Dr. Stillmans vs. Dr Atkins. Who to believe?

[Catheryn]

I just finished the Stillmans book, and it was so interesting to see the differences in both diets. Dr. Stillman claims that Atkins diet is way too high in fat to achieve permanent weight loss. He really puts down Dr. Atkins in his book. He advocates extremely low calorie, and says that you need to eliminate all fats to lose weight. His diet is very low carb, just lean meats, eggs, and little cottage cheese. Where Dr. Atkins says that cottage cheese is not acceptable on Induction because of the high carb count. Who do you believe anymore?

[doxielvr]

I have done Stillmans (back in the 1970's!) and lost weight like crazy but felt awful. It was so constipating that I felt like I needed dynamite I can no longer stick with just eating protein, and I don't think it's particularly good for you to do for more than a few days.

[Kimmer]

You can have cottage cheese on Stillman's because that's pretty much your only carb source.

Stillman's was written in the 70s when fat was "bad", so I'd take those comments with a grain of salt.

Take a look at this BB. Who are the 'stallers'? Those who eat too many carbs (bars or veggies, sugar is sugar), but believe that being "shockingly unafraid of fat" is license to indulge in cheesecake, too much cheese, whipped cream desserts, etc. That was not Dr. A's intent.

So, it depends on how you do your diet. If you stick to protein, leafy greens and just enough fat to make it work, you'll do fine on Atkins. If, as some people post, you're looking for a diet where you can eat "a lot", then you'll lose slowly ... if at all ... on Atkins.

Stillman's has a place in low carb, but the choices can be too limited for most people. The weight loss results are dramatic, however. (Original plan, not the BB variety).

[Catheryn]

Originally posted by Kimmer


Stillman's was written in the 70s when fat was "bad", so I'd take those comments with a grain of salt.

Dr. Atkins book was also written in 1972. They were written at the same time.

[Kimmer]

Yes, I know. But the general consensus in the 70s was that Dr. Atkins was off his rocker ... to put it mildly. Dr. Stillman's comments reflect the general belief at the time.

If you do Atkins correctly, your fat intake shouldn't be "large". Meats, poultry, fish ... some butter, cheese, olive oil.

It's your choice how you want to lose ... and how you decide to work the program.

[JONAH'S GRANNY]

In my opinion, Stillman is good for short term and very effective. To me it would be too restrictive to do for the rest of my life. The Atkins WOE is much more livable and one that I, personally, can live with. The bottom line is to lose the excess weight and keep it off.

[Catheryn]

I think it's too bad that Dr. A doesn't stress that in his book. He makes it sound like you can eat all the fat you want, and still lose weight. We all know that this is just not true.

[flowerpower]

Stillman's diet is a good plan to jumpstart any lowcarb diet. In addition to Kimmer's comments, I also believe it helps to be very, very limited in your food choices in the beginning. The diet will put your body into ketosis quickly.

Another decent way to get quickly into ketosis is a 1-2 day meat fast. Just lean meats and eggs, some seasoning - nothing else for a couple of days.

These are good plans if someone has been off-plan for awhile - such as a long vacation or the holiday binge type stuff. It gets a person back into the strict lowcarb mindset quickly.

When you choices are so limited on a plan such as Stillman's - it prevents dieters from looking for substitutions for the stuff that contributed to their weight gain in the first place.

I don't believe in a plan like Stillman's for the long haul with weight loss though.

For a lean version of lowcarb - check out Lean For Life - it's a wonderful plan!

Our lowcarb KISS plan is also great for strict weightloss. KISS basically includes real meats (nothing processed like ham), unlimited low - med carb veggies, seasonings, and some olive oil, mayo, and sometimes butter.

Let me know if anyone wants links to the meat fast guidelines, Lean For Life, of KISS - another great plan.

[Catheryn]

Can you post a link to lean for life? I think I'm done with the high fat way of life.

[Marbel]

Originally posted by Kimmer


Stillman's has a place in low carb, but the choices can be too limited for most people. The weight loss results are dramatic, however. (Original plan, not the BB variety).

What's the BB variety?

[LoriWants2Lose]

I do Stillman's to knock me back into Ketosis quickly. Right now, I'm on it for two days until I get into deep purple on my sticks and then I'm going to start adding 5 g of carbs a day and see where my best level is.

I know a lot of people who go back and forth between Stillman's and Atkins. You will lose weight faster, but I can't stick to it long term--at least the very strict phase of it. I know it has different phases like Atkins

[GardenMom]

He advocates extremely low calorie, and says that you need to eliminate all fats to lose weight.>>>

IMO, any plan you do needs fat...we need it for our organs, joints, etc etc

[roro]

i dont think stillmans is healthy. way too much protein. and cutting out veggies completely is not good. also, stillmans allows ketchup which is basically sugar. cottage cheese is not bad, at least it doesnt have sugar, but ketchup does. I can see how someone can get way more than 20 carbs in a day with the ketchup and cottage cheese. so the number of carbs is not the issue here. whats healthier, tons of ketchup, or 20 carbs of green leafy veggies?

I go by the protein power guidelines for protein. I think some people on atkins get way too little or way too much. "eat until full and not stuffed" does not work for everyone. if you dont get enough protein, then your body is going to burn your muscles, if you eat too much, excess gets turned into glucose, and it can put a strain on your kidneys if you have existing kidney problems, which a lot of people do, and dont know it.

so if your getting the right amount of protein, that is only very few calories. for me its about 400 calories. that is not even enough for basal requirements. veggies dont add much calories. so the extra calories have to come from fat.

now there are some people who are severely metabolic resistant who stillmans works for. i know someone who ONLY loses when she does stillmans. she does stillmans for a week, loses, then goes back to atkins for a week or two and maintains. but she stays very low calories, so may not be getting excess protein.

my theory is, if you ate the proper amount of protein, 20 carbs of green veggies, and then enough fat to make up the minimum number of calories you need, you would lose just as good as if on stillman's, probably better, and it would be healthier.

[flowerpower]

This is a website I put together with some basic information on getting started on Lean For Life:

http://www.geocities.com/lajenner/leanforlife.html

The real site is at www.leanforlife.com

You'll find more information on the Lean For Life bulletin board on this website.

[Catheryn]

Roro, Stillman puts a limit on catsup. 1 teaspoon. I agree about the catsup and the ****tail sauce. I dont get why he includes these 2 items. At the same time, he severely limits lemon juice to less than 1 t. I wish I understood the dynamics behind his reasoning.

[kdog41]

Originally posted by Catheryn
Dr. Stillman claims that Atkins diet is way too high in fat to achieve permanent weight loss.

Oh yes, Atkins is definitely too high in fat to achieve permanent weight loss.

[BFL Chick]

Originally posted by Catheryn
I think it's too bad that Dr. A doesn't stress that in his book. He makes it sound like you can eat all the fat you want, and still lose weight. We all know that this is just not true.

Well, you can have a lot of fat and lose a lot. On fat fast, one eats mostly fats and most ppl lose around 3 lbs per day. I think the most important things to watch out for are carbs and cals, not fat grams per se.

[bluesmoke]

The "we all know " statement about high fat being bad goes against all the scientific evidence of the last few years. There have been over 12 studies comparing a high fat diet (Atkins) to a low fat one in the last 3 years and the high fat diet was superior in every way in every case. "Everybody knows" is not equivalent to scientific proof. Approximately 2/3 of the calories in an Atkins program should come from fat until maintenence. Nyah Levi

[Catheryn]

Originally posted by BFL Chick
Well, you can have a lot of fat and lose a lot. On fat fast, one eats mostly fats and most ppl lose around 3 lbs per day.

On the fat fast, the calories are severely limited. You dont eat 3000 calories of fat and still lose.

[LoriWants2Lose]

Good points everyone. 3 lbs. a day! While I want the weight gone, that fast scares me cause I don't want too much loose skin. Also, there is the emotional part of dealing with becoming thinner. Believe it or not all that fat has a sort of protective quality I think I'll stick with my 2 or 3 lbs a week. I'm pretty comfortable with that and can have a few things here and there like berries a couple of times a week or a SF candy bar once every other week or so. If it slows, I'll cut those things out completely.

Lors

[GardenMom]

Also, there is the emotional part of dealing with becoming thinner. >>>

You are very wise, I lost my weight slowly and it was/is still an adjustment, for my husband also.

[GaryPenna]

I could have sworn Stillman pre-dated Atkins by at least four or five years. I remember being in first or second grade and hearing aunts and their friends talking about being on Stillman (a.k.a. the water diet.) This would have been about 1968. I went on it for short periods years later myself, and I thought it was always intended as a short term plan.

[Ethansmommy]

Interesting conversation. If Atkins believes that the Fat Fast is the most effective way to melt resistant fat (using a calorie limit) and Stillmans is at the other end of the spectrum...I have never done Stillmans (lost too well on Atkins)-is there a calorie requirment? Then is it a matter of one's specific metabolism?

I mean I am an Atkins girl, but very interested in hearing from people who have done both and their opinions.

pam

[Catheryn]

Pam, this is my point exactly. Stilllman created his diet in 1969, and then Atkins came out with his first book in 1972. Both diets are extremely low carb. That, they agreed on. But, Stillman is also no fat at all. He also doesn't allow fruits and veggies. So his mainstay of the diet is lean meat, eggs, fish, and poultry. He does allow small amounts of LOWFAT cottage cheese, and SF jello. Where as Atkins is high fat, low carb. The question is, if both diets are effective, WHY? How can this be?

[kbgardengirl]

Originally posted by Catheryn
Pam, this is my point exactly. Stilllman created his diet in 1969, and then Atkins came out with his first book in 1972. Both diets are extremely low carb. That, they agreed on. But, Stillman is also no fat at all. He also doesn't allow fruits and veggies. So his mainstay of the diet is lean meat, eggs, fish, and poultry. He does allow small amounts of LOWFAT cottage cheese, and SF jello. Where as Atkins is high fat, low carb. The question is, if both diets are effective, WHY? How can this be?

I did the Stillman diet when it first came out many moons ago. I lost weight. Why. Because there were very few foods you could eat (meat, eggs, salad, sf jello, cottage cheese). It doesn't take long to get tired of eating from such few choices so you just eat only enough to survive. Your calories are drastically cut so of course you lose. It worked but definitely not enough variety to continue on the diet for very long.

[tiva]

Catheryn--Stillmans is effective because it's extremely low in calories. Atkins is effective because it uses different metabolic pathways, allowing you to eat 300-400 calories a day more than low-calorie diets, while still losing weight at equal or greater weights. A person can lose weight in lots of different ways. But fat, vegetables, and fruits supply many nutritional benefits that lean protein (or supplements) alone cannot supply. You can't live on Stillmans forever without harming your health; you can live on Atkins forever without harming your health (but not on induction).

And before someone says the Inuit lived on meat alone, that doesn't prove Stillmans is safe. The Inuit ate many parts of sea mammals (particularly the tallow from around the kidneys, and walrus eyeballs ) that contain a great deal of vitamins and fat. Lean protein is much less nutritionally balanced and healthy than what the Inuit ate!

[Kimmer]

Originally posted by Catheryn
Pam, this is my point exactly. Stilllman created his diet in 1969, and then Atkins came out with his first book in 1972. Both diets are extremely low carb. That, they agreed on. But, Stillman is also no fat at all. He also doesn't allow fruits and veggies. So his mainstay of the diet is lean meat, eggs, fish, and poultry. He does allow small amounts of LOWFAT cottage cheese, and SF jello. Where as Atkins is high fat, low carb. The question is, if both diets are effective, WHY? How can this be?

They are both effective because they both SEVERELY limit carbs (the '72 version anyway).

You will lose FASTER with Stillman than with Atkins because the lack of fat means fewer calories. Dr. Atkins said, "There's no doubt that you will lose MORE and FASTER on 1500 cal 10 carb than 2000 cal 10 carb ..."

BTW, Stillman's doesn't have a calorie limit. In the book he mentions what he figures the daily calorie intake to be, on average. With Stillman's (and at least original Atkins), you hit ketosis and don't want to eat ... that dramatically lowers your calories, particularly since it's low fat low carb.

Dr. Atkins "metabolic advantage" doesn't have anything to do with the higher fat intake, it's the severely restricted carbs. He is comparing the 'advantage' over high cal low carb (Weight Watchers), not Stillman's. Stillman's also has the metabolic advantage which is why people lose very quickly on the original plan (not the BB version with the FF cheese desserts).

[bluesmoke]

Kimmer, I think you are misinterpreting the Atkins books. Both they and the web site recommend a high percentage of total calories be fat. They also recommend not dropping calories too low. The metabolic advantage does come from restricting carbs, but the dietary fat is recommended as a substitute fuel for the carbs. Nyah Levi.

[Berry_blossoms]

I think you need to find what works for you
For me I use Atkins but have done stillmans to jumpstart and stir things up a bit. I think both Doctors have good points and great ideas but for my body I find that a combo of things help.