Good Bread Recipe

[Jennifer Eloff]

Janie - Cool, you have all my books. Wow! I have never heard of the product hi-maize natural fiber.

Christina - Netrition does not have the product whole wheat/whole grain pastry flour, unfortunately. I hope they will order it sometime.

I have a brand called Arrowhead Mills and it is about 57 g net carbs per cup. Great stuff, as my oat flour is about 49 g per cup. It gives one options. If you do a search on the internet for that brand name, you will find it. It is simply called pastry flour but it will describe it as organic wholegrain flour.

I sure hope the managing director of Netrition will order it for us soon. I can get it locally, but I know now that many of you can't. Perhaps I will notify Tom, but if anyone gets around to it sooner, that would be great.

[mac24312]

Thanks Jennifer

I will do that...Hope so..I will continue to use my Oat flour for now...


HUGS!

[litehousepat]

Originally Posted by magnamater

May I join into the fray here?

BTW, I already have 5 Jennifer LC cookbooks and the other 2 splenda ones.

My question is about something I read in a catalogue I just got from King Arthur Flour.

It's about hi-maize natural fiber, which sounds like the corn fiber I have in my cupboard that I've never used, LOL.

It says in the catalogue that the product is a best seller, and . . .

"More fiber in your baked goods without that high-fiber, dry/gritty texture? Easy-to-use- Hi-maise Natural Fiber is the answer. Substitute for up to 1/3 flour in almost any recipe."

Anybody have any experience? Anyone willing to experiment? I probably will. . .but when. . .I'm not sure. Will post any results. I have to try the basic loaves first. Then I can try.

TIA!

Magnamater I just received an article from Laura Dolsons website about resistant starch and Hi-Maize was apart of that article.

I am very poor and just beginning on the computer.
Here is the website - lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/resistantstarch.htm

Hope this helps.

I also have all of Jennifer Eloff's cookbooks. They are wonderful.

Pat

[magnamater]

Pat, that was great info. I will try the flatbread recipe with flaxmeal, on the weekend, I hope.

I also will bake next weekend, and then try a recipe with the Hi-Maize.

Stay tuned.

Sounds like good stuff. If we can master it!

[litehousepat]

Originally Posted by magnamater

Pat, that was great info. I will try the flatbread recipe with flaxmeal, on the weekend, I hope.

I also will bake next weekend, and then try a recipe with the Hi-Maize.

Stay tuned.

Sounds like good stuff. If we can master it!

I'm glad the info was useful.

Pat

[Cats for Texas]

Originally Posted by mac24312

Thanks Jennifer

I will do that...Hope so..I will continue to use my Oat flour for now...


HUGS!

FYI: "health food stores" often carry both whole wheat flour and pastry flour. I buy mine in bulk so I don't have so much laying around at one time.

[missymagoo12]

i have not made this bread yet. i am still going to - i just found where my mother put her bread machine- i have to be sure it still works. may be i will get to try it this weekend. i need to go to a natural foods store to see if they have the whole wheat pastry flour. sue

[Jennifer Eloff]

Charski and Bikerang - THANK you so much for that great advice re cleaning a coffee grinder.

Sue, if you don't find w/w pastry flour, you can use oat flour. Just remember to start with 3/4 cup water and add more by the tablespoonful as necessary.

Cats for Texas: We live in a humid climate and so these days I freeze all my flours, except for my bake mixes which I keep at room temperature in an airtight tupperware container. The turnover is fairly frequent, plus, even if not, it lasts at least 2 months at room temp. I use leftover bake mixes for "breading" fish and vegetables.

Thanks, Pat.

Christina Healthfood stores such as Trader Joe's should also carry whole wheat pastry flour.

[retroworx]

Originally Posted by magnamater

Pat, that was great info. I will try the flatbread recipe with flaxmeal, on the weekend, I hope.

I also will bake next weekend, and then try a recipe with the Hi-Maize.

Stay tuned.

Sounds like good stuff. If we can master it!

Janie:

I have used the Hi-Maize on occasion tho not as much as other specialty flours because I have never been confident with the stats since my Honeyville Grain label listed zero calories which it obviously is not. And because the King Arthur version lists 1.5 tbsp as 3 carbs. Not sure this has ever been resolved correctly. (See this thread: Resistant Starches (Again))

Aaaanyway. Just wanted to mention that I've used it in a pseudo cornbread experiment where it did impart some kind of corn taste. This means you should probably use it judiciously in other baking if that is not your desired taste. I wouldn't, say, start with more than a 1/4 cup replacement in a cup of "flour" until you determine that you like the taste. Also, it bakes up pretty dry, so you may have to make some liquid adjustments. The addition of flaxmeal may resolve the dryness for you nicely, tho.

HTH,

[mac24312]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Eloff

Christina Healthfood stores such as Trader Joe's should also carry whole wheat pastry flour.

We dont have those around our Country Hick little town...not even a hour and 1/2 away they dont have them either..I guess I will break down and order it...NONE of the Health food stores or my good Amish stores carries it...my amish store carries the regular but says it cant get the whole wheat in it...I DO get my rolled Oat there for my Oat flour thou..

HUGS
Christina

[The Chicken Lady]

I finally got around to trying this recipe and I don't know what I did wrong but mine collapsed in the oven...I'll try again.

[oliveoyl]

Sorry, I've been away for a while and I'm just skimming right now, but I keep seeing something about wet bread -- probably the dough? Anyway, my understanding about the liquid content of bread dough is that it should be as moist as you can tolerate it -- this produces nice, light, airy bread. If I measure the water (19 tablespoons for the pan variation) for Jen's Whole Grain Bread very carefully, then it's quite wet, but it turns out beautifully when it's baked. Also, when I'm making pizza crust, the wetter it is, the easier it is to stretch it onto the pan. It should be sticky and a little hard to handle, but if you handle it lightly, you should be able to shape it OK. You can also coat your hands (and the dough) with butter or oil before you shape the bread. As for flours, I use Bob's Red Mill VWG, WW pastry flour, flax and bran. I follow the pan bread variation exactly as written for all the other ingredients. I used wheat germ once instead of bran, but I think the bran must somehow prevent the VWG from getting too tough and chewy -- bran produces a much lighter bread in this case, believe it or not! I hope this is the right response to the wet bread dough issue. I'll try to take some time to read through more slowly this evening.

[missymagoo12]

thank you for all the replies in this thread. it is amazing . i am going to try to get a bread loaf done this weekend. sue

[oliveoyl]

Cristina: 1. substitutions for WW pastry flour: WW bread flour has the same number of carbs, but it has a lot more gluten, so if you use it with the VWG, the bread will turn out too chewy. Substitute oat flour instead (as you did ). I think the brilliance of this recipe is combining the low-gluten pastry flour with the high-gluten VWG.
2. substituting WPI: WPI is about the same as VWG for protein content and carbs and they can be interchanged. The issue for me is taste -- they both have an off taste, but I can tolerate VWG a little better. Again, the brilliance of Jen's recipe is the amount of sweetener and the vanilla to conteract the off tastes of the VWG. So maybe the sweetness of this recipe will hide the taste of WPI -- I don't know -- I finally threw out all of my WPI!
3. where to find pastry flour: I buy it at Whole Foods, but I've noticed that Walmart carries Arrowhead Mills VWG -- maybe they'd be willing to get Arrowhead Mills pastry flour as well.
4. Rolls and Hamburger buns are very easy: I use a muffin top pan for burger buns and just space dinner rolls on a baking sheet. Space them well, because they'll rise a lot. They bake at the same temp as the bread, which is nice because you can do a loaf of bread and some rolls at the same time. The rolls take maybe ten minutes less baking -- watch them to see when they're nicely browned.
5. This dough is very wet, as I posted above, but I don't think that's a problem. As long as it has some body to it and doesn't flop flat then it's OK. Sometimes I do have to add a little more VWG. If you add something, I'd use VWG or flax meal to keep the carb count low.
Eastbruce/Shadowzip: I've tried kneading this bread in my KitchenAid for 15 minutes and for 5 minutes and I don't see that it makes any difference either way. I'd just work the dough until it's nice and smooth and resist the temptation to add too much flour. You may want to try just stirring it till nicely mixed, too, see what happens -- I don't think VWG needs much work to rise and I'm guessing that the baking powder works on the pastry flour.
The Collapsing Issue: This is normal with breads that have a lot of VWG in them. They puff way up in the oven and look promising and then fall flat once they're out of the oven. To help: 1). just grease the bottom of your bread pans, not the sides. I use glass pans, and it doesn't stick -- but I don't know about metal pans. 2). let it cool an hour in the bread pan. It'll be wet on the bottom when it comes out, so turn it on its side to dry out. 3). don't slice it fresh out of the oven. Wait till it's completely cool. For some reason, I have very little problem with rolls and burger buns collapsing.
Jen Eloff: I did try to email you, but I'm not sure if I got through -- the computer was acting very strange! I love your cookbooks! If anyone is hesitating about buying them, they're worth it -- plus, be careful that you're looking at the US prices and not the Canadian ones -- there's a big difference!

[magnamater]

Originally Posted by retroworx

Janie:

I have used the Hi-Maize on occasion tho not as much as other specialty flours because I have never been confident with the stats since my Honeyville Grain label listed zero calories which it obviously is not. And because the King Arthur version lists 1.5 tbsp as 3 carbs. Not sure this has ever been resolved correctly. (See this thread: Resistant Starches (Again))

Aaaanyway. Just wanted to mention that I've used it in a pseudo cornbread experiment where it did impart some kind of corn taste. This means you should probably use it judiciously in other baking if that is not your desired taste. I wouldn't, say, start with more than a 1/4 cup replacement in a cup of "flour" until you determine that you like the taste. Also, it bakes up pretty dry, so you may have to make some liquid adjustments. The addition of flaxmeal may resolve the dryness for you nicely, tho.

HTH,

Read the thread, think I got it, and thanx, retro, for the heads up. I might. . .get to it this weekend. Hope so, sounds yummy to have a nice relatively low carb/low cal bread that tastes great.

[Jennifer Eloff]

A photo of the two loaves (2 g carbs each slice)




A photo of the bread machine loaf (~4.9 g carbs each slice) In this photo it is possible to see the ground flax seeds in the loaf.

[Jennifer Eloff]

Oliveoyl: First of all, thank you for your detailed scientific explanations. Amazing! Did you find the correct email address (it's a gmail address), as I didn't actually receive your email.

As long as the metal loaf pans are well greased, it should not be a problem removing the loaves, otherwise lining old pans with foil and greasing the foil (dust with a very small amount of VWG) would ensure easy removal.

Interesting info re VWG and WPI. I don't notice a "taste" with VWG and sure hope I don't with the WPI I just ordered from Netrition.com I can't believe you threw it out!

With regard to having loaves that fall. Make sure after the rising of the loaves to leave the loaves in the oven, remove foil, close door and then turn temp. up to 350 deg. F. Do not remove loaves while preheating the oven. Once the loaves have been placed in the warm oven (switched off), they remain there until the rising and baking has been completed. Removing the loaves prematurely will make them fall. I'm trying to think why I covered the loaves with foil lightly while they were rising - probably to shield from drafts and keep the temperature very constant in each loaf pan. I would be very quick in removing the foil, in case that's the problem - opening the door, that is. After foil is removed, close door and set oven temp. to 350 deg. F. and bake 30 minutes, or until nicely browned. I'm also thinking, if folks are doing this part of the instructions correctly, that perhaps the amount of water is still an issue, and should be reduced slightly (by about 2 to 4 tbsp) or the amount of water kept the same and VWG increased slightly (by, say, 2 tbsp) - this should make a more robust loaf, I'm thinking.

What is interesting to me, Oliveoyl, is that you found out that it is possible to make this bread without first beginning with a bread machine. Not all my low-carb breads have a robust enough dough to tolerate the dough hooks in my mixer (at least, that has been my experience). The other thing that you discovered is that you can make a pizza dough from this bread (it is a bit higher than my thin and crispy pizza crust at 4.4 grams a slice (which I will share soon on my blog) - still, another great option for this easy bread dough. You have done folks a great service by sharing your experience with the bread and figuring out some interesting details and options. Thank you, Oliveoyl.

[Jennifer Eloff]

I'm almost certain the wetter bread dough occurs with the oat flour version of this bread. I will test it soon. However, my whole pastry flour bread seems to be foolproof in my bread machine with the original stated amounts of liquid in the recipe. More later...

[mac24312]

Hi Jennifer!!

I am willing to experiment too if you want me too..I JUST love to do that!! Send me a e-mail with the chances you want to try and I will try them for you tommorow...I have PLENTY of WPI 5,000 and 8,000...If you did not get to check my e-mail that I sent you I found my WW Pastry Flour and another Amish Store I had forgot about and it was 30 cent a pound!! I also got some more VWG there..that was 3.25 a pound thou and some more Wheat Bran for 48 cent a pound...sham I cant get Coconut Flour there...do any of your recipes in you books have that in them??

Also, when I rose my bread I didnt use the foil on top in my oven..it did just fine...I didnt open the oven up at all either...I am betting like you it's the Oat Flour.

Oh and TY!! You know what for... BEAUTIFUL Loaves by the way I sure wish my Walmart Sunbeam bread maker would do that...there is just TOO many punch down and kneads for it to do LC Bread..that is why I just mix and then rise the other way...


HUGS!
Christina

[shadowzip]

I like to use my Kitchen Aid also. I never have liked bread machines. I much prefer mixing and kneading with the dough hook. I added a little of Kevinpa's flour mix to mine because it was wetter than a regular dough. Then it kneaded just fine. I just let mine rise on the top of the stove with a cloth over it. It rose great and just sunk a tiny amount after baking. Great recipe.

[Jennifer Eloff]

Christina, glad you found the w/w pastry flour near you. That's handy. I can't remember - nope, I don't think I used coconut flour in my cookbooks. I did grind unsweetened coconut for one cake, I believe, and that's it. I am experimenting with coconut flour these days and simply place the recipes on my blog. I'll be posting Chocolate Coconut Cookies shortly - maybe tomorrow morning.

Feel free to experiment with the bread, Christina, if you like. I'd be curious to find out if WPI's work in place of VWG or whether one should go half and half. WPI will cut carbs even more. Can you imagine a slice of bread less than 2 grams?

Your breads looked super, Christina. I used the bread machine, so your loaves are even more remarkable. I found that the bread machine with the horizontal loaf pan produced a bread that was smaller than the bread machine I have with a vertical pan - go figure! I still need to try the loaf pan breads again. I would like to see how the oat flour version works with less water - perhaps 1 cup.

Shadowzip, did you use whole wheat pastry flour or oat flour and did you use flax seeds or one of the flours? I'm curious. Thanks for the great feedback.

[Jennifer Eloff]

Word of caution: Bread is bread, right? Please don't overdo. I don't want to blamed for any weight gain.

This is the "butter" I use all the time (love it!)

HEALTHY BUTTER
This is a clever way to make butter healthier and higher in monounsaturated fats. The taste is just like butter, plus it spreads easily straight from the refrigerator.

1 lb butter (2 sticks), softened
1 1/2 cups light-tasting olive oil* (see Helpful Hints below)

In blender, process butter and olive oil until soft, creamy and smooth. Turn out (using a soft spatula) into plastic container with lid and refrigerate until set.

Yield: 3 cups, 1 tsp per serving, 42.5 calories, 0.0 g pro, 4.8 g fat, 0.0 g carbs

*Helpful Hints: I usually double this recipe as it lasts long in the refrigerator. Choose an olive oil that has no perceptible taste (the green one (extra virgin) is stronger tasting), so that it doesn't overpower the taste of the butter. If per chance the olive oil overpowers the butter taste, then use that Healthy Butter for frying and cooking. Now here is the thing: It really depends on your butter, however, the brand that I use now requires 2 sticks of butter and only one cup (250 mL) of olive oil. A little bit of trial and error will find your perfect Healthy Butter Recipe! My family will not do without it!

[mac24312]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Eloff

Christina, glad you found the w/w pastry flour near you. That's handy. I can't remember - nope, I don't think I used coconut flour in my cookbooks. I did grind unsweetened coconut for one cake, I believe, and that's it. I am experimenting with coconut flour these days and simply place the recipes on my blog. I'll be posting Chocolate Coconut Cookies shortly - maybe tomorrow morning.

Feel free to experiment with the bread, Christina, if you like. I'd be curious to find out if WPI's work in place of VWG or whether one should go half and half. WPI will cut carbs even more. Can you imagine a slice of bread less than 2 grams?

Your breads looked super, Christina. I used the bread machine, so your loaves are even more remarkable. I found that the bread machine with the horizontal loaf pan produced a bread that was smaller than the bread machine I have with a vertical pan - go figure! I still need to try the loaf pan breads again. I would like to see how the oat flour version works with less water - perhaps 1 cup.

Shadowzip, did you use whole wheat pastry flour or oat flour and did you use flax seeds or one of the flours? I'm curious. Thanks for the great feedback.

Ok..if I get time this weekend I will try to make it with the WPI's but I dont know which one to try..thinking about doing all WPI 5,000 for the VWG since its close to the same as the VWG is...and using 1/2 oat and 1/2 WW Pastry flour this time..

Post them cookies GF because I want to try something to do me until I get my LC Refrigerator coconut cake done...Like the HC version but a semi LC one...will tweak it again to make even lower carb if this one is good..lol

Thanks again...I sure wish I could do mine all in my Bread machine..lol Happy Valentines day Jennifer..oh..and if you have time to look at more pics of me go here is a new post from me...Anyone new here want proof that LC works!!


HUGS!!

[mac24312]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Eloff

Word of caution: Bread is bread, right? Please don't overdo. I don't want to blamed for any weight gain.

This is the "butter" I use all the time (love it!)

HEALTHY BUTTER
This is a clever way to make butter healthier and higher in monounsaturated fats. The taste is just like butter, plus it spreads easily straight from the refrigerator.

1 lb butter (2 sticks), softened
1 1/2 cups light-tasting olive oil* (see Helpful Hints below)

In blender, process butter and olive oil until soft, creamy and smooth. Turn out (using a soft spatula) into plastic container with lid and refrigerate until set.

Yield: 3 cups, 1 tsp per serving, 42.5 calories, 0.0 g pro, 4.8 g fat, 0.0 g carbs

*Helpful Hints: I usually double this recipe as it lasts long in the refrigerator. Choose an olive oil that has no perceptible taste (the green one (extra virgin) is stronger tasting), so that it doesn't overpower the taste of the butter. If per chance the olive oil overpowers the butter taste, then use that Healthy Butter for frying and cooking. Now here is the thing: It really depends on your butter, however, the brand that I use now requires 2 sticks of butter and only one cup (250 mL) of olive oil. A little bit of trial and error will find your perfect Healthy Butter Recipe! My family will not do without it!

LOL That is the recipe I am using now!! LOL YOU all need to try this!!

HUGS!

[shadowzip]

Jen this is what I used, I was out of WW pastry flour so I used the King Arthurs.


1-1/4 cup vital wheat gluten (250 mL)
2/3 KA white whole wheat
1/2 cup wheat bran
1/4 cup oat flour

[Jennifer Eloff]

This bread recipe of mine was never tested by me other than using a bread machine. With the liquid amount suggested for whole wheat pastry flour, this bread works every time. Somehow in the bread machine (even although the dough looks a little moist and feels sticky), the moisture does get incorporated after a while with the kneading, rising (and subsequent heat of the cycyle) and the loaf turns out nicely.

I am going to test it with oat flour today and compare the results. I do think using ground flax seeds will soak up more water (I didn't use that recently - I simply used 2/3 cup w/w pastry flour and 1/4 cup w/w pastry flour and used my bread machine. It produced a lovely loaf with a very crusty exterior, which my DH loves.

What I am thinking is that if the bread is made without a bread machine (and perhaps the oat flour version using a bread machine too - need to check this out), then water requirements will be less - maybe up to 1/4 cup less.

Shadowzip, sounds like you made a nice variation of this bread, but it may have been a bit chewier with all that VWG. Again, I am so surprised that most of you have made this bread without using a bread machine at all. I'm so impressed with the ingenuity displayed.

I have to thank you, Oliveoyl. I have rediscovered this bread.

Christina, thanks for the heads up re the Healthy Butter - you must have found the recipe on my blog.

For the record, my almost nightly prayer for many years (even prior to writing my books) was for my Father in heaven to enable me to help others, and I believe that prayer was answered mightily. I feel blessed to serve people in this manner.

[mac24312]

Yes..I did find the butter on your site Cant wait till you post your results for us to see..I am going and wait and play around with your recipe again next weeks as I am busy with other things today... If you cookies turn out post those when you get the chance.

You are a blessing to all of us here on LCF Jennifer and its a PLEASURE having you here...

Happy Valentines day!!

HUGS and GOD BLESS YOU!
Christina

[enelkay]

Jen, it's good to see you here! This is one of my favorite hangouts!

Lauren, I've been working for several months on a good, gluten-free, low-carb recipe for a bread that's easy to make, tastes good, rises well, has a good texture, and cuts nicely. I just this morning made a loaf that my husband and I both think is getting close to perfect in all of those ways. But I want to make it at least two or three more times to make sure this wasn't just a fluke before I inflict the recipe on anyone else.

I'm going off on vacation next week, and I'm going to freeze half of the loaf to see how it behaves when frozen. And after I get back I'll start working on it again. If it works out well, I'll post it here on lowcarbfriends.

(Sorry, Jen -- this is one of my whey protein-based recipes, so I know it won't be good for you.)

[shadowzip]

Shadowzip, sounds like you made a nice variation of this bread, but it may have been a bit chewier with all that VWG. Again, I am so surprised that most of you have made this bread without using a bread machine at all. I'm so impressed with the ingenuity displayed.

I used this variation, It says 1-1/4 cups VWG, or am I reading it wrong.
It was aittle chewy, but still really good and light.

Variations: Loaf Pan Breads (Two): Use 1 cup (250 mL) water, plus 3 tbsp (45 mL), 2 eggs, 11/4 cups (300 mL) 80% vital wheat gluten and 2 tsp (10 mL) baking powder. Follow recipe above with these changes. Program bread machine to pizza cycle. Divide dough in two equal portions. Place each portion in greased 9 x 5 x 3-inch (2 L) loaf pan and place pans on bottom shelf in preheated 225°F (107°C) oven which is off. Cover lightly with foil. Allow to rise 40 minutes. Remove foil; switch on oven to 350°F (180°C), leaving loaves inside. Bake 30 minutes. Place loaves on cake rack to cool. Place in paper bag and leave at room temperature for crusty loaves. Refrigerate for longer storage or freeze. Yield: 2 Loaves, 22 slices each, 1 slice per serving. (2.0 g Carbs)

[Jennifer Eloff]

Hi Nadine - is that you? Hey, looks like you had your pic taken with Dr. Atkins. How special!

I'd be very interested to see your gluten-free bread recipe. I know you've been missing a good bread.

I can't get whey protein easily over here, but a friend of mine is bringing me some in Feb. I mean, I can get it, but I try to avoid the ones sweetened with aspartame or ace-K, as I don't think one should bake with aspartame especially. Splenda is chemically inert and does not change at the high baking temperatures. I miss my whey protein. I still have some chocolate whey.

Shadowzip, yes, I'm sorry I made a mistake. I was thinking of the ingredients in the main loaf. You are absolutely correct.

Christine, thanks, you are such a sweetheart!