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Old 10-24-2017, 04:27 PM   #121
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I haven't seen any warnings about giving dogs BS. If it's close to xylitol, it's missing something xylitol has. I can't eat xylitol without acute gastric distress, and I have none with BS. The taste of BS is pretty much like sugar. Xylitol is not. Sometimes, all it takes is one molecule on a chain to make a huge difference. It's definitely not identical to normal xylitol in many ways, although it's probably related.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:45 PM   #122
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I have tried powdering it and using it in some cream cheese frosting.. and do I really need to tell you the outcome??!! It was smooth, sweet, non-cooling, yumminess!!!
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:23 PM   #123
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I believe Bochasweet and pumpkin sweet are the same thing I originally tried to order pumpkin sweet but this is what they sent me
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:52 PM   #124
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The only reason I think that it might not be xylitol is because on the website, it states that it is safe for dogs and animals (and we all know xylitol is not) and because it is 0 calories per tsp while xylitol is 10 calories per teaspoon.
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:36 PM   #125
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English, that's proof enough for me. What clinches the deal is that it doesn't make me double over, clutching my gut in severe pain, like xylitol does.
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:34 AM   #126
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I wanted to try it, but I didn't want to pay $18 for a pound just to find another sweetener that I didn't like. I couldn't find out what was in it on their site except that it contains a "pentose" sugar (xylitol is one of those). When I typed in "Bochasweet" on Amazon, I got a product called "Pumpkin Pure" instead. Pumpkin Pure states that it is xylitol, extracted from kabocha pumpkins. I then wrote to the contact on the Bochasweet site and asked for a sample. I got a reply (no we don't offer samples) from--you guessed it, Pumpkin Pure! So wondering if they are the same thing from the same company under different names or what? And is Bocha sweet just a kabocha derived form of xylitol? I'd really like more information.

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Old 10-25-2017, 08:39 AM   #127
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Here's a link to the Pumpkin Pure Facebook site with a picture of Pumpkin Sweet. It seems that they have changed the name to Bochasweet, but it clearly states that the Pumpkin Pure is xylitol.
https://www.facebook.com/PumpkinPureLLC/
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:42 AM   #128
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Well that is very interesting that Pumpkin Pure answered for Bochasweet.

Just to try, I sent BochaSweet an email asking whether their product is safe for animals. I sent it yesterday afternoon and no answer yet.

I did buy 2 bags of it and I'll be happy to give them a try. But xylitol does raise my type 1 husband's blood sugar. I'll see how that goes. Thanks to all who are working this through.
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Old 10-25-2017, 09:22 AM   #129
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Yes, on one site when I tried to get to Pumpkin Pure, I got a message and a redirect saying that Pumpkin Pure had changed its name to Bochasweet. No mention of it changing its formula, so we have to assume at this point that it's just xylitol extracted from kabocha pumpkins. I don't know if xylitol tastes and behaves differently according to where it is sourced, but at this point, I'd be super careful not to let my dogs get near it. The price for 10 pounds of Pumpkin Sweet (just last year) used to be around $79 or so making it $7.90 per pound when buying in bulk.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:33 AM   #130
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They have a FAQ on the website that answers some of these questions, including whether or not it is safe for animals.

I didn't have luck getting them to respond to me by email, but they responded immediately when I asked questions to them on Twitter, so maybe I'll do that again later and see if we can get to the bottom of this. If Bochasweet is safe for dogs, as stated on their website, then it can't possibly be xylitol. Just because Pumpkin Pure was xylitol doesn't necessarily mean that this stuff is, it could just be that they found a better alternative (0 calories, no side effects) to the pumpkin extract they were using in pumpkin pure and decided to switch over to Bochasweet.

This isn't the first company to rebrand and change courses. It seems that Emerald Forest started off solely making Xylitol under XYLA, and then along the way, changed the brand to Emerald Forest when they started making erythritol and other sweeteners.
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Old 10-25-2017, 02:39 PM   #131
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Everyone, I posted early in this thread about finding the same thing, 1 sweetner fr BS and another from Pumpkin Pure that did say "xylitol". Both companies showed located in Nevada but different zip codes. Until some answers can be had, I wouldn't feed the BS to dogs, just to make sure. And when I ordered my BS the first time, it showed the company as Pumpkin Pure. ????????????????? And yes, in finding both as I stated above, the "xylitol Pumpkin Pure" was cheaper but when I clicked on it at Amazon, I was taken to a BS product, the pentose thing.
BS and xylitol have the same granular look and feel but taste is much more pure w/ the BS.

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Old 10-25-2017, 07:03 PM   #132
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I blended a bag of bochasweet for powdered sugar, and it came out really good! Turns out I didn't have any cornstarch in the house so that affected my desired texture a tad bit, but it definitely had a nice, clean sugary taste that I love so much. I ended up just using a bit of resistant starch and oat fiber to get that powdery consistency, and it worked out okay.

The only problem--and this is not the fault of the sweetener--is that it didn't quite meet the texture of real frosting, and that's probably because I have to use light butter and reduced fat cream cheese in order to cut down on calories, and the texture is just never going to be the same as using full fat butter, shortening, and heavy whipping cream to bring it all together. That's something I will have to live with because I'm certainly not going to work so hard to eat low carb and low calorie only to blow it all on frosting!

Anyway, two enthusiastic thumbs up. I will even say that the powdered texture is better than Whey Low (again, that stuff is actual sugar!) and it got finer than erythritol, Splenda or xylitol.

I'm really interested to know how it will work out as a glaze ...
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Old 10-26-2017, 08:41 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by JJJ'sMom View Post
Until some answers can be had, I wouldn't feed the BS to dogs, just to make sure.
Well, for me at least, that ship has sailed. Mr. Cat, unbeknownst to me, let her lick every bowl from the ice cream he ate till it was clean. Our Westie has a notoriously hinky gut, but she never missed a beat. No problems. Whew!

That's another reason why I believe that BS is not what we have come to know conventionally as xylitol. Perhaps it can be called that technically, but chemically, reactionally, it's a different animal. Not a chemist here, so I can't analyze the technical reason, but its results are quite different from those of the xylitol we know.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:58 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baricat View Post
Well, for me at least, that ship has sailed. Mr. Cat, unbeknownst to me, let her lick every bowl from the ice cream he ate till it was clean. Our Westie has a notoriously hinky gut, but she never missed a beat. No problems. Whew!

That's another reason why I believe that BS is not what we have come to know conventionally as xylitol. Perhaps it can be called that technically, but chemically, reactionally, it's a different animal. Not a chemist here, so I can't analyze the technical reason, but its results are quite different from those of the xylitol we know.
So glad she's okay!

Up until Bochasweet, xylitol was my all time favorite sugar sub, and this stuff performs differently. It just does. It might be a sugar alcohol, but chemically, I don't think it is xylitol.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:32 PM   #135
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Well, the dose maketh the poison.

I am very hopeful for BochaSweet and will use it regardless. I've used xylitol for years (in conjunction with several other sweeteners) with no problems. I've learned not to use it in treats I make for my daughter and her 2 little ones. The kiddos are sloppy and their little dog is a smart opportunist!

Thanks again to everyone working with this!
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:41 PM   #136
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Lol, at the comment "kiddos are sloppy and dog is opportunist"...........exactly what I do w/ my g'kids as they both have inside dogs.

FYI..........rec'd my 18 lb shipment of BS today. Didn't open the box and coulda smacked myself for not picking up a food container today when I was at a restaurant store but....so I pulled out some 1/2 gal jars to store it in, figured it was 1 lg bag. Nope, opened up the box and it's 18 1lb bags.........yay, easy way to store it. And talking about opptunistic dogs, my son drops off his beagle here daily for about 12hrs a day. I was gone most of the day and hubby didn't get the box in until after the son had picked up his dog. Omg, if you knew this beagle, like all beagles, they have great sniffers and love a challenge of something (this beagle still a puppy of 10 mos old) Said to hubby, praise the Lord Bo didn't get into that pkg, very expensive..........he said why, what's in it....$180.00 of that new sweetner that I told you about. Gotta try powdering some and see if it will make a royal icing, as in it will harden on a cookie.
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:54 PM   #137
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Baricat and all, we had someone in this thread ask her chemistry knowledgeable son about pentose, he couldn't really explain what it is. Evidently pentose is a 5 carbon something and xylitol is that. But as several of us here will tell you, there is a very different taste between BS and xylitol. Xylitol is good but does have a "taste". As someone in this thread stated, BS has a pure taste. Gonna post a link here to some info on 5 carbon pentose stuff, the most info I've been able to find yet, and hopefully Admin won't delete, I hopefully am allowed to post this. Hey Admin, get in BS and we'll order it from Netrition. Here's the link

http://weeksmd.com/2016/03/5-carbon-...entose-sugars/
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:39 AM   #138
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Ah HA, JJJ! Another piece of the puzzle...

No, I found no evidence to say it's the presence of moisture, or even liquid that dissolved it. When I introduced it into the melted chocolate, it was 100% fluid. That was my first theory, so I kept trying to melt it a little more and a little more, whisking vigorously after each try. Nope. No matter how loose it got, you could not only feel, but also see the floating and suspended grains of sweetener. No love.

BUT...

What I would be inclined to suspect very strongly based on what you said is that the acidity of the mayo is what was the agent that was responsible.

So my next test will be to put some in straight lemon juice, then dilute lemon juice, then mayo to determine if 1) acid is, indeed, the operational player here, and then 2) there is any difference as to the speed and efficacy with which it dissolves, directly proportional to the lowering of the pH of the receiving substance.

Oooooooooooo! Don't you just love a good mystery?!

So, here to report on the results of the experiments. As I suspected, it's the acid that denatures the crystalline structure.

1) Straight lemon juice: crystals dissolved almost on contact. No stirring needed.
2) Dilute lemon juice at the ratio of 8:1 water to lemon juice: dissolved with stirring, within 1 minute.
3) Mayonnaise: mostly dissolved in 10 minutes, with occasional stirring. In time, they did finally completely physically disappear and disseminate into the mayo.

In the case of JJJ'sMom dissolving it in her mayo, it's probable and likely that she had a much lighter concentration of BS than I did, stirred into much more mayo (I used about 1 tsp, with a goodly sprinkling of BS.) That would account for hers dissolving faster and becoming undetectable in her finished product quicker than I observed in my experiment.

But, now we have yet one more piece of the BochaSweet puzzle. BS is dissolved by means of heat OR acid. The speed with which it does so is dependent on the concentration of the acid agent.

Think of it as similar to how you can cook seafood. You can cook it by applying heat, or your can accomplish the equivalent, by "chemically cooking" it, meaning by application of an acid solution (as in a ceviche.) With the seafood, you are denaturing the protein content of the seafood by means of either heat or acid. With BochaSweet, you are either mechanically or chemically denaturing the crystalline compounds so they can then emulsify into your product.

So, the moral of the story is: If your product will be neither cooked nor exposed to a measurable amount of acid, (such as in the case of ice creams, chocolate bars) be sure to powder your BochaSweet.
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Old 10-27-2017, 10:16 AM   #139
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That's really cool, Cat! Thanks for experimenting and reporting on the results. Isn't this a fantastic community??
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:17 PM   #140
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It most certainly is that, Char! Love that there's a place where I can speak my language of choice (low carb) and no one acts like I'm speaking in tongues at worst, or just plain nuts, at best. I hate it when someone asks how I stay so thin while eating the goodies I do, how they can do it, I start to explain, and you can actually see their eyes start to glaze over. So many just want that quick fix diet. They don't get it, that there is no shortcut to good health and weight control. It simply takes every day commitment to adopting a forever lifestyle.

If someone is here, it's because they DO get it. LCF is hands-down the best resource on the web for those who are genuinely serious about changing their lifestyle for the (much) better. The sense of community and esprit de corps here is the (sugar free) frosting on the (low carb) cake! My kinda place.

Oh, and I just love culinary experimentation. I'm a major, unabashed kitchen geek. Recording the results here is my attempt to repay in kind all the countless posts that have helped me to learn and refine, and to make staying LC so unbelievably simple.

My humble thanks to each and every member who has posted on here. You make this forum as super wonderful as it is.
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:20 PM   #141
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Cat, I have to agree with Char. I have come to enjoy reading your posts on any subject, especially the sweeteners. In my years on LCF, there have been a succession of knowledgeable people whose threads always drew my attention and you are the latest. It's such a learning experience being here. I think, especially the sweetener threads are very interesting, because of the eternal quest to make desserts where people don't "taste the artificial sweetener". As for myself, my seemingly impossible goal is to get a good tasting SF chocolate. Bocha Sweet sure seems promising, but I will probably wait awhile to try it. My shelves are too full of sweeteners that I bought and didn't like so I want to go slow! Thanks for your experimenting!
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Old 10-28-2017, 06:10 AM   #142
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Kudos to Cat!!!
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Old 10-28-2017, 08:19 AM   #143
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Aw, good heavens, Judy and Ginny! . I'm blushing here. You are too kind.

It's really nothing in comparison to all the recipes, tips, little tricks and general advice I've picked up here. Sure, I did low carb before, but nothing on the level of what's on the pages right here. Bread? That meant cloud bread, and I ate so much of it early on, I can't abide it. Waffles with syrup? Brownies? Ice cream? Tortillas? What were those?? Fuggedaboudit.

Well, now I have all those and more in my arsenal, within easy reach. I knew nothing of the "designer ingredients" that make these possible before I got here. All this, and more, I owe to LCF, and phenomenal people like you two, and like Char, Dottie, Jhoberer, Sharon, Carolyn, cselzler, Angeloco, and a gazillion more. You have all impacted my life in wonderfully positive ways, and I will always owe far more than I can ever hope to repay.

I love this place!
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:12 AM   #144
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You cannot beat the folks here for camaraderie, good ideas, great recipes, and generosity in sharing their fails as well as their successes! We learn as much from the fails as the successes, maybe more!

I miss some of the old posters, some of whom have passed on - hdyhouse, Tooter, kevinpa - rest in peace, dear people. Also others whom I believe are still amongst us, but for one reason or another don't post so much or at all - Barbo (know she's been having health issues this year, miss you Barbo!), shawneesioux (an amazing baker), Jen Eloff (who is working on the last two in her Low Carb Cooking Among Friends books), others whose names are not coming to me right now (not enough coffee yet!) - but over the 13 years I've been here, I have learned SO much!

Cat, you better be here for the long haul, LOL!! Love your "can do" attitude on LC experimentation and your write-ups on your experiments is awesome!
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:27 PM   #145
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Char and Cat, I so agree with everything you said! I still go through Kevinpa's threads for ideas and recipes.
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Old 10-28-2017, 04:26 PM   #146
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OMG, Char! Thank you! How to cope with such high expectations? Why, of course I went into experimentation mode again today. Since BochaSweet works so well on sweetening chocolate, which up until now has been difficult to do well, I decided to showcase BS's unbelievably mad skillz with my all-time favorite bean.

My goal for today was to make a kickass chocolate syrup. It was much easier than I thought it would be. First attempt worked really, really well, in just a few minutes. It's a pure wallop of unadulterated, silky smooth, but unmistakeable, full-bodied chocolate flavor. Makes the low carb Hershey syrup taste like wallpaper paste in comparison. Here's how to do it:

*1/2 cup Dutch process cocoa (that's the only way to get a pure, smooth chocolate flavor. And just in time, Olivenation has free shipping through tomorrow night on all its cocoas, and they have an excellent selection.)
*2/3 cup BochaSweet (may add more to taste)
*1/4 tsp salt
*1/2 cup water

Whisk the first three ingredients together in a small saucepan. Gradually whisk in water until smooth. Place the pan on medium heat. Continue to stir while the mixture comes to a boil. Stirring constantly, boil gently for about 3 minutes, until thick. Remove from heat, and stir in:
*1/2 tsp vanilla extract

Cool completely. Store in a covered container.

I put mine in a $.97 Walmart squeeze bottle. Uses:

1) Use a spritz or two in your coffee for a decadent mocha flavor.
2) Mix with almond milk to the desired concentration for chocolate milk.
3) Heat almond milk in the microwave to desired temperature. Stir in the syrup for 1-minute hot chocolate.
4) Top your low carb ice cream with it.
5) Soften some low carb vanilla, salted caramel, or peanut butter ice cream. Put half into a container. Spread on a layer of syrup. Top with remaining ice cream. Lightly swirl (only once or twice, at most) if desired with a knife to make fudge ripple ice cream. Freeze a couple of hours at least before serving, to set the ripples distinctly.
6) Enjoy over Linda Sue's wonderful pound cake for a cottage pudding.
7) Rev up the flavor of your protein shake with a drizzle. Or two.
8) Speaking of drizzles, do that lightly over sliced strawberries.
9) Stir some into plain yogurt.
10) Make a showstopper presentation to showcase your baked dessert. Put some in a ziplock baggie. Snip a very tiny bit off one corner, and use it as a pastry bag. Starting at the center of the plate, make an expanding spiral, to the outer edge of the plate. Drag a sharp knife or a toothpick from the center outward to the edge, dividing the circle in eighths. For another design, you can alternate the direction you drag on each one - start from the inside out, and the next one from the outside in to the center, then back to the center outward and so on. Top this design with a piece of pie, cheesecake, pound cake, or whatever. Gorgeous! Or write a message above and below the centered piece, following the round contours of the plate, like "Happy Birthday!" Or "Congratulations, Charski!" or whatever occasion you're celebrating.
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Old 10-28-2017, 05:56 PM   #147
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Oh, and two more shout-outs for consistently helpful posts. Don't know how they slipped my mind (except that it's getting increasingly sieve-like these days.)

A big tip of the hat to EnglishLit and Soobee. I've learned a wealth from you ladies.
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Old 10-28-2017, 06:45 PM   #148
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Ok, a lengthy post on making royal icing w/ BS. I powdered a whole bag in my Cuisinart processor...........took about 3 mins total........Baricat and EnglishLit, did I process long enough?? Started using a sm. amt of BS to try this. 3 T. maybe, added in some vanilla, salt, 1/4 tsp lemon juice and a bit of egg white (1/2-3/4 tsp). Used the whip on my mixer, mixed 2 mins or so , cking for grains, stayed grainy. So I put into a some hot water in a pot, stirring and the granules started to melt, didn't get it very hot at all, only to the point of all granules being gone. Drizzled it on a plate to let dry, was already seeing it dry on the whip, I was excited. Kept cking it over the next 4 hrs, it did start to dry quickly that which was thinner but...........as it dried crystals started to form. As of this morning, very dry and crystalized and for some odd reason, literally had no sweet taste, really.........no sweet taste. The crystals were the size they are in the bag, really stuck to the plate, you had to run your finger across it in a rubbing motion to get the crystals to un-adhere. So this morning tried it it w/ milk, salt, vanilla. Stirred and let sit, cking at intervals, but after 20 mins or so , still crystals. So I heated it up in a pot of hot water and used some FiberYum to see if that would help it not to crystalize (not sure it would even harden, I use FY in some areas where xylitol might/has crystalized) Had to put some heat to the pot on the stove top to pull out all crystals, was very syrupy in texture and super sweet, so sweet that you couldn't eat it on pancakes. Pour it out on a plate. Stayed syrupy for hrs. Around 3pm still no change, at 6pm, I could see it was crystalizing and actually starting to harden from the syrup that it was, kinda odd. So now at 8:30pm, it's not a royal icing hard, but the crystals w/ this "FiberYum" aren't as large as the first I did. Feels hard to the touch until you press down and then you have some give a a slight moistness. And it's still verryyyyy sweet. 2 very different outcomes w/ the same product. But still no royal icing. Although this last thing would work on a cookie and if left out until it dries, you could stack the cookies I think, although if too high, the weight on top would tend to crush/smoosh as I described above.

Now bk to the question to Baricat and EnglishLit, would 3 mins processing have been enough to powder it? I did add 1 tsp of cornstarch to the batch when I processed.

Thks for the choc sauce Baricat, looks yummy.

And totally agree w/ all said about all the great help here at LCF and those who experiment and bring us great recipes. Being diabetic, Baricat and I have no choice but to eat LC, so it's great to be able to have sweets and keep our numbers where they should be..........thks all.

Last edited by JJJ'sMom; 10-28-2017 at 06:47 PM..
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Old 10-28-2017, 09:02 PM   #149
Baricat
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Stats: 240/116/135 Start:size 22, now size 0.
WOE: LC for control of diabetes
Start Date: January 2007. Have kept weight off over 10 years.
You said it, JJJ!!! The prospect of life without something sweet every now and then would be pretty darned dreary.

Wow! Those really ARE two very different results! Can't for the life of me figure out how the BS lost its sweetness! And that it recrystallized. You must be bummed! That's not happened to me yet, but it's still way early in the process of getting the hang of this new kid on the sweetener block. Is it possible that for the other ingredients, it wasn't enough BS to sweeten it well? And with the recrystallization, absolutely clueless why that happened. The only thing I have observed is that the temperature that it has to reach in order to denature the crystals is fairly hot. If not hot enough, crystals will form as it cools down. That's what happened with my first attempt at using BS in a chocolate bar.

As for if you powdered it long enough, I can't say, because I've never used a blender for powdering. With erythritol, I noticed that no matter how long I ran it in either of my food processors, a monster Cuisinart and a 2-cup Ninja, I could not get it fine enough. So I bought a coffee mill, a Krups, which does the job consistently and efficiently, with a super fine result that I just couldn't seem to get otherwise. The disadvantage is that you can only do small amounts at a time, maybe 1/3 cup. But it only takes about 30-45 seconds for each batch. So what it lacks in capacity is compensated with time and effectiveness.

Royal icing will probably be unusually tricky, as sugar is a major structural component in royal icing, and although BS tastes like sugar, I'd surmise that chemically/structurally, it's worlds apart from it. Taste and chemistry are two very different things. Baking and confection making are chemical processes, first and foremost. So whereas BS may sweeten like sugar, it's highly likely that it can't substitute for sugar in all applications.
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Old 10-29-2017, 11:36 AM   #150
Baricat
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Location: Sunny south Florida
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Stats: 240/116/135 Start:size 22, now size 0.
WOE: LC for control of diabetes
Start Date: January 2007. Have kept weight off over 10 years.
And because you can't have enough of a good thing...

Hot Buttered Chocolate Rum Sauce
(Pure decadence on a spoon!)

*1 stick (1/2 cup) butter
*1 cup BochaSweet
*1 cup heavy whipping cream
*1 Tb Rum, preferably dark
*1/3 cup Dutch process cocoa, sifted
*Big pinch of salt

In a saucepan melt butter.
Stir in the next 5 ingredients until smooth.
Stir over medium heat until boiling lightly. Lower heat somewhat, until you get a consistent, light boil, for 5 minutes, stirring occasionally.
Remove from heat.

*1/2 tsp powdered instant espresso (regular instant coffee granules are OK, too)
*1 tsp vanilla extract

Stir in these two ingredients until coffee is dissolved. BTW, you won't taste the coffee. It's just enough to lend yet another layer of complexity to underscore the rich chocolate flavor. If you want a true mocha flavored sauce, add an additional 1 to 1-1/2 tsp of coffee powder/granules.

While hot, spoon (or pour!) over ice cream or cake. If you want to taste the rum (the alcohol evaporates, leaving behind a rich, deep dimension to the chocolate, but you won't taste the it specifically) you may add another *2 tsp rum at this point for an adult version.

When I made the original full sugar version of this, it would last, covered in fridge for 4-6 weeks. Since BS has no nutritive value, it's likely to last at least that long under the same conditions.

It gets very thick when cold, so it will need to be melted back down to pour it again. (That is, if you can resist just grabbing a spoon and going for its cold, fudgy deliciousness, unadulterated!) I usually put it in the micro at low power (20-30%) for a couple of minutes, stir well, and that does the trick. Add more time, not power, if it hasn't come into a liquid state yet after 2 minutes and stirring. Just don't use high power, which could scorch the chocolate and create an acrid flavor. Low and slow.
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