Book Discussion: The Other Boleyn Girl

[mjais]

other boleyn girl.jpg
The Other Boleyn Girl
By Philippa Gregory

Week #1: Reading/Discussion: Pages 0 - 100
May 21st - May 27th

I'm looking forward to reading and discussing our book selection - "The Other Boleyn Girl'.

Note: You are welcome to read beyond the weekly assigned readings if you want, but please don't spoil anything for the other readers in your comments. Thanks.

[mjais]

Here are some photos of some of the main characters/setting of the book.
I thought it'd be interesting to see what they looked like.

mary.jpg
Mary Boleyn

Henry VIII.jpg
King Henry VIII

anne.jpg
Anne Boleyn

Hampton Court.jpg
King's Court - Hampton Court

[skoolmarm729]

Thanks for the pics. It's funny because it's hard for me to picture the characters looking like this- I keep picturing the sexy actors from the Hollywood movie!

[mjais]

I don't see a resemblance between the actors and the real people either. lol

'My greatest dread was that they would have a better marriage for her than I had made, that I would have to follow the hem of her gown as she swept ahead of me the rest of my life.' pg12

'I looked over to Anne. She was untying her mask and and watching me with a long calculating look, the Boleyn look, the Howard look that says; what has happened here and how may I turn it to my advantage?' pg 25

It's obvious right away that this family is ambitious and has their sights set on social climbing. Anne is definitely scheming. She sounds like she's capable of anything.

[skoolmarm729]

"Ambitious" is probably an understatement for this family, seriously. I have been conflicted since the beginning about Mary's role in all of this. Is she a child-victim or is she equally hungry for power as her family? I have to constantly remind myself that she is a child, but her voice and her mind are much, much older. I am also conflicted as to why she is not terrified of him. The book opens with her own uncle being killed by his own hand- how can she fall so deeply and instantly in love with him? I understand that he is the King of England... but she is a child, shouldn't she be a bit intimidated by his presence? She quickly falls in love with him and does not recall the incident with her uncle. Perhaps, that is another sign of her childlike innocence, maybe.

I completely agree that Ann is capable of anything. I find that this would be a miserable family to be apart of. There is no genuine love or concern for one another. This is a very dangerous situation for everybody involved. Nobody can be trusted.

[mjais]

It is difficult to feel any empathy for most of the Boleyn clan. The father is not only encouraging Mary to have an affair with the King, but he has asked her brother and sister help her to become King Henry's mistress and is getting Mary's husband to go along with it.

As much as Mary is blinded by the perks of being the king's mistress, I do think she has some genuine feelings toward him. She is aware of the pain and humiliation her affair is causing the Queen. At this point, she seems more like a naive, lovestruck teenager than truly calculating to me.

'I felt no triumph at all. I looked across the richly carpeted tent at
a woman old enough to be my mother and felt nothing but pity for the
pain I would cause her.' pg 46

I'm surprised none of the characters reacted more strongly to Mary's uncle's execution and/or the King's apparent ruthlessness. King Henry will stop at nothing to get what he wants and will get rid of anything and anyone who stands in his way. Mary's naive and hasn't thought about the "consequences" of what can happen when the king falls out of lust with her.

[Jessi]

Oh yes...the family is totally engrossed in being involved with the royal family and getting ahead, as much as possible....cold and heartless stuff...this is their entire life goal, no matter who gets hurt in the process. I am almost through with the book....just couldn't help myself. But I will not be giving away the story here. It is just so interesting that I am zipping through it. It is hard to put down. I have less than 100 pages left.

I was annoyed when s e x was interjected into the book, since I believed it to be "cleaner". But I love the story anyway. I just ordered the other book by same author about this family, "The Boleyn Inheritance". It is about the main several women in the book, telling their stories through the years, whereas The Other Boleyn Girl is told in the words of Mary Boleyn, Anne's sister.

Be back soon. Hope everyone is haveing a great week-end.

[Jessi]

Reading this book has impelled me toward reading some history about the real characters. The book seems to go by true history quite strongly. I like this fact, since we can know that it is fictional, but real life at the same time. I have to hold back on some of my research, since I don't want to know the ending of the book too soon. back later...Happy Saturday!

[scrappychik]

I didn't realize we had started the new thread I have read the first 100 pages and am loving the book!! I will check back in later when I have more time

[skoolmarm729]

"Shall you be keeping your present quarters for much longer, d'you think? Or will you want me as a bedfellow again?" William to Mary p. 101

The more I read on, the more it is apparent that no feelings, emotion, or actions are sincere during this time. Everything seems to be an act- simply living life to please the king. Didn't anybody feel the need to truly love or hate? This has to be a very frustrating way to live.

mjais- maybe Mary has not thought about the consequences, but she does know to some degree that his feelings toward her may be lost at any given moment, "... and if you catch his eye and smile, then it will be you again." I remember what it was like to be in "puppy love" or first love when I was Mary's age and it was pretty painful and traumatic. I cannot imagine for a second what it must be like to have your emotions ripped to shreds in this way as a young teenager. All that emotional baggage AND the stress of it being a sexual relationship as well is just TOO much for a teenager. I guess I answered my question from my earlier post, I am pretty confident that I do believe that Mary is a child-victim in this story.

Jessi- you are correct- it is hard to stop reading. I can't help it either! I am not as far ahead as you, but pretty far- page 287.

[mjais]

It'll be interesting to see how Mary develops and grows as a person and how she views things by the end of the story. I was pleasantly surprised during her exile to the family farm. She realized that she could live without life at court if it comes down to it.

The rivalry between the sisters is quite intense. As much as Anne is 'helping' Mary with King Henry, I can't shake the feeling she's bidding her time.

I also thought about King Henry's growing concern to have an heir. I remember reading in a biography that Prince Charles, the current heir apparent to the throne, was under some pressure to marry and produce 'an heir and a spare' around the time he married Diana, Princess of Wales. I don't know if this is true or not, but it does make it sound somewhat clinical though, doesn't it?

I've finished the reading for this week and I'm enjoying this book.

[wannabe]

I know I'm not in this book club, but I just wanted to say how much I loved this book. I could not put it down. I can't wait to read the others in the series.

[KQT]

i'm happy i found this thread! i just started this book about a week ago and i can't put it down, i'm around pg. 275 or so. i haven't seen the movie but will be renting it as soon as i'm done with the book.

from this far, it's obvious the king does have an affection towards Mary, but I can't help but wonder what's going to happen in the next couple hundred of pages as far as his endeavor to have a son, and what's going to happen that will turn the king onto Anne...?

I love their brother, George. They have an interesting relationship with him.

[skoolmarm729]

wannabe- even though you've read this, feel free to jump in and add anytime!

KQT- WELCOME!!! We all agree with you that this book is so hard to put down! mjais and I plan on watching the movie when we are done as well. We'd like to share and compare notes. Please join us for this as well!

You mention that the King seems to "have an affection towards Mary". I see this too, but because it's obvious that everyone has the goal of living to please the King and the King has the goal of making an heir-- it's hard to know who has has genuine feelings, affection, etc. I really don't believe anybody's words or actions. Stupid question: Do people still live like this today?!!? I know NOTHING about this time period or royal families in general!

I also love their brother, George. Indeed, the relationship they have with him is truly "interesting". I can't say much more than that as others are not as far as you and I KQT!!

Welcome again!!

[mjais]

Wannabe: Hi! Thanks for dropping by and commenting. I've heard that a few of the other books in the series are even better than 'The Other Boleyn Girl'. Please feel free to comment during our weekly discussions, if you'd like.

KQT: Hi and Welcome! Glad to have you join us for the book discussion.

Skoolmarm: The medieval court has evolved since King Henry VIII's reign. It's now the Royal Household and below is a link to the official page/video, if anyone would like to check it out.

What hasn't changed is the expectation/duty of the royals to produce an heir(s) to ascend to the throne.

The Monarchy Today > The Royal Household > Royal Household departments

[KQT]

i plowed through another 50 pages last night.

as americans we surely aren't betrothed to each other, but there are other countries in the world that still have arranged marriages... india, perhaps? (i totally know know where) it's interesting to put yourself in their shoes and try to imagine life the way that they had to live it, even down to the corsets and chamber pots.

this far into the reading, mary is definately starting to grow on her own and realize this life might not be what she wants, she seems tired of all the courting and scandal, whereas anne is playing into the role rather well at this point. anne sure has a mean streak within her, though!

[mjais]

Book Worm.jpg

Wk. #2 Discussion: Pgs. 101 - 201
May 28th - June 3rd

Note:
Starting with next week's discussion, I'd like to increase the discussion pages from 100 pgs per wk to 150 per wk. Please let me know if this will work for you.

[mjais]

Anne's plans to marry Lord Percy and become a duchess have failed and been blocked by Wolsey. Even after she tells her family that she loves Percy, their reaction is so cold.

'You are a fool. You can't fight Wolsey. There isn't a man in the country who is a match for Wolsey. And we won't risk his enmity'. Pg 142

'Everything we are striving to do with Mary will be overset if we support you. This is Mary's chance, not yours. We won't have you spoil it. We'll have you out of the way for the summer at least, perhaps for a year.' Pg 142

[Jessi]

Originally Posted by KQT

i plowed through another 50 pages last night.

as americans we surely aren't betrothed to each other, but there are other countries in the world that still have arranged marriages... india, perhaps? (i totally know know where) it's interesting to put yourself in their shoes and try to imagine life the way that they had to live it, even down to the corsets and chamber pots.

this far into the reading, mary is definately starting to grow on her own and realize this life might not be what she wants, she seems tired of all the courting and scandal, whereas anne is playing into the role rather well at this point. anne sure has a mean streak within her, though!

Hi everyone! I finished the book several days ago, and really enjoyed it. I am an extreme booklover, and when I find one this good, I can't help but plow through fast. I am now waiting for "The Boleyn Inheritance" to come in from e-Bay. It is narrated by several of the main female characters in our present book. I certainly think this author is an excellent one.

Yes, Anne does have a very mean streak! I didn't feel any true love or caring on her part at all. I'm sure the author stretched that idea, but it was sad. The king's household (and it seems like the entire country) were all entirely focused on pleasing him. This was the main goal of everyone...to please him, make him happy and gain his favor. I was surprised at how far Mary and Anne's family took this ambition! I never saw the least affection from the parents to their children.

I looked at some online drawings and history of King Henry VIII and some of the others from the story and he looked like I pictured him in my mind...husky, pouty-faced, stubborn.

Be back later. Happy Thursday...coming up soon. My dh is off Thursday and Friday and so I really look forward to those days. We usually spend more time with the kids/grandkids also. We are planning to meet my DS #2and his family for some visiting & dinner Thursday, and then my sister is cooking dinner for us all Friday night.

[mjais]

I'm currently on pg 158

Although the author mixes fiction and fact, one of the things I like about the book is the descriptions of daily life during this period in history. Now that Mary is pregnant, it's interesting to see how, as a pregnant woman, she is basically confined to her room/apt from the last month of pregnancy until 6 weeks after she will give birth. That's 2 and half months!

I do feel sorry for the Queen. She has tried so much to have another child with the King. She discovers she's in menopause and can't have anymore children (no heirs) around the same time that she finds out her husband's mistress is pregnant. That has to hurt.

***
Just a reminder (I'm not singling anyone out). Please keep in mind the pages we are discussing for that particular week when you post. By doing so, we will hopefully avoid spoiling the upcoming events/attitudes of characters for other readers. Thanks!

[scrappychik]

Hi everyone! I am up to Winter 1524. I always thought I would like to have lived during this time period. I was drawn to the fancy dresses and all the pageantry, but now I'm not so sure LOL Women are treated as objects and have very little say in anything. I can't believe how cold Mary's family is. They are only concerned with gaining favor and seem to be willing to do anything to get it. None of them has genuine feelings. Poor Mary! I feel sorry for her, so young and naive surrounded by people just using her to get what they want. I wonder though if it is possible for her to remain this way or if she will become like the others. I agree with MJ. The Queen must be dying inside knowing that she cant produce an heir, and as if that werent painful enough, she discovers that Mary is pregnant!

[Zib]

Hi, I hope you don't mind if I butt in here. I, too, loved this book, which was recommended to me by a friend. I then passed it on to my mom and to this day we are still chatting about it. We got into a series of readings, including "The Boleyn Legacy" and Margaret George's "The Autobiography of Henry VIII."

If you want to see a more sympathetic treatment of Anne, this is a good movie and it shows up on Turner Classic Movies. I've posted the link to the IMDB page for the movie, but won't use the title as when I mentioned it to a friend reading the book she said it was a spoiler for her. I didn't realize she didn't know the history of Henry's reign so had no idea how this played out. So if you don't know the history of Henry, don't click this link until you've finished the book.

[url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064030[/url]

The link is deliberately mangled as it shows the title if I don't mangle it.

Zib

[skoolmarm729]

Thanks zib for the link. Sadly, I know nothing about this time period- so I will not be clicking on the link!!

I can't help but give my heart full to the Queen. This is a horrible situation to be put in. She is cast aside for not being able to bear any more children and now she must watch her husband have an affair with another- and witness her pregnancy. This must be such torture! I have a goofy question: did women reach menopause earlier during this time? I keep thinking that the queen is not old enough- or is she this old and I just missed the other references along the way?

"I felt my eyes filling with tears at the thought of seeing Catherine again" p. 198. One of the most difficult aspects of all of this is how terribly Mary is suffering as she is unable to be with her child. The Boleyn's ambitious ways are extreme and abusive. This is all a choice they have made to behave this way, correct? On the same page, William describes to her how he wishes he could have had the courage to stand up to all of this and take Mary away to raise their family- this leads me to believe there was a choice in the matter. This makes their actions all the more worse.

[KQT]

Originally Posted by skoolmarm729

I can't help but give my heart full to the Queen. This is a horrible situation to be put in. She is cast aside for not being able to bear any more children and now she must watch her husband have an affair with another- and witness her pregnancy. This must be such torture!

my sentiments exactly. but she's handling it with such poise and confidence, i'm in awe of her regality throughout what she has to endure. props to the queen!!

i'm amazed at how women were treated. i know that's just the way it was, but to hear it from the girls' viewpoint, you really sense the emotion.

[mjais]

Zib: Hi! Thanks for the link and the comments. Please feel free to comment during our weekly discussions, if you'd like.

George 'outed' himself to his sisters (pg 188). I wasn't surprised, but it'll be interesting to see if and how his alternative lifestyle has any bearing on the Boleyn's master plan.

At this point in the story, it seems Mary is maturing. Motherhood has changed her. After having 2 children, she seems to view things differently and long for a life with her children and a man who will truly love her.

She gives Anne some very good advice about the King, but Anne won't listen. She's too ambitious for her own good.(pg 199)

'You look at the queen before you aim for her chair. You look at the suffering in that woman's face and ask yourself if marriage to her husband is likely to bring you joy".