against the grain on this one..I've been flamed more then once for saying the same thing

I can lose going under 1000 calories..but it seems to be for the very short term. When I do Atkins..I ate around 10x's my current weight and lost fine. Even when I was over 200..which drove many of the low-calorie folks up the wall (LOL) Even at 150..I seem to stop losing when I go below 1500...and yeah, I was stuck there for months not days or weeks. Only thing that seemed to work for me at that point was eating more..and exercising more...Then and only then did my body let me drop down below 150 ( and I was there for a long long time!)

I have said it before and I will continue to say, we are all individuals! So yeah, if your curious about a plan that is ultra low ( calories/carbs/whatever)..go for it..but also don't be hard-headed! If it isn't working for you, concider that low-calories ( or again..low whatever) may not be the best plan for YOU!

[katieqr]

Logically, it goes against everything to say... Hey... I starve myself and I don't lose weight..." Cause it is LOGICAL THAT IF YOU DON'T EAT MANY CALORIES.. YOU WILL LOSE WEIGHT...I sat in my doctor's office crying saying why, why, why... am I not losing... I am only eating 800 calories a day and I lose maybe, a half a pound in two months? That is exactly what I was doing too, folks... I KNOW.. it sounds crazy...

so, I found out... by refusing to give up and believe me there are many times I want to... that I had to exercise.... and eat to support that exercise and then I will lose, if I am lucky, a half a pound to a pound a week.

that is just the fact of life for me... You don't know how I wish I could just go on Stillmans, or strict induction or something similar, (AGAIN) and drop the half a pound a day that so many here seem to do. Cause believe me... if it would get this weight off... I would try it again in a minute... but, it simply did not work for me...

Wanting it bad enough was not the issue for me... I was/am the most dedicated and strict dieter there is... I am DETERMINED TO BE A NORMAL SIZE..... everyone around me is amazed at my dedication and could not beleive I was not dropping weight left and right... they saw what I ate and how much I exercised.... and the weight was not budging...

so, please folks... as Lisa Rae said... if you can handle the extremly low calorie/no carb plans and it works for you, great... but don't beat yourself up if it don't work for you... work until you find what does work for you...

[Lisa Rae]

Katie,

I just want to add...you think your so alone in how you lose...but your not. When a debate came-up several years ago..and I got jumped on big time (LOL I've learned to have a thick skin..as when I used to get flamed..I would take it so personally I would cry) I can't even begin to tell you how many pm's I got saying they experiences the same thing..but we're afraid to post. It gave me strength to keep posting..yet was very frustrating being the only one who would.

I think many many people do well keeping calories low....I am in no way saying it doesn't work for many. Theres also plenty of room for us low-carbers that choose a diffrent path. I'd much rather lose 1/2 lb a week, feed my body and be healthy..vs. going ultra low in anything and not being able to do it long-term. I always say, I lost very slow..yet..I did hit goal. My favorite quote is still:

"This is not a race, but a way of life"

So for those of us who are in the same boat..Keep posting! It always makes rowing the boat a lot easier when your not rowing alone Even if others don't post and agree with you..they are reading and learning from each of our stories.. YOURS is as important as anyones!!

[katieqr]

I have learned that I am not alone... but, it is so frustrating and heartbreaking and discouraging to see the "I lost 6 pounds in five days on Stillmans or Induction!"

Or to see other posters say things such as "If you want it bad enough.." or "don't pass out when you see the scale..." by going extremely low calorie...

Kimmer, you are one of the ones I respect the most on this board, so please... I don't mean that in a condesending or critical way, as I know that was in your earlier post on this thread... I am in complete awe of what you accomplished... and I tried copying and doing everything you said worked for you... and sadly... it did not work for me... but, there are many many times I know you are exactly right in your advice.

Now that said... There are other PCOS women on this board that have lost alot of weight and I admire them so much... And I have lost about 50 pounds from my highest weight over a period of years... Notice I said years.... I have about 50 more to go..

It is a battle I am determined to win... I just have accepted that for whatever, reason I was not given the metabolism to lose weight fast... no matter how few calories or carbs I eat.

And like Lisa Rae said again... there are others like me and her.. please don't get discouraged... but keep trying...

[sweet&sugarfree]

I have The Doctor's Quick Inches Off Book and he talks alot about is is safe to lose pounds rapidly. His answer is a definate, yes it is safe. As for calories, the question was asked:
Q: Is it necessary to limit calorie intake to under 1000 calories a day in order to lose weight?
A: No-on some of my quick wieght loss diets you can lose pounds rapidly yet eat 1300- 2500 calories daily (depending on your height) of permitted protein foods.

Hope this helps.

Book info The Doctor's Quick Inches Off Diet, Dr. Irwin Maxwell Stillman, Samm Sinclair Dell Publishing, 1969

[missclaudia]

Katie food for thought, vis: I don't lose weight on anything at all on food. Stillman's, Atkins, Meat/Egg, no carbs, high cal/low cal - any combination you can think of I've tried. I never lose a pound.

I wonder if there's a yet unidentified biological condition that prevents weight loss involving food. From what I've read about mice, a certain type (db/ob) have a propensity towards leptin receptors (receptors release fat from adipocytes as energy) turning off and at extreme levels of obesity, disappear completely.

What might be currently called "starvation mode" and it's attendant assumption about "metabolic slowdown" may have something to do with the little understood role of leptin.

The equation "less food, more weight loss" does not bear out in mice with a leptin irregularity. In those mice, less food means no difference. In other mice, more food equals greater weight loss. Theses are mice with very low levels of serum leptin.

The underlying assumption of both your and lisarae's position is that RCDs cause a slower metabolism ergo slower weight loss. I've looked and I've looked and cannot find any credible research to support this nor can I find the description of the biological process to support such a notion.

I wonder though, as you say katie, each of us have very different metabolisms and as such may respond to different regimes. I can fully sympathise with your plight of sitting in a doctor's office and not being believed that you're eating almost nothing and still not losing weight. It's crushing.

[oow-woo]

I'm going to 'go out on a limb here'--I always think that the term "starvation mode" hits a nerve with some folks. What I think may be a more understandable term would be 'metabolic slowdown'. Here is just one of many articles on this subject:

BTW Katieqr-- I've tried Atkins, Stillmans etc....very low calorie, tons of water, etc..... I've been eating sooo clean for the last 7 years (started in '99). I've only dropped about 8-10 lbs--no kidding. I exercise til I can wring my clothes out. Some of us really DO have a devil of a time losing even a .5 lb. I have Hashimoto's which I believe contributes to my lack of wt. loss.


Dieting and the Metabolic Slowdown

Metabolic slowdown when dieting

Metabolic slowdown will happen to everyone on a calorie reduced diet. This also includes people on a low-carb diet as the net effect of the low-carb is also a calorie reduced intake. A slow metabolism is often the reason why dieters experience a sticking point in their weight loss results, but why and how does a slow metabolism occur and how can we reduce the effects?

The biggest mistake many dieters make is cutting calories too much too soon. With an overwhelming desire to lose weight quickly they start dieting with the attitude that cutting calories more would result in shedding more fat from the body stores. This is a major mistake and the reason why weight is gained back soon after dieting. This practice always leads to a metabolic slowdown as the body tries to conserve energy. Glycogen stores become depleted and the body must oxidize protein more regularly to account for a severe calorie reduction. Both processes cause the body to lose water, thus weight is lost quickly but unfortunately, more than 90 percent will come from lean tissue.

Reducing metabolic slowdown
No matter how you lose weight there will always be some amount of metabolic slowdown. The trick is to limit the slowing of your metabolism as much as possible. The best policy to ensure a lower metabolic slowdown is to work out your present calorie intake and reduce it by 15 percent. The body will recognise and react to a smaller deficit by oxidising (burning) more fat. In general a calorie reduction greater than 15 percent will lead to bigger metabolic slowdown, making fat loss more difficult. To be safe never consume fewer calories than your resting metabolism.


An example using the quick method for estimating maintenance calorie requirement

A female weighing 200 pounds!

Maintenance of present weight = 15 - 16 calories per lb. of bodyweight

200 x 15 = 3000 calories per day.

Reduce by 15% - 3000 x 0.85 = 2550.

The female in the example above roughly requires a diet wit a total of 2550 calories per day. This is only a rough guide based on body weight. Other factors such as age, sex, body composition and activity levels should be included in order to work out an accurate calorie requirement.

Work out your calorie requirement more accurately here -- NOTE! I would suggest using the Harris-Benedict equation, then multiply the number by your appropriate activity multiplier!

No matter how you work out your daily calorie requirements just remember the 15 percent rule and you will lose weight and limit a slowdown in your metabolism. You may only lose up to 2 pounds each week but at least it will be fat loss, the best way to gradually reveal your taught, muscular body underneath!

Carol

[Jackielbrown04]

I am one of those who has to eat to lose. I cant starve myself or my body holds on to what it has for dear life. I cycle my carbs and calories and it seems to work well for me. I would never go as low as 500 cals a day, that is just lain dangerous IMO