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Old 04-04-2014, 05:43 PM   #1
Librarygirl
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Worried about my metabolism...

I just went to the EMTWL site, and was only there a few minutes. Obviously I haven't read it thoroughly at all. What I recognize though from some comments in the forum is the resounding attitude of restriction equaling overeating, or stalling/gaining/maintaining. According to JUDDD I eat more than 20% most days, but it equals out to less than my BMR...anyway, I just am so puzzled and confused about what I need to do or not do. I just want to throw my hands up. Thinking about mixing things up or experimenting, or anything other than *trying* to stick with JUDDD is overwhelming to me right now. I am stuck and I cannot seem to consistently eat low enough to lose any more weight. Is my metabolism screwed? I just don't know what I should be doing, nor am I motivated to try anything else. Taking any kind of significant break would put me well over what I'm maintaining now, and I don't think I could handle it. It looks like I'm never going to get anywhere like this...sick of trying to starve eod just to stay obese.

I guess I'm going to have to start exercising and stop making excuses. I am so tired lol.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:58 PM   #2
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I'm just sending lots of hugs
Does it help to write things out, like a pros and cons list of your different options?
Sometimes when I write things out and look at the facts on paper, in black and white, I can make a decision about how to proceed.

I know that JUDDD by the book worked for me and I am ever so grateful. Truly, I feel blessed that I didn't have to tweak and that super low DDs and uncounted UDs took me to goal and beyond, but I know you will find what works for you.
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JUDDD is very simple, very livable and very flexible. JUDDD allows weight loss and life to happen simultaneously.

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Old 04-04-2014, 09:51 PM   #3
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Cindy,
I havent really been keeping up with all the different discussions although I know this has been a struggle for you for a while. I am wondering, though, have you been keeping track of your intake to know where you're landing, calorie wise, or guestimating?
The reason I'm asking is that I quit tracking about 4 months into JUDDD but then I took that break over the summer and when I started back up again I wasn't tracking. I wasn't losing the way I thought I should have been and so I started tracking and - lo and behold - I was going over every single day. I'd lost my ability to guestimate.
I'm not saying you need to track and go back to JUDDD. But it might be a good idea to get a good baseline of where you're at depending on calorie intake to see how close you really are to BMR before deciding how to tweak.
Just a thought, and a possible jumping off point for discussion...
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:39 PM   #4
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Cindy, I do understand your frustrations. I was feeling exactly that way after I stalled and was feeling so restricted all the time. I will never regret how I have lost my weight, because it came off pretty steadily for a good long time, and I needed to get that weight off. But looking back, I do believe I slowed my metabolism, and had gotten into the trap of needing to go ever so much lower and lower, and feeling restricted on both DDs and UDs.

One of the things that I believe is pretty critical to the EM2WL routine is the exercise. The theory being that you basically are exchanging fat weight for muscle weight and recompositioning your body. While I think you could do it w/o the weightlifting and still heal a slowed metabolism, I would be afraid of just gaining fat. I think slowly adding calories back would be a better way to rev up your calories, rather than just diving in at the levels they talk about. That way your body could get accustomed and not just pack on pounds (like I did during my break - I hope some was muscle, but I have to face the fact that I did gain fat too.)

As they say in their information, EM2WL is not a quick fix. And most do gain weight, including fat, when they do the metabolism reset. It's a slow, long-term process and you have to be mentally ready for that. I feel like I am ready to lose at a rate of about 1 pound per week, especially if part of it is a muscle/fat exchange. But I'm in the very, very beginning stage and don't know how it's all going to play out. And I want to do it in the framework of JUDDD, which is a whole other monkeywrench thrown in.

What I can tell you is that I feel so much freer so far. I know I can have plenty to eat on UDs, and it's making DDs no big deal at all. Sort of like the beginning days of JUDDD where getting through the DD was no big deal because you got all you wanted the next day. That's NOT how I was feeling for the couple of months before my break.

I'm lucky, because I went through my "reset" by accident, just taking my break, so the gain is here and I'm ready to start losing again. I didn't have to go through that conscious "Oh my gosh, I'm going to gain" feeling because I already did! And I'm not thrilled with that, but it is what it is. If you're needing a change, and wanting to eat more while still changing your body for the better, then it may be worth looking further into it.

I'm here if you want to discuss this! By no means am I an expert, but I'm muddling through it, and am happy to share my experiences as I go along in the process.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:41 PM   #5
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Cindy . I don't have the answer; I wish I did. I didn't give a thought to metabolism before I had body fat testing proof that I wasn't losing and thought I should have been. I don't know if I've figured out why or not, or if my challenges are the same as yours.

What I'm seeing in what you wrote is that you really want to stay with JUDDD...you just want to start losing again. So maybe a small adjustment, based on what you think is the most likely culprit of what is not working. For me, I am guessing from two separate stalls under the same conditions that tightening up on eod fasting (fewer calories) and kicking the exercise up at the same time is not my fat loss friend, as much as you would think it would be. My experiment is to take a gentler approach. Do you notice any kind of trend like this? What does your gut tell you is the main challenge? I know how frustrating this is! You've shown such perseverance.
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Old 04-05-2014, 01:01 AM   #6
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What our minds want and what our bodies want are separate things in this matter. The metabolism appears to be more in line with the body's agenda and acting on its instructions.

Of course it's possible to lose weight following classic JUDDD: this board has several maintainers who did just that and there are others who don't participate here but do weigh-in elsewhere on one of the Maintain Lane threads. Joley (?) and others pop in from time to time.

This is causing you so much distress that, if you can ask for birthday donations or whatever, could you possibly get a body composition evaluation or RMR, just so that you know where you are? I'm beginning to be very gun-shy of responding to, "What can I do?" if somebody's having difficulties but we've no idea what the body composition is (which might prompt a different set of weight or health goals).

---------

The rest of the following is just justification for the above advice.

I had to do the potato hack and modify my macronutrients to get where I wanted. In retrospect, of course all of the kcal calculators were too high for me, I have an unusually scant amount of muscle mass for my age, never mind general activity level. In retrospect, again, of course I couldn't cycle a long distance (or even just 10miles) on a DD, I just didn't have the glycogen reserves in skeletal muscle to keep me going. (This is not the time for the physiological nuances between what Atkins people call 'fat-burning' and what that means in nutritional ketosis.)

My point is that, sometimes, we have to suspect that although we're always encouraged not to think about ourselves as 'unique snowflakes', sometimes, we are. However, there's no roadmap to help us discover in what way we are unique snowflakes and whether that's an endocrine matter that can be tweaked in a helpful way or must be endured.

I wish that I'd realised back in 2011 that I was having such a difficult time shedding weight (kcal restriction) that there had to be a problem. Alas, I allowed myself to be persuaded by public rhetoric that I must, in some way I didn't realise, be mis-calculating or a gnawing suspicion that peri-menopause was even more a a train wreck than I'd realised. So, I kept cutting and cutting, keeping the faith, until I moved at an eyelash at a time towards JUDDD in late 2011. But, by that point, I was already too low in food intake and JUDDD couldn't help me then.

So - you know the rest. Of course, with hindsight, I should have organised a BodPod/Dxa in 2011. But how much does that smack of financial privilege and completely over-thinking something as simple as weight loss when we All Know that it's a simple matter of, "Eat Less and Move More"? Plus, I was completely fed-up of thinking of myself in terms of broken or something needing to be rehabbed/fixed. (I was angry at that time at how long it was taking me to get back to 'normal' after the accident.)

I think it's absurd for Public Health guidance to harp on so much about weight loss without ensuring that body composition scans and BMR evaluation is available, pretty much everywhere, at nominal cost. I wince whenever I here somebody state a weight loss goal and they've no idea at all about their lean body mass and no specific plan to safeguard it.
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:23 AM   #7
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There are so many things that, it seems, can only be tested once we are in trouble. It would be good, for those of us who are actually willing to test and experiment, to know the crisis was coming before it actually hits.

Of course, I suspect in this world we are in the minority.
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JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post
Cindy,
I havent really been keeping up with all the different discussions although I know this has been a struggle for you for a while. I am wondering, though, have you been keeping track of your intake to know where you're landing, calorie wise, or guestimating?
The reason I'm asking is that I quit tracking about 4 months into JUDDD but then I took that break over the summer and when I started back up again I wasn't tracking. I wasn't losing the way I thought I should have been and so I started tracking and - lo and behold - I was going over every single day. I'd lost my ability to guestimate.
I'm not saying you need to track and go back to JUDDD. But it might be a good idea to get a good baseline of where you're at depending on calorie intake to see how close you really are to BMR before deciding how to tweak.
Just a thought, and a possible jumping off point for discussion...
I agree with this - calories do count. And sometimes you may think you're eating 4oz of chicken, when in reality it's 6. That's extra calories right there. I myself need to invest in a food scale - over on the calorie counting site I notice a common theme with weighing food. (insert a giant UGH right here, but it has to be done). I think they're on to something there.

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Old 04-05-2014, 04:30 AM   #9
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Cindy I read something interesting a while back and I'll pass it along in case it may work for you.
It was a general If forum, and one of the women was stalled forever.
She decide to shake things up - not by changing plans -but by changing the timing of her meals.
So on her "high" days, she would eat a normal sized breakfast (she said 300-400 calories), then a BIG lunch of about 1200-1400 calories and a small "snack size" supper of 300 calories, then have her normal "low" day the next day.
She said that the first "low" day was kind of rough and she went over her calories by 200 or so on most of her "low" days, but that her weight started dropping really fast as soon as she made this adjustment in the timing of her calories.
Now, she did not say if she was low-carbing(but she did say her usual "high" day breakfast was 2-3 eggs and 4 slices of bacon cooked in the bacon fat), and I never went back and read any updates (honestly I don't even remember the site name lol), but I remember filing that tidbit away for later use if I need it.
If you're willing to give it a go, I hope that helps

**editing as I remember more: she also said she always had a big green salad, no matter if it was a high or low day, and at least 1oz of vinegar, either on the salad or in broth or water.
Someone asked her what "big" was and she said 1/2 a head of iceberg, a whole romaine heart or half a bag of baby spinach.
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:03 AM   #10
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Two comments---

The first is that I am so very tired of 'metabolism' talk. Unless someone has an ED past and was anorexic for years, there is no metabolism 'damage' via eating or dieting (recovering anorexics have to be re-fed under medical supervision to help their metabolisms increase, so even they don't have any permanent issues).

I'm hypothyroid, and my endo discussed metabolism issues frequently with me when I was losing weight and later when I did JUDDD. The key to JUDDD is not to do consecutive DDs, and the alternate model would actually NOT slow the metabolism was a standard low-calorie diet might do. But even with a slower metabolism due to low intake, the difference is minuscule, according to my endo and would neither thwart weight loss nor be noticeable to the person.

As to JUDDD and not losing--in reading here, I've noticed a lot of people who either don't count and track on UDs or often eat over their calorie limit on UDs.
Personally, I lost steadily to goal because I tracked and counted both days. Moreover, I adjusted my UDs to my very slow metabolism [a genetic condition, according to my endo, NOT the result of eating less] so that I ate 430 DDs (at 250 lbs) and lowered it to 370 cal at 180 lbs according to the JUDDD calculator. I did not use the calculator for my UDs but used 1400 (later 1200) based on what I already KNEW were my caloric limits to lose. Calculators can't adjust to individual differences, but we can. Since I lost only a pound a week, clearly I wasn't eating too little.

But it was consistency and vigilance that helped me lose--just as it's now helping me maintain. Even though it's been almost 4 years since I got to goal, I still count calories when I plan my eating, as I did when doing JUDDD.
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:05 AM   #11
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No advice here, just a great big, heartfelt !

As you know, I'm taking a break from rotations right now. I'm following (loosely) the metabolism reset protocol from EM2WL - simply eating at maintenance calories based on TDEE for 12 weeks - and I'm doing great, maintaining well, with 1400-1700 calories every day. I honestly expected to gain and gain and gain on that. It's early days yet (started 3/24/14, so not quite 2 weeks), so I can't really say if it's helping to reset my metabolism or not. I'd like to push that up higher, and hope one day to be able to maintain on 2000 calories daily.

All that being said, I have to weigh and measure everything. It's just as restrictive as JUDDD. Yes, I get to eat every day, but I have to count and track everything, and this is just to maintain. I'm not even trying to lose.

IF, and I don't say this lightly, IF you are looking at EM2WL as a possible option, I recommend doing the metabolism reset for the full 12 weeks before you decide to cut calories to lose (they recommend 15% off of TDEE IIRC). You really need to find what your maintenance range is before you can start losing again.

If you're planning on staying with JUDDD, I have no other words of wisdom, as everyone has given great advice and you've been doing this long enough to know which advice applies to you and which does not.
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:18 AM   #12
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There has been a lot of good albeit worrisome discussion in the forum regarding lost muscle, lower metabolism and unreasonably low maintenance calories. As one with a lot to lose, I would like to avoid these problems if possible but also avoid stalling out before reaching my healthy weight. Post surgery it seems I was eating nonstop and losing (12 pounds in 3 weeks) from my presurgery weight. Apparently healing (incision cell repair which I think would be similar to building muscle) burns calories. Week four produced a rebound of 3 pounds which was gone after one DD. My next UD was an appetite check. I wrote down and ate everything I wanted. Only tracked calories at the end. It was close to 2800. No weight gain in spite of a lot of chips and some beer. Next DD another pound gone. If I did 2800/500 my average would be 1650, a slow weight loss number at my height and activity. My calculated tdee is 2240 which will be my UD goal for now but as I increade my activity I will increase my UD numbers to support increaded muscle. Sorry this long and personal but it is what I am taking away from your discussion.

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Old 04-05-2014, 06:20 AM   #13
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Typing on phone. Sorry for many errors
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:07 AM   #14
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Thanks everyone. I really hate to complain again, when I admit freely that I am not sticking to my UD numbers, or my DD numbers. I have felt that it was so restrictive, that I *should* be able to lose with a bit more calories. And I do, albeit extremely slowly--like a 2 lbs a month--if I never change rotations. However, life happens and rotations change frequently due to events and sometimes just because I cannot stand another DD. I think I'm going to try going down to 1800 on UDs, and 400 on DDs religiously and see where that takes me. I think I've been averaging 1900-2500 on UDs and 500-700 on DDs. Not a recipe for weight loss (for me), but still not effortless by a long shot. However, if I'm going to go to that much trouble to maintain, I may as well cut a few hundred cals every day to lose. I do not want to "reset" my metabolism, whether it's true that it is lower now or not. I haven't lost enough weight to be comfortable about putting back on 15-20 lbs. I am proud of my weight loss so far, and I look sooo much better. I cannot go backwards for any reason right now.

I am going to put some thought into what each of you suggest and/or recommend, and I hope that I can report something positive in the near future.
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:17 AM   #15
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Oh, and I do weigh and measure on DDs and I'm very aware of what calories are in what foods. On UDs, I'm not as strict about portions, but pretty sure about calories consumed, within 200-300. I guess what I need to do is approach my UDs exactly the same as my DDs and weigh/measure/count everything. Big sigh--time to walk the walk. Like bf says, "It is what it is."
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
There has been a lot of good albeit worrisome discussion in the forum regarding lost muscle, lower metabolism and unreasonably low maintenance calories....My calculated tdee is 2240 which will be my UD goal for now but as I increade my activity I will increase my UD numbers to support increaded muscle. Sorry this long and personal but it is what I am taking away from your discussion.
Your plan reads well and it should be straightforward to monitor if it's not working for you.

As for the rest - in a way, I understand that it's bewildering for or for people who need simplicity. The information may also be completely irrelevant to several groups of people such as those who already have a good diagnosis and understanding of their endocrine system and decent medical support (such as Leo41); or young people who are weight reducing for maybe the 1-3rd time in their lives and have all the advantages of both youth and none of the physiological differences/changes that Dr Berkeley describes in a person who is a POW or previously weight-reduced.

As I mentioned above, straightforward JUDDD is the way the majority of our maintainers attained their goals and it will meet the needs of many people who try it. The NSV thread contains many reports of improved health, better eyesight, and good blood panels. We have several people who have managed their pre-diabetes or diabetes into verified remission.

Whatever is happening during regular intermittent fasting on a JUDDD schedule, it has many benefits.

Beyond that, we all need to establish a WOE and schedule that allows us to grow older well. That's what some of us are working on in the absence of clear Public Health guidance that suits our various demographics. I wish the clinical research was in place to guide us, but it isn't. So, we experiment, we adapt, and (with luck and support from others who understand) we thrive. We're doing this in public and can only trust that it helps others rather than baffles or deters them.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:06 AM   #17
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Cindy- just wanted to add my support here. All of the responses were very informative and helpful. I feel your pain, I am at a similar place... except after two solid months of JUDDD, I not only haven't lost any weight, I have gained 5lbs. I am at the "I have no idea what to do here" stage. So reading the responses to your dilemma is helpful to me as well.

I would add that I feel the same as you... my numbers are probably also about the same as yours; just a bit too high for loss. But, like you, I feel like it is restrictive and that I am working hard to simply maintain (or gain some).

Keep us posted on your progress!

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Old 04-05-2014, 10:10 AM   #18
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Oh gf, I am just here to hug and love on you some more. I can't really offer any more advice that you haven't heard me say before. Blah blah, I counted meticulously UD/DD and stayed with my Juddd numbers. Maintaining, for ME, is still 99% strict rotations with usually low DDs (barring events, or me just being a bit mellower on weekends now) and for the most part, not counting UDs.

Honestly, if I wasn't losing while using my Juddd cals religiously, I probably would have bailed and come back for maintenance. <shrug> After trying different UD numbers strictly.

I don't know...but as always, I am ALWAYS ALWAYS here for you. You know how to find me!!
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
Thanks everyone. I really hate to complain again, when I admit freely that I am not sticking to my UD numbers, or my DD numbers. I have felt that it was so restrictive, that I *should* be able to lose with a bit more calories. And I do, albeit extremely slowly--like a 2 lbs a month--if I never change rotations. However, life happens and rotations change frequently due to events and sometimes just because I cannot stand another DD. I think I'm going to try going down to 1800 on UDs, and 400 on DDs religiously and see where that takes me. I think I've been averaging 1900-2500 on UDs and 500-700 on DDs. Not a recipe for weight loss (for me), but still not effortless by a long shot. However, if I'm going to go to that much trouble to maintain, I may as well cut a few hundred cals every day to lose. I do not want to "reset" my metabolism, whether it's true that it is lower now or not. I haven't lost enough weight to be comfortable about putting back on 15-20 lbs. I am proud of my weight loss so far, and I look sooo much better. I cannot go backwards for any reason right now.
You should be proud of your weight loss, in whichever form it came, through whichever method, and work hard to maintain it.

However, if you look at the best JUDDD success stories, those folks STUCK TO THEIR ROTATIONS. Counted, no switchups, very few breaks. JUDDD worked like a charm for me when I did that too. When I don't, I still lose, but slowly. When I rotate, I lose faster.

I don't know what else to say other than I think you know the answer to your own question. As you said above, and have said in other threads, sticking to calories and strict EOD rotations has been a struggle. I get it - its not easy. But clearly your body isn't ready to let go of pounds at the levels you're achieving with the higher days and the less than strict rotations. You lost when you were able to stick to the program - which suggests to me that it isn't necessarily a metabolism problem, but a mental one.
Ha, and now I'm calling you mental. Which is not at all intended the way it sounds...I went with "mental" because I'm digging the alliteration. Metabolism/mental...ha ha, get it?
I took a 6 month "mental health" break, so I feel ya sister! I lost about 1.5 pounds per month during my break so in that sense you're doing better than I did on my break!
Personally, I think you need to decide if you have the mental fortitude to revisit strict JUDDD rotations and, if so, try that before looking at any other tweaks. The sad fact is, we can't eat what we want and lose weight. Sucks, but that's life.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:24 AM   #20
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Cindy, I feel for you and am really hopeful that you'll find a good groove.

A friend of mine who is a general practitioner says that people come to him all day long hoping that both diagnosis and treatment are black and white. His feeling is that the truth is a long way from black and white more often than not. I think of this often during these discussions.

Thanks for adding to the collective chat. Passive health care (ie being told what to do by an unquestioned authority) is wonderful when I have neither the energy nor the intelligence to take responsibility for my own wellbeing.
Active health care (taking responsibility for my wellbeing, challenging the status quo when I have questions ) is more complicated for us but more rewarding in the end, I hope.
If Juddd works as written for everybody (without affecting metabolism, muscle mass, sleep, etc.), it'll become clearer with questions like yours and all these responses.
If Juddd can be improved in any way, even for a minority, your questioning will help us figure that out together.
So thanks. I'm so grateful for people who post when frustrated, stalled, fed up.
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post
You should be proud of your weight loss, in whichever form it came, through whichever method, and work hard to maintain it.

However, if you look at the best JUDDD success stories, those folks STUCK TO THEIR ROTATIONS. Counted, no switchups, very few breaks. JUDDD worked like a charm for me when I did that too. When I don't, I still lose, but slowly. When I rotate, I lose faster.

I don't know what else to say other than I think you know the answer to your own question. As you said above, and have said in other threads, sticking to calories and strict EOD rotations has been a struggle. I get it - its not easy. But clearly your body isn't ready to let go of pounds at the levels you're achieving with the higher days and the less than strict rotations. You lost when you were able to stick to the program - which suggests to me that it isn't necessarily a metabolism problem, but a mental one.
Ha, and now I'm calling you mental. Which is not at all intended the way it sounds...I went with "mental" because I'm digging the alliteration. Metabolism/mental...ha ha, get it?
I took a 6 month "mental health" break, so I feel ya sister! I lost about 1.5 pounds per month during my break so in that sense you're doing better than I did on my break!
Personally, I think you need to decide if you have the mental fortitude to revisit strict JUDDD rotations and, if so, try that before looking at any other tweaks. The sad fact is, we can't eat what we want and lose weight. Sucks, but that's life.
Actually, no I haven't. I have been as low as 172, but I haven't seen that number since...I don't know when. I am at about 175 after a DD and can't seem to get any lower...as I'm going. I think I hit that number in August or Sept. of last year, and I thought it took a very long time to get there lol. If I had known I'd still be there in April, I may have given up long ago. What keeps me going and hanging in there are those little rewards after DDs where I get a glimmer of hope and think, Yes I can do this! Then weeks later when i'm still seeing the same number, I realize I've only been fooling myself. It *is* mental. I think if I were in a different situation, in many ways (personally), and wasn't also struggling with menopausal symptoms, it would be very different. What I have to remind myself of frequently is, it could be a lot worse. I could still be at 207 or actually have *gained* 35 more lbs instead of losing them.
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Old 04-05-2014, 03:39 PM   #22
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Flutter and Kristen, you two always seem so strong and supportive. Thank you. I treasure each and every one of you here, and I feel like I know you. I hope I don't wear out my welcome here, guys!!
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Old 04-05-2014, 05:39 PM   #23
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Just dropping by quickly and don't have much time to really get into this but did want to give a virtual hug and say to hang in there. Any day we're not gaining is a good day in my book.

I did want to mention this, however, because it's the reason I don't worry about eating too little and damaging my metabolism, whatever that means:

"Nutrition scientists have put enormous effort into trying to evaluate the magnitude of reporting errors. They find that people underestimate their true calorie intake by astonishing percentages, typically 30 percent, with a range of 10 to 45 percent depending on such factors as age, sex, body composition, and socioeconomic status. Underreporting of food -- and therefore calorie intake -- increases with age and is greater among women, people who are overweight, and those of low education and income status. People also tend to exaggerate intake of foods they think are supposed to be good for health."

That's from this article at The Atlantic magazine. Why Calories Count: The Problem With Dietary-Intake Studies - Marion Nestle - The Atlantic

I have measured and counted very carefully in the past and then not so much. And when I go back to measuring I'm always shocked by how much bigger my portions are than what I thought. I'm also surprised at how I missed certain foods and how much they add up. So now I track as usual --- I just can't get so detailed that I'm obsessive about it --- but I assume an extra 2-300 calories.

When I was doing JUDDD I knew exactly what I was eating on DDs but I padded my UD count with an extra 250, just to be sure. Unless we are super precise in our measuring and cooking (forget about eating out) it's highly likely that we are eating at least a little bit more than we think we are.

It's something to think about (along with all the rest of this) in trying to figure out how to beat a stall.

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Old 04-05-2014, 06:48 PM   #24
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It's true, Locarbarella. I definitely had a eye-opening experience when I started JUDDD. I didn't feel that I had been eating all that much to have gained over 70 lbs from my ideal weight. Two (or more) factors were at work. My ability to eat whatever I wanted (call it metabolism or something else) was not was it once was. I literally *could* eat tons of calories most of my life, and not gain weight, until I couldn't. It seemed abrupt, but it probably was gradual. I know that I'm not eating anywhere near what I was on a regular basis, but I am eating more than most people who are trying to lose weight. I guess I thought I could beat the system, so to speak. Unfortunately, I cannot, but I do have a better attitude about it now and I also have a renewed conviction to begin weight training. Even if it is at home. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I realize that I didn't state the second factor lol. I also used to exercise pretty rigorously. I never embraced weight training like I should've, but I walked 2-3 miles most days of the week, and also took aerobics classes at a fitness center for many years. Needless to say, I stopped almost all of that.
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:45 AM   #25
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Hugs Cindy!

I have two thoughts:

1) menopause wrecks apparently unrelated hormones and physical processes. When it hit, I tried a lot of different WOEs (did not know IF back then, but did under 500 cal/day for days without losing). I finally decided until my body calmed down the best I could hope for was to not gain. Menopause ends.

2) I still remember months ago your description of how you reacted to various foods....since what you described mapped so closely to what happened to me, I still worry about your blood glucose levels. Have you had a physical recently? Did it include fasting blood glucose?

Hugs again. There is a way out of this. You are going to find it (and we are going to support and help you).
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

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Old 04-06-2014, 05:57 AM   #26
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I had a physical in October, Nancy and my fasting BG was 90 something. I have the paperwork somewhere at work. I don't know how long it takes for menopause to end--years I'm assuming. I'm off to Google it, lol. Thanks, Friend.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:59 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locarbarella View Post
Just dropping by quickly and don't have much time to really get into this but did want to give a virtual hug and say to hang in there. Any day we're not gaining is a good day in my book.

I did want to mention this, however, because it's the reason I don't worry about eating too little and damaging my metabolism, whatever that means:

"Nutrition scientists have put enormous effort into trying to evaluate the magnitude of reporting errors. They find that people underestimate their true calorie intake by astonishing percentages, typically 30 percent, with a range of 10 to 45 percent depending on such factors as age, sex, body composition, and socioeconomic status. Underreporting of food -- and therefore calorie intake -- increases with age and is greater among women, people who are overweight, and those of low education and income status. People also tend to exaggerate intake of foods they think are supposed to be good for health."

That's from this article at The Atlantic magazine. Why Calories Count: The Problem With Dietary-Intake Studies - Marion Nestle - The Atlantic

I have measured and counted very carefully in the past and then not so much. And when I go back to measuring I'm always shocked by how much bigger my portions are than what I thought. I'm also surprised at how I missed certain foods and how much they add up. So now I track as usual --- I just can't get so detailed that I'm obsessive about it --- but I assume an extra 2-300 calories.

When I was doing JUDDD I knew exactly what I was eating on DDs but I padded my UD count with an extra 250, just to be sure. Unless we are super precise in our measuring and cooking (forget about eating out) it's highly likely that we are eating at least a little bit more than we think we are.

It's something to think about (along with all the rest of this) in trying to figure out how to beat a stall.
Getting my kitchen scale was a real eye opener for me. I actually over estimated the calories in certain things and underestimated with others.

I now only use the kitchen scale on DDs, but I think it really helps me keep my DDs very precise and low, which gives me some extra wiggle room on UDs.
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:04 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarygirl View Post
It's true, Locarbarella. I definitely had a eye-opening experience when I started JUDDD. I didn't feel that I had been eating all that much to have gained over 70 lbs from my ideal weight. Two (or more) factors were at work. My ability to eat whatever I wanted (call it metabolism or something else) was not was it once was. I literally *could* eat tons of calories most of my life, and not gain weight, until I couldn't. It seemed abrupt, but it probably was gradual. I know that I'm not eating anywhere near what I was on a regular basis, but I am eating more than most people who are trying to lose weight. I guess I thought I could beat the system, so to speak. Unfortunately, I cannot, but I do have a better attitude about it now and I also have a renewed conviction to begin weight training. Even if it is at home. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I realize that I didn't state the second factor lol. I also used to exercise pretty rigorously. I never embraced weight training like I should've, but I walked 2-3 miles most days of the week, and also took aerobics classes at a fitness center for many years. Needless to say, I stopped almost all of that.
I too had not had a major weight problem until I hit middle age. Oh, I had battled 15-20 pounds or so, so I wasn't unfamiliar with dieting, but I'd always lost very easily and quickly when I put my mind to it. But as I got older I also I stopped being active and started sitting at my computer all day long. And the more I gained the more I ate. Like you, I woke up and found that I basically had a completely different relationship with food and exercise.

Some of that was psychological but I'm sure it was also the hormone circus associated with menopause. I know we've talked about this before, but I really think some of your issues are associated with menopause. I had a very rough time losing weight efficiently when I was in the throes of it.

Anyway, it was a big change for me too. I still miss being able to power eat the way I did in my youth. I love food. For me the main key has been to stick to a certain diet composition in order to keep my weight down and I made peace with that. But doing IF and weight training and healing gut flora and all the other fascinating stuff everyone discusses on this board are great tools to use singly or in combination to crack this nut.

And time. I think your body is resisting losing weight because it's changing in other, more fundamental, ways. So don't be so hard on yourself. The fact that you are maintaining a large weight loss is a huge accomplishment considering what you're up against. I'm quite sure you'll find the right combination of tools at the right time to kick start the next phase.

Just continuing to come here and discuss it with your support group proves your commitment. It'll click, I'm sure of it.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:17 PM   #29
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Cindy, just a hack, if you aren't allergic to nuts you could give eating raw unsalted unblanched almonds on your DD's a try. I can't provide links but if you peruse Pubmed there was a study done on almonds in a low calorie diet compared to a control group. The almond group was eating about 500 of their calories from the nuts and although both groups lost weight, the almond group had superior, quicker weight loss, without plateaus and the weight loss continued at end of study. Very impressive results.

The reason was supposedly almonds provide excellent satiety (after the initial novelty of eating nuts wears off they become very satieting) they are full of fibre, good fats - a perfect omega3-6 ratio, high magnesium, vitamin E, B vitamins etc. Secondly, it has been discovered that almonds are not wholly digested so up to 20% of the calories don't count i.e. your 300 calories from almonds are really in the order of up to 240, so energy is less. Doesn't mean you eat more nuts..lol...just that if JUDDD is all about the calories then if you are getting less well that's good. Just brain storming here.
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