Paging Kimmer, Dana, or other Retin-A users>>

[Shae]

I know, I know! This is not the right board for this but I was afraid you gals might not see it!
I know both of you have been using Retin-A for a while now. I was wondering what strength you use. I've been using .025% for 2 years now and I kinda don't think it's strong enough. I still have a *few* clogged pores and was thinking about ordering the .1% cream(BTW-my skin it used to this--I have NO irritation at all). What do you all use, what's your skincare routine and what type of sunscreen/sunblock do you use?
Thanks SO MUCH ladies!

Hi! Yes, we're both Retin-A users. In case Dana doesn't see this, I'll answer for her about strength. She posted that she uses Renova which is .05% (middle strength). I don't recall her mentioning what the rest of her regime is.

I use .1% and have from day 1. It's the strongest strength. I had a reaction to it at the beginning 10 years ago (I have fair "English" skin) but that subsided in 2 days and the old skin literally peeled off in the shower with facial scrub.

I have dry skin, but don't do the traditional "dry skin" thing. My skincare is this:

Morning:

1) Wash my face in the shower with Ivory
2) Wait a few minutes for skin to dry (feel tight)
3) Apply Retin A .1%
4) Apply Olay Regenerist moisturizer with SPF 15

Evening:

1) Wash my face in the shower with Ivory & St. Ives Apricot scrub (scrub alone will not loosen dead skin evenly)
2) Wait a few minutes for skin to dry (feel tight)
3) Apply Retin A .1%
4) Apply glycolic acid lotion 12% (can't do in the morning, makes skin too sticky for makeup foundation)

I have dry skin and you're supposed to wash it with cleansing cream, blah, blah, blah. What you end up with very soft, very moisturized "dull" skin because the dead skin layers are stuck together with the "glue" of the cream. Using a soap (Ivory) wipes away the oils and allows the Retin A and Glycolic Acid to do their magic (and it IS!)

I don't put much stock in fancy brands. I want Retin A, nothing at a store can match prescription strength .1%. I want a very strong AHA and 12% is the strongest I've found OTC. The brand I buy is very plain, very strong. Regular OTC AHAs are too weak. Estee Lauder's Fruition is only 4%!

Retin A is the only product that has been shown to actually rebuild collagen on a cellular level.

And, I know this sounds like bragging (well, it is!), but I just turned 45 last Saturday and my face is completely unlined. No crows feet, no "fine" lines around my eyes, cheeks or lips. I owe much of that to using sunscreen when I was a teenager. I had dry skin and Oil of Olay was the first company to include suncreen in their lotions. I have always avoided the sun at all costs (not for my skin, but because I can't stand being "hot", LOL!)

Well, this was way more than you wanted to know, huh?

[Shae]

You are my skin/looks idol! Seriously! I am 29 and really look 29 on bad days (I think due to stress and kids!) but my goal is to HALT the aging process of my skin as much as humanly possible! You're right about the Retin-A/Renova issue--it's the ONLY product proven to rebuild collagen. I'm amazed that more women don't stop wasting their money at the expensive cosmetic counters and spend it at the dermatologist office. And once you know Retin-A works you can buy it SO much cheaper online!

BTW---for anyone reading this......I am NOT a silly, vain women! I put my relationship with God, my hubby, and my children first in my life! I know what's really important in this world and try to always keep that in perspective. But I will admit that I have aging issues (probably has alot to do with how older people are treated/viewed in our society--especially women). I just want to keep looking great as long as I possibly can!

Kimmer--thanks again! You give so many of us here hope on all different levels!

Shae, you're welcome! BTW, where do you buy on-line? Dana had a link but I didn't save it.

I'm about 90 minutes from Tijuana, Mexico so I've been going on daytrips a couple times a year and buying it down there -- $10 for the 45 gm tube. This sounds good until you factor in how I spend on "tourist" stuff at the border, LOL!

[Shae]

I just thought of 2 more ?s.......

What brand of AHA do you use? I have used the Alpha Hydrox brand in the past but I believe it's either 7 or 10%???. And how are you liking the Regenerist? I received a sample of the serum in the mail but was afraid to use it (breakouts) and it really had a strong smell.

Thank you!

[Shae]

removed
There may be cheaper but so far this is what I've found.

Shae, I'll have to find the AHA brand. It's a tall white bottle with green lettering (bought it at the pharmacy at Kaiser hospital). It has a very strong "medicine" smell, but works wonderful. It's a big bottle (10 oz?) and the label paint has worn off. I'll find the name though.

I like the Regenerist. I bought the big bottle after getting my mail sample too. It's not oily at all, kind of sinks into your skin.

If you upgrade to a stronger Retin A you won't have any problems with breakouts. That was the original reason my doc prescribed it because I had one area near my chin that would get a cystic type acne once a month -- the whole area would go numb. Started using the .1% and never happened again.

I've seen commercials for the Retin A micro, it's targeted for teenagers but it's strong -- .1%. Surprised me a bit.

I used to use Alphy Hydroxy 10% before I found the generic "green label" stuff. I think it worked pretty good too!

[Shae]

Again, thanks for the skincare advice and for all the help and inspiration you give others.

[WLS]

Oh COOL! I am going to Mexico in June. I have been there a few times before and never really thought about looking for medication type things. Hmm, I usually get spices, vanilla beans etc. I use Retin-A as well (for several years now) Do they sell that over the counter in Cozumel? What other type of goodies like that can I find if I look? Thanks

WLS, I would imagine they sell the same stuff in Cozumel. Go to any Farmacia and ask them for Retin A. Even if they don't speak English (and they all seem to), they understand "Retin A". Check the labels carefully for strength, sometimes the brands are different. I buy 3-4 tubes each time, lasts me a year.

Thanks for the nice words, Shea!

[WLS]

Thanks for the info Kimmer! Gonna stock up!

[Dana114]

One of my favorite subjects! Thanks for answering for me, Kimmer. You are right, I use Renova .05%. Shae, I agree with everything Kimmer said and I also don't have any lines or wrinkles and am the same age. At your age, the only thing you should need is a good cleanser,[Cetaphil] sunscreen, Retin A/Renova and a good AHA. You should also exfoliate at least once a week or all these products can't penetrate effectively. Retin A will knock out your lines and keep them away. Alpha Hydrox is a really good non-comedogenic over the counter AHA. I prefer glycolic acid in higher strengths, though, because AHA make my skin break out.

When you get in your 40's, you can start using Vitamin C serums, which also stimulate collagen production and keep skin very elastic and plumped up. I love the stuff! [only certain brands are stable, though, most are worthless]
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[Shae]

a women in her 40s! I'll say to you what I said to Kimmer.......you're my skin idol!
Dana, how long have you been using it? Also, did you have any wrinkles when you first started. I'm really hoping to HALT the aging process on my skin---maybe even turn back the clock a year or two!

Again, I think it's amazing that you two have no/little wrinkles! Oh I hope I can be the same!!!!!!!!

[Dana114]

Thanks Shae! Yes, I was pretty wrinkled up when I started taking care of my skin at age 40. I had crows feet, sagging skin and smokers lines around my mouth. I had been smoking 4 packs a day for years and quit in October 98. My younger brother, who looks just like me, is 4 years younger than me but he looks 5 years older. [he doesn't take care of his skin at all] But yes, a regimen of retinol/Renova, glycolic acid and vitamin C serum completely changed my skin around. It probably knocked 8 years off.

I started using Avon's retinol treatment [a milder derivative of tretonin] in 99 and graduated up to Renova in 2001. It probably took about 6 months to see a difference and it just gets better the longer you use it. Good luck!

[Shae]

Very encouraging as well! It's nice to know we CAN control the aging process (at least to an extent!).

Thanks again!

[westendgirl]

Hi Ladies,

Your topic has absolutely intrigued me!! I am 28 and I would say I look my age. In the past few years I've been noticing the very, very fine lines appearing around my eyes (I'm sure it's from all that tanning when I was younger!). I try to take care of my skin (sunscreen/exfoliate/mosturize) but I think this Retinol stuff is just what the doctor ordered.

My question - do you need a prescription for this? I live in Canada but I think our regulations are pretty similar.

Can I buy it on line without a prescription?

I hope I look as good as you ladies when I am 35, let alone 45!!

Sonia

[Dana114]

westendgirl, you can order it without a prescription from Mexico. A close alternative that you can get over the counter is retinol from Avon if you don't have serious lines. Retinol will also prevent future lines.

Originally posted by Dana114
Thanks for answering for me, Kimmer.

No problem, Dana, always glad to put words in your mouth!

When you get in your 40's, you can start using Vitamin C serums, which also stimulate collagen production and keep skin very elastic and plumped up. I love the stuff! (only certain brands are stable, though, most are worthless)

Yikes! How could I have forgotten the Vitamin C? Dana's totally right about stabilization. Most creams w/ Vit C are worthless because it's simply added to the cream and begins to break down almost immediately. Currently I use Avon's Vit C Serum, $20, 10%. I'd love to buy Skinceutical's brand 20%, but it's $95 and the budget doesn't stretch that far.

If you're familiar with Dr. Fields and Dr. Rodan (they developed and sell Proactiv treatment for acne), they are the reason I added the Vitamin C. If you see photos of them they're in their 40s and look extremely good for their age. In More magazine a few years ago they asked doctors what they use on their skin and they both said Retin A, sunscreen, stabilized Vitamin C (different cleansers though).

With these good online prices, why in heck am I trekking over to Mexico (risking a car accident and impound, LOL!)???

[westendgirl]

OK ladies, I was out shopping yesterday in Walmart (Canada) in the pharmacy section. I found a cream, brand name NeoStrata (made by a Canadian company called Canderm), that makes an 8% glycolic acid "Smoothing Cream" as they call it. Well, it was $24 (Canadian) so I thought I would try it.

I brought it home and read up on the info in the package and low and behold, they appear to offer some pretty good products. They even offer a Vit C + 0.15% retinol product for about $30 (Canadian, 30mL) with no prescription needed!!!!!

I'm assuming only the Walmarts in Canada would carry this product since it is a Canada company but you can also order on-line. Here is the link to their website with the products they offer:

http://www.canderm.com/page.asp?intNodeID=8025

[Dana114]

Westendgirl, the only way they could combine retinol and Vitamin C in the same product is if they just added an insignificant amount of vitamin C. The 2 products do not interact well and cause great irritation when combined or used at the time of day. They should be used at opposite ends of the day. This product is also very overpriced. You can get the same thing from Avon, Retinol, for around $16. You don't have to pay alot to get a good retinol cream.
This company is also selling "collagen" creams and collagen cannot penetrate the skin from the outside according to my dermatologist.

A good, ascorbic acid [stabilized Vit C] is going to cost you around $100 and at your age, you really don't even need that yet. The stabilized brands are Cellex-C and Skinceuticals.

The glycolic acid sounds like a good buy and 8% is a good starter level. When you get done with that jar, you should be able to graduate to 10% Aqua Glycolic.

Westend, Dana is right. The cosmetic shelves are lined with creams offering "Vitamin C" and they are worthless as a treatment.

OTC Retinol is a weak version of Retin-A. I use .1% Retin A, the weakest strength is .01% (10 times weaker) and Retinol is weaker than that. If you can't get actual Retin-A, it's the best you can use.

My info is the same as what Dana's doc said (as if Dana's doc needs my concurrence, LOL!) Topically applied collagen has a too large molecule and can't penetrate. I've read that even if the molecule was smaller, it wouldn't bond to human collagen (guessing it's from another mammal source?) Injected collagen sits on top of the other human tissue, it doesn't bond either.

Quick explanation of why Retin-A/Vit C works. Collagen is like tiny rubber bands that hold your skin to the underlying muscle. Mainly due to sun damage (according to reading), the UVA rays (not the B ones that burn) deteriorate the collagen and the "rubber bands" stretch -- sagging skin is the result. Until Retin-A, nothing could tighten the rubber bands. Now they can be. Retin-A skin looks better than facelifted skin because lifted skin is still 'saggy' but stretched.

Anyone who isn't sure they want to start Retin-A, here's two tests:

1) Apply a clay masque, let dry, smile hard. Those are the wrinkles that will appear in 5-10 years.

2) Lift your hands up and flex back toward your arms. Which side has more wrinkles? Probably the left one. That's the hand that's on your steering wheel getting sun while driving. This is a perfect example of innocent sun damage.

Oh, Assumed, you want a LC tie in for this thread? OK, for anyone who's losing weight and experiencing sagging skin, the Retin-A and stablized Vitamin C we're discussing will help to rebuild the collagen. There is also evidence that Retin-A applied to new stretch marks will help rebuild the collagen so the marks disappear.

[Dana114]

Dang, she's good!

Dana, thanks! OK, so now that I sound totally consumed with my appearance ... geez!

[DeborahT]

Dana,

WOW, between you and Kimmer this post is quite a GIFT! Thank you both SO much.

I am 43 in June and wrinkled, I have just been botoxed a week ago and I just got the Retin-A .1 %. Do you all go all the way under your eyes?

Dana, Kimmer described her skin care regime for morning and night, would you please describe what is yours? What order and brands you are using for each step.

Sorry for all the questions, but would truely appreciate your assist.

[inatic]

very interesting topic.

Kimmer uses the vit. c from avon.. Dana which one do you use?? where do you get yours.

I have always been told that I don't look my age , now 41.. Not that i really know what 41 is supposed to look like LOL..

I do have a few wrinkles that i would like to disappear as well!! I am going to get right on this one!!

[Dana114]

Hi Deborah,
Yes, I ALWAYS use the Renova all the way around my eyes where I need it most. The only thing I don't put around my eyes are glycolic acid or reg moisturizer.

Here is my regimen and this is for normal/dry skin:

AM:

Wash with Cetaphil
Immediately apply Skinceuticals C+E and hyaluronic acid- wait 10 min
Apply water and follow with Estee Lauder Resilience Lift WITH SUNSCREEN
Apply foundation immediately

PM

Wash with Cetaphil
Apply MD Forte II glycolic acid 20% - wait 10 minutes
Apply Renova - wait 20-30 min
Apply Blisslabs Fully Loaded moisturizer with hyaluronic acid

At least once a week I exfoliate with Estee Lauder So Polished, but any good exfoliator will do. I would suggest starting with a very low level glycolic acid OR AHA [Alpha Hydrox is a good one] to start off with. You might want to wait to add this step until your skin adjusts to the Retin-A.

Vitamin C needs to be used at opposite ends of the day from any Vit A treatment. Hyuralonic acid greatly enhances the absorption of the Vitamin C and binds moisture in your skin. Great stuff for aging skin!

I buy the Skinceuticals on ebay for around $65-80; it costs $100 in skin shops. It is very much worth the money! Cetaphil is a wonderful mild cleanser that many dermatologists recommend. You can buy it at Walmart for $8. Hope this helps!

[Dana114]

Half face studies of Vitamin C use: http://www.cellex-c.com/end_user/science/half_face.html


[just to reiterate, though, most Vitamin C creams and serums are junk because they are not stabilized. The 2 best brands that I know about are Cellex-C and Skinceuticals. I have used both and I prefer SkinC]

[Shae]

and there was a gal who made her own vit. c concoction. I have NO clue if it's good or not but I know she was an expert of sorts when it came to skincare. Here is the recipe she used.......

http://www.makeupalley.com/board/m.asp?id=2108158

Hope this helps!

[Dana114]

Shae, I bet that's Pandy, right? I haven't tried her concoction [I am happy with Skinceuticals] but it sure sounds like she knows her stuff!

[Shae]

She seems to know EVERYTHING about skincare (the science of it)! Gdiv quit posting apparantly because of all the attention and constant questions she received on the board. Kind of like you and Kimmer!!