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Old 10-07-2017, 10:26 PM   #91
Baricat
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Linginfelter, I replied to your post on the Vitafiber thread about custom mixing.

As I said on there, it all depends on what you're after.

However, be advised that it is so new that no one on this forum has worked with it enough to know all the properties of BS in various applications, and the website is long on glowing praise for its product, but very short on any practical information. The company, in my experience and in that of others here, doesn't seem to answer email questions, as I posed a couple of simple ones, and they completely blew me off. No answer either time.

As you can see from my posts above, it does need to be well powdered before inclusion in any recipe that will not be significantly heated, or it will contribute a gritty mouthfeel. This can be true for some ice cream recipes that don't get actually cooked, and it was definitely true for making a chocolate bar. Chocolate tempering isn't done at high enough heat to allow the BS crystals to denature sufficiently to disappear into the finished product. The results were distractingly granular. Not what you want in a chocolate bar.

I'd caution against assuming yet that it's the only sweetener you'll ever need. Realize that the jury's still out on all facets of its performance under different conditions and applications. It's just too new. So far, it's promising, but there is at least that one caveat I've uncovered so far. Plus, it's extremely expensive (lowest price is only available if you invest in 6 pounds, at a mind-numbing $13 a pound, for a grand total of $77 and change! Trying a single pound will set you back some $18. And one pound yields only a touch over 2 cups. For reference, a small, 8" pan of brownies that I made last weekend took 1 cup, or 1/2 pound.) So as you can see, it doesn't go all that far.

And others here have experienced some mild gastric distress from it. YMMV. If you're diabetic or have other blood sugar issues, you will need to experiment with caution before using it exclusively. I can assure you as one who has had trouble with other sweeteners in the past, they can range from just the annoyance of mild to severe flatulence, all the way to incapacitating pain, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea that can last for several hours and severely dehydrate you. Not to say that will happen to you. Chances are it won't. But before saying this is the only sweetener you will ever need, please be cautiously circumspect.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:08 AM   #92
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As usual, I agree completely with Cat.

My Bocha Sweet arrived the other day. First test: Hot chocolate made with unsweetened disks of dark chocolate. Needed two tablespoons to achieve properly sweet flavor, but then I use more chocolate than most people would.
Verdict: Perfect!

I am not diabetic (though that disease does run in the family on both sides) and am happily blessed with a GI tract that handles most anything that comes its way. No digestive issues for me.

Biggest negative with Bocha: EXTREME COST!
For this reason alone, I'd say you need to become familiar and happy with the other sweeteners out there. I've always found a blend of the various types to work best. Many different recipes for such on this forum and, of course, the internet.

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Old 10-08-2017, 12:25 PM   #93
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As usual, I agree completely with Cat.

My Bocha Sweet arrived the other day. First test: Hot chocolate made with unsweetened disks of dark chocolate. Needed two tablespoons to achieve properly sweet flavor, but then I use more chocolate than most people would.
Verdict: Perfect!

I am not diabetic (though that disease does run in the family on both sides) and am happily blessed with a GI tract that handles most anything that comes its way. No digestive issues for me.

Biggest negative with Bocha: EXTREME COST!
For this reason alone, I'd say you need to become familiar and happy with the other sweeteners out there. I've always found a blend of the various types to work best. Many different recipes for such on this forum and, of course, the internet.

Ginny in SC
Very well said, Ginny!! (And I'm glad you had no GI issues with it, too!)
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Old 10-08-2017, 06:16 PM   #94
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Thanks ladies! I am not diabetic but some sweeteners (malitol!) can be rough on my digestive system. I ordered Bochasweet and the various sweeteners for the blend Baricat uses for her AS mix. Fingers crossed! I am excited to see how these work out. I really appreciate your responses.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:47 AM   #95
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You will need to get used to having different sweeteners to do different jobs. We typically didn't have just regular white sugar in our pantries, but also brown sugar, molasses, corn syrup, honey, powdered sugar, etc. It's really the same for alternative sweeteners, one size doesn't fit all.

If you're talking about strictly a granulated sugar replacement, Bochasweet works well, but it is a YMMV issue. Some people have experienced unpleasant side effects from it, so that's something to consider. Also, it is really, really, REALLY expensive, and the price alone right now makes it a companion sweetener and not a sole sweetener.
Also, apparently it does not caramelize, which means you will need a different sweetener if you plan to make caramel sauces and things like that.

Here are the sugar replacements I'm using right now:

Granulated sugar: Bochasweet, erythritol, Ideal

Brown sugar: Whey Low Brown, Just Like Sugar Brown

Powdered Sugar: Powdered erythritol, Ideal and Bochasweet

Corn syrup: Vitafiber syrup

Cocoa Mix: Lakanto Drinking Chocolate
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:32 PM   #96
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Thanks, English. Yet another !!

Adding to your list, one more sweetener that many of us keep in our baking/dessert arsenals is that of various syrups, such as Monin, DaVinci, and Torani. They are most valuable for use in liquid preparations, such as ice cream, but they have a role to play frequently in batters, such as in brownies, cheesecakes, etc. Because they are liquid, their use is contingent on figuring out how much you can use before the other liquids in the recipe will need to be altered. Monin and DaVinci (don't know enough about Torani to say if they do or don't) brands offer a flavorless syrup for the purpose of adding general sweetening without contributing a specific flavor. When the flavored versions are used, they not only flavor the item, but also increase the sweetness.

These syrups are almost always used in tandem with at least one other sweetener, so there's a corollary that supports English's point.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:23 PM   #97
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Thanks, English. Yet another !!

Adding to your list, one more sweetener that many of us keep in our baking/dessert arsenals is that of various syrups, such as Monin, DaVinci, and Torani. They are most valuable for use in liquid preparations, such as ice cream, but they have a role to play frequently in batters, such as in brownies, cheesecakes, etc. Because they are liquid, their use is contingent on figuring out how much you can use before the other liquids in the recipe will need to be altered. Monin and DaVinci (don't know enough about Torani to say if they do or don't) brands offer a flavorless syrup for the purpose of adding general sweetening without contributing a specific flavor. When the flavored versions are used, they not only flavor the item, but also increase the sweetness.

These syrups are almost always used in tandem with at least one other sweetener, so there's a corollary that supports English's point.
Excellent point. I no longer use syrups, but I do use coffee sweeteners/enhancers and I also use Splenda Zero for when I need an extra boost of sweetener or intense flavor boost (caramel, hazelnut, etc). It really comes in handy when using sweeteners like erythritol.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:14 PM   #98
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The first time, I chalked it up to a fluke.

But now that I've made two batches of ice cream with BochaSweet, I can say without a single doubt that it improves the scoopability of your ice cream immeasurably! Better than Vitafiber. Better than polyD. Better than vodka. Better than xanthan gum or Thick It Up.

Last weekend, I made chocolate chip ice cream, and couldn't believe how remarkably easy it was to dish up, just using a normal teaspoon off the table. That hasn't happened before. No matter what, I end up having to melt it slightly in the microwave before I can get a heavy defrosting scoop through it.

I thought that was weird, because I had forgotten to add the main softening agent, 2 Tb vodka. So I did the same with the second batch, strawberry this time, to see if the results would be repeated.

Same thing! Beautifully soft, 48 hours after churning and storing it in a chest freezer.

So here's another unknown (and happy!) side effect of this outstanding sweetener.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:20 PM   #99
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I just got my email, and what should be there, but one from BochaSweet. They are giving a 10% discount through 11/19, using the code HOLIDAY. What a great and timely deal for anyone who has been thinking of trying it!
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:08 PM   #100
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Thanks for the heads up Cat! I got no such email and I'm getting low, so it's good to know I can get a discount when I stock up for holiday baking.

I think Bochasweet really shines in baked goods. It takes on such a pure, unassuming taste, it really does perform exactly like sugar and better than any sugar replacement I've used--and that includes Whey Low, which is actually sugar. lol
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:45 PM   #101
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Lol, well came here to tell ya'll about the 10% off but Baricat beat me to it. So far after the pb cake that I made, I'm only using it in my coffee. And it's still a omg moment for me everytime that I fix a cup, just like what I remember coffee tasting like. If for the coffee alone, it's worth the price, although I don't drink much coffee. Looking forward to some homemade hot chocolate this winter using it, have really missed that. I would assume based on the texture, very granulated , like xylitol, that if you store it in a well sealed plastic or glass, it should keep indefinitely. I kept some xylitol for over 8 yrs one time. Why? duh, left the lc WOE and then picked it bk up when I became diabetic. The xylitol was stored in a food grade bucket, as at the time, I had ordered it in a 50lb bag, had about 20lbs in the bucket when I quit lc'ing. Because of the expense, I will only use it as a additive sweetner in sm. amts if needed, probably won't right now because I've already been able to figure out my sweetners for the things I need and they're all so much cheaper than the BS. So for now, it will be a coffee and hot chocolate sweetner.

Baricat, do you mind posting here your ice cream recipe? thks
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:46 PM   #102
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Thanks for the heads up Cat! I got no such email and I'm getting low, so it's good to know I can get a discount when I stock up for holiday baking.

I think Bochasweet really shines in baked goods. It takes on such a pure, unassuming taste, it really does perform exactly like sugar and better than any sugar replacement I've used--and that includes Whey Low, which is actually sugar. lol
I've got to agree enthusiastically with you, English! It is my favorite sweetener not only for baking, but also for ice cream, because of how nice and soft it keeps the product, straight out of the freezer. This is a real find, maybe the biggest game-changer in years! I'm so grateful to Marsha for letting us all know about it.
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Old 10-20-2017, 04:07 PM   #103
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Lol, well came here to tell ya'll about the 10% off but Baricat beat me to it. So far after the pb cake that I made, I'm only using it in my coffee. And it's still a omg moment for me everytime that I fix a cup, just like what I remember coffee tasting like. If for the coffee alone, it's worth the price, although I don't drink much coffee. Looking forward to some homemade hot chocolate this winter using it, have really missed that. I would assume based on the texture, very granulated , like xylitol, that if you store it in a well sealed plastic or glass, it should keep indefinitely. I kept some xylitol for over 8 yrs one time. Why? duh, left the lc WOE and then picked it bk up when I became diabetic. The xylitol was stored in a food grade bucket, as at the time, I had ordered it in a 50lb bag, had about 20lbs in the bucket when I quit lc'ing. Because of the expense, I will only use it as a additive sweetner in sm. amts if needed, probably won't right now because I've already been able to figure out my sweetners for the things I need and they're all so much cheaper than the BS. So for now, it will be a coffee and hot chocolate sweetner.

Baricat, do you mind posting here your ice cream recipe? thks
Sure, JJJ'sMom! Basically, I use the recipe from the lengthy prior thread called "My Rich Vanilla Ice Cream (scoopable)" with the changes I noted toward the end (either the last page of that thread, or the next-to-last page.

And now, I replaced the erythritol with powdered BochaSweet.

Also, I use a Lorann Flavor Fountain, at the rate of 1 Tb per half recipe, to convert it into just about any flavor you could want. I've used the black raspberry, blueberry delight, salted caramel, lemon custard, and orange, all with stellar results. I have others that I have not had a chance to use yet. They come in 1.7 fluid ounce bottles, which will flavor 3.5 half-batches. The only one I won't use is the chocolate fudge, which tastes plain awful. But I started a separate thread for chocolate, since that's a tricky flavor to sweeten (BochaSweet does an awesome job in my chocolate brownies, so I believe it will do a new awesome job in ice cream.) It's called, not surprisingly "My Rich Chocolate Ice Cream."

Most reasonable place to buy the Flavor Fountains is on eBay. Great break on shipping for ordering multiples.

Once you make the vanilla base, that is, the recipe minus the vanilla flavoring, you can flavor it to make any kind you want. The reasons I always split it in half are 1) I get two flavors for the work of making one and 2) I find the smaller amount (which is a bit less than a pint) freezes faster and smoother in my ice cream machine (Cuisinart ICE-100, which has the built-in compressor.)

You can store this base, or part of it, for 4 days, covered, in your fridge, and churn it when you want.

Whew! I think that covers it. If there's anything I forgot, you can feel free to PM me or ask on here.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:38 AM   #104
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thks Baricat.
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Old 10-22-2017, 04:12 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Baricat View Post
I've got to agree enthusiastically with you, English! It is my favorite sweetener not only for baking, but also for ice cream, because of how nice and soft it keeps the product, straight out of the freezer. This is a real find, maybe the biggest game-changer in years! I'm so grateful to Marsha for letting us all know about it.
Thanks Baricat!!! When I found this, I just couldn't believe it!! I was a skeptic as many were trying it out, but you know, I will never regret taking a chance on this one!!! both my son, (type one diabetic) and with my blood sugars not spiking with this or any gastric issues. I was sold! I just purchased 6 LB. I wish I had waited for just a little while to use this coupon. I looked on their site today, and they now offer 10 and 18 LB options. This will be an investment I take on after I finish the first 6 LB. To us, the benefits completely outweigh the cost.

I will not even bother looking for another "regular" sweetener. This is it for me. I'm done mixing 3 or 4 different ones and still not getting the correct taste or effect in a finished product.
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Old 10-22-2017, 11:19 AM   #106
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Man if I wasn't moving soon I'd be on this but it's just gonna have to wait! No point spending MORE money in a "by weight" move on 18 pounds of already-expensive sweetener!
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:49 PM   #107
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10 and 18 pounds! Oh dear, my poor bank account.

Has anyone powdered this yet? I made some frosting the other day using mostly powdered erythritol, and I was resentful of having to deal with the slight cooling effect.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:54 PM   #108
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Cat remarked she had powdered some, and suggested it as a good idea for chocolate bars, check post #91 for some of her comments on the subject!
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:22 PM   #109
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Well, Marsha, you did an immeasurable public service when you put it on our radar. I owe you a debt of gratitude. You're right. It's so darned good that it's tough to go back to other sweeteners that's just don't cut it.

English, Char is correct, as always. I powdered it for use in my chocolate bar because of my prior experience, when, having not powdered it, the chocolate bar had a decided "crunch factor" to it. And I'm not talkin' Nestle's Crunch, if you know what I mean. It was noticeable, and not in a pleasant way.

So for the second try, I did powder it. Worked out much better, but I could still detect a barely-perceptible graininess. Maybe it wouldn't bug others, but I tend to be abnormally finicky regarding texture. It's gotta perform, our it's outta there. BochaSweet seems to rely on the presence of heat in some form in order to denature from its granular form. Failing that, you must break down the crystals mechanically (i.e. powdering.)

So my recommendation would be to powder the living bejesus out of it if using BS in something that won't be heated either by means of baking, or by stirring into a hot beverage like coffee or tea. For me, most notably, that means when I make ice cream. Frosting fits that same category, as well, although I haven't tried it in that application yet. Will report when I have occasion to do so.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:45 PM   #110
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Boy, Marsha! You must have some hypnotic power or something. First, you persuade me to buy this stuff, thereby becoming totally had hopelessly hooked, then, you get me to plunk down $179.10 (after coupon HOLIDAY) for 18 pounds.

That brings it down to under $9.50 a pound. Seriously, when I told Mr. Cat about it, his reply was, "Well, then. I guess you're just gonna have to buy it." He never missed a beat, never so much as batted an eye. That's because I had made him some incredible chocolate chip ice cream and brownies with it last weekend. The memory hung like a lovely, dulcet, gossamer haze in his epicurean consciousness. He, too, was rendered powerless to resist.

Such is the power of BochaSweet... aka LC crack!
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:11 PM   #111
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Thanks for the info Cat! I'm a little disappointed that it has the cooling/grainy effect, that definitely dulls its bright light just a little, but I will deal with it. I am so done with erythritol, I used powdered E in a frosting recipe, and for the first time, I felt that cooling effect/ burning throat sensation and I'm struggling to finish off the cake now. Was hoping that bochasweet would be able to step in for the erythritol in frosting recipes, but maybe not.
We don't have a lot of information on it yet, but I'm assuming that it is a sugar alcohol of some sort since it is found in the skins of kabocha, so maybe it's to be expected.
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:33 PM   #112
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I don't believe Cat reported a cooling effect, just the graininess from not powdering it down finely enough? I went back and looked through her posts and don't see where she says it has that cooling thing that erythritol and some xylitol has.

Cat, correct me if I'm wrong! I don't care for the cooling thing so if this sweetener has that property, I won't be buying it, now or in the future, as I still have a bunch of erythritol that I haven't used up because of that.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:29 PM   #113
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Not Cat. But no cooling effect for me.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:16 PM   #114
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I agreee with Chele. I've never experienced so much as a whisper of cooling effect. I think that's a property of erythritol only. Char is right. I only experienced some residual graininess from not having powdered It aggressively enough. It needs quite awhile in my Krupps coffee mill to powder it super finely, longer than I used on the erythritol.

The slight graininess was clearly operator error, not the fault of the sweetener. So henceforth, I'm going to really wail on that coffee mill button for a full minute to a minute-and-a-half to make sure to have powdered it finely enough. After that, I don't anticipate that I'll have any further problem.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:14 PM   #115
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Well just ordered my BS w/ the coupon. Hmm, they're not selling a 1 lb bag but they are offering free shipping on every order. So a 2lb bag is $31.99. Those of us who tried just the 1 lb bag to start with had $20 a lb in that stuff. And love the larger sizes, more savings, just ordered the 18lb bag. To review and update my side effects (gas) So made the pb cake, and there was some gasiness. Then went to coffee and loooved it but some gasiness, but I said oh heck, I'll just drink coffee when no one is around. Same thing on the 2nd cup the next day. I've now been drinking 1 cup per day and not even the faintest whisper of gasiness. (no probs as of the 3rd cup) Not sure why it did it initially. But hey, I'm grateful.

Baricat, you state graininess in more than 1 thing. I can see it in the choc bar but........last night I put some in mayo (love a sweet dressing) and wham, it dissolved immediately, no heat. So Baricat would you say, if there is moisture present and no heat, then dissolving wouldn't be a problem. I even think that the moisture in a egg would dissolve it, as in when making cakes or cookes, I do my lc sugar, egg and vanilla first, to start the dissolving process, as xylitol benefits from a soak. In chocolate, in a buttercream frosting, is that where it may be grainy all the time?? As far as the butter cream, a Swiss meringue buttercream should solve the graininess. Lmk what ya think.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:31 PM   #116
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Ah HA, JJJ! Another piece of the puzzle...

No, I found no evidence to say it's the presence of moisture, or even liquid that dissolved it. When I introduced it into the melted chocolate, it was 100% fluid. That was my first theory, so I kept trying to melt it a little more and a little more, whisking vigorously after each try. Nope. No matter how loose it got, you could not only feel, but also see the floating and suspended grains of sweetener. No love.

BUT...

What I would be inclined to suspect very strongly based on what you said is that the acidity of the mayo is what was the agent that was responsible.

So my next test will be to put some in straight lemon juice, then dilute lemon juice, then mayo to determine if 1) acid is, indeed, the operational player here, and then 2) there is any difference as to the speed and efficacy with which it dissolves, directly proportional to the lowering of the pH of the receiving substance.

Oooooooooooo! Don't you just love a good mystery?!
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Last edited by Baricat; 10-23-2017 at 10:33 PM..
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:15 AM   #117
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LOL, I love these scientific food experiments!
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:42 PM   #118
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Sorry Cat, when I see"graininess", I automatically assume cooling effect--I think I might be scarred! So many failed recipes due to recrystalization, I just assume they both go hand in hand.

Interesting that it dissolved in mayo. Hmmm .... I think I'm going to go and make some marshmallows and use it as the sole sweetener and see how it turns out.

I'm also going to use it in some coleslaw tonight and will report back. I'm feeling a little bolder about experimenting with it now because I can tolerate it fully and also because the price seems to be coming down a tad bit, even if it's just shipping costs that are covered.

I forgot to add, I'm going to dump an entire bag into my blender along with a tablespoon or two of cornstarch to make powdered sugar. Yikes! Wish me luck!

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Old 10-24-2017, 03:00 PM   #119
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Englishlit, do let us know how the powdered sugar thing goes.
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:07 PM   #120
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I've been trying to find out what the kind of sugar alcohol is that makes up Bochasweet. All I can see on the website is that it's a "pentose" sugar. Xylitol is a pentose sugar. There's another product out called "pumpkin sweet", which claims to be derived from kabocha squash, but it states outright that it is xylitol. Could Bochasweet be a squash-based xylitol? Also, are there any warnings about giving it to dogs?
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