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Old 08-04-2013, 12:26 AM   #211
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...and it is really important to remember, no food, no drinking anything but water for one hour before and after the oil (or whatever bland thing you are using for appetite suppression), no brushing teeth, no smoking, no gum chewing, nothing with any flavor!!!

I told my boyfriend about the nose clipping....oh my GOSH am I in for a world of teasing, LOL...
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:41 AM   #212
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DH decided out of the blue that it would be nice to go over to Keene last night to Longhorn Steakhouse. He didn't have to ask me twice. I am supposed to have 2 regular meals a week and this one was great. Filet, salad and fresh green beans. Of course I am up 1.6 this morning - full of sodium. lol Oh well, back on it today. Plan on having 3 poached eggs at the the Backside Restaurant after church this morning and will drink black coffee.

Have a great day!
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:08 AM   #213
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I told my boyfriend about the nose clipping....oh my GOSH am I in for a world of teasing, LOL...
I ordered the clip from amazon you recommended. Can't wait to see my DH face when I start using it
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:12 AM   #214
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Down 1.2 lb this morning That's 5 lb in 3 days! I am sure 1 or 2 lbs is water weight since I stopped eating carbs 3 days ago after 2 days binge, but still it is remarkable.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:13 AM   #215
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Abigale- I am sorry I don't remember, do you only do the unflavored food or you also do SLD?

Have a great Sunday all!
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Old 08-04-2013, 06:41 AM   #216
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Wow Marika! You are losing quite well!

I had 3 pretty much non-SLD days, so I will begin today with the oil shots and go for bland. I did gain almost 2 lbs, which is to be expected but for once I am not panicked.

I noticed something very strange yesterday and Friday. Even though I wasn't doing the shots, I felt like I was overly full and even when I hadn't really eaten that much? Does this signify that the oil shots are lowering our standard of normal calories? For instance yesterday, I had a simple salad full of good veggies and turkey for lunch, no spice or dressing. I never really felt hunger afterwards. For dinner I had planned to have a big baked tater and steak plus veggies. I barely could eat the dinner and that is one of my favs. It felt as if I was forcing the meal and probably could have forgone dinner and made out fine. This is remarkable.

My appetite is very much affected by the daily shots of flavorless oil, to the point, that it lasts well after even when not taking the shots.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:46 AM   #217
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According to Seth Roberts, nothing works like oil. It works better than the sugar water.

I think the flavorless chia seeds in water work, and I suspect plain potato soup with no salt or spices and a lot of water works too. It tastes like nothing with a hint of dirt.

I will admit MCT oil works best, better than the extra light olive oil. If you don't like these, Seth Roberts suggests nose clipping other oils that have some flavor so you can get the effect.
I was thrown by the sugar water, when first reading about Shangri La back when PJ introduced it a year ago. In my mind, I couldn't process drinking sugar water and it blunting my appetite?

I am concerned that I will not keep my cals up high enough while doing this. Should this be a worry or should I just relax?
I tend to lean that direction and have to make myself eat sometimes, so I guess I don't want to become the person that can't eat a normal amount of cals. I will keep tracking food cals and macros while doing this and will report if I see a trend of under nourishment.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:20 AM   #218
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Marika, I am doing the bland food which is the number 5 level from Guyanet. I have had a tbl of coconut oil in my first cup of coffee for a year as I think it is good for my brain. Then last week I started having one more late in the afternoon for digestion purposes. The oil in the morning has never made me lose weight or my appetite. Eating bland food makes me lose my appetite. lol
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:18 AM   #219
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Down 1.2 lb this morning That's 5 lb in 3 days! I am sure 1 or 2 lbs is water weight since I stopped eating carbs 3 days ago after 2 days binge, but still it is remarkable.
Marika, that is a great start!!!

You start of thinking it is water, but when it continues and continues...!!!

The nose clipping...LOL!!! I think this is the one thing that is going to make people think I have lost it...
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:25 AM   #220
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Wow Marika! You are losing quite well!

I had 3 pretty much non-SLD days, so I will begin today with the oil shots and go for bland. I did gain almost 2 lbs, which is to be expected but for once I am not panicked.

I noticed something very strange yesterday and Friday. Even though I wasn't doing the shots, I felt like I was overly full and even when I hadn't really eaten that much? Does this signify that the oil shots are lowering our standard of normal calories? For instance yesterday, I had a simple salad full of good veggies and turkey for lunch, no spice or dressing. I never really felt hunger afterwards. For dinner I had planned to have a big baked tater and steak plus veggies. I barely could eat the dinner and that is one of my favs. It felt as if I was forcing the meal and probably could have forgone dinner and made out fine. This is remarkable.

My appetite is very much affected by the daily shots of flavorless oil, to the point, that it lasts well after even when not taking the shots.

Yep! This is what Seth Roberts said about the oil shots. It knocked out his appetite to the point where he only felt like eating every other day! It seems in some people it is really incredibly effective.

You could throttle back the oil if you need to. The recommendation was to take your weight x 2 as the caloric daily dose in oil. 100 pounds x 2 = 200 calories in oil. He said no more than 400 calories in oil per day or it cuts too far into your intake of nutrients.

I was out yesterday and did not get my second oil shot in. I had two regular meals yesterday, and I am up 3 pounds. Lunch included a salty soup, and dinner was BBQ so I am blasted with salt but I am not worried at all. I got up and had my MCT oil shot this morning and do not feel like eating at all. I did not touch my desert yesterday, brought it home (three little chocolate delights, pretty too). I am not even thinking about them. Normally, I would be able to do nothing but think about chocolate truffles sitting on my table. It is WEIRD.

The lack of desire to eat and filling up on little food is evidence that YOUR SET POINT DROPPED!!! It means your body is defending a lower weight. When you get down to that weight your body will bring your hunger and metabolic rate up to create an equilibrium to maintain the weight.
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:34 AM   #221
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I was thrown by the sugar water, when first reading about Shangri La back when PJ introduced it a year ago. In my mind, I couldn't process drinking sugar water and it blunting my appetite?

I am concerned that I will not keep my cals up high enough while doing this. Should this be a worry or should I just relax?
I tend to lean that direction and have to make myself eat sometimes, so I guess I don't want to become the person that can't eat a normal amount of cals. I will keep tracking food cals and macros while doing this and will report if I see a trend of under nourishment.

Sugar by itself is not supposed to be much of a reward. The sweet taste without a "smell" or "flavor" apparently "hacks" the system and your body doesn't react to make you want to gorge on it. I totally get it. I don't know that it would work on me since I am diabetic, but probably it would work on other people. I read some hair-brained thread on Seth Robert's site where some guy lost a huge amount of weight nose clipping regular Coke. I could not figure out why the heck do that and not just make sugar water! Good grief. Anyway, I would be afraid of getting non-alcoholic fatty liver. You can get fatty liver sucking down sugar - that darn fructose has to be processed through the liver. It is just crazy.
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:37 AM   #222
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Marika, I am doing the bland food which is the number 5 level from Guyanet. I have had a tbl of coconut oil in my first cup of coffee for a year as I think it is good for my brain. Then last week I started having one more late in the afternoon for digestion purposes. The oil in the morning has never made me lose weight or my appetite. Eating bland food makes me lose my appetite. lol
Hmmm, I did this too. I made the chocolate bars out of the coconut oil too. I ended up feeling sick. But you know, I never tried the oil just plain straight up. Maybe I would have discovered something. Who knows.

I almost made the mistake of drinking tea around my oil shots. Hard to believe this makes a difference, but I have stopped since Ouizoid pointed out my error!
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:37 AM   #223
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KT, I am hoping that lack of desire to eat is evidence that my set point has dropped! I really do love this feeling after years of cravings and compulsive overeating. It is so freeing!
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:12 PM   #224
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Yes! I wish I had discovered this years ago. I have tried so, so hard. It has been such a long haul.

Wow...the keys to the fat set point. Unbelievable.

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Old 08-04-2013, 12:32 PM   #225
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A shot of co this morning immediately turned my throat ragged and I was trying to clear it all morning. This is probably similar to what you experienced. I have never had a problem with it when with other food or drink but did get a rash when using it on my skin. Am thinking it may be a contact sensitivity based on concentration level. I just put some in baby ice cube molds and froze. Going to try to swallow like a pill before it melts. I'll let you know.

Sunday, your repeated mention of too low calories does concern me a bit from the standpoint of nutrient deficiency. You make such an effort to research the health aspects of everything that I have faith you will know where to draw the line but there is the concern that when nutritional deficiency effects the mind we may not see the truth. I know you are surroundd by people who care aboit you and would let you know if you seem to be in danger.

I am still hoping for that blissful place where food is an afterthought.
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:56 PM   #226
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Sunday, I just finished catching up and noticed the menu yoi posted a few days ago does not sound like it is lacking or even very low cal. Do you use a calculator?
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:58 PM   #227
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I am also starting to get concerned that I am not getting enough calories. I can't believe I am saying this. Me not getting enough calories?? Yes, on JUDDD DD only Last 3 days were 1130, 1005, 1210 (those numbers include 2 shots of ghee). I feel like I am eating children's portions. I may have to go down to 1 tbl of ghee or just try to eat little more. I am not hungry but am starting to feel little fatigued. Let's see how the week progresses.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:12 PM   #228
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Tomorrow I am going to add 1 oz mac nuts to raise the calories and also to see how I react to my binge trigger food. Normally, I can't control my portions with mac nuts. I wonder if SLD will make a difference.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:51 PM   #229
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Sunday, I just finished catching up and noticed the menu yoi posted a few days ago does not sound like it is lacking or even very low cal. Do you use a calculator?
Just wait, you will see what I am talking about.
Yes, I had a blowout day the 2nd day of oil sipping and reached 1800 cals which is great. However, most of the days were between 1,000 to 1400, which I am okay with because I don't feel like that is too low, just prefer not to have too many much lower.

I guess I am blown away that the appetite is gone which tends to make me have difficulty eating even on a free day, such as I had yesterday. For instance, today I have reached 500 cals, but don't really want to eat outside of my fasting window so I will take another MCT oil in an hour and that should get me to 600.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:54 PM   #230
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To all who are doing MCT or CO, it seems to not bother my throat when I drop it with a dropper right at the back and then swig warm water. I have tried to drink it from a shot glass and it tickles too much.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:33 PM   #231
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Did we sell our souls to the devil?

I have been unable to eat all day. I had some salt-free bone broth I made a few days ago that I shoved in the back of the fridge and forgot about and got that down anyway.

I have been peeing all day. Sorry if this is too much information, but my GOSH...

I am 192!!!!!

Good grief, I have lost 120 pounds now, and I ate out TWICE yesterday.

This is seriously black magic. Are we going to burn for this?

I'm kinda scared too...

LOL

kidding

kinda

WTH???
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:46 PM   #232
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WTG, KT! Have you experienced any blood sugar issue doing this and aside from your tater hacks, are you LC?
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:02 PM   #233
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No, I feel absolutely great. No blood sugar problems. I had been suffering from fatigue and it is gone. I realize it is summer, and that helps, but my goodness! I've been taking b vitamins, I've tried ginger tea, I have ginseng supplements, I was going to try prenatal vitamins next. None of it helped. Going bland and MCT oil shots are working like a miracle.

I was out doing bike sprints last night, I mowed the grass, I am cleaning out my garage...I can't remember the last time I felt so good.

I know what blood sugar problems are. I am a recovered diabetic. As long as I follow paleo I am fine. Also, eating potatoes drops my glucose levels to the low 80s as long as I eat 4 or 5 potatoes for my starch during the day. If I use brown rice instead my fasting glucose starts pushing 100. If I go low carb, my fasting blood sugar goes up to 120.

I am actually leary of going too low in carbs, but really 4 or 5 potatoes is not high carb. I do believe going too low in carbs causes insulin resistance to get worse.

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Old 08-04-2013, 05:26 PM   #234
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I also believe low carb worsens insulin resistance. It is such a delicate balance!
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:28 PM   #235
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I am actually leary of going too low in carbs, but really 4 or 5 potatoes is not high carb. I do believe going too low in carbs causes insulin resistance to get worse.
This^ I can't tell you how many PHD folks that I have read on the group that said the exact same thing. And staying very low carb can lead to gut dysbiosis for some folks. Safe starches can prevent this while remaining low to mod carb.

KT, so thrilled to hear that you have lost the small gain, I am loving that this seems to correct in similar fashion as the tater hack.
It makes me happy to know something so simple works and is not really difficult. In fact, I marvel that I never wanted to try this before now. Paul spoke about Seth's work and credited him for the research on the circadian rhythm as well. Seems funny to me now that I glossed right over the flavorless oil and paid it no attention. I must have thought at the time, well, I already take oil...no reason to take it alone.

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Old 08-05-2013, 12:37 AM   #236
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I am thrilled for you KT! 120 pounds lost and all that energy!

I am down some from yesterday. .6 so that is still up 1 pound from Saturday morning. It's to be expected. Packing broccoli, chicken thigh, and green tea for lunch. Maybe some fresh spinach before it goes bad.

Have a great Monday!
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:56 AM   #237
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The frozen oil pills worked well. Taken with warm water, they simply melted as I swallowed but were past the point of being tasteable.

I asked about the blood sugar because I had some low BS symptoms and switched to Diane Kress's protocol. No symptoms since. I am hoping this will be a way to reduce calories without bringing on symptoms again.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:54 AM   #238
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I am down .2 this morning. I can't expect to see over 1 lb everyday
I think I am going to skip the mac nuts (I am still scared of my binge triggering foods), will add some more protein instead.

KT- great on the 120 lb loss

Cici-glad that the frozen "pills" worked good for you

Hello to everyone else!
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:08 AM   #239
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I am back down the 2 lbs that I gained plus a bit. I may have been able to eat 750 yesterday, I followed Marika's advice and added Mac Nuts and one more shot of oil around 7:00 pm. I think I have found the magic spot for me. 3 separate oil tastings and completely an hour before meal, with the last being about an hour after the meal.

I started with a big, nice lunch today, so I think I will be able to get 1200 in.

I find it very interesting that the oil causes a 2 day delay for me. I started the oil yesterday and today I am finally feeling some hunger from the oil-free day on Sat. Does anyone else have this? I fasted 18 hours today, but will try and go back to 14 hours from here on out.

Congrats to Cici for the innovative method! It is so much fun when you have friends to drink oil with.
Yay to Marika! Isn't this the best?

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:26 PM   #240
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It is good to see you ladies today!

Cool that on the frozen oil pills, CiCi!

I am hanging out today with my MCT oil, bland potato lunch, and chia drink snack. Blanding out!

Ooo, check this tidbit out I found on Seth Robert's blog:

= = = = = = = = =

Is Jimmy Moore’s Ketosis Diet the Shangri-La Diet in Disguise?


Jimmy Moore lost a lot of weight eating low-carb. Starting in 2004 at 410 pounds, he lost 180 pounds. Then he gained half of it back, ending up near 300 pounds in early 2012.

The theory behind the Shangri-La Diet (SLD) says unfamiliar food will cause weight loss because its smell is not (yet) associated with calories. As the food becomes familiar, its smell becomes associated with calories. Weight loss due to unfamiliarity will disappear. Going low-carb usually involves eating unfamiliar foods. They become familiar. This explains low-carb weight regain. The theory explains partial low-carb success (e.g., Jimmy Moore didn’t regain all the lost weight) by assuming that the high-carb foods (e.g., soft drinks) given up produced stronger smell-calorie associations than the low-carb foods (e.g., steak) that replaced them.

Recently Jimmy Moore has been losing weight again. Starting at 306 pounds, over 7 months he has lost 60 pounds. He believes that to lose weight with a low-carb diet, there must be sufficient ketones in your blood — you must be at the optimal level of ketosis. “In order to be fully keto-adapted and to start burning stored body fat for fuel, ketone levels must be between 0.5 to 3.0 millimolar,” he wrote. To be fully keto-adapted, he began measuring his ketone level regularly. His first test showed that his ketone level was 0.3. “Holy cow, that could be one of the reasons why I’m not seeing my weight go down!” he wrote. He began adjusting his diet to put his ketone level between 0.5 and 3.0 millimolar, which involved changing protein intake as well as carb intake.

He changed his diet in various ways (mainly protein reduction) and started losing weight. In what I’ve read, he does not describe his current diet or earlier diet in detail, but does say this:

I will tell you that I’ve drank liberal amounts of water and 2 Tbs Carlson’s liquid fish oil daily along with my regular daily vitamins during this experiment.
Which sounds exactly like the Shangri-La Diet. Alex Chernavsky lost considerable weight and has kept it off doing almost the same thing with flaxseed oil.

My guess is that he is losing weight because of the fish oil. The theory behind SLD makes two predictions: 1. If Jimmy stops the fish oil and continues the ketone level adjustment, he will stop losing weight. 2. If Jimmy stops the ketone level adjustment but continues the fish oil, he will continue losing weight.

I asked Jimmy for comment. Here’s what he said:

It’s an interesting theory, but not one I want to particularly test out since I’m still doing so well at accomplishing what I am aiming for right now–fat loss, mental acuity and great overall health [all due to the fish oil, I believe -- Seth]. Perhaps once this period of testing NK [nutritional ketosis] is over in May, I can add in your suggestion as another testing point.
The theory behind low-carb dieting has never made any correct predictions, as far as I know. It does not explain why the lost weight is often regained. If it turns out Jimmy Moore’s weight loss is due to his ketone adjustment, that will be the first correct prediction of the theory.

In contrast, the theory behind SLD led me to five new ways to lose weight (eating bland food, eating slowly-digested food, drinking unflavored sugar water, drinking oil with no smell, eating food nose-clipped). That’s roughly the same as five correct predictions, two of them (drinking sugar water, drinking oil with no smell) counter-intuitive.

Jimmy Moore’s weight loss may eventually show you can lose weight via SLD even when you don’t realize you’re doing SLD.

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