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-   -   Dr. Westman speaks about No Sugar No Starch (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/recommended-reading/805837-dr-westman-speaks-about-no-sugar-no-starch.html)

emel 06-10-2013 10:33 AM

Dr. Westman speaks about No Sugar No Starch
I was looking for a project this morning, so I reviewed a video of Dr Eric Westman speaking about the Duke University New Atkins Ketogenic diet.

The video is 38 minutes long. I figured some folks might like the bullet points of the diet plan outline in it instead of watching the whole thing, so here you go:

--The biggest point is to stay under 20 g carbs.
--Fried is okay. Processed is okay, but watch the carbs. Says you can eat bacon, ham, cold cuts, etc as long as a serving is one gram carb or less.
--Ir you're hungry, eat from the food list (very similar to atkins induction).
--Stop eating when you're getting full.
--Eggs are perfect and are unlimited
--you must have 2 cups salad greens and one cup veggies from list. Use the size of your fist to approximate a cup.
--Veggie List: all of the salad green (he says if it is a leaf you can eat it).
artichoke, asparagus, cauliflower, celery, brussels sprouts, green beans, wax beans, mushrooms, okra, onion, pumpkin, cucumber, eggplant, leefs, peppers, pea pods, zucchini, jicama, shallots, snow peas, tomato, summer squash, sprouts
--Foods okay in limited quantities:
4 oz cheese, 2 T cream, 6 olives, 1/2 avocado, 2 T mayo, 2 tsp lemon or lime juice, 2 T soy sauce, 2 dill pickles
--says to eat 2 servings of bouillon a day for salt during the first two weeks while we transition to the new eating style.
--good snacks are pork rinds, ham and cheese rollup, devilled eggs
--carb master 4 g per serving yogurt, coffeemate in a pinch, and diet ocean spray cranberry 2 g carb/8 oz are examples of foods that aren't on the actual list but are okay as long as you count the carbs. Then he says about the coffee creamer that real foods are better, but that the creamer will do if cream is not available, but watch the hidden sugars/carbs.
-butter and salad dressings are fine but not the lite or reduced fat kind
--eat protein and fat when you're hungry. They signal fullness and the feeling of fullness lasts. Cheese for dessert turns off the appetite, so it is a good idea.
--sweets... he says any of the standard artificial sweeteners are fine. He cautions to limit sugar alcohols because they can cause stomach upset.
--tictacs, sf gum, etc can stall you and can really add up in carbs
--there is no magic number of how much to drink. 3 cups of coffee is allowed, but caffeine consumption and using diet sodas is very individual. Some people can do well with including it but others cannot.
--alcohol... avoid it because the plan works better without it, but if you do want to imbibe there are ways to make it fit a LC plan.
--Quantities--can always eat fat and protein, no calorie limit. Eat real food. Listen to your body. When you start feeling full, stop eating.
A restaurant meal is often twice what he is comfortable eating, so he doggie bags half of it.
--He mentions LC ketchup and other LC recipes and says they are fine if you stay within the carb limit.
--you want 10 carbs to come from your veggies. (so I infer that he acknowledges that you can obtain 10 more carbs from processed meat, cheese, salad dressing, etc).

ETA it is possible that I missed something from the veg list. He talked really fast at that part. I think he said carrots were okay.

Aleina 06-10-2013 10:37 AM

Excellent bullet points.Thank you very much for doing that. Even if you watch the video it is nice to have such a concise listing.

dawnyama 06-10-2013 10:44 AM

:jumpjoy: Thanks emel!! The "no sugar no starch" in the title had me thinking about P3 ;) Can you tell I am going to start another round? :hyst::hyst: Loading today and tomorrow for me.

Suncharm 06-10-2013 01:35 PM

Thank you for breaking this down into a nice neat package for us :)

Mamatomany 06-10-2013 01:41 PM

Do you know if it is net carbs that is 20 g...?

emel 06-10-2013 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by Mamatomany (Post 16464325)
Do you know if it is net carbs that is 20 g...?

Short answer: He didn't mention net carbs versus total carbs. I infer that he means total carbs.

Long answer:
But I don't think it matters much if you follow the rules of eating the two cups of greens and 1 cup other veg in those specific quantities, choosing real foods whenever possible,and limiting sugar alcohols. The reason I say that is because what's left to deduct to get net carbs is fiber, and there is very little fiber in sweeteners, processed meats, dressings, etc.

If you follow the limits on veg, cheese, mayo and dressing, etc and sugar alcohols, and eating to satisfaction and not beyond, there's not that much difference between doing it net carb or total carb (because pretty much only veggies have fiber). One exception I can see is flax/almond flour/coconut flour and nuts. But they aren't on the food list for the plan, so it wouldn't come up.

Mamatomany 06-10-2013 02:02 PM

can you put a link up for the food list for this plan?

emel 06-10-2013 02:09 PM


Originally Posted by Mamatomany (Post 16464355)
can you put a link up for the food list for this plan?

I can't. I had to wade through a 38 minute video to get the plan. I took notes and then I posted it here.
And I believe I found a .pdf with a different version of the plan awhile back. If I run across it, I'll post it, but if I recall, it was just a food list without any of the tips such as adding diet 2 carb cranberry juice.

The video is here:
"No Sugar, No Starch" Diet Overview: A Version of a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet on Vimeo

rubidoux 06-10-2013 02:14 PM

Did he say what the secret is about the cheese? I want a good reason to have a little dessert cheese every night. :)

emel 06-10-2013 02:15 PM

Well lookie here, it was easy to find. It is an appendix entry in Taubes' "Why we Get Fat". If it isn't the exact same plan, it's darn close. I had to download it from the link, so I don't want to link to it, in case that's not cool with TOS of this site.


Lifestyle Medicine Clinic
Duke University Medical Center

This diet is found in the Appendix of the book Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes and is an example of a low carbohydrate diet.

"No Sugar, No Starch" Diet: Getting Started
This diet is focused on providing your body with the nutrition it needs, while eliminating foods that your body does not require, namely, nutritionally empty carbohydrates. For most effective weight loss, you will need to keep the total number of carbohydrate grams to fewer than 20 grams per day. Your diet is to be made up exclusively of foods and beverages from this handout. If the food is packaged, check the label and make sure that the carbohydrate count is 1 to 2 grams or less for meat and dairy products, 5 grams or less for vegetables. All food may be cooked in a microwave oven, baked, boiled, stir-fried, sautéed, roasted, fried (with no flour, breading, or cornmeal), or grilled.


Meat: Beef (including hamburger and steak), pork, ham (unglazed), bacon, lamb, veal, or other meats. For processed meats (sausage, pepperoni, hot dogs), check the label carbohydrate count should be about 1 gram per serving (and be organic if able and nitrate free).

Poultry: Chicken, turkey, duck, or other fowl.

Fish and Shellfish: Any fish, including tuna, salmon, catfish, bass, trout, shrimp, scallops, crab, and lobster (no farmed seafood, there are to many toxins in them).

Eggs: Whole eggs are permitted without restrictions.

You do not have to avoid the fat that comes with the above foods.
You do not have to limit quantities deliberately, but you should stop eating when you feel full.


Salad Greens: 2 cups a day. Includes arugula, bok choy, cabbage (all varieties), chard, chives, endive, greens (all varieties, including beet, collards, mustard, and turnip), kale, lettuce (all varieties), parsley, spinach, radicchio, radishes, scallions, and watercress. (If it is a leaf, you may eat it.)

Vegetables: 1 cup (measured uncooked) a day. Includes artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, celery, cucumber, eggplant, green beans (string beans), jicama, leeks, mushrooms, okra, onions, pepper pumpkin, shallots, snow peas, sprouts (bean and alfalfa) sugar snap peas, summer squash, tomatoes, rhubarb, wax beans, zucchini.

Bouillon: 2 cups daily—as needed for sodium replenishment. Clear broth (consommé) is strongly recommended, unless you are on a sodium-restricted diet for hypertension or heart failure.


Cheese: up to 4 ounces a day. Includes hard, aged cheeses such as Swiss and Cheddar, as well as Brie, Camembert blue, mozzarella, Gruyere, cream cheese, goat cheeses. Avoid processed cheeses, such as Velveeta. Check the label; carbohydrate count should be less than 1 gram per serving.

Cream: up to 4 tablespoonfuls a day. Includes heavy, light, or sour cream (not half and half).

Mayonnaise: up to 4 tablespoons a day. Duke's and Hellmann's are low-carb. Check the labels of other brands.

Olives (Black or Green): up to 6 a day. Avocado: up to 1/2 of a fruit a day.

Lemon/Lime Juice: up to 4 teaspoonfuls a day.

Soy Sauces: up to 4 tablespoons a day. Kikkoman is a low carb brand. Check the labels of other brands.

Pickles, Dill or Sugar-Free: up to 2 a servings a day. Mt. Olive makes sugar-free pickles. Check the labels for carbohydrates and serving size.

Snacks: Pork rinds/skins; pepperoni slices; ham, beef, turkey, and other meat roll-ups; deviled eggs.

On this diet, no sugars (simple carbohydrates) and no starches (complex carbohydrates) are eaten. The only carbohydrates encouraged are the nutritionally dense, fiber-rich vegetables listed.
Sugars are simple carbohydrates. Avoid these kinds of foods: white sugar, brown sugar, honey, maple syrup, molasses, corn syrup, beer (contains barley malt), milk (contains lactose), flavored yogurts, fruit juice, and fruit.
Starches are complex carbohydrates. Avoid these kinds of foods: grains (even "whole" grains), rice, cereals, flour, cornstarch, breads, pastas, muffins, bagels, crackers, and "starchy" vegetables such as slow-cooked beans (pinto, lima, black beans), carrots,
parsnips, corn, peas, potatoes, French fries, potato chips.

All fats and oils, even butter, are allowed. Olive oil and peanut oil are especially healthy oils and are encouraged in cooking. Avoid margarine and other hydrogenated oils that contain trans fats.

For salad dressings, the ideal dressing is a homemade oil-and-vinegar dressing, with lemon juice and spices as needed. Blue-cheese, ranch, Caesar, and Italian are also acceptable if the label says 1 to 2 grams of carbohydrate per serving or less. Avoid “lite” dressings, because these commonly have more carbohydrate. Chopped eggs, bacon, and/or grated cheese may also be included in salads.

Fats, in general, are important to include, because they taste good and make you feel full. You are therefore permitted the fat or skin that is served with the meat or poultry that you eat, as long as there is no breading on the skin. Do not attempt to follow a low-fat diet!

If you feel the need to eat or drink something sweet, you should select the most sensible alternative sweetener(s) available. Available alternative sweeteners are: Splenda (sucralose), Nutra-sweet (aspartame), Truvia (stevia/erythritol blend), and Sweet ‘N Low (saccharin). Avoid food with sugar alcohols (such as sorbitol and maltitol) for now, because they occasionally cause stomach upset, although they may be permitted in limited quantities in the future. (Would recommend you stay away from all artificial sweeteners if able or use Stevia, Dr. Craig)

Drink as much as you would like of the allowed beverages, do not force fluids beyond your capacity. The best beverage is water. Essence-flavored seltzers (zero carbs) and bottled spring and mineral waters are also good choices.

Caffeinated beverages: Some patients find that their caffeine intake interferes with their weight loss and blood sugar control. With this in mind, you may have up to 3 cups of coffee (black, or with artificial sweetener and/or cream), tea (unsweetened or artificially sweetened), or caffeinated diet soda per day.

At first, avoid alcohol consumption on this diet. At a later point in time, as weight loss and dietary patterns become well established, alcohol in moderate quantities, if low in carbohydrates, may be added back into the diet.

Eat when you are hungry; stop when you are full. The diet works best on a "demand feeding" basis—that is, eat whenever you are hungry; try not to eat more than what will satisfy you. Learn to listen to your body. A low-carbohydrate diet has a natural appetite-reduction effect to ease you into the consumption of smaller and smaller quantities comfortably. Therefore, do not eat everything on your plate just because it's there. On the other hand, don't go hungry! You are not counting calories. Enjoy losing weight comfortably, without hunger or cravings.
It is recommended that you start your day with a nutritious low-carbohydrate meal. Note that many medications and nutritional supplements need to be taken with food at each meal, or three times per day.

The following items are NOT on the diet: sugar, bread, cereal, flour-containing items, fruits, juices, honey, whole or skimmed water, milk, yogurt, canned soups, dairy substitutes, ketchup, sweet condiments and relishes.
Avoid these common mistakes: Beware of "fat-free" or "lite" diet products, and foods containing "hidden" sugars and starches (such as coleslaw or sugar-free cookies and cakes). Check the labels of liquid medications, cough syrups, cough drops, and or other over-the-counter medications that may contain sugar. Avoid products that are labeled "Great for Low-Carb Diets!"

What does a low-carbohydrate menu look like? You can plan your daily menu by using the following as a guide:

Meat or other protein source (usually eggs)
Fat source —This may already be in your protein; for example, bacon and eggs have fat in them. But if your protein source is "lean," add some fat in the form of butter, cream (in coffee) or cheese.
Low-carbohydrate vegetable (if desired)—This can be in omelet or a breakfast quiche.

Meat or other protein source
Fat source - If your protein is "lean," add some fat, in the form of butter, salad dressing, cheese, cream, or avocado.
1 to 1 ½ cups of salad greens or cooked greens
½ to 1 cup of vegetables

Low-carbohydrate snack that has protein and/or fat.

Meat or other protein source
Fat source—If your protein is "lean," add some fat in the butter, salad dressing, cheese, cream, or avocado. 1 to 1½ cups of salad greens or cooked greens
½ to 1 cup of vegetables

A sample day may look like this:

Bacon or sausage

Grilled chicken on top of salad greens and other vegetables, with bacon, chopped eggs, and salad dressing

Pepperoni slices and a cheese stick

Burger patty or steak
Green salad with other acceptable vegetables and salad dressing
Green beans with butter

Start by checking the nutrition facts.

• Look at serving size, total carbohydrate, and fiber.
• Use total carbohydrate content only.
• You may subtract fiber from total carbohydrate to get the "effective or net carb count." For example, if there are 7 grams of carbohydrate and 3 grams of fiber, the difference
yields 4 grams of effective carbohydrates. That means the effective carbohydrate count is 4 grams per serving.
• No need to worry—at this point—about calories or fat.
• Effective carbohydrate count of vegetables should be 5 grams or less.
• Effective carbohydrate count of meat or condiments should be 1 gram or less.
• Also check the ingredient list. Avoid foods that have any form of sugar or starch listed in the first 5 ingredients.

Sugar by any other name is still sugar!
All of these are forms of sugar: sucrose, dextrose, fructose, maltose, lactose, glucose, honey, agave syrup, high-fructose corn syrup, maple syrup, brown-rice syrup, molasses, evaporated cane juice, cane juice, fruit-juice concentrate, corn sweetener.

emel 06-10-2013 02:16 PM


Originally Posted by rubidoux (Post 16464370)
Did he say what the secret is about the cheese? I want a good reason to have a little dessert cheese every night. :)

He said the French have traditionally eaten a dessert of cheese, and it is a good idea because it curbs appetite. He mentioned it in one of the sections where he said, "If you're hungry, eat fat and protein". No other secret other than plain old satiation.

emel 06-10-2013 02:20 PM

Sorry to post again, but I do see some differences in the plan I just posted and what I saw in the video. The quantities of some things (like mayo and lemon juice) are different, for one thing.

Note that the pasted version specifies total carbs, not net.

Suncharm 06-10-2013 04:45 PM

Thank you!

skot123 06-11-2013 10:24 PM

Exactly what i was looking for
My doctor had recommended I read the Art and Science of Low Carb Living/Performance

These books are fantastic of relaying the science, but they don't give a good day to day action plan.

This video was exactly what I needed...thank you so much for sharing it (in fact I registered to make this reply)

FYI...looking for "Page 4" I came across this quote on Dr Westman's facebook page


Unfortunately I cannot email or distribute "Page 4" to individuals, but "Page 4" can be found in Gary Taubes' book "Why We Get Fat and What to do About it"...
This means emel's additional quote was perfect!

berighteous 06-12-2013 09:48 PM

The youtube video has amazon links to "page 4" it's $4.95 or something. Funny, I randomly found the video a yesterday before even coming on here.

emel 06-13-2013 05:24 AM

Welcome to LCF, skot!

KnotDreams 06-13-2013 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by Mamatomany (Post 16464325)
Do you know if it is net carbs that is 20 g...?

Just watched the video. In the very last line he mentions that there are two ways to count carbs (total and net) and he is teaching them to use the total carb method.

Thanks, Emel for the link to the video. I played it in the background as I was doing other things, and then had to stop several times to listen again when he said something that caught my interest. I like his no-nonsense approach--"if it's not on page 4, don't eat it". And the TicTac story is a great example of how such a little cheat can totally derail weight loss.


Mom2AandE 08-17-2013 12:50 PM

These plans are almost identical to the plan my doctor has me on. I can go up to 30 total carbs though. She gave me a print out of foods to avoid and carrots are on the list because they are high in carbs.

My problem is that I don't like vegetables so I don't even have an appetite for them. I will do green beans and some salad greens.

She also had me buy The Calorie King's Fat and Carb Counter Book so that I can look up carb counts of foods so I can keep track. I do ignore the calorie and fat counts of the foods.

LoriWants2Lose 06-17-2014 10:53 PM

Page 4 in another YouTube Video. It was listed in the description under the original video.


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