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Old 06-02-2015, 03:33 PM   #1
KetogenicGurl
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CHRONIC KIDNEY DISEASE & Ketogenic Diet

Hello, new member here. I am a CKD Stage 3b lady using Nutritional Ketosis to maintain health and for needed weightloss.

I began LCHF Feb 1, with a sole kidney, having lost one to cancer in 2010, but am cancer free; and now just a feisty, mouthy. crone-in-training.

I have been eating meat all along, mostly chicken, and it was part of my LC diet. But an annual renal blood panel showed a further drop in my already low kidney function. As many people don't know CKD is SILENT, but unlike HBP..there is NO medicine, no fix. We must supply our body with the right foods and nutrients, and let it support kidney function.

Knowing as much as i do about the dangers of CKD and eventual dialysis for many--I panicked and did some research and found that a lower protein, all plant based diet might be best for me.

I switched, keeping eggs, full fat dairy, butter, cheeses, HWC and adding hemp seed protein to my diet. I found a purest level of hemp seed/brown rice protein for daily shakes, and also bought raw organic hulled hemp seeds (imported from Canada.) Also pumpkin seeds and almonds are good, as well as most nuts and seeds- chia, macadamia, brazil.

ONLY veggies grown in remineralized soils have the right levels of nutrients as listed by the USDA. So a regular factory farmed spinach does NOT have the correct % as shown. It costs more to buy organic/local, but i'd rather eat 1Cup, than 26 cups to get all my nutrients!

++++++++++++
I retired and sold my online bookstore in 2009 after, a head on collision, kidney cancer, some other ER surgeries, and a small stroke in 2013 have left me less strong or able to be exercising; doing yardwork. I walk 365 days a year- usually a mile+ with my old puppy, and just got a rebounder trampoline to help with lymph health, and exercise. I gave up on home remodel projects and deep gardening.

I am learning daily, and feel fortunate to be able to use my Ketobrain energy for medical research, reading all the novels and scifi books I want, and appreciating being alive! CKD can be kept at bay only with contentious effort and good nutrition…so I am doing my best, and look forward to learning more and sharing what I know here.

There is NO CKD group I can find, outside a kidney chat portion of Reddit. Many people (like 20 Million!) don't know they are at risk or in Stage 3-4 until an emergency occurs. Not a good time to suddenly turn the problem around.
"Let food be your medicine"- Hippocrates..this old dude knew something!
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:49 AM   #2
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Hi, KG. I'm glad you are taking good care of yourself. Are you able to do some container gardening? I grow organic, heirloom herbs and some vegs that way.

How nice you have the rebounder. They really do help. I enjoy the gentle jumping and knowing my cells are getting stronger.

I am sorry that you got hit with such rough health challenges. I am sending you good thoughts and wishes for healing.
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:16 PM   #3
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Hugs to you...are you on the kidney transplant list?

It seems like you are doing all you can do.
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:26 PM   #4
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Hi AuntieEm..thank you…I am so happy to meet other people on LONG TERM LVC..like yourself!! what is your daily carb limit? any special 'tricks'?

I just started testing my blood after eating various foods. I have been hesitant giving up sweet taste…so I do use Stevia, Swerve, Truvia (Dr Bernstein says most AS will trigger insulin)

So I am cutting back a bit. The Stevia with maltodextrose was just too much "sugar"…so I use the liquid, or the plain green powder only. I am using erithyrol but plan to slowly cut back..if I go too far, too fast, I won't be as consistent.

I don't need to "cheat" or plan to "cheat"

I tested how much my BS jumped after two different foods. 1. 6C Orville's popcorn with oil, and cheese sprinkles raised it only 6 pts. (30+carbs) 2. A FiberOne bar (3 boxes still in the cupboard) with 16 gr carb, 7S, 7P bumped it 45 points…so that was a good lesson.
REAL food is always the better choice.

I gave away a TON of food over the last 2 months, but kept basic emergency supplies..we are in an isolated community, one road in for supplies, so quakes etc can cut us off. Soup, rice, pasta, tuna can stay for years, and at least can be bartered for veggies if needed.

Lastly I LIVE by the motto " it's not what happens to you..it is how you DEAL with it that matters"…as an enthusiastic Gurl this works for me. I'm grateful to survive the car wreck, the cancer, stroke and all the rest.
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:35 PM   #5
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Hi KG My P, F, C amounts are in my signature. My carbs are usu. 25-35. I count half the fiber. Ten of those carbs are in my supplements. I don't do well if I go too far under or over that range. I don't use any AS except whole leaf stevia, and not much of that. I am concerned about disturbance of intestinal flora. I tried erythritol and it make me really ill. Intestinal flora is 70% of our immune system. I agree about eating real food.

Yes, giving away food. I've done that several times, each time a get stricter with my food plan.

I wish you much joy and perfect healing.
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:35 PM   #6
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Hi Carolyn….NO transplant needed..I may get to the big finale with no need for it. while there are 500K on dialysis in the US, and 100,000 wanting and needing a transplant these are very ill people who have no option BUT dialysis and transplant.

You can live with as little as 5% function, and one kidney is all that is needed to survive anyway. But since mine is already doing poorly I wasn't willing to just accept it failing without trying.

Sorry if I made it sound worse that it is for me. But ALL the docs tell you it is a one way trip down, as kidney function drops, they say NO diet can help, so this can scare you enough to do something. The 'something is just taking control of health, and allowing the body to support the kidney/s.

But many people would rather eat all the meat they want, and hope science makes it better by the time they need dialysis…an artificial kidney or magic drug…but RECENTLY two MAJOR multi BILLION dollar trials of a drug, (it was killing Stage 4 patients) and a unique "neo-kidney failed - went to bankruptcy…so you can't count on that.
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:38 PM   #7
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Auntie M..I saw "50ish.. and thought AGE… hahahah silly me!Now I will read people's sigs' a bit closer!!
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Old 06-03-2015, 08:35 PM   #8
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Thanks for answering my question. We have a friend who is diabetic on dialysis and just got approved to be on the list. He is 62, so who knows?

My cat has kidney concerns and I put a phosphorus binder in his food. He never notices it. I wonder if people use it, too.

Bless you and praying that you will continue to discover healthy ways to eat.
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Old 06-04-2015, 12:24 AM   #9
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phosphorous is a big issue for dialysis and CKD…blockers and drugs and messing with the body's balance get complex.

Does you friend want a transplant? is he ready to be off of dialysis?

I've spent some time on a dialysis site and so many people on D say they won't take the chance, all the drugs after, and limits, so I was surprised. Issues with living donors are huge, and I was not happy to learn somethings.

I wish that cadaver options were much stronger, if people only know how much is asked of a living donor..for LIFE, after their gift, it's not all good, it might be better to support a person to donate their organs as needed after death.

with 100,000 wanting a transplant and a strict laws, and influx of 3rd world offers from desperate people it is a sad situation.

the more I learned about the US GOv system and profit centers for Dialysis I was really motivated to try and avoid it at all costs. I wide I didn't know this stuff.
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Old 06-04-2015, 06:29 AM   #10
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Even though he is on disability and only mows lawns in the summer, he finds it very limiting, but feels so much better on it, of course. He was told it would be a 2-3year wait once he started dialysis and was willing to take an older kidney, too.

As you know he had to go through a myriad of tests for the rest of his body parts. A lady in our church had one and is doing very well. She is meticulous in following the instructions.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:24 PM   #11
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Carolyn, I am so glad to hear that!!…no one wants to lose freedom and independence of movement and schedule..but I see a few people who actually travel the world on D…so it depends on each person.

Me, I am already a book worm, and if i needed to be on D I'd be happy to tuck in and read as much as I wanted…. it really show you come to 'accept' what must be accepted…and having a strong faith helps immeasurably.
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Old 06-05-2015, 06:11 AM   #12
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Exactly. Tony watches tv most of the day anyway, so he just does it at the dialysis center.
He and nurse sister go to our church, so he is also accepting of what may lie ahead for him.

Best wishes and prayers for you during your journey to health. I listen to podcasts a lot on the benefits of ketogenic/low carb diets, so that is encouraging. Jimmy Moore has some excellent experts on his show.
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Old 06-08-2015, 07:04 PM   #13
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Protein Shakes with Almond Milk & Blueberries

I am just loving my unsweet almond milk for 'breaking' the day's fast..I have butter coffee at noonish..then am not hungry til 3-4. I also have 1 tbl of MCT oil daily for quick energy, the butter in my coffee is for satiety over time.

Depending on my errands and schedule I will make a shake using my 1970s avocado colored blender..and take it with me, or have when I get home.

OK..in Coping with Kidney Disease Dr. Walser, a genius researcher who worked at Johns Hopkins for 45 years into his 80s proposed that anyone with CKD should lower protein consumption..the sicker you are the less protein.

But <40 gr a day you need to supplement with essential amino acids..and he worked with a scientist to develop a powder AA that is easy to incude, tastes decent, and keeps you from wasting heart and other muscles with too low of protein.

The dietitian in my VA nutrition group was pushing 'greens' in our shakes, and I love adding spinach or kale, even romaine lettuce. they bulk it up and there is no 'salad taste"

Today I used:
unsweet almond milk or Flaxseed milk 25 calories a cup! 1 carb
1/4 cup frozen blueberries--always buy them frozen 4 carbs
1 scoop Amino Acids by Calwood Nutritionals- 4 gr protein
1/2 scoop (1 heaping tbl) of Warrior Force hemp protein powder-8 gr P
liquid stevia for sweetness
1/4 tsp orange flavor (waiting for my Netrition Capella flavors to arrive!)
1 cup washed spinach
blend for ~2 minutes.

nice and thick and frosty!

Some days I make a double batch using 3 cups almond milk and double everything else, blend well, and leave half in the blender in the fridge for later.

My daily protein is at 30 gr, and I use the AAs daily.

So for dinner I make a huge bowl of steamed veggies with bone broth, or large salad with mayo & balsamic vinegar, a scrambled egg with mushrooms and sour cream, or a crustless quiche using eggs and hulled hemp seeds. I am expanding my repertoire with ricing cauliflower to make a cheesy breadstick with marinara dipping sauce, and other recipes.

Last edited by KetogenicGurl; 06-08-2015 at 07:10 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:45 PM   #14
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Keto for CKD

I just came across this after another search of the internet. I have CKD 3 and have stayed at that level since 2011. I have been trying so many different ways of eating. It's so hard to know what to do. I have read Dr. Bernstein's two books and so many internet articles my head is hurting :-) I was researching Dr. Mobb's testing on mice with keto diet when I found your post.

At the end of 2011 I went from gfr of 39 to 51. I was doing Dr. Bernstein's diet but no meat - just vegetarian products and vegetables. I had major changes at work, began eating out too much and slipped back to eating too many carbs. At one point I dropped to 28 gfr and was told to return in 3 weeks to decide if I was to be placed on dialysis. I have been able to get back up to 36 gfr and stayed for 6 month.

I'm not sure if it was low carb, or limiting meat/protein that took me back up to 51 gfr. I decided to keep carbs at Dr. Bernstein's suggested level and no meat like before. I don't get tested until next month.

Do you recommend any books on how to do a keto diet? I haven't been able to figure out exactly what and how much I can eat. Just that fat is number one.

I hope this thread continues. I have been doing all this experimentation alone.
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:05 PM   #15
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I was in ketosis when I passed my first kidney stone. I had 4 total episodes of passing stones with the last one needing surgery. My medical records now say that I have a chronic kidney disease.

I did a lot of reading and read that a low carb diet can be dehydrating which can lead to kidney stones if enough water is not taken in. I also found out that I was eating high oxalate foods (which cause calcium kidney stones) such as tomatoes, kale, spinach, chocolate, tomatoes,etc.

My urologist told me to eat less than 6 ounces of meat a day and drink at least 100 ounces of water daily. I actually try to eat 3 ounces of meat daily and I don't eat many eggs since they raise my cholesterol.

As a result, I do not eat an Atkins type diet. I have added some legumes and oatmeal to my diet. I still have a low carb diet compared to what I was eating before but not low enough to keep me in ketosis. I have maintained a 50 pound weight loss but I haven't been able to drop the last 30 pounds.
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Old 10-19-2017, 02:05 PM   #16
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Wondered how you were doing.... guess I am in the same spot now..........
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:41 PM   #17
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Hi, Sweetpoison!
Are you passing kidney stones? What is going on with you?
Its been over a year since my last stone was surgically removed.
I have had to change my diet. Less than 6 ounces of meat
a day, 100 ounces of water and low oxalate foods. I have added a few higher oxalate foods recently and Im hoping I won’t be sorry! I dont do a low carb diet like Atkins any longer.

How can I help you? Trying Low Oxalates on FB was a lifesaver!
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:55 PM   #18
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How are you doing?



Quote:
Originally Posted by K8Ginger View Post
I just came across this after another search of the internet. I have CKD 3 and have stayed at that level since 2011. I have been trying so many different ways of eating. It's so hard to know what to do. I have read Dr. Bernstein's two books and so many internet articles my head is hurting :-) I was researching Dr. Mobb's testing on mice with keto diet when I found your post.

At the end of 2011 I went from gfr of 39 to 51. I was doing Dr. Bernstein's diet but no meat - just vegetarian products and vegetables. I had major changes at work, began eating out too much and slipped back to eating too many carbs. At one point I dropped to 28 gfr and was told to return in 3 weeks to decide if I was to be placed on dialysis. I have been able to get back up to 36 gfr and stayed for 6 month.

I'm not sure if it was low carb, or limiting meat/protein that took me back up to 51 gfr. I decided to keep carbs at Dr. Bernstein's suggested level and no meat like before. I don't get tested until next month.

Do you recommend any books on how to do a keto diet? I haven't been able to figure out exactly what and how much I can eat. Just that fat is number one.

I hope this thread continues. I have been doing all this experimentation alone.
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammy G View Post
Hi, Sweetpoison!
Are you passing kidney stones? What is going on with you?
Its been over a year since my last stone was surgically removed.
I have had to change my diet. Less than 6 ounces of meat
a day, 100 ounces of water and low oxalate foods. I have added a few higher oxalate foods recently and Im hoping I won’t be sorry! I dont do a low carb diet like Atkins any longer.

How can I help you? Trying Low Oxalates on FB was a lifesaver!
I am attempting to figure out my diet.... yes.....not Atkins. Its alot to try and understand.... I have increased my water intake...... still not enough I am sure but I am working on it.... just worried day and night.... YES... I needed a wake up call... but not this type... I needed one I could have reversed.... that is not the case with this. I passed a stone maybe 8 years ago.... none since that I am aware of.
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Old 10-23-2017, 03:58 PM   #20
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No kidney stones but kidney disease? Did your doctor give you specifics? I am so sorry you are going through this !

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetpoison View Post
I am attempting to figure out my diet.... yes.....not Atkins. Its alot to try and understand.... I have increased my water intake...... still not enough I am sure but I am working on it.... just worried day and night.... YES... I needed a wake up call... but not this type... I needed one I could have reversed.... that is not the case with this. I passed a stone maybe 8 years ago.... none since that I am aware of.
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Old 10-24-2017, 06:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammy G View Post
No kidney stones but kidney disease? Did your doctor give you specifics? I am so sorry you are going through this !
Specifics are that I am 64...... with a 1.10 creatitine level and that gave me a egfr of 50 which is considered stage 3a chronic kidney desease (I hate even typing that word). Looking back on my blood work my egfr has been up and down between 60 and 50 which means its been around awhile...... Doc is just advising I clean up my act - diet and try to eat healthy... lose weight... lower blood pressure. Which is all good... but reading the internet gave the basic info look at this and is upsetting.

I have a great doc... been with him along time... but he also is the type that tries not to upset you if not needed. I dont think he is giving me the whole picture.....
I know kidney function declines with age.... but this started back when I was around 50.... that is not old age. If it was just dropping to this degree starting at the age I am now I would not be as upset. Although the rest of my blood work is well within limits.... still driving me crazy .
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammy G View Post
Hi, Sweetpoison!
Are you passing kidney stones? What is going on with you?
Its been over a year since my last stone was surgically removed.
I have had to change my diet. Less than 6 ounces of meat
a day, 100 ounces of water and low oxalate foods. I have added a few higher oxalate foods recently and Im hoping I won’t be sorry! I dont do a low carb diet like Atkins any longer.

How can I help you? Trying Low Oxalates on FB was a lifesaver!
Did they ever tell you or did you notice if your egfr on your blood work was lower
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:39 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetpoison View Post
Specifics are that I am 64...... with a 1.10 creatitine level and that gave me a egfr of 50 which is considered stage 3a chronic kidney desease (I hate even typing that word). Looking back on my blood work my egfr has been up and down between 60 and 50 which means its been around awhile...... Doc is just advising I clean up my act - diet and try to eat healthy... lose weight... lower blood pressure. Which is all good... but reading the internet gave the basic info look at this and is upsetting.

I have a great doc... been with him along time... but he also is the type that tries not to upset you if not needed. I dont think he is giving me the whole picture.....
I know kidney function declines with age.... but this started back when I was around 50.... that is not old age. If it was just dropping to this degree starting at the age I am now I would not be as upset. Although the rest of my blood work is well within limits.... still driving me crazy .
I did have a kidney stone about 10 years ago....... was in the hospital overnight on IV fluid. Passed it and that was all that was said... looking back on the blood work of that day...,.it was really bad...... but did rebound after all was cleared up. No other kidney stones that I am aware of unless they passed without pain. I meant to edit and not quote..... so sorry
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:51 PM   #24
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A certain amount of kidney function can reverse. If you GFR is in the 50's it may go back up into the 60's if you are gentle with it.

Davita is probably the most thorough site.
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:42 PM   #25
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A certain amount of kidney function can reverse. If you GFR is in the 50's it may go back up into the 60's if you are gentle with it.

Davita is probably the most thorough site.
If that were to happen I would be so grateful I can't put it words. I have spent so many years messing up my body... I just hope its not to late. Its on my mind all the time.... cant shake it......

Trying to watch what I eat and actually drinking my water....... not over doing it but I was always.... most of my adult life ... probably at least mildly dehydrated.... I can go all day and not drink anything...... never thought I was hurting myself.... such an idiot.

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