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Old 12-17-2005, 05:23 AM   #181
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datahamstr, here's a Stevia Eqivalency chart that I have. Hope this will help you. I'm not sure who posted this. I just did a copy and paste.

Stevia Equivalencies
Sugar SteviaPlus®
Fiber
Packets SteviaPlus®
Fiber
Powder SteviaClear®
Liquid
Stevia
1 tsp 1/2 packet 1/4 tsp 2 to 3 drops
2 tsp 1 packet 1/2 tsp 4 to 6 drops
1 Tbsp 1-1/2 to 2 packets 3/4 tsp 6 to 9 drops
1 cup 18 to 24 packets 1-1/2 to 2 Tbsp 1 tsp
1 cup 36 to 48 packets 3 to 4 Tbsp 2 tsp

Sugar Stevia
Extract
Powder Stevia
Concentrate
Dark Liquid Honeyleaf®
Stevia Leaf
Powder
1 tsp N/A 4 to 6 drops N/A
2 tsp N/A 8 to 12 drops N/A
1 Tbsp N/A 1/8 tsp 1/4 tsp
1 cup 1/3 to 1/2 tsp 1 Tbsp 1-1/2 to 2 Tbsp
1 cup 2/3 to 1 tsp 2 Tbsp 3 to 4 Tbsp

Equivalencies are approximate. Adjust to your taste. Too much Stevia may taste bitter. When substituting Stevia for sugar in your own recipes you may have to adjust for the bulk. Try adding applesauce, apple butter or plain yogurt. Stevia is sold in the United States as a nutritional supplement and not as a sweetener or food additive.
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Old 12-17-2005, 07:42 AM   #182
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Datahamstr, I haven't tried inulin. I'm still experimenting with polyd, but know I really like using it. It makes a huge difference in things like cookies, but am not so sure of other things. I know if a baked product turns out dry, adding some polyd to it will definitely make it less dry. At one point, Scott123 figured that to equal the bulking of 1 cup of sugar, you would use about 1 1/4 cup polyd. Being cheap, I find that I can usually get by with a little less than that. Unfortunately, there are so many variables in baking that there is no hard and fast rule for everything.

About granular splenda vs liquid splenda--There is virtually no bulking in granular splenda, it's mostly fluff for measure, so it's gone once it's wet. In baking there is not much difference between using the two except the extra carbs in granular splenda, so most of us try to use the liquid whenever possible which is most of the time.

I know most of these ingredients are expensive. The one good thing about combing sweeteners is that you use less of each and get better results.
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Old 12-17-2005, 01:08 PM   #183
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Pam, thanks very much for the stevia equivalency chart, I've printed it out so I'll have it in future. This board is so huge, it's too hard to find most things again

kcd, thanks so much for the granular splenda info., that's basically what I was wondering, if using gran. splenda would affect results much. Good to know that it doesn't.

For ordering, I think I'll get some FiberFit, since the other liquid one seems disappeared, and some Sweet One. And of course, some PolyD! Will delay on the inulin for now, since I need a few things anyway from across the line anyway.

I think that we should all get together and write a cookbook when more experimenting/recipes are developed--I'll do the index, they don't call me Datahamstr for nothing

Thanks much!
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Old 12-17-2005, 08:22 PM   #184
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Datahmstr, ditto on what KC and Pam said When I first posted that formula a long time ago, I thought it was going to change pretty dramatically over time. It didn't. With the exception of the addition of polyd, it's pretty much the same formula I use now. Actually, now that I think about it, I have changed one more thing. Now thay my financial picture has improved (slightly) I've upped the erythritol a bit. With the warming effect of the polyd and it's anti-crystallization properties, any issues with the increased e are circumvented. Here's about where I'm at now:

For 1 cup sugar, use:
1/3 C. splenda equivalent
1/3 C. erythritol
1 packet Sweet One ace K (2 t. equivalent)
2/3 C. polyd

You may notice that from a bulk perspective, I'm now treating polyd as 1 to 1 with sugar. After much thought and experimentation, I'm revisiting my theory that sugar and polyd add the same amount of bulk by weight. That's where I came up with the idea that 1 cup sugar bulk = 1 1/4 (or more) polyd bulk. Polyd, by weight, adds more bulk/viscosity/gooeyness/sugariness than sugar does. Even though it weighs less per cup, the increased bulk it adds compensates. The bulk of 1 cup sugar = the bulk of 1 cup polyd. At least that's where I am now. That could change slightly with further experimentation.

A packet of Sweet One brand ace k is the same sweetening equivalent as a packet of Steviaplus.

In theory, inulin, being polymerized fructose, should substitute flawlessly for polyd, which is polymerized glucose. There could be slight differences in the way they're manufactured, though. One may have more residual moisture content than the other. I have a feeling that subbing inulin for polyd will get you very close results, though. I don't know how much you pay for inulin in Canada, but I've seen polyd from a US company with one rate Canadian shipping that I think would be cheaper than inulin would be for you locally. Unless you guys can get really cheap inulin.

The amount of liquid in liquid fiberfit can cause problems in some recipes. I haven't researched the conversion for the powdered fiberfit, but if it's competitively priced with the liquid (per cup sweetening equivalent), I would get that instead. I'd like to recommend using polyd plus as the sucralose component (along with polyd), but after using the polyd plus a few times, I don't think it's standardized for the sweetness of sugar. I did get one of the first packets, though, so maybe they've worked out the kinks with it.
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Old 12-17-2005, 09:07 PM   #185
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Hi Scott, thanks very much for the update on the synergy mixture and the PolyD. I have printed it out for reference It's interesting that you've come down on the amount of polyd. I haven't ordered mine yet, but
I really want to try Jaideye's brownies and Pam's English Toffee! Among other things...

What do you think of the new powdered FiberFit? It's 1 tsp. FiberFit = 8 tsp. sugar; they have also changed the liquid formula to the same equivalency. It seems that might be easier to deal with than the sweetened polyd. or perhaps even the liquid FiberFit?

And the inulin could turn out more expensive than the polyd, that's true, I'm going to check into that. We can only buy inulin in those plastic jars, and they're probably $10-$12. Pretty expensive for fiber. I need to order Sweet One anyway...

Thanks so much for the update, Scott, you're amazing.
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Old 12-17-2005, 09:34 PM   #186
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Scott123, just checking.....

BTW, if you just needed the sweetening aspect of one cup sugar, it would just be :
1/3 C. splenda equivalent
1/3 C. erythritol
1 packet Sweet One ace K (2 t. equivalent)

Wouldn't it? Would that still avoid the coolness of the E., etc.? And if you wanted to economize, could you use less E. and more Splenda (like 1/4 cup Erythritol and 1/2 c. Splenda?)
Thanks again,
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Old 12-20-2005, 08:54 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datahamstr
...the inulin could turn out more expensive than the polyd, that's true, I'm going to check into that. We can only buy inulin in those plastic jars, and they're probably $10-$12. Pretty expensive for fiber. I need to order Sweet One anyway...
Datahamstr
FYI, Datahamstr, I've already looked into the costs, and here's a LITTLE clarification on a few points.
  • I believe the Sweet One is available from Netrition, and the shipping/Polydextrose costs Scott refers to are from HoneyvilleGrain
  • I haven't checked Netrition's shipping to Canada, but if any of them ship UPS Ground or Standard, you will incur surprise and expensive brokerage costs at the point of entry (has to do with trucks and paperwork)

Here's some costs I worked out for Honeyville's flat rate of 19.95 USD to Canada, and predicated on one 5# (about 2.27 times the size of the Inulin container by weight) bag of Polydextrose (assuming you don't want to start your experiments with a 340g container of Inulin instead). This doesn't include the brokerage costs, as those are calculated per order. I hope the spreadsheet pastes here in readable form ...let's try it:
Code:
costs checked on xe.com DEC 20th @ 20:05	retail cost CAD	retail cost USD	unit wgt KGM	unit wgt LBM	# of 100g units (cost factor)	shipping cost USD	shipping cost CAD	if UPS Ground, then BROKERAGE cost tho no GST (% value + fixed fee)	cost CAD 5# before shipping after exchange	cost CAD 5# inc shipping after exchange	cost CAD per 100g before shipping after exchange
											
Inulin	$11.00 	$9.39 	0.35 	0.77 	3.50 	$0.00 	$0.00 	n/a	$71.28 	$71.28 	$3.14 
Polydextrose	$11.70 	$9.99 	2.27 	5.00 	22.68 	$19.95 	$23.37 	?	$11.70 	$35.07 	$0.52 
											
										inulin is twice the price of polydextrose, assuming you can use 5#, before brokerage costs which can be surprisingly large (need to call UPS)
Well, it LOOKS a little wonky, but the data is there...you can always email me and I'll send you the spreadsheet if you like. You know where I am

Hmmmmmmm. If you can find out the brokerage costs on any given estimated order (you'll need to specify WHAT's in the order and the total VALUE in USD of the order, before actually ordering, and call UPS with that info), you may save some money. Or not. Once I ordered some manufacturer's samples, which have no duty or excise applicable, but they were valued on the paperwork (UPS or Fedex Ground, can't remember) at something like $112 USD, and the brokerage costs and fees came to about $65.00 CAD; I about choked... so it's clearly worth finding out.

OTOH, you could just start with a jar of Inulin and see how it goes, you can make the Toffee and the Brownies to start with...
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Old 12-20-2005, 09:24 PM   #188
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Wow, Jude, that's one mean chart! You are totally awesome on this shipping stuff....

So, from our discussion before, I just noted down "get USPS (postal),not UPS Ground", is that right? Whenever I want to buy something from "across the line" (I just live 1 1/2 hours away), my eyes just glaze over when I hear "UPS"! I wish I had a car still.....

But from your calculations, the polyd. would be cheaper than inulin as long as it comes USPS ground, right? (have mercy, I'm not great at math :blush: )

I have also had visions of exploding intestines, so I have taken note of Scott123's "PolyD Beverage Syrup/Acclimation Proposal".

Thanks so much Jude, for the comparison chart
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Old 12-20-2005, 09:58 PM   #189
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and one more thing...

I must pass on this tip that I discovered. I'm not sure if it would work on too- much-fiber tummy upset, but this works wonders on sugar alcohol over-indulgence, especially maltitol.

If you have Mt. Vesuvous tummy, take 1 or 2 good acidophilus (sp?) capsules, any good one that you would get from health food store. Within about 10 minutes, you're good!

Discovered this by accident. The implications of what those sugar alcohols are doing to your tummy's good bacteria to be calmed down by acidophilus is rather disturbing, but hey! I'm not a doctor

I thought this might be timely, with the holidays and all.

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Old 12-21-2005, 01:07 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datahamstr
Wow, Jude, that's one mean chart! You are totally awesome on this shipping stuff....

So, from our discussion before, I just noted down "get USPS (postal),not UPS Ground", is that right? Whenever I want to buy something from "across the line" (I just live 1 1/2 hours away), my eyes just glaze over when I hear "UPS"! I wish I had a car still.....

But from your calculations, the polyd. would be cheaper than inulin as long as it comes USPS ground, right? (have mercy, I'm not great at math :blush: )

I have also had visions of exploding intestines, so I have taken note of Scott123's "PolyD Beverage Syrup/Acclimation Proposal".

Thanks so much Jude, for the comparison chart
Datahamstr

You're very welcome! (I too have a former "data" background, as you can see... )

...and yes, as long as the PolyD can be had USPS US Postal Service of some kind (never mind air or ground, just go with the Postal part) and NOT "courier" Ground/Standard/Truck, you can avoid (border/customs paperwork-based) brokerage fees from UPS or Fedex or ...whatever.
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Old 12-21-2005, 01:09 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datahamstr
I must pass on this tip that I discovered. I'm not sure if it would work on too- much-fiber tummy upset, but this works wonders on sugar alcohol over-indulgence, especially maltitol.

If you have Mt. Vesuvous tummy, take 1 or 2 good acidolpholus (sp?) capsules, any good one that you would get from health food store. Within about 10 minutes, you're good!

Discovered this by accident. The implications of what those sugar alcohols are doing to your tummy's good bacteria to be calmed down by acidolpholus is rather disturbing, but hey! I'm not a doctor

I thought this might be timely, with the holidays and all.

Datahamstr
Tres cool...fits with what I've been doing to offset any sugar alcohol problems, which is to have some quality natural active yogurt as a tummy settler. Helps reduce the severity of , well, you know....
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Old 12-21-2005, 01:28 PM   #192
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I'm new at using anything beyond splenda so please bear with me.
I'm trying to turn my favorite pecan pie recipe to LC. It uses 1 1/3 cups corn sugar and 1/2 cup sugar. So if I make a syrup with polyd/water (2:1) to replace the corn sugar in body. I assume I need to replace all the sweetening (the regular corn syrup plus sugar)--let's say 2 cups sugar equivalent to keep it simple with something like liquid splenda for 2/3 cup equiv; 2/3 cup granular erythritol and 2 packets sweet one. Does that sound right? Do I need more polyd in the sugar mixture (for the body/carmelization normally provided by the sugar) or should the syrup suffice?

By the way, thanks for making this thread--saved me alot of search time. I'm new to this forum--can't wait to check out the carbquick thread.

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Old 12-21-2005, 01:52 PM   #193
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Jackie, you need to go to this thread:

Polyd Pecan Pie

Any recipe of Scott's is sure to be a winner. He won't post one until he's confident it's what he wants it to be.
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Old 12-21-2005, 06:37 PM   #194
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Thanks. I looked at the recipe and it's interesting but now I'm concerned--if polyd carmelizes then why need the molasses--that's alot of sugar carbs I don't want. I never used molasses in regular pecan pie. I'm still on very limited carbs so I keep the dessert portion low--but pecan pie is our favorite and it's a tradition this time of year so I have to try.
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Old 12-21-2005, 07:01 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackieba
Thanks. I looked at the recipe and it's interesting but now I'm concerned--if polyd carmelizes then why need the molasses--that's alot of sugar carbs I don't want. I never used molasses in regular pecan pie. I'm still on very limited carbs so I keep the dessert portion low--but pecan pie is our favorite and it's a tradition this time of year so I have to try.
I think the molasses is about adding that extra bit of flavor of caramelization; the PDX caramelizes texturewise but hasn't got the sugars/sweetness for that burned sugar flavor. That's what PDX is all about, the texture but not the sweetness (digestible carbs) of sugar.
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Old 12-22-2005, 07:39 AM   #196
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One slice, 1/8 of the pie, is only about 5 carbs not counting the crust. So for a holiday pie, once or twice a year, it's pretty good.
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Old 12-22-2005, 11:30 AM   #197
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Nature's Flavors makes a molasses syrup sweetened with Splenda. I have heard both good and bad about their syrups, so I don't know how this one measures up.
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Old 12-22-2005, 12:33 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theislandgirl
You're very welcome! (I too have a former "data" background, as you can see... )

...and yes, as long as the PolyD can be had USPS US Postal Service of some kind (never mind air or ground, just go with the Postal part) and NOT "courier" Ground/Standard/Truck, you can avoid (border/customs paperwork-based) brokerage fees from UPS or Fedex or ...whatever.

Jude, thanks for the shipping info., I have printed it out for easy access. I'm glad you're taking care of the internal flora, good idea. Now, I'm starting to wonder what would take care of excess-polyd or fibre gut, but nothing hits yet. Maybe when I get the polyd.! Although I'd hate to find out the hard way! Hi-potency enzymes might do it, but that defeats the whole idea of fibre being low-carb because you DON'T digest most of it. I suppose it might be good in an emergency. Perhaps Swedish Bitters...but I'll report back when I figure it out.....at this point, just slowly getting used to fibre would be the best idea....
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:19 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datahamstr
BTW, if you just needed the sweetening aspect of one cup sugar, it would just be :
1/3 C. splenda equivalent
1/3 C. erythritol
1 packet Sweet One ace K (2 t. equivalent)

Wouldn't it? Would that still avoid the coolness of the E., etc.? And if you wanted to economize, could you use less E. and more Splenda (like 1/4 cup Erythritol and 1/2 c. Splenda?)
Thanks again,
Datahamstr
The polyd accounts for a tiny amount of sweetness (it's 10% as sweet as sugar), so you'll need to compensate. It complicates things measuring-wise, but I'd add 1 T. splenda equivalent.

1/3 C. + 1 T. splenda equivalent
1/3 C. erythritol
1 packet Sweet One ace K (2 t. equivalent)

This should definitely avoid the coolness of the E, but it might get into a tricky area as far as re-crystallization goes because you're removing polyd, a known crystallization inhibitor. It'll depend on the recipe, but if you get sandy/grainy results- that's the e reverting back to a crystalline state on you.

As far as economizing goes (and resolving potential crystallization issues), the numbers you quoted are on the money:

1/2 C. splenda equivalent
1/4 C. erythritol
1 packet Sweet One ace K (2 t. equivalent)
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Old 12-30-2005, 07:30 PM   #200
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Thanks very much, Scott, I appreciate the info.
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:49 AM   #201
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I want to try Jaideye's brownies--I have the concentrated (sweetzfree) liquid splenda. Not sure how much sugar the recipe is replacing--anyone made the conversion. I'm assuming just a drop of the concentrated version but thought I'd ask. Wish I had some SF choc chips to use but I don't. I can't even find a good unsweetened choc around here--Baker's is all our store carries (though they sometimes have Nestle's premelted unsw choc).
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:03 AM   #202
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I think you're correct in assuming a drop of the concentrated version. Linda Sue has a conversion chart in her website: http://users3.ev1.net/~fontlady/sple...ion_chart.html

Jaideyes is replacing quite a bit of sugar, but is relying on the synergy of using several sweeteners together, far superior to using just 1 sweetener.

Fortunately, it looks like the sf choc chips are coming back. Hooray!
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Old 01-15-2006, 05:07 PM   #203
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Hi! I'm new here, and just jumping in. The toffee looks wonderful!

I have a question on the sweeteners - what is Sugar Slim? I couldn't find anything via google or mysimon. My current sweetener of choice is a blend called Steviva, which is erythritol plus Stevia. Would that sub for Sugar Slim?

I can't use ACE-K (gives me migraines like aspartame). Splenda is tasty in small amounts, but if I use too much I don't feel well. (I do have Da Vinci syrups and Fiber Fit powder to cook with.) Whey Low is great to cook with, and doesn't spike my blood sugar, but does give me sugar cravings. Saccharin is just ick.

Does anyone have any suggestions for my own "post synergy" sweetener recipe, or a mixture with polydextrose that I can use?

"adTHANKSvance"!
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Old 01-16-2006, 06:35 AM   #204
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Welcome Andrea!


Migraines from the ace k, huh? Are you certain it's the ace k causing the migraines? Have you thoroughly tested it (double blind, etc.)? Does ace k give you migraines in any quantity?

I'm curious, does the Davinci/fiberfit bother you as much as granular splenda?

Try doing a search for sugarslim (one word).

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Old 01-16-2006, 06:43 AM   #205
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Hey, Scott123, just wanted to say you are my LC baking/cooking hero. And no, I'm not gonna stalk ya!

You're just so smart, and you do your research, and you help.

Whoop whoop!
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Old 01-16-2006, 06:57 AM   #206
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As far as a formula goes...

Here's what I'd go with:

For 1 C. sweetening equivalent:
1/2 C. steviva blend
1/4 C. splenda equivalent (either fiberfit or davincis)
1/2 C. polyd

I think that would be ideal. If 1/4 C. splenda is too much for you, then you might be able to tweak it down to:

2/3 C. steviva blend
2 T. splenda equivalent (either fiberfit or davincis)
1/3 C. polyd

It won't be as good, though.

P.S. In the process of figuring out a formula, I did a little research on steviva. WOW, that stuff is expensive! If you buy the erythritol and the stevia extract separately, you'll save a bundle.
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Old 01-16-2006, 06:43 PM   #207
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what is steviva blend??
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Old 01-17-2006, 05:18 AM   #208
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Magnamater, you're not going to stalk me? Why not?

Thanks for your very kind words.

Brenda, steviva is a brand of stevia. If you google it, lot's of info will come up.
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Old 01-17-2006, 07:54 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott123
Magnamater, you're not going to stalk me? Why not?

Thanks for your very kind words.

Brenda, steviva is a brand of stevia. If you google it, lot's of info will come up.
Hmmmm ....may have to try this steviva blend.....sounds great. Thanks Scott.
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Old 01-17-2006, 06:52 PM   #210
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Hi, Scott123!

Ace-K affects me differently than aspartame, which always provokes my migraines, usually within 45 min to an hour.

Ace-K is more of a sensitizer - it puts me into a "hair trigger" state for 24-48 hours, where even small exposure to any of my migraine triggers will flip me into one. It also (even in VERY small quantities) makes me feel depressed and spacey the day after ingesting it. And I have accidentally verified this in a double-blind way by data-mining the health journal I keep and going back and reading ingredients lists on new foods on days of and preceding a migraine and other symptoms that couldn't be explained at the time.

And re the Steviva blend - it's erythritol and white Stevia powder. I have both of those separately, but for some reason mixing the two doesn't give me as good results as using the Steviva blend. (It really is like sugar - I even dip strawberries and sour cream into it.) The purchased blend doesn't have the "mouth cooling" effect of erythritol or the licorice/swampy aftertaste of most Stevias. But I was just guesstimating the amount of Stevia to mix in, so that may have been a factor.
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