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Old 09-30-2017, 07:58 PM   #1
DiamondDeb
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Fung Style Fasting Chat ~ OCTOBER 2017

Welcome EVERYONE - if you are new to intermittent fasting, simply curious with questions, an old hand at it, or somewhere in between, jump right in!

Some quotes from Dr. Fung:


“If you think that calories cause obesity you can test this with a feeding study. What you find is that it always comes down to insulin.”
– Dr. Jason Fung

“In 1960, we ate three meals a day. There wasn’t much obesity. In 2014, we eat six meals a day. There is an obesity epidemic. So, do you really think we should eat six meals day?”
― Jason Fung, The Obesity Code: unlocking the secrets of weight loss

“Lowers blood sugar levels Improves insulin sensitivity Increases energy Improves fat-burning Lowers blood cholesterol Prevents Alzheimer’s disease Extends life Reverses aging process Decreases inflammation”
― Jason Fung, The Complete Guide to Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended

“Even the National Cholesterol Education Program admits, “The percentage of total fat in the diet, independent of caloric intake, has not been documented to be related to body weight.”
― Jason Fung, The Obesity Code: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss

“Carbohydrates in their natural, whole, unprocessed form, perhaps with the exception of honey, always contain fiber—which is precisely why junk food and fast food are so harmful. The processing and the addition of chemicals change the food into a form that our bodies have not evolved to handle. That is exactly why these foods are toxic.”
― Jason Fung, The Obesity Code: unlocking the secrets of weight loss

“Simplistic arguments that “Carbs make you fat!” or “Calories make you fat!” or “Red meat makes you fat!” or “Sugar makes you fat!” do not fully capture the complexity of human obesity.”
― Jason Fung, The Obesity Code: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss

The 7 Practical Benefits of Fasting
  1. Add to any diet
  2. Flexibility
  3. Power
  4. Cheat days
  5. Convenience
  6. Cheap
  7. Simplicity
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:39 PM   #2
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Marking my spot. Thanks for the new thread Deb.
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Old 10-01-2017, 06:11 AM   #3
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Subbing and thanks from me too Deb.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
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Old 10-01-2017, 07:57 AM   #4
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Thanks, Deb!!!
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Old 10-01-2017, 09:44 AM   #5
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So, I am really considering fasting twice a week for 36 hours. My question is, on my current regime (psmf...low carb and low fat), I get extremely nauseous in the morning until I eat something. Does that pass, or should I consume a little fat to get through that?
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Old 10-01-2017, 03:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by betterthanever View Post
So, I am really considering fasting twice a week for 36 hours. My question is, on my current regime (psmf...low carb and low fat), I get extremely nauseous in the morning until I eat something. Does that pass, or should I consume a little fat to get through that?
Could you have a little cream in your coffee?
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:39 PM   #7
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I stopped eating Sunday night at 10 pm. The next morning I had coffee & heavy cream. During the day I had a couple of cups of Beef Bullion & Sugar free Iced tea & water. I didn't eat again until about 1 or 2 pm Tuesday. I do this every other day, three days a week. Down 2 lbs the first week. Am I doing this right? Thanks for any suggestions or opinions.
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:14 AM   #8
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Sassy, that is great and you are seeing results on the scale so what you are doing is working for you.

Fung recommends no a.s. (I am assuming that the Surgar free Iced tea has that). Otherwise, I see no place for suggestions!
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:43 AM   #9
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Hey Everyone,

Be sure to listen to Dr. Fung's new Obesity Code Podcast on his IDM website hosted by 2KetoDudes. It is a fascinating talk where they feature a story of a patient and various experts including Dr. Fung weigh in on the symptoms, treatments, diet & exercise. I really like it.

One thing that Megan Ramos mentioned is that now they would like to see people "stop using the training wheels" - for example cream in broth and other things that early on was ok to use but they no longer want people relying on these things and would prefer water and basically white knuckle the fasts.

Again, give it a listen to pick out what I deem as "what's new" within the fasting protocol. As the term "training wheels" to describe items we use to help us get through the longer fasts is new relative to the fasting protocol.

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Old 10-03-2017, 09:03 AM   #10
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It was a good intro podcast. I would take exception to the 'training wheels' analogy. I think that it is a bit condescending and not particularly accurate. I am sure that a pure water fast is better for lowering insulin - no argument there. That is the whole reason for fasting. However, many people actually need to have a bit of broth or fat with coffee in order to do a fast at all.

A water fast is perfect and a fast with a bit of broth and/or fat is good. Keto is good. Don't let perfect get in the way of good.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
"I resist insulin" Hyperlipid
We are butter together!
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:03 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
Hey Everyone,

Be sure to listen to Dr. Fung's new Obesity Code Podcast on his IDM website hosted by 2KetoDudes. It is a fascinating talk where they feature a story of a patient and various experts including Dr. Fung weigh in on the symptoms, treatments, diet & exercise. I really like it.

One thing that Megan Ramos mentioned is that now they would like to see people "stop using the training wheels" - for example cream in broth and other things that early on was ok to use but they no longer want people relying on these things and would prefer water and basically white knuckle the fasts.

Again, give it a listen to pick out what I deem as "what's new" within the fasting protocol. As the term "training wheels" to describe items we use to help us get through the longer fasts is new relative to the fasting protocol.
Thanks for the heads up. I’ll listen to it later.

Dr. Fung always made it perfectly clear that the best results will come from no added food, even fats. The small amount of added fat was said to be better than quitting and to be added only when one was not able to go w/o. That suggestion kind of mushroomed into a “what can I eat while fasting” kind of thing with people planning to consume. People hear what they want to hear. -I see that Megan is not working on improving her communication skills...
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:31 AM   #12
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It was a good intro podcast. I would take exception to the 'training wheels' analogy. I think that it is a bit condescending and not particularly accurate. I am sure that a pure water fast is better for lowering insulin - no argument there. That is the whole reason for fasting. However, many people actually need to have a bit of broth or fat with coffee in order to do a fast at all.

A water fast is perfect and a fast with a bit of broth and/or fat is good. Keto is good. Don't let perfect get in the way of good.
I agree Cathy. I have heard Dr. Fung in the past talk about patients and those who need to have something like fat in broth or coffee to help them along and that it was ok to do so.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:40 AM   #13
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Thanks for the heads up. I’ll listen to it later.

-I see that Megan is not working on improving her communication skills...


I was thinking about this when she was talking and then it hit me to not be surprised by the ever changing information due to the quick dissemination of information via YouTube and Podcasts. By the time a book hits the shelf, half the information is already outdated and with the influx of Low-carb, Keto, Fasting, and Diabetes experts out here now, we will be hearing some "new" stuff that may raise our eyebrows or shake our heads. Dr. Berg for example is putting out 2+ videos a day, not a week...a day. Information is moving fast and to stay on top of their game or to remain relevant, we will be hearing some interesting info. The next podcast is scheduled for Oct 9th.

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Old 10-03-2017, 12:11 PM   #14
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Hey everyone, back from the week long destination wedding. I feel like I did really well while hanging out in a beach house for a week with a bunch of party animals. I mostly stuck to one meal a day and only had any alcohol to drink twice. I came home to discover that I'd lost a half a pound!

I'm down about 10 pounds total from when I started.
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:16 PM   #15
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Diane, KUTGW! I am so impressed with how well you did on your trip.
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:56 PM   #16
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I don't remember hearing the term "training wheels" before, but Dr. Fung was always clear that going without fats, etc was better.

I noticed he was also always careful not to give my numbers or amounts when saying fat and bone broth were OK. If he had said something like, say, "up to 500 calories of fat and 200 of protein are OK" there would be a poorly edited "Fung Fasting Cookbook" on Amazon by the end of the week.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:17 PM   #17
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I don't remember hearing the term "training wheels" before, but Dr. Fung was always clear that going without fats, etc was better.
Correct and it was always understood for those who need a very small amount of fats, it was ok. I do recall Dr. Fung in a YouTube video saying a tablespoon of cream is fine. Like Deb said, the other side of the coin is some people took adding fats as a way of trying to increase caloric intake and say its fasting when it is not but instead a fed state. I'm interested in hearing the future podcasts.

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Old 10-03-2017, 01:27 PM   #18
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Maybe some of the thinking around doing a reduced calorie type 'fast' is an evolution from JUDDD?
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:50 PM   #19
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Maybe some of the thinking around doing a reduced calorie type 'fast' is an evolution from JUDDD?
Could be. Probably that and Michael Mosely's "Fast Diet." There was a BBC Horizon episode that investigated research around every other day fasting. They say it shows that <500 calories per day is metabolically the same as fasting.

Dr Johnson (of JUDDD) wrote in his book that 0 calorie down days (what he calls fasting days) would be more effective, but he didn't think people could stick with it.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:20 PM   #20
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Water fasting only is probably more important for people who are considerably IR. and insulin resistance is such a hard thing to track. So I'm guessing that if you have high blood sugar, water fasting only (or close to it) is the way to go.

If weight loss is your main goal, JUDDD works wonders for a lot of people.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:53 PM   #21
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Water fasting only is probably more important for people who are considerably IR. and insulin resistance is such a hard thing to track.
Actually, IR is very easy to track.


HbA1C - Diabetes, Pre-diabetes diagnosis
Fasting Insulin + Fasting Glucose in same blood draw
Skin tags
Lot of dead skin on bottom of feet (scraper needed during pedicure)
Acanthosis Nigricans - dark patches around neck, on elbows, skin darker in face
Height/Waist ratio: waist should be half your height in inches

There are many others that allow one to track the progress or worsening of IR.

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Old 10-03-2017, 03:11 PM   #22
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Sorry I wasn't clear. I mean "hard to track" compared to blood glucose. Meter and strips. Insulin testing itself isn't something done at home like glucose.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:20 PM   #23
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Ok, gotcha!
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:31 PM   #24
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Well, I did my first 24-hour fast yesterday. The first in a long time I should say. It went pretty well. I'm going to attempt a 36-hour tomorrow, but if I just do a 24 that's okay too. I would like to try to fast Monday Wednesday and Friday, but I will see how it goes.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:36 AM   #25
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I have started 16/8 fasting kind of by accident. Last Thursday, I started wearing a retainer because of crowding of my bottom teeth. I can't comfortably eat with it in, so I stopped an incredible amount of snacking and the resulting cravings. I've been listening to Ted Talks and YouTube presentations on the benefits of fasting. As I was doing JUDDD anyway, I had started skipping breakfast quite a while ago, except for the coffee with 1/2 Tbsp. of cream. Then I was having my first meal at 11:00 A.M. or so and dinner around 6:00. But I did a lot of snacking between and after my 11-6 window, so I considered my fast from about 10:00 P.M. till 11:00 A.M. I've been trying different things since starting 16/8 (only eating between 11 and 6). I've found that not snacking (including between 11 and 6) and only drinking water and coffee with cream makes a huge difference! Yesterday I tried going without my morning coffee and I felt horrible, so I added that back in, plus increased the cream to 1 Tbsp. I feel so much better today! Also, I am continuing with JUDDD, eating about 500 calories every other day.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:22 PM   #26
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So, I ate at 6pm last night, and plan to go until tomorrow morning. I fasted 24 hours Monday, ate normal low carb yesterday, and am fasting again today. I have 2 flights of stairs I have to do several times a day, and it was tough getting up them by noon today. Not sure if more sodium/potassium/magnesium would help, or if it's just the way it's gonna be. I was down 2 lbs this morning (it had been "trying" to move down the last few days, so I think the fasting gave it the nudge it needed!). Except for the stairs, the fasting has been easy, so I'm encouraged!
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:09 PM   #27
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So, I ate at 6pm last night, and plan to go until tomorrow morning. I fasted 24 hours Monday, ate normal low carb yesterday, and am fasting again today. I have 2 flights of stairs I have to do several times a day, and it was tough getting up them by noon today. Not sure if more sodium/potassium/magnesium would help, or if it's just the way it's gonna be. I was down 2 lbs this morning (it had been "trying" to move down the last few days, so I think the fasting gave it the nudge it needed!). Except for the stairs, the fasting has been easy, so I'm encouraged!
Climbing stairs (multi-level house) was the same thing that really bothered me ... it was like I just had no energy and I felt awful. Adding the coffee and cream back in the morning helped a lot. Weird.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:52 AM   #28
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Hi everyone,

A quick update on what has turned into an amazing journey!

This originally started out on June 28th as a regularly scheduled 3 Day "Fung style" fast, as I was allowing myself heavy cream in coffee once day. On day three it evolved into an open ended extended fast - no set end date. I had assumed I would end the fast when I traveled to Southern California at the end of July if not before then. Instead I chose to continue the fast.

Today is day 103 - this coming Tuesday will be the end of week 15.
I continue to feel well as long as I get enough salt to keep my blood pressure in a normal range. I continue to supplement with salt, potassium, magnesium, phosphorous, CoQ10, Fish Oil and a high quality, easily absorbable multivitamin. I'm very active, and take an exercise class two days a week.

Basic statistics:

June 28, 2017 - Begin Modified Fast
Weight. 194.5
Bust. 44
Waist. 37.5
Hips. 42
Back. 35
Thighs 23.5

October 7, 2017 - Day 102
Weight. 146
Bust. 40
Waist 32
Hips. 36
Back 31.5
Thighs 20

Currently, I intend to end this fast on November 1st and start a two month long refeeding process using a Keto plan for breaking an extended fast.

I've learned an incredible amount about fasting and the human body over the last 3 - 4 months. The most important being that while extended fasting can be fairly easy for many people, breaking the fast slowly and correctly can be extremely difficult.

There seems to be a very strong tendency for even a very small quantity of refined carbs to set off a feeding frenzy that can last for days, weeks or for some, even months. Because of that I've come to the conclusion that unless someone is absolutely certain they will be able to rigidly control themselves during the refeeding process they would be much better off to confine themselves to fasts of no more than two weeks.

Hope everyone is doing well and making progress on their chosen path.
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Old 10-08-2017, 11:32 AM   #29
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Wow, Carolyn. This is amazing. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:06 PM   #30
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I am so happy for you Carolyn! Great job, you got this!
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