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-   -   The Witching Hour! (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=890196)

p0rtia 10-25-2017 08:58 AM

The Witching Hour!
 
It's the time of day when you are Always Hungry,

come hell or high water.

It's:
(drumroll)

The Witching Hour!*

What I'd like to know is, if you have a witching hour, 1) when is it?

And if you have a Witching Hour, 2) has it changed over the years?

Or 3) does it change depending on WOE?

Or 4) does it change depending on something else?

For example, my Witching Hour is 4 PM. It never changes. I can set my clock by it. I have a friend whose Witching Hour is 2 AM (ugh).

I'm just curious to know if there are any patterns.


*(For Halloween, get it? :laugh: )

handbells 10-26-2017 11:21 AM

I can't say I have a witching hour when it comes to food, but I always get sleepy around 2pm and could take a nap! lol! I've been this way for years.

Carly 10-26-2017 01:47 PM

So, until this past spring I never felt hungry before 8pm.
Now I get quite hungry around 5:30pm or 6pm. If Iím busy or out and about I can ignore it, but if Iím home itís hard. I have no idea what caused this. I hate it.

quietnite 10-27-2017 09:43 AM

My witching hour is about 8 pm I'm a night time snack addict. I make it super low cal now on DD but my mouth wants something.

jhmart 10-28-2017 07:09 AM

The moment I come home from work. So I guess between 6:30 and 7:00pm. I vividly remember my old witching hour being the moment I came home from school? So I see a pattern (I need to not go to work lol)

leonak 10-28-2017 05:21 PM

Mine is when I have a "drink" then comes the snacks!!!

Like tonight! Split a can of beer with dh, then had half a slim jim, 4 crackers, then half a english muffin toasted with lots of butter!

Best just go to bed now - feeling full and fat!

Good subject, now tell us how to get rid of the witching hour! PLEASE!!

vanilla_latte 11-01-2017 07:10 AM

When I get home from work, without fail. Not a problem on UDs but on DDs I fix some coffee w/HWC. I can break the habit if I get into doing something right away. Like jhmart, it used to be getting home from school. Definitely a pattern even though I haven't been in school in years!!!

SlimNana 11-01-2017 08:54 AM

3 pm is usually mine. Now that itís getting colder and Iím in WLM, Iíll have hot bone broth until dinner time around 6 pm.

Bluebelle 11-01-2017 09:53 AM

9 or 10am. I start work at 5am. :eek:

Howeeeever I cannot sleep if I don't have some semblance of dinner. So I would say the witching hour comes twice!

Carly 11-01-2017 12:08 PM

I wonder if it has anything to do with our circadian rhythms? Mine, I'm certain, are all kinds of messed up, because let's face it- sleepwalking multiple times per night is just NOT normal!!!!!!!!

p0rtia 11-01-2017 02:09 PM

Well I was all set to conclude that a later afternoon/early evening pattern was developing--until Bluebelle popped up with mid morning (even with the early work schedule).

Carly: So I read up on circadian rhythms, and criterion two seems to be that the rhythm in question can be reset by external stimuli. For me nothing on Earth resets my 4 PM hunger. That said, gotta read up more and see examples of CR.

Carly 11-01-2017 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0rtia (Post 17679600)
Well I was all set to conclude that a later afternoon/early evening pattern was developing--until Bluebelle popped up with mid morning (even with the early work schedule).

Carly: So I read up on circadian rhythms, and criterion two seems to be that the rhythm in question can be reset by external stimuli. For me nothing on Earth resets my 4 PM hunger. That said, gotta read up more and see examples of CR.

I don't know very much about them, so my guess could be way off. I wake up at 4 am (or before) during the work week, so part of me understands why I might be hungry around 5:30 pm or 6 pm when I get home from work, but it's a fairly new development (being hungry then) and I've been waking up at this time for 2 years now... before that I was waking up around 5:15am... so...

p0rtia 11-01-2017 04:35 PM

I wonder if the daily hunger is a question of ghrelin. Must research....

http://www.yourhormones.info/hormones/ghrelin/

Rosey 11-02-2017 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhmart (Post 17678246)
The moment I come home from work. So I guess between 6:30 and 7:00pm. I vividly remember my old witching hour being the moment I came home from school? So I see a pattern (I need to not go to work lol)

Same boat. The moment I enter my house I go straight to the kitchen. In 2015 I hired a personal trainer so I had to go to gym before going home, That made me realize this is just a bad habit that one can break with a new habit.

p0rtia 11-02-2017 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosey (Post 17679743)
Same boat. The moment I enter my house I go straight to the kitchen. In 2015 I hired a personal trainer so I had to go to gym before going home, That made me realize this is just a bad habit that one can break with a new habit.

Way to go, Rosey. I like the lateral thinking as a way to take control.

quietnite 11-02-2017 05:12 AM

I am trying to put new behavior in place because eating at bedtime is a habit I have a hard time breaking. For now I just work it in my JUDDD schedule but it's a thing I'm becoming more aware of and now wanting to replace with healthier stuff, eventually eliminate.

p0rtia 11-02-2017 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietnite (Post 17679785)
I am trying to put new behavior in place because eating at bedtime is a habit I have a hard time breaking. For now I just work it in my JUDDD schedule but it's a thing I'm becoming more aware of and now wanting to replace with healthier stuff, eventually eliminate.

I have a similar habit I'm trying to undo. Not bedtime eating exactly, but having supper at 7--so that I DON'T get hungry at bedtime/DO go to bed full. Well that's fine, I guess, but the problem is that I get hungry at 4 PM, so my habit has been to snack (hunger fear again).

I used to think that if I could make it till 4, I'd be okay, but I've realized lately that the calories I consume between 4 and 7 are a problem--not least because they're empty calories. If I eat in this way to kill hunger, by the time I get around to supper I am full.

So for the past week, I've been eating earlier--if I get uber-hungry at 4, I prepare supper, and eat at around 5. I then have a 200 or so cal snack at 7 or 8 (this is UDs, I'm talking about). Early days, but it seems fine; it seems normal. I'm satisfied and am eating more healthily than is my wont (fresh veg, some fruit, cheese, turkey, beans, avacado, Joseph's low carb pita which I love, feta, eggs, and oh yeah, that Artic Zero LOL).

I'm thinking if I can get comfortable with eating at 5 or 6 (at least when I'm in control of when I eat), this might have positive repercussions.

quietnite 11-02-2017 08:59 AM

Portia, I think that is the fun/effectiveness of JUDDD - the thinking and experimenting, seeing what's happening, what works, making small changes. I love that the rotations leave room for all of this without feeling like "Damn, I blew it, I give up."

I eat an early dinner because I eat healthier stuff that way usually, but then I need or want to eat something at bedtime. So I guess we are the flipside of the same thing.

p0rtia 11-02-2017 10:06 AM

Very true, quietnite. Once you take on board the idea that When you eat is as important as What you eat, it's amazing the doors of possibility that open.

JUDDD has released me from the rigid idea I used to have that it was impossible to just east like a normal person and still lose weight, and, by extension, that if I ate something that would throw me out of ketosis, it was like throwing my chances of weight-loss over a cliff and I might as well quit.

vanilla_latte 11-03-2017 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0rtia (Post 17679935)
JUDDD has released me from the rigid idea I used to have that it was impossible to just east like a normal person and still lose weight, and, by extension, that if I ate something that would throw me out of ketosis, it was like throwing my chances of weight-loss over a cliff and I might as well quit.

What a mouthful there! I began JUDDD when it first came years ago. I have typically eaten low carb but with JUDDD it felt great to know that if I ate off plan, it wasn't going to do me in. I lost about 15 lbs., then went on vacation and you know the rest. I've learned much more about low carb and fully believe it's best for our bodies (mine, anyway). But if I indulged in a carb night or something, I'd feel terribly guilty and kick myself for abandoning my beliefs or something similar. My many returns to JUDDD have been both happy and frustrating. Despite the frustrations (not losing as much weight as everyone else), it is a "plan" that really does suit me. I can fast, but still have my coffee with cream. Even if the scale doesn't move, I see some NSV's. Not as many as others, much like the lack of weight loss, but I do. I've also learned I get terribly frustrated easily and jump ship too soon. Now, someone throw a noose around my neck if I decide to leave again. :p

p0rtia 11-05-2017 09:06 AM

Back to circadian rhythms-- So yes, reading shows that the witching hour is definitely a circadian rhythm (I think that's a "duh", but sometimes I'm slow).

This study on hunger peaks and troughs is fun: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23456944

"There was a large endogenous circadian rhythm in hunger, with the trough in the biological morning (8 AM) and peak in the biological evening (8 PM...) ... Similarly-phased significant endogenous circadian rhythms were present in appetites for sweet, salty and starchy foods, fruits, meats/poultry, food overall, and for estimates of how much food participants could eat."

I'm wondering if my 4 PM witching hour will be at 3 today.

Carly 11-05-2017 01:31 PM

My peak has always been around been around 8pm-9pm, but if I wake up really early it can come earlier.

I'm sure the sleepwalking and sleep eating (if food isn't locked up) must have something to do with messed up CR. Just not sure what...

p0rtia 11-05-2017 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carly (Post 17680985)
My peak has always been around been around 8pm-9pm, but if I wake up really early it can come earlier.

I'm sure the sleepwalking and sleep eating (if food isn't locked up) must have something to do with messed up CR. Just not sure what...

I tried to find out if sleepwalking has any relationship to circadian rhythm, but came up blanks. It's all about the sun, light and dark, and how it sets your internal clock to wake up, feel tired, eat, feel hungry, feel full (I always feel full at 8 PM, whether I eat or not). Nothing I've seen indicates that sleepwalking is tied to CRs. :dunno:

Carly 11-06-2017 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0rtia (Post 17681022)
I tried to find out if sleepwalking has any relationship to circadian rhythm, but came up blanks. It's all about the sun, light and dark, and how it sets your internal clock to wake up, feel tired, eat, feel hungry, feel full (I always feel full at 8 PM, whether I eat or not). Nothing I've seen indicates that sleepwalking is tied to CRs. :dunno:

I think it might because something is sending a message to "wake-up" even though the message doesn't go through completely. I could be way off. I really have no idea. It's beyond frustrating. I can be up and down all night and sleep walk many times and then I will start to sleep more deeply around 3-3:30am, which is frustrating during the week, since I need to start waking up then.

p0rtia 11-08-2017 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carly (Post 17681178)
I think it might because something is sending a message to "wake-up" even though the message doesn't go through completely. I could be way off. I really have no idea. It's beyond frustrating. I can be up and down all night and sleep walk many times and then I will start to sleep more deeply around 3-3:30am, which is frustrating during the week, since I need to start waking up then.

As I adore you :high5: I've often though who exceedingly unpleasant it must be to live with this. We all have our crosses to bear, but yeah, it just sucks. I used to sleep walk as a teen (would go to bed as usual in my room and wake up downstairs on the TV room sofa, etc.) but not in decades. I gotta go find a link I tracked down last week that said something about sleepwalking. Be back.

p0rtia 11-09-2017 12:13 PM

I can tell I'm back in my normal routine: My 4 PM Witching Hour just hit, one hour early thanks to the Time Change!

p0rtia 11-09-2017 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carly (Post 17681178)
I think it might because something is sending a message to "wake-up" even though the message doesn't go through completely. I could be way off. I really have no idea. It's beyond frustrating. I can be up and down all night and sleep walk many times and then I will start to sleep more deeply around 3-3:30am, which is frustrating during the week, since I need to start waking up then.

So the culprit appears to be called Nocturnal Sleep-Related Eating Disorder (NS-RED). Considered a sleep disorder, not an eating disorder (despite the name--they should punctuate it as "Sleep-Related-Eating Disorder to clarify that). Bunch of pages about it, no easy fixes. Here's a link to a page that give the most info:

https://www.mirror-mirror.org/sleep-eating-disorder.htm

Carly 11-10-2017 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0rtia (Post 17682416)
So the culprit appears to be called Nocturnal Sleep-Related Eating Disorder (NS-RED). Considered a sleep disorder, not an eating disorder (despite the name--they should punctuate it as "Sleep-Related-Eating Disorder to clarify that). Bunch of pages about it, no easy fixes. Here's a link to a page that give the most info:

https://www.mirror-mirror.org/sleep-eating-disorder.htm

Thanks for the link p0rtia. We do keep the pantry locked at night, but not the fridge because I also get thirsty during the night and need to get fresh cold liquids. I kind of like tieing a tread to my wrist, but I'm a bit nervous about that.

DW says I walk right into the bedposts, walls, and armoire, so might hurt my wrist if the thread did tear quickly.

p0rtia 11-16-2017 12:14 PM

Not at all sure that this has anything to do with the mysterious Witching Hour, but I've been experiencing something new lately. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a normal thing, too, but I ate in abnormal ways for so long that I have a hard time telling and am weirded out by the oddness of it (to me). So I'm wondering if others have had this experience.

So. here's the thing: Recently I started having more hearty lunches (more cals, more protein). And (drum roll), I've started feeling quite full about two hours after these hearty lunches. Yeah, I know, right? What's not to like?

Thing is, this is unheard of for me. For twenty or thirty years, I've like NEVER been full unless I've binged. Since my tipping point (2.5 years ago), I've adopted the popular technique of "wait twenty minutes and you'll feel full." It hasn't worked for me. I've tried "wait half an hour" and then "wait an hour". Nada.

But now, every UD, I break my fast around 12 or 1, and wolf back (sorry, old habits die hard) between 600 and 800 cals (rather than the 300 or 400 I previously allowed myself). I did this today. And here I sit, two hours later--stuffed. The idea of food is slightly nauseating (and believe me, I NEVER feel this way).

So yeah, two hours. Weird. Wonderful. (Both). Does this happen to other people? Ex-bingers? I guess the question is, when do people feel satiated after a meal?

I LOVE this feeling. I think maybe this is what the Norms feel when they've had a large lunch. I think it's mostly due to the increase in cals. And is it possible that all the Z-fasting I did over the summer has resulted in a major reset of some sort?

The first few times it happened, I'd had an Extremely Large Lunch, and two hours later I felt uncomfortable--like I had eaten too much. And my tummy said, "Ugh, this is really uncomfortable. I don't like to feel t his way, could you stop a little sooner next time?" And I'm like, "Well, yeah, but could you maybe jump in a little sooner than two freaking hours after the fact? I mean, at the time, I didn't feel full at all."

And get this: After that happened two or three times, I remembered, and, like today, stopped eating my expanded lunch at a point where I somehow new I would be full, but not overfull. So now, two hours later, I'm like, really wonderfully full, but not overfull. I freaking love this, whatever it is.

Anybody have any experiences like this?

Confessions of an ex-binger.

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

Carly 11-17-2017 05:49 AM

I'm guessing it's partly due to the larger meal, but I actually think it's mostly due to EOD. I know it sounds crazy that appetite can be so much more reduced by EOD than 4:3, but that is my experience. In the past 5 years of maintaining I have done rounds of 5:2, 4:3 and EOD. Hands down, my appetite is tremendously diminished on EOD. I have no idea why, but that is the case for me.


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