Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Eating and Exercise Plans > Weight Loss Plans > Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb
FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Forum Jump
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-01-2015, 06:06 PM   #31
MountainMom
Senior LCF Member
 
MountainMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 69
Gallery: MountainMom
Yeah water intoxication is no fun! I've read some horror stories.
MountainMom is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 04-02-2015, 12:50 AM   #32
Faia
Major LCF Poster!
 
Faia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Paragon City
Posts: 2,882
Gallery: Faia
WOE: LC/Avoid Frankenfoods
Start Date: March 2009
Part of it is that there is seldom 1:1 carryover from rat/mice trials to human physiology. Second, sensational press seldom picks up on the actual research and is drawn to lurid headlines.

Take a study on obesity's effect on brain tissue/chemistry. Get a few mice from a specific strain prone to obesity. Feed them a high-fat diet, check their brains before and after. Note that there is no mention of why the mice got fat in the study, obesity prone mice and a high fat diet, they had no question of why, they wanted to study brains. And so what does the media report? "High fat diet makes you fat."

It is things like that that require looking over the science itself rather than just accepting the synopsis. A study of self-reported dietary habits will not have the same strength as a study that gives a set diet to participants. The Keyes Lipid study used data cherry-picked from 7 countries to show a correlation between high fat and heart disease, they actually had data to play with from 22 countries, but several of those blew the hypothesis right out, so those countries were dropped.
Faia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2015, 07:44 AM   #33
clackley
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 14,188
Gallery: clackley
WOE: N.K.=vlc/moderate protein/high fat
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Gary Taubes writes extensively on the subject of how bad the science is around nutrition. It is paradigm shifting. It is very useful to be able to identify the basics of what might be a good study as opposed to a flawed study.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2015, 05:12 PM   #34
MountainMom
Senior LCF Member
 
MountainMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 69
Gallery: MountainMom
*shrug* I'll have faith these scientists know what their doing over non-scientists. I know they explained to me how they will be looking at cells of people prior to exercising and then 16 weeks later to see if something had changed with their subjects at a cellular level. Because all 200 of us have varied diets, if they see a common change with us at a cellular level, they may be able to extrapolate that it's the exercise not the food. See? So I think they are doing it the right way...200 people on varied diets.

Last edited by MountainMom; 04-02-2015 at 05:16 PM..
MountainMom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2015, 05:28 PM   #35
DiamondDeb
Fat Burning Machine Extraordinaire!
 
DiamondDeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 12,031
Gallery: DiamondDeb
Stats: 150+ lbs lost
Regardless of what they told you, changing your nutrition midstream will alter your results. Thy probably don't know anything about how NK works & don't realize it is different than just "going on a diet."
__________________
Living by Faith

Get the right perspective. When Goliath came against the Israelites,
the soldiers all thought, He is so big. We can never kill him."
David looked at the same giant and thought, "He is so big. I can't miss." ~ Russell Johnston
DiamondDeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2015, 05:40 PM   #36
MountainMom
Senior LCF Member
 
MountainMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 69
Gallery: MountainMom
Well then if they have to throw out my results, there are 199 others they can use.

Last edited by MountainMom; 04-02-2015 at 05:41 PM..
MountainMom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2015, 05:59 PM   #37
DiamondDeb
Fat Burning Machine Extraordinaire!
 
DiamondDeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 12,031
Gallery: DiamondDeb
Stats: 150+ lbs lost
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMom View Post
Well then if they have to throw out my results, there are 199 others they can use.
It doesn't sound like they will do that. But I wonder if they might wonder afterward what was going on when the numbers changed.
__________________
Living by Faith

Get the right perspective. When Goliath came against the Israelites,
the soldiers all thought, He is so big. We can never kill him."
David looked at the same giant and thought, "He is so big. I can't miss." ~ Russell Johnston
DiamondDeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2015, 06:52 AM   #38
clackley
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 14,188
Gallery: clackley
WOE: N.K.=vlc/moderate protein/high fat
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMom View Post
*shrug* I'll have faith these scientists know what their doing over non-scientists. I know they explained to me how they will be looking at cells of people prior to exercising and then 16 weeks later to see if something had changed with their subjects at a cellular level. Because all 200 of us have varied diets, if they see a common change with us at a cellular level, they may be able to extrapolate that it's the exercise not the food. See? So I think they are doing it the right way...200 people on varied diets.
You will be a confounding factor in their research. It is not for you to point out the weaknesses in their study - that is for their peers but it would be unlikely that will be uncovered.

The point is that a ketogenic diet does make substantial changes at the cellular level and as an example, the reduction of glucose travelling through cells is in the 80% range. This means less glycation. This is significant to cell health.

This thread has been very interesting because it is a great demonstration of 2 things. One is the need to become fully adapted for the body to work well and then the issue of nutrition science and how it is so varied and often left out of the equation as if it doesn't matter.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2015, 02:38 PM   #39
grneyedldy
Major LCF Poster!
 
grneyedldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,779
Gallery: grneyedldy
Stats: 180/134/120
WOE: NK
Start Date: 9/2/2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
You will be a confounding factor in their research. It is not for you to point out the weaknesses in their study - that is for their peers but it would be unlikely that will be uncovered.

The point is that a ketogenic diet does make substantial changes at the cellular level and as an example, the reduction of glucose travelling through cells is in the 80% range. This means less glycation. This is significant to cell health.

This thread has been very interesting because it is a great demonstration of 2 things. One is the need to become fully adapted for the body to work well and then the issue of nutrition science and how it is so varied and often left out of the equation as if it doesn't matter.
Well maybe they will discover the diet. if for example a handful of participants results stood out. Maybe they will delve deeper? Maybe it will inspire another study?
__________________
Think of the consequences if you do nothing
grneyedldy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2015, 02:40 PM   #40
clackley
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 14,188
Gallery: clackley
WOE: N.K.=vlc/moderate protein/high fat
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by grneyedldy View Post
Well maybe they will discover the diet. if for example a handful of participants results stood out. Maybe they will delve deeper? Maybe it will inspire another study?
I like your optimist thoughts!! I hope you are right.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2015, 04:50 PM   #41
grneyedldy
Major LCF Poster!
 
grneyedldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,779
Gallery: grneyedldy
Stats: 180/134/120
WOE: NK
Start Date: 9/2/2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
I like your optimist thoughts!! I hope you are right.
Yeah I dusted off my rose colored glasses. It could happen.
__________________
Think of the consequences if you do nothing
grneyedldy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2015, 08:10 PM   #42
lovetoknit
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 511
Gallery: lovetoknit
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMom View Post
Ten weeks ago I agreed to take part in a cancer research project. I needed to go to the hospital gym and walk quickly on a treadmill for 40 minutes, 4x per week for 16 weeks. I don't have cancer, but what the study is trying to prove is that with regular exercise, you may be able to build up a type of resistance to cancer.

Anyway, my resting heart rate when I began was about 72, which is in the normal range and I had to keep my active heart rate between 139-151 during each work out.

Up until 2 weeks ago, I was making some pretty significant gains and in order to keep my active heart rate between 139 -151, I was starting to have to run.

Also, my resting heart rate went down to 59 which is quite good, into the athletic range.

Things changed though on my first week on the lchf diet, which caused me to slow down a bit on the treadmill. My legs felt like jello.

Second week, my resting heart rate is now 70 and I'm walking, can't even imagine running right now. Had to take the incline off completely. I'm not suffering for the 40 minutes, but just walking on a flat treadmill is all I can do and stay in that range...around 145 bpm on average.

I know it's pretty obvious that glucose is a higher octane fuel and that I expected I would have a slight decrease in what I could do on the treadmill, but what surprises me is how my resting heart range changed at well.

I'll try drinking even more water today...maybe that will help.

Anyone else notice anything similar?

As soon as I drop my weight, I will be happy to go back to eating more fruit. I've been missing it a lot.
It takes time to get keto adapted. I have been doing this for a couple of years, and I can say that I have more energy than I had before doing this. I also do not need as much sleep. Too much protein makes a person anxious. Fat does not do that. Add salt to your water which will help you feel better. When you eat low carb your body does not retain salt like it does when you eat high carb.
Carolyn
lovetoknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:45 PM.


Copyright ©1999-2017 Netrition, Inc. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Netrition, Inc.