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Old 01-24-2018, 05:06 AM   #181
SlowSure
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Originally Posted by phoenix17 View Post
Slow -I get that. although I will harp on other people to "get thee to the doctor" I tend to put it off myself. Good luck though and hopefully it is the easiest issue to deal with .
I'm having some images of my wrists tomorrow (Thursday) - so, at least I'm on the path to confirming a diagnosis. No more head in the sand and hoping for the best.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:38 AM   #182
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quietnite - So glad that schedule of fasting is working for you. I really like doing 16/8 or 18/6 and have thought about doing JUDDD one week, those others the next week.

jhmart - Don't feel guilty for not doing the cycles right!! I think this very reason is why I end up leaving the forum when I switch things up - I feel guilty for posting on the JUDDD board when not doing the JUDDD schedule per se. In reality, there are so many different ways to fast and JUDDD is just one of them.

phoenix17 - "grumbellies"

slowsure - Hope the tests help find out what's going on.

I had a good low carb UD yesterday but am ravenous - grumbellies - this morning for some reason. Then again, it's only my second day lowering those carbs after the holiday "cruises".
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:23 AM   #183
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Welcome to today's episode of "low carb confessions" - in today's episode we learn of Phoenix's unfortunate foray in to cookies.

Sigh. Yes I definitely went off my plan yesterday. I was doing ok (except for the ketchup faux pas) and even skipped the cheese/cracker table just to stay away from crackers... but dinner was served late. The wine choices were actually excellent (chosen by a guy who is a total enophile and knows his stuff) so I felt the need to sample (it was more than a taste ) all three. I was so hungry and ate two passed appetizers- a fresh roll wrapped in a rice wrapper. They are carbs of course but not bad because it was a small piece. Then dinner came out- buffet style and I swear, with the exception of the sliced beef, everything had a sweet sauce or dressing and there was barely any fat in the choices!!! Snow pea pods- citrus dressing. Salad - I think it was a raspberry vinaigrette (yuck) (and more stuff I didn't try due to obvious carb content). I actually left the dinner when dessert came out to avoid temptation. (I think the person that did the ordering is on WW and fat is a no-no on that plan). And then... sigh... I went home and for whatever reason (the wine?) dove face first in to a box of girl scout cookies I had ordered months ago and there was the unfortunate timing of a delivery this week. I'm very frustrated with myself- I resisted a lot all day and then ruin it at the end of the night!! I should have just enjoyed the rest of the actual food. Anyway- beating myself up a little today but I'm calling yesterday an UD and trying to do DD today. Friday is still going to be an intentional carb loaded UD at the nice restaurant we are going to. so I'll be "good" for 2 days, have a carb day then get back to business.

Funny thing is.. despite the slight headache from the wine I expected to feel worse.

Vanilla- those grumbellies are like gremlins (ghrelin) aren't they? and super embarassing for me at work. My stomach was so loud the guy sitting next to me kept turning to look at me and laughed!!

Slow- yay on going to get checked out! I'll keep my fingers crossed for the least bad diagnosis.

OK time to post and move on. I need to stay busy to keep to my intended water only DD (til a small fat filled dinner anyway).
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:52 AM   #184
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I'm having some images of my wrists tomorrow (Thursday) - so, at least I'm on the path to confirming a diagnosis. No more head in the sand and hoping for the best.

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Old 01-24-2018, 10:32 AM   #185
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Slow, it sounds very painful. If you don't mind, may I ask you if you have difficulty getting referrals in the healthcare system? I am curious, because my husband's family lives in Northhampton, England and we frequently hear it is difficult to get referrals. Especially if you are over a certain age
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:25 AM   #186
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Slow, it sounds very painful. If you don't mind, may I ask you if you have difficulty getting referrals in the healthcare system? I am curious, because my husband's family lives in Northhampton, England and we frequently hear it is difficult to get referrals. Especially if you are over a certain age
It varies *enormously* from one geographical area to another as we allow CCGs (Clinical Commissioning Groups) to make individual decisions for areas. My CCG area is notoriously poor for restricting referrals, drugs, and procedures on the NHS. That said, the NHS care my MiL receives in her CCG area is truly phenomenal with seemingly no restrictions and no financial considerations.

It's a complete lottery.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:05 PM   #187
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I'm going to jump on board if there's room! I am ready to get back down to my 'feel good' weight of 135. I dropped to 124 3 years ago with JUDDD, but medical issues resulted in a significant back-slide, and I'm now weighing in at 150.5. Tomorrow is the first official DD of 2018 for me!
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:21 PM   #188
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Not sure how to edit my avatar. No matter how I rotated the image on my computer, it wouldn't rotate counter-clockwise. I could rotate it up-side-down and do a mirror image...just not right-side-up. I'm done messing with it. lol
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:59 AM   #189
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I'm going to jump on board if there's room!...Tomorrow is the first official DD of 2018 for me!
and there's always space around the JUDDD virtual campfire.

Best wishes for the first DD of 2018
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Old 01-25-2018, 04:53 AM   #190
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Well, here we go! DD1 and I had to be at work by 4:30 AM. Heck of a way to start back on my JUDDD journey Starting the day out sipping on Crystal light and then I’ll eat an egg/bacon/cheese muffin for breakfast. I always have to eat more in the mornings to keep from getting light-headed. Protein is my friend.
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:29 AM   #191
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Welcome Clare, I too have returned to this very supportive place.
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:40 AM   #192
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Hi Clare! I like the avatar that way. Very voidy.
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:48 AM   #193
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welcome clare!

I had a good DD yesterday to counteract my cookie attack and I am already back in ketosis. yay! It also reminded me that I can do DDs. I think I am going to keep today a MD because tomorrow is the party at which I plan to just have what I want (not gorging, just not counting).

I've been putting off starting rotations but now that I did one on purpose, I'm looking forward to getting back to it. I'm going to visualize the incredible shrinking me, being inspired by our thread leader pOrtia, and I'm going to reach my goal of being on a beach in a bathing suit (in public!) by my birthday (July). So says me.
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:07 AM   #194
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Felt so frustrated yesterday at the stall I’m having I decided to give myself a break. Not a pig out just a break, made sure to keep my DD today, so far so good. I’ve been having wine on UDs which I know hurts, and been working out like a fiend. I took pictures and I am a bit slimmer in the rib cage with a cool new muscle there. I expected to be 5 pounds down by now but just keep bouncing between 170- 175.
I’ve been extending my fasts into my UD, I thought, but do you think it is extended since I have coffee and half and half? It’s never prevented me from losing weight, but it’s usually at beginning of fasting day, would you think a change to HWC would keep me in fasting state? Thinking I need substitute caffeine delivery device (do NOT say tea) blech! ��
Sounds like everyone else is chugging along
Our GS cookies don’t come til half way through February here, I thought it was national. Guess not. Or as one customer said “ usually they come at Lent” which is true.
Back to work, thanks for the mini vent!
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:45 AM   #195
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phoenix17 - Yes, those grumbellies can certainly be loud at times! I feel you on the eating downfall into the abyss thing. It happens to most, if not all of us, sometimes. Sounds like you've got a plan in place, though, so that's good!

Hi, Clare!

erinisme - I vote for HWC! Only because I need double the amount of half-n-half to get almost the same taste as HWC. But, I think it's all about the calories, so try it and see.

I was so freaking hungry yesterday on my DD that it ended up being more of a high end MD. I'm having the grumbellies like crazy today, but knowing I can eat something in two and a half hours helps. I have done more of a 17/7 today and I have a feeling that type of schedule is what I'll end up doing. As I've mentioned before, it's what I did last summer/early fall and really did like it. The worst - besides having coffee in the morning - is drinking plain water. Trying to stay away from any AS during the fasting times.
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:53 AM   #196
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I have a question about what qualifies in breaking a fast. Currently, I turn my fast app on at the end of my UD eating, then I turn it off when I get through to the next UP. Having said that, I do have a small meal on DD (a hard boiled egg, or low cal yogurt). Does this qualify as breaking the fast?
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:09 AM   #197
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Vanilla- on my extra hungry days I try to tell myself its because I'm losing weight/in a deficit and my body is fighting me so just hang tough .

Nanu-consuming any calories is breaking a fast in my opinion (yes even HWC in coffee) but according to dictionary.com, fasting means "an abstinence from food, or a limiting of one's food, especially when voluntary and as a religious observance; fasting." So then of course comes the question, in what state do you get the benefits of fasting? is it a complete abstinence of calories that causes that healing/autophagy state? Or is it below a certain calorie count or is it abstaining from certain foods (ie: carbs and protein)? we had a little discussion on here once about the term "fat fast" when you essentially eat almost all fat and nothing else and how that is NOT a fast and the opinions varied quite a bit.

So basically I didn't answer your question.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:25 AM   #198
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So confusing.....thanks for attempting to shine some light though. I'll try looking around for some previous conversations when I have a little time today.
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:34 AM   #199
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Hi I'm back again. I had to run errands yesterday at lunch and missed my posting time again. So odd that lunch time is post with JBs time and for some reason that is the only time I post? Creature of habit that is me. I ran into my old boss at the store while running errands. That was a shocker. She said we'll meet for lunch sometime...hmmm I doubt it but I gave her my number. We shall see.

So yesterday I decided to fast for my DD to kick myself in the butt and get back to my goal weight. Today I'm feeling pretty good so I decided to continue the fast until I drop under goal. That way I can be at goal when I gain the water weight back. I'm not sure if this is too soon to be doing another water fast but since day 1 went so well thought go for it. TOM is about to leave so that should help with the bloat as well. The other thing I will definitely need help with when I hit goal this month (I am doing the positive talking thing here) is calories on UD and DD. Coming off the fast I was too scared to UD. But I am guessing we still do the same UD but increase DD for maintenance? I think that's what I read? I need to reread. you ladies who have been maintaining so well for such a long time will be my most valuable resources!!!!

Lose 20...go you on the water fast!! You lost a lot already!

Vanilla...I love Vanilla so I love your name. I have Vanilla scented candles and warmers and bath stuff and coffee on and on. OK Back to reality no vanilla for now lol. Agreed. I thought I was doing so poor I didn't want to post. I didn't hold my fast low weight even though I knew I wasn't supposed to but that felt like a mini failure followed by I couldn't do a DD for anything so failure again. I need to get over that and just post here. We are all in this together with all the tricks of the trade to help us. Thanks for the great comment. JUDDD is just another great way to fast and it works so well!! And I do also allow some AS in my fast. I definitely limit them but sometimes I just need a little sweet in my carbonated water or my tea.

Nanu - there are several schools of though on fasting and what constitutes a fast. If you want the classical water fast it is water only (and salt) and that's it. No tea and coffee (like me) and nothing in your water (like flavors and AS like I sometimes do). However what I am doing is still ZC fasting. What you are describing is truly legit DD per JUDDD so you are fine. Not a true water fast but still the cycles you need for the UD/DD to work. It also sounds like you are doing the intermittent fast on your DD which is great. If you don't eat anything until dinner then you have done an 18 or 20 hour fast by then. That will still give you benefits of fasting. All in all do what works for you. I also know some that say if you don't go over 200 calories you are still fasting. Not a true water fast but yes still in a fasted state if that makes sense. Hope I didn't confuse you further.

Welcome Clare...its a great plan JUDDD!! I have thrown in a water fast and am practically at goal!!! I started in August so the plan is doable in a reasonable amount of time. DH is doing it with me (not as gung ho as me but hes doing him right now.) He has lost 20 pounds and is looking and feeling great! Good luck to you. And I like sideways head..its cute and nontraditional!

Erin..Keep it up you are doing great! I had the stall thing too and was frustrated. It just takes time for the scale to catch up sometimes. I hate that and I know that but still I was frustrated too. Hang in there you got this!

Phoenix..wow I misread your post! I read..being in a bathing suit in my birthday suit? I was like wow go her! Then I reread and you didn't even come close to saying that LOL.

OK off to read more and then work! Hopefully this water fast shoot me below goal so then I can stay at goal (crossing fingers)
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:24 AM   #200
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Sideways head it is

So far, so good! I don’t want to eat lunch but I know from prior experience that my body needs food on DDs to lose weight. I’m keeping it under 500 cals today.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:04 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix17 View Post
I had a good DD yesterday to counteract my cookie attack and I am already back in ketosis. yay! It also reminded me that I can do DDs. I think I am going to keep today a MD because tomorrow is the party at which I plan to just have what I want (not gorging, just not counting).
Happy for your DD, phoe! Wanted to tell you I've been following your ketosis tracking, and was thus inspired to pick up some new ketone sticks (got ReliOn) and track my ketosis over the weekend. I'm doing it more or less to amuse myself the last week of my Jan Push. I got a "moderate" (40, whatever that means) reading, which is excellent for me, even after a four day z-fast. So I have a baseline for my experiment, and an extra reason to stay below 50 carbs tomorrow.

Quote:
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Felt so frustrated yesterday at the stall Iím having I decided to give myself a break. Not a pig out just a break, made sure to keep my DD today, so far so good. Iíve been having wine on UDs which I know hurts, and been working out like a fiend. I took pictures and I am a bit slimmer in the rib cage with a cool new muscle there. I expected to be 5 pounds down by now but just keep bouncing between 170- 175.
Iíve been extending my fasts into my UD, I thought, but do you think it is extended since I have coffee and half and half?
I hear you on the "expectation" game. *groan* I'm trying to train myself to accept that I have to add like 10 lb to whatever I "expect". I have eaten so little this month it's ridiculous, and I've shrunk amazingly--but the scale is on another planet. ... As for the coffee and half and half, I wouldn't count it as breaking a fast, no. I don't consider anything that is less than 50 cals and/or 1 or 2 carbs as breaking a fast.

I used to be a rigid dieter, but I eventually discovered that it ain't the 50 cals here and there that are the problem.

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I was so freaking hungry yesterday on my DD that it ended up being more of a high end MD. I'm having the grumbellies like crazy today, but knowing I can eat something in two and a half hours helps. I have done more of a 17/7 today and I have a feeling that type of schedule is what I'll end up doing. As I've mentioned before, it's what I did last summer/early fall and really did like it. The worst - besides having coffee in the morning - is drinking plain water. Trying to stay away from any AS during the fasting times.
Hi Nilla! You are a better man than I, drinking plain water. I can't tolerate the stuff, unless I'm dehydrated and really thirsty. Never could. I admit that I drink my diet sodas mainly to fill my tummy. And isn't amazing that one can actually train oneself to wait a few hours? I used to buy into the "six small meals" line, but not snacking and actually waiting is so much better for me.

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I have a question about what qualifies in breaking a fast. Currently, I turn my fast app on at the end of my UD eating, then I turn it off when I get through to the next UP. Having said that, I do have a small meal on DD (a hard boiled egg, or low cal yogurt). Does this qualify as breaking the fast?
phoe is, as usual, spot on. Whenever you eat something after a period of not eating, it's called breaking your fast (e.g., breakfast). The period can be eight hours or eight days (or 80), so context matters. In addition, some people use "fasting" as synonymous with DD, which I think is confusing and should be avoided. So there is no "breaking your fast" just by having a DD or an UD. You break your fast on a DD when you first eat. Same on an UD. For Intermittent Fasting / eating window, the terms works well, as in "I broke my fast at 2 PM, then closed my eating window at 8 PM, doing 18/6 IF". As in, I fasted for 18 hours, then broke my fast at 2. Also useful for OMAD, as in, "I broke my fast at 6 PM, which was my only meal of the day."

And I bet that's waaaayyyy more than you wanted to hear on the fascinating subject of the Language of Weight Management!

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So yesterday I decided to fast for my DD to kick myself in the butt and get back to my goal weight. Today I'm feeling pretty good so I decided to continue the fast until I drop under goal. That way I can be at goal when I gain the water weight back. I'm not sure if this is too soon to be doing another water fast but since day 1 went so well thought go for it.
I've been reading a lot about doing a lot of fasting. A lot of people are doing this, and if the bod doesn't object.... I'm on my 13th zero-cal fast day of the month, so I'm not gonna tell you it's too soon. I do worry about getting enough protein--I've been wolfing it down on non-fasting days.

Anyway, what I'm curious about is hearing you say, "Going okay, so why not keep going?" Is this the same jhmart who suffered so much during her first three days on her water fast just two weeks ago??? I am dying to hear how your day two goes. I think it would be significant if you were able to pretty much cruise through a two or three day z-fast. Evidence that the boy really does get used to it--seems to know what's coming and take it in stride. Keep. Us. Posted!!!



Quote:
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Sideways head it is

So far, so good! I donít want to eat lunch but I know from prior experience that my body needs food on DDs to lose weight. Iím keeping it under 500 cals today.
Excellent. You'll be back in the swing in no time. Yay!
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:22 PM   #202
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Thanks for the encouragement! As a repeat newbie I really appreciate the support.
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:38 AM   #203
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Love this one--don't need the celery stick, just the grapes and cheese.

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Old 01-26-2018, 03:16 AM   #204
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I don’t want to eat lunch but I know from prior experience that my body needs food on DDs to lose weight. I’m keeping it under 500 cals today.
I shed my adipose tissue by eating on DDs during WLM. Eating doesn't trigger hunger for me so it's very much a YMMV because I know that other JBs don't respond this way.

That said, I switched to zero DDs as an experiment after I'd been in maintenance for some years. This was to see if it would help reduce the symptoms associated with inflammatory arthritis. The experiment worked so I keep at this. I might need to change this if I start using medication to control the IA.

Our needs and preferences change as time passes and as our body composition changes. It's difficult to track all of the bodily changes of which we're unaware but I think, over time, it will prove out that we not only have blood-related biomarker changes but alterations to our hormone profiles (I'm specifically thinking of the so-called hunger hormones; leptin, ghrelin, and others yet unknown). These change our response to eating and our hunger levels.

Without going into too much wonkery, literally our body composition changes in ways that it's difficult to grasp to to use effectively to guide our weight loss and maintenance. The hydration level of our body fat changes (I've no idea of the timescale of this as the research just isn't there). The deposition of fat and the take-up of glucose within our muscle alters. There's possibly something interesting going on with our bones and even different sorts of muscle fibres.

Weight loss triggers so many changes, physical and psychological, and they interact. It's fascinating. It's frustrating. It just is what it is and I've remarked before now that comparatively speaking, formal nutrition research is in its infancy which makes obesity research even younger which is why there is so little useful information to guide us.

Last edited by SlowSure; 01-26-2018 at 03:20 AM..
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:20 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by p0rtia View Post
Love this one--don't need the celery stick, just the grapes and cheese.
I would ordinarily have been with you but for some reason, in the last 2 years, the quality of the celery has changed beyond recognition here - it's superb.

I will also mention in passing that I've no idea of the quantities involved to achieve this but there's an interesting BCP (Beta-Caryophyllene) in celery that some early, very basic, investigations are showing to have a useful anti-inflammatory impact.

And, I mention this because releasing adipose tissue can do odd things to our inflammatory profiles for a while.
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Old 01-26-2018, 04:06 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by SlowSure View Post
I would ordinarily have been with you but for some reason, in the last 2 years, the quality of the celery has changed beyond recognition here - it's superb.

I will also mention in passing that I've no idea of the quantities involved to achieve this but there's an interesting BCP (Beta-Caryophyllene) in celery that some early, very basic, investigations are showing to have a useful anti-inflammatory impact.

And, I mention this because releasing adipose tissue can do odd things to our inflammatory profiles for a while.
I adore celery too (when it doesn't have the bitter aftertaste). In the old days, it was my diet staple--these days I also keep it around for near-zero cal between meal bites if needed (even on fast days).

And I just found out about its BCP qualities. Also saw it on the "just as good as beetroot" list, which I'm currently investigating for its BP-lowering characteristics.

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Old 01-26-2018, 04:10 AM   #207
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And I just found out about its BCP qualities. Also saw it on the "just as good as beetroot" list, which I'm currently investigating for its BP-lowering characteristics.
Exactly - as useful as beetroot for fewer calories.

Isn't the BCP fascinating? It would be so helpful if this were confirmed as being useful in sane quantities of consumption (even if that meant juicing it as there are comparatively so few calories in it that the blood sugar impact might be comparatively negligible).
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Old 01-26-2018, 05:46 AM   #208
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Just wanted to pop in and say hi to everyone and to Clare. Loved reading everyone's updates.

With five days left in January I would say the new year is off to a decent start. Would like to be into more of a routine, but that's life. I have been finding the rotations much easier and I have changed not just my DD and UD numbers , but have changed my eating to much healthier options and have found it has helped out tremendously.

The one thing that has been a real struggle is the cold. I cannot for the life of me get warm. Sitting in a super hot bath is the only thing that seems to temporarily warm up my limbs. So looking forward to spring. I am definitely not a winter person.

Wishing everyone a great weekend.
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:05 AM   #209
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phoenix17 - I try to tell myself that, believe me!

jhmart - Lol, I love vanilla, too. Brown sugar vanilla candles, cupcake candles, home-baked cookies candles ... why are the best smelling candles all food related? I'm trying to take my own advice when I end up experimenting and feel I'm not really doing JUDDD so I should skidaddle out of here, which is kind of what I'm doing now. I'm contemplating just focusing on getting back to low carb/keto because I have an upcoming blood test where I need to show my doctor that it will be even better than my initial blood work when she wanted to put me on statins. I just hope three weeks is long enough to accomplish that after the holiday "cruises".

p0rtia - What's odd is that I can drink plain water at home, but here at work it doesn't .. work. And yes, waiting a few hours is a self-challenge. Yeah, that "eat six meals a day" is crazy. I think it was Dr. Fung in his book or podcast that was like really - eat multiple times a day to lose weight?

This week has been a mishmash of "dieting" failures. I've managed to stay mostly low carb and that's been my only "success" this week, even though that was less than stellar. Sigh, there's always next week.

Have a great weekend!
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:55 AM   #210
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For all you plain water-haters, I have to ask- why? I LOVE water. admittedly if you get the nasty treated water from some cities it tastes too... soft... or something but other than that, I love water, even well water which a lot of people seem to especially hate. what I don't like is sweet beverages of any sort, which is weird considering what a sweet tooth I have otherwise.
(and I'm also another lover of celery!)

well today is party day, my original goal for staying LCHF. I have to say, I didn't lose more than a couple of pounds on the scale but echoing so many others, I do feel that it is inaccurate. I feel and look more slim - I assume its just less bloat/puffiness. I am feeling good eating this way so I'm sticking with it. I have already said this-sorry to be repetitive. I have just started back with the rotations so I'm hoping that I'll see faster results now. I am committing to AT LEAST one more month of LCHF. I think part of my problem is I am still not getting enough fat and too much protein.

After re-stating my commitment, today is going to be an off day because of the party and I'm ok with that. For me personally taking a little break sometimes is a good thing to reduce burn out. unfortunately I am starting my day with a terrible headache. And I'm also way more hungry than usual.

Slow- did you get any answers from your wrist examination?

off I go...
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