4/17 Book Discussion: The Inheritance of Loss By Kiran Desai

[jezzie]

Originally Posted by mjais

I like the way the author uses this ( and other examples) to convey that what may seem
like a minor matter to one culture, may be of huge concern to another.

Like the Indian working with a Pakistani scene.
This culture sensitivity subject jumps out at me because of the relevance to my
own country.

Schoolmarm: Hopelessness and powerlessness seems to run through all the books
I have read so far by Indian authors. Not surprisingly I guess.

This week has been unusual. I'll try to be more of a contributor the last three weeks.
When real life gets in my way I tend to pick up a mystery novel - to escape.

[skoolmarm729]

jezzie- what country are you from?

I am a Mexican-American, but not "from" Mexico. I was born in the US, but have a strong connection to Mexico. Obviously, when people hear my very ethnic name (Alejandra) and meet me they probably make several assumptions about me. This makes my experiences different and makes how I see the world different, I think. I feel very American, live in a predominantly white, rural suburb, but I know that many people perceive me differently than they do white Americans. Most days it's easier to live with than other days. I suppose that it is more difficult for Indians/Indian-Americans as they more of a "minority" than Latinos are now. Just a thought-- kinda off topic, right?? Sorry.

[jezzie]

Not off topic from my perspective.

Part of the reason I enjoy books like this is that it increases my awareness.
That's why I sent for Chicano when it was mentioned.

I, and my parents, were born and raised in NYS.

We have a growing Mexican population in our village (I live in the town).

I've noticed that that the assumptions people make about the demographics
change is very much dependent on how it affects them ... with not much
interest in 'understanding'.


.

[mjais]

'Sai wondered, Should humans conquer the mountain or should they wish for the mountain to possess them? Sherpas went up and down, 10 times, 15 times in some cases without glory, without claim of ownership and there are those who said it was sacred and shouldn't be sullied at all.' Pg 155

I am fascinated by the stories of people/adventurers who have attempted and/or succeeded in climbing Mt. Everest. I read the books, watch the documentaries, etc...

And I've wondered the same thing Sai does in this passage; If the sherpas do it on a regular basis, without fanfare - then why is so much fuss made when others do it? I also believe there is a certain spirituality to nature and perhaps this is why the mountain claims less sherpa lives - they respect it.

[mjais]

Originally Posted by skoolmarm729

I think the overall mood of this novel makes everything and everybody seem hopeless. I really hope somebody finds genuine happiness-- soon.

So far, it seems that the author is more concerned with showing us how the characters cope with what life has dealt them.

[mjais]

Is it me or does there seem to be more going on in this week's reading? There's the judge's powder puff, his marriage to Nimi, his reunion with Bose, Gyan's activism and subsequent change of heart toward Sai, Biju getting his visa and his injury at the cafe.

I was hoping the judge's marriage would show his tender side, but that doesn't seem to be the case. His cruelty toward his wife, his concern with what other people will think of him/them (his status), is so sad.

'He would teach her the same lessons of loneliness and shame he had learned himself. In public, he never spoke to or looked in her direction.Pg 170'

And Nimi's response is tragic.

'She had fallen out of life altogether. Pg 172

[skoolmarm729]

No, it's not just you. This week's reading is quite heavy. Sadly, the already dismal situations are not getting better. I also feel that whenever I get a bit hopeful for any of the characters, they face more tragedy...

The judge's issues (the powder puff, his wife, himself) seem to stem from a hatred of everything Indian and his desire to be English--- but why?? Did I miss something along the way or maybe the reasoning is yet to be told.

Gyan's love loss seems connected to the judge's own confusion-- in the sense that they are both facing crisis of identity. Gyan is angry with Sai (and her grandfather) for trying to be what they are not. He wants her to embrace Indian culture only and
disregard all things foreign/English. It's ironic that the judge beats his wife for squatting on the toilet and Gyan cannot respect Sai for NOT squatting while waiting for the bus.

I think these are real issues for recent/newly arrived/ and even 2nd generation immigrants. I know just in my own family there are many cultural/identity issues that many of us still struggle with. It is not always easy deciding "which way to go"-- to embrace our own heritage or assimilate into the dominant. I find this to be a very interesting topic that Desai has decided to tackle.

[mjais]

I did notice the parallels between the judge and Gyan. One rejects everything Indian and the other refuses to accept anything else. But is there a character in this story who represents the middle ground of assimilation? The cook, perhaps?

I think the cook's identity seems to be intact. He accepts who he is, his culture, customs and superstitions without pretense or embarrassment. At the same time, he realizes that he and his son can benefit (at least financially) from another culture/country.

I wonder about Sai's identity, but I don't think we've been provided with enough info to get a true sense of it.

[skoolmarm729]

Sai seems to participate in a more western lifestyle without any political motivation or underlying identity confusion. On page 175 she comments about celebrating Christmas as it is simply an excuse for a party.

The dinner between the judge and Bose is full of tension and hurt feelings- the judge decided he will no longer have anything to do with Bose. While Bose openly celebrates the English leaving India, the judge shouts in frustration that Indians are as much to blame. The judge's negativity towards Indians runs so deep that he recalls an incident where he did not come to the aid of a young Indian being attacked and urinated on. I still don't have a clear sense as to why he feels this way. What happened in his childhood that caused such emotions? I also think it's worth mentioning that the judge's only solace in the disastrous dinner is thinking about Mutt. As readers, we can almost feel the relief wash over him when he arrives home and is greeted by Mutt. No person in his life brings him the same happiness as Mutt. Perhaps, it is because Mutt is almost like his child that has no connections to his wife (whom he loathed) and otherwise has no race. This week's reading was truly loaded with issues that we have yet to understand fully.

[skoolmarm729]

May 8 - 14: Chapters 33 - 42: pgs. 211-273

Some questions for us to consider as move on through the novel.

• How are the troubles of the cook, the judge, Father Booty, and Lola and Noni, related to problems of statehood and old hatreds that will not die?
• Most of the examples of Americans and other tourists in India are extremely unflattering. Most of the Indians in America are also not impressive. Why do you think Desai chose to portray these groups this way?

We are just 2 weeks away from completing this novel. At this point, we should probably begin discussing whether or not we plan on reading another novel together. If we are, we should vote on our next novel and allow ourselves time to pick up a copy. Let's use the original thread to discuss this.
Thanks,
Alex

[skoolmarm729]

I just had to quickly post to say that I'm stunned about what is going on! My heart is aching for what has happened to Lola and Noni. I have only just begun this part, so their situation still seems a bit hopeful-- just a bit.

At this point, it really feels like Biju is ready to call it quits and come home. It almost seems as if he despises America. I have two very opposing images in my head: The Cook kicking his legs in the air like a cockroach at the thought of Biju growing ten times his size (p. 233) & the reality of Biju buying children's shirts for himself at the 99 cent store. I actually think Biju is worse off and think he should go. Life is just as or harder, but at least he has his father.

[mjais]

I was surprised by what is happening to Lola and Noni as well. Their perspective on their quiet lifestyle has been forever altered.

'...Lola and Noni, were the unlucky ones who wouldn't slip through, who would pay the debt that should be shared with others over many generations.' (Pg 242)

As for Biju, what will he tell his father if and when he does return to India? He's lead his father to believe he's doing so well and the cook has such expectations for him.

What did you think of the description of Gyan's house? No wonder he feels such resentment towards Sai and the judge.

[skoolmarm729]

I originally thought the same thing about Gyan's attitude toward Sai's home-- but then I remembered the description of the rainy season and their home being covered in mold. Is Sai really that better off than Gyan? Perhaps.

As I read more about Lola and Noni it forces me to think of the way I live in the US alongside so many others who have nothing. How do so many of us live our lives in excess while so many others have nothing? Pretty scary.

[mjais]

Yes, the theme of 'the haves and the have-nots seems to permeate this story. I think Desai does a great job of making this point in the lives of the characters.

Like many who are better off, Lola and Noni didn't realize it until the recent events. The same is true for the judge and Sai. The judge can afford a cook, supports his granddaughter, a tutor for her and his home. I think Sai realizes this when she sees the conditions Gyan lives in.

'The house didn't match Gyan's talk, his English, his looks, his clothes or his schooling. It didn't match his future. Every single thing his family had was going into him and it took ten of them to live like this to produce a boy, combed, educated, their best bet in the big world.' pg 256

Uncle Potty and Father Booty both have homes, although Father Booty had his taken away - his realization.

I was glad to see Sai finally show some backbone, stand up to Gyan and speak her mind. I was afraid she was going to spend the remainder of the story moping about with a broken heart.

[skoolmarm729]

I'm still trying to decide if Sai was correct in her approach-- ""Low-class family, uncultured, arranged-marriage types... "(p. 261). I realize they were in a heated argument, but this seems so harsh-- and this was before she realized that he was the one who told the thugs about her grandfather's valuables and guns. Perhaps Desai wrote this argument to point out how different classes really are and the struggles they face when they attempt a relationship. This was a tough argument between them. And despite their words, I still felt the love through it all.

I am not sure how I will feel about this later, but for now, I am happy that Biju decided to go home to his father. Life in America was miserable for him- he was no better there than home with his dad. I am afraid to find how his father will take this news. Funny, how just a few months before he was desperate to get in and now he is celebrating his departure.

Things seem to move very quickly for these characters.

[mjais]

I agree. Sai's words did seem harsh and yes, I did sense there was still some love remaining between them. However, we will see what happens at the end of the story because as you said 'events are moving very quickly.'

As for the point Desai was making with this arguement, I'm not sure. I definitely saw the class struggle, but I also thought she was trying to portray a non stereotypical side of the Indian female. The other female characters in the book - especially the judge's wife - seemed to fit the stereotype of a subservient, submissive Indian woman. Sai, who's of another generation and influenced more by a different culture (one of the effects of globalization) displays different qualities.

I thought it made a good point: you cannot stereotype people based on their culture. At least, that's what I took away from it.

[skoolmarm729]

FYI-- I should be done with the book tonight

[Jessi]

I forgot how to find you all Got the book and am trying to get back into it. Will check in again real soon.

[mjais]

Hi Jessi:

I wondered why you didn't come back to join us. Now I know why lol.

This week is the last week of the discussion for this book. We are starting a new book next week - on May 21st. - 'The Other Boleyn Girl' by Phillipa Gregory. At this point, you might want to wait and join us at the start of the new discussion.

You can find a brief description of the new book and more info on this thread New Book Club- Anyone interested?

I hope you'll join us.

[scrappychik]

I LOVE to read and would be happy if I could join in the discussion I will have to get to the library to get a copy of the next book

[skoolmarm729]

Welcome back Jessi- and Welcome scrappy!

mjais- I haven't had a chance to post as I am helping my 8th graders prepare for our big 8th grade trip/graduation/dance this week. I will be back tomorrow evening.

[skoolmarm729]

mjais-- i just wanted to let you know that I finished the book tonight. So, we can discuss ending whenever you're ready.

[mjais]

Hi Scrappychik:

I hope you're able to get the book from the library and join us.

[mjais]

Originally Posted by skoolmarm729

Sadly, the already dismal situations are not getting better. I also feel that whenever I get a bit hopeful for any of the characters, they face more tragedy...

I quoted this post because it sort of sums up how I was left feeling at the end of the book.

I didn't get a sense of closure, really. It's as though the story simply stopped. Don't get me wrong, there are some great things about this book and I plan to discuss those as well. But in the end there's a fatalistic quality that I couldn't quite get past as though the characters were doomed to be victims of circumstance.

[scrappychik]

Thanks for the welcome, ladies! I had to put in a request for the book. Every copy is out/on hold right now If I have to, I'll just buy a copy from Borders-can't wait to get started

[skoolmarm729]

Originally Posted by mjais

I quoted this post because it sort of sums up how I was left feeling at the end of the book.

I didn't get a sense of closure, really. It's as though the story simply stopped. Don't get me wrong, there are some great things about this book and I plan to discuss those as well. But in the end there's a fatalistic quality that I couldn't quite get past as though the characters were doomed to be victims of circumstance.

"Great things"-- That's one way to put it. I do think Desai has made some comical observations of how tragic life really is, but in the end, it is really just a book of melancholy. ALL the characters are displaced and can't seem to find their place in life. I said it early on and I think it's worth saying again- ALL the characters are hopeless. Yes, Sai does stand up to Gyan-- but at what cost?? She desperately want him back and he wants her, but he will always have a difficult time accepting her for who she is. For a short time I was glad that Biju decided to come home to his family and friends, but his "welcome" home quickly changed my mind. The judge mourns Mutt, but not his only daughter's death? Then he beats the only person to love and care for him unconditionally. Booty, Potty, Lola, and Noni futures look quite grim and without any possibilties.

I am having a difficult time deciding what Desai wanted her readers to think about the future of the characters. No matter how many ways I turn it, it just doesn't look good. I was sad about life when I finished reading the last page.

I don't think this novel is a complete tragedy- but it is mostly tragic.

[skoolmarm729]

scrappy-- mjais and I found our copies on Ebay for much less than what a bookstore would charge.

mjais- are we starting our next one on Thursday?

[scrappychik]

Originally Posted by skoolmarm729

scrappy-- mjais and I found our copies on Ebay for much less than what a bookstore would charge.

mjais- are we starting our next one on Thursday?

Thanks for the tip I was on Amazon today and found their "4 for 3" promotion so just purchased three other books I was interested in and got The Other Boleyn Girl FREE! Hope it gets here in time to start next week. Free shipping takes a bit longer.

[mjais]

Our next book discussion starts on Wednesday, May 21st.

'The simplicity of what she'd been taught wouldn't hold. Never again could she think there was but one narrative and that this narrative belonged only to herself' (pg 323)

I think she was attempting to make a sociological and perhaps a political statement on culture, identity and immigration. But in doing so, she went overboard on the hardships of the characters' lives and ended up with an unbalanced story. I think a more subtle approach would've worked better instead of a litany of misfortunes. What's left is a feeling that these people will never escape their lot in life and that there is no possibility for change. The characters do seem to have points in the story where they realize their lives need to change, but they don't do anything about it

I also think she was trying to show how people live blindly with the status quo and the fallout that occurs when that status quo is disturbed.

Of course, these are only my opinions, so who knows. But it seems that the people in her home town - the setting for the novel - think her portrayal was a bit heavy-handed as well.

Book-burning threat over town's portrayal in Booker-winning novel | World news | The Guardian

[skoolmarm729]

Although I do think the character's are definitely portrayed as hopeless and in despair, I did appreciate reading a story with this perspective. Stories of redemption and heroic deeds are too common, this was a good change of scenery and pace for me.

It's funny because all the while I was reading "Inheritance" I did think about how the people who actually live in this town had perceived this portrayal. This article definitely shed some light on that question for me. I do think that people are never okay with artists when they put the spotlight on any negativity or challenges that they have faced.

This article also mentioned a few other books that I have heard a lot about--- we may want to consider them for future selections.

I am also still waiting on my copy. But I am sure it will be here sometime next week. Scrappychik- Remember the 21st is simply when the discussion for the first part of our book starts. We actually have all week to post and reply to one another.