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Old 08-02-2013, 07:11 AM   #181
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there was this guy on Seth's board who lost a HUGE amount of weight--I can't remember his name off the top of my head--but basically ate all of his food without tasting it--he too perfected the nose block. (kind of pushing your upper palate against the inside of your nasal cavity so you don't taste)--or maybe he clipped, I really don't remember--but he lost an amazing amount of weight that way. There must be something to this not tasting thing.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:29 AM   #182
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Yay! 194 this morning!

I wish I were super clear on when I kicked over from the potato hack to this. According to the spreadsheet in the honeybadger's thread, I was 208 on 7/12. I think I lost about 8 pounds on the potato hack, then kicked over to this and lost another 6 pounds.

Not a bad 3 weeks! 14 pounds. Man...I am floored. I was afraid the potato hack would be the only way I could lose weight anymore. Really, the potato hack is a severe application of food reward deprivation.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #183
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My clothes are starting to fit better. Am wearing the jeans that were too tight at the beginning of this no reward eating and they fit ok now and the spare tire is definitely deflating!

I am down .6 this morning so that is 11.4 since July 19 or about 2 weeks. I am going with the chicken thighs for awhile because they have tasted the best so far and did not derail me yet. I will eat raw broccoli and spinach combo and the one potato and two tbl of coconut oil for awhile.

Will catch up on the posts after work. Have a great day!

This is just great!!!

I pulled on a pair of jeans and my gosh they are so loose. Time to shop for the next size down!

Woot!!!!
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:00 AM   #184
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there was this guy on Seth's board who lost a HUGE amount of weight--I can't remember his name off the top of my head--but basically ate all of his food without tasting it--he too perfected the nose block. (kind of pushing your upper palate against the inside of your nasal cavity so you don't taste)--or maybe he clipped, I really don't remember--but he lost an amazing amount of weight that way. There must be something to this not tasting thing.
Interesting. I have read that some really do well with not tasting any food.

I bought a pair of nose clips that are just a wire so you can adjust it. It is one of the best sellers and higher rated clips. This is a good thing because I had to stretch it out to get it to be comfortable.

I think I want to use it just for the butter and milk.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:03 AM   #185
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Yay! 194 this morning!.
Fantastic
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:06 AM   #186
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I bought a pair of nose clips that are just a wire so you can adjust it. It is one of the best sellers and higher rated clips. This is a good thing because I had to stretch it out to get it to be comfortable..
I want to buy it and I see they have few on amazon. Do you have the Speedo Competition Nose Clip? TIA.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:09 AM   #187
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I bought the Cressi DF 200189. $5 add on item
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:27 PM   #188
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Another Stephan Guyenet Interview
--------

Health and Well-Being

Stephan Guyenet has a long-standing interest in human health. This led him to pursue a doctorate in neurobiology at the University of Washington studying neurodegenerative disease. During this time, he discovered the pioneering work of several researchers that opened his eyes to the remarkable effect of nutrition on human health. This led him to dive into the scientific literature, integrating information from the fields of biology, medicine, anthropology, and archaeology into a coherent theory of human health. Feeling the need to make this information widely accessible, in early 2008 he launched the free weblog Whole Health Source.


1. Antioxidant vitamins get a lot of attention these days. If you go into a vitamin store, you will see promises of eternal youth. These promises are made on supposedly scientific grounds. What's your view on this?

It's salesmanship. There is no direct evidence that supplementing antioxidant vitamins above what you can get from a nutritious diet is healthy. In fact, there's evidence that it's ineffective and even outright harmful in certain cases. Ironically, big doses of antioxidants can actually increase oxidation under certain circumstances. Furthermore, the whole concept that oxidation is a bad thing that we need to eliminate is incorrect. Excessive oxidation is a problem, but the body uses oxidation in a number of ways that are normal and beneficial.

2. Fat is often portrayed as the enemy for adults trying to eat a healthy diet. Is all fat bad? Please elaborate.

Not all fat is bad. The bad fats are the ones that are alien to the human body: those that are industrially processed, that didn't exist in the human diet before the 20th century. I'm talking about corn oil, soy oil, cottonseed oil, and particularly their hydrogenated counterparts. These oils have never sustained a truly healthy culture. When you look at cultures that rarely have heart attacks, what fats are they eating? Animal fats, dairy fat, palm oil, coconut oil, and olive oil.

I know this may come as a shock to some people. After all, we've been told for decades that saturated fats cause heart disease. What may shock people even more is that most studies to date show that people who eat more saturated fat have no more heart attacks than people who eat less. The Framingham heart study, one of the longest-running diet-heart studies of all time, looked specifically at the relationship between butter consumption, margarine consumption and heart attacks. Researchers followed volunteers for twenty years, and found that the amount of butter they ate had no relation to their risk of having a heart attack. On the other hand, people who ate the most margarine had nearly twice the risk of having a heart attack as people who ate none. Saturated fat is a red herring that has been overemphasized largely for historical reasons.

One fat that is clearly important is omega-3. It's found mostly in seafood, flax, green vegetables, and fats from pasture-raised animals. It's critical to have a regular source of omega-3 in the diet.

3. We hear so many claims and promises about what's good for us and what's bad for us to eat. How can a person bring a scientific approach to the task of sorting through all this information?

Yes, that's a tough question. There's a lot of information out there and it's difficult to judge its accuracy. You need a rudder for your ship, and here's the one I like to use: go with what has worked in the past. There are a number of cultures, past and present, that don't suffer from the modern disorders we're trying to avoid. There's also the human evolutionary context: which foods have we eaten for hundreds of thousands of years, since before these disorders were common, and which foods are products of the 20th century industrial food system? That's your context. Anything that doesn't fit with those fundamental concepts is suspect.

For example, some nutrition authorities tell us to eat industrial oils like soy oil because a few studies have shown that people who eat them have a slightly lower risk of having a heart attack. But when we look at cultures where thorough studies have shown no heart attacks whatsoever (rural Nigeria, Uganda, Kitava), or very few, are they eating soy oil? Of course not! No one has ever eaten soy oil in all of human history except 20th century populations eating an industrial diet. That's because you can't even extract it without machines. It's clearly not the answer to the epidemic of heart attacks that began in the 20th century Western world, and has since been spreading globally.

4. What are your thoughts on curbing the obesity epidemic among women?

Obesity is a difficult problem that probably has many causes. But let's think about what has changed in the American diet since 1970, while the obesity rate has doubled. We're eating less animal fat and more industrial vegetable oils, for a total fat consumption that hasn't changed. We've replaced whole milk with low-fat and skim milk. We're eating more carbohydrates, mostly in the form of white flour and sugar. So diet quality has deteriorated significantly, becoming increasingly processed.

We're also eating more calories. You may be tempted to think that's the sole explanation for the weight gain, and I'm sure it's a big factor. But it's actually beside the point. The real question is, "why are we eating more?" Are we simply gluttons, not able to stop eating like our supposedly iron-willed ancestors? Doubtful. I think a big factor is diet quality. The human body is gifted with a very complex system designed to maintain body fat within a fairly narrow window, both by regulating food intake and energy expenditure. Obesity only occurs when the system breaks. So what broke the system? I think it's diet quality. In other words, junk food killed our metabolism, which caused us to eat more, which caused us to gain weight.

How do we fix it? It's always easier to prevent a problem than to repair it, but we still have some tools. First, eat Real Food. Whole, natural foods that you have prepared at home. Throw out anything made with white flour, sugar and vegetable oils. No soda, no snacks. Fat is not the enemy. In fact, it's part of the solution for many people. Many overweight people find that low-carbohydrate, high-fat diets are helpful for weight loss and general health. I don't think low-carb is the solution to all the world's ills, but it has its place. Prioritize foods rich in fiber such as leafy greens, and include seafood in your diet. Many people find that eliminating wheat aids weight loss and general health.

Exercise is another potent tool, but the type is critical. Running slowly for an hour on a treadmill is ineffective for weight loss. The best is brief, intense exercise such as sprints. I know many people aren't willing to do running sprints, and that's all right. Cycle sprints on a stationary bike are effective as well. Thirty seconds of intense effort, thirty seconds of rest and repeat a few times. Five minutes of this twice a week has been shown to have a profound effect on weight loss and metabolism in several studies. Losing weight is not about burning calories. It's about restoring the normal function of body's hormones.

Walking or cycle commuting at a gentle pace every day is helpful as well.


5. How do you feel about genetically modified foods?

I think they're unnecessary in most cases. In the U.S, we have abundant, low-cost foods. GMOs have nothing to offer us. What have they done for us so far? Given us tomatoes that are still rock-hard when "ripe?" GMOs have given us herbicide resistant crops. Now farmers are dependent on high-tech seeds and herbicides provided by large corporations. Meanwhile, farmers can't make a decent living anymore. The main thing GMOs have given us in the U.S. is a better bottom line for a few executives. Improvements in food quality in the U.S. are coming from farmers selling directly to consumers at farmer's markets, not from giant corporations tinkering with plant DNA.

6. What are your thoughts on the latest trends in the culinary field towards better nutrition? How are restaurant menus evolving?

Restaurants have begun focusing more on local, wholesome ingredients. It's a great trend. I often see the provenance of the food I'm eating on menus now. Pork isn't just pork anymore, and that's a good thing. Meat doesn't have to be inhumane and damaging to the environment. Unfortunately, restaurants still use a lot of nasty ingredients you don't see. Most restaurants use the cheapest cooking oils available, because customers can't tell the difference. It's best not to eat out too often unless you're extremely confident about the ingredients that are going into it.

You have to be on your toes. Ill health is built into the very fabric of our agricultural system, due to misplaced agricultural subsidies. We subsidize corn, soybeans and wheat, making them artificially cheap. The result is an avalanche of high-fructose corn syrup, industrial "vegetable" oils and inhumane, industrial meat. What are you trying to do to us, Uncle Sam? If we shifted our subsidies to pasture-raised meats and dairy, vegetables and fruit, we would be prioritizing health over disease, and not paying any more for food than we do now. But it hasn't happened yet, so going with the flow can be deadly!

7. What would you consider the most important "take-home" message for our readers with respect to your time-tested strategies for achieving and maintaining health and well-being?

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Don't wait until you get sick. The key to health is the same as it's always been: eat whole, natural foods, get sunlight and exercise. There are some nuances of course. Some people have food sensitivities and other pre-existing problems that need to be addressed, and there are other factors as well like sleep and psychological stress. But that's the basic formula that has worked for our species since the beginning.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:04 PM   #189
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Marika, I don't use any salt which is extremely hard to do. I love salt. But I think not using it accounts for the lack of bounces that I had with regular low carb. No water retention.

KT, fantastic on the 14 pounds in three weeks and having those jeans be loose!

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Old 08-02-2013, 06:17 PM   #190
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Good grief, this MCT oil...I haven't had an appetite all day. My goodness gracious, what is this black magic???

I hope I can eat my dinner; I get to go out tonight!

LOL...

Still have the stomach upset, though.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:04 PM   #191
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Hi Everyone!

Just stopping in to say that I did not follow plan on purpose today and then again tomo. I am trying to give myself a break from losing. I guess it freaked me out that I lost so well, that I am skeered of it. You have to know my history to understand the shear disbelief! I am awestruck.

I will be back to the experiment on Sunday.

Congrats to all of my oily drinkin' friends!
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Old 08-03-2013, 03:17 AM   #192
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KT, great on the no appetite! Hope you were able to enjoy your dinner last night!

Sunday, I know what you mean about being scared of the quick weight loss. I feel like that a little myself. Going to check on how much sodium we need to keep healthy and if the broccoli, potato and meats have enough naturally.

I am down .8 today so that is 12.2 pounds in 16 days.

Have a great day everyone!
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Old 08-03-2013, 03:44 AM   #193
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I have completed 2 days of SLD (2 ghee shots a day) and my appetite is GONE! I was in binge mode when I started and like day and night my appetite went down. Yesterday I only ate small breakfast and late lunch and my portions were half the size of what I normally eat. This does not happens to me during PMS. I am so happy and I am losing weight as well!!! OMG-this SLD is working!!!!

8/1--138.8 Morning Binge, CO shot AM, ghee shot PM
8/2--137.4 2 ghee shots
8/3--135.0 planning to have 2 ghee shots today
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:27 AM   #194
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Marika! And during PMS no less!!!

Abigail, I think you have the right idea about eating the same 3 foods. I must try this on Sunday - Thurs. Then, Fr & Sat I will give myself some of the foods that I long for or feel like I need. Congrats on the success! I am trying to explain this SLD to my daughter and she has heard me speak of so many different weight loss ideas that she is probably thinking, "here we go again".

KT! Fantastic on the MCT oil. Keeping fingers crossed that tummy will allow you to have it. I found an excellent eye dropper bottle and I just squeeze a couple of dropperfuls right at the back of my mouth. The thing is that it seems to be less mess and go down easier.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:58 AM   #195
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I know what you mean about explaining one more weight loss idea on family and friends. lol

I decided after posting today to start having some salt. Guyanet says if you want salt in your diet to dissolve it in water and drink it but don't sprinkle it on your food. I started today to dissolve 1/4 teas to 1/2 teas. of salt in a little warm water and drink it. I am using sea salt which has more minerals. I think that will give me between 600 and 1200 mg of sodium which is still low but enough for health.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:32 AM   #196
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I have just read through two pages of this interesting discussion. As a test, I took 3 packets flavorless gelatin and one serving inulin fiber in water for my flavrless calories. (110) Then I read about the flatulence some experience. Hope this does not ruin my movie date this afternoon.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:34 AM   #197
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Abigail,

I drink the adrenal cocktail 2x per day. You can find it by googling. Evidently, sea salt, cream of tartar, & citrus combined are healing to the adrenals which is what comes in to play when you are under stress or overwhelmed. Isn't this all of us?

I love them and I sleep so sound that it is ridiculous.

My particular concoction is juice of 1/2 lime, 1/4 tsp of sea salt w/ iodine, 1/4 tsp of cream of tartar (potassium). Mix in full glass of spring water and sip on it all morning. I can tell the difference.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:08 AM   #198
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I decided after posting today to start having some salt. Guyanet says if you want salt in your diet to dissolve it in water and drink it but don't sprinkle it on your food. I started today to dissolve 1/4 teas to 1/2 teas. of salt in a little warm water and drink it. I am using sea salt which has more minerals. I think that will give me between 600 and 1200 mg of sodium which is still low but enough for health.
Funny, I was thinking the same, if/when I decide to go flavorless route, I would drink water with salt. I need it as my blood pressure is always low.
Good to know that he recommends the same thing.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:11 AM   #199
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Sunday- I would love to try this adrenaline cocktail, but I have few spots on my teeth were the enamel is worn-off and it kills me to have anything acidic. I could probably try it with the straw and than rinse my teeth immediately. Maybe in few days. Let me stick to my SLD for now
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:14 AM   #200
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Sunday, I think I should probably have the sea salt with iodine too. Will have to look for that. I have a huge box of the sea salt so maybe I will do half sea and half reg salt until it is gone.

Cici, I am laughing out loud. Sure hope the date goes well with no unexpected interruptions.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:17 AM   #201
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I have completed 2 days of SLD (2 ghee shots a day) and my appetite is GONE! I was in binge mode when I started and like day and night my appetite went down. Yesterday I only ate small breakfast and late lunch and my portions were half the size of what I normally eat. This does not happens to me during PMS. I am so happy and I am losing weight as well!!! OMG-this SLD is working!!!!

8/1--138.8 Morning Binge, CO shot AM, ghee shot PM
8/2--137.4 2 ghee shots
8/3--135.0 planning to have 2 ghee shots today
Woot!!!! Oh my gosh, that is incredible news!!!

That is the ultimate acid test!!! Yay!!!
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:18 AM   #202
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I have just read through two pages of this interesting discussion. As a test, I took 3 packets flavorless gelatin and one serving inulin fiber in water for my flavrless calories. (110) Then I read about the flatulence some experience. Hope this does not ruin my movie date this afternoon.
Crossing fingers for you!
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:19 AM   #203
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KT, great on the no appetite! Hope you were able to enjoy your dinner last night!

Sunday, I know what you mean about being scared of the quick weight loss. I feel like that a little myself. Going to check on how much sodium we need to keep healthy and if the broccoli, potato and meats have enough naturally.

I am down .8 today so that is 12.2 pounds in 16 days.

Have a great day everyone!
Wow, my GOSH!!! That is so amazing!!!
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:28 AM   #204
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I am down another pound this morning. 193!

OK, this is as low as I got on the potato hack, and it was just a blip. I must say, my body composition looks better than when I hit 193 last time. My pants are loose in the hips and thighs. I have been eating seafood or meat every night (did I mention Trader Joes has grass fed burgers? In the freezer section in these square boxes with 4 each in there). I have had my brazil nut. I have eaten Kerrygold butter before bed a few nights (yes, even the salted type).

I am so happy! I feel so much better!!!

I am not sure I can continue with the MCT oil. I am going to have to mix it up and see if I can ever adjust to this.

My daughter is staging a revolt against the oils; the extra light olive and the MCT make her nauseous. She might have to try this with nose-clipped butter. I don't think she will take the ghee.

OK, I'm off to take some butter and nose clips up the stairs to see if she will do it.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:31 AM   #205
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Hi Everyone!

Just stopping in to say that I did not follow plan on purpose today and then again tomo. I am trying to give myself a break from losing. I guess it freaked me out that I lost so well, that I am skeered of it. You have to know my history to understand the shear disbelief! I am awestruck.

I will be back to the experiment on Sunday.

Congrats to all of my oily drinkin' friends!
Oh, you crack me up!!!!!

I'm off this weekend too. I ate out last night and will be eating out today, maybe tomorrow too.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:53 PM   #206
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I have just read through two pages of this interesting discussion. As a test, I took 3 packets flavorless gelatin and one serving inulin fiber in water for my flavrless calories. (110) Then I read about the flatulence some experience. Hope this does not ruin my movie date this afternoon.
Wonderful to have Cici trying this! Enjoy your date tonight and please come back and share!

I just read a boatload of SLD reviews online. It is interesting because lots of folks have reviewed Shangri-La that love the plan and continue to do it years after losing weight. There is also the group that said it did nothing for them and think it is hooey and not effective. I will admit that I could not process that this would work differently for me, because I was already taking MCT in the morning coffee?

One good review...

Quote:
I used to weight 175lbs. I lost 50lbs on the Shangri-la diet and the weight has stayed off for over 2 years. I eat normally and I only exercise when I feel like it. It worked for a friend of mine in San Fran and she sent the book to me. It didn't work for my mom.

I feel 100% healthier than I did. It changed my life.
Another that this worked too well for...

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I'll have to be honest - I tried this diet 2x before and I quit each time, not because it didn't work - but because it worked too well. I'm one of those "all-out" people - when I try something, I go "all-out." When I read this book the first time I started taking a sugar-water dose between each meal. By Day 2 I was so sick I couldn't eat anything!! So I thought, "hey, this diet isn't for me" and quit. 3 years later and 15 pounds heavier - I decided, "Fine, I'll try it again. What do I have to lose?" But with age comes wisdom - so I decided to go slowly this time and only take my sugar-water dose after dinner - that's it - once a day. OMG!! It WORKS!!! My clothes are suddenly fitting again, my significant other can't stop complimenting me, and I feel so energetic. I don't understand how this works - but it's an appetite suppressant somehow - and it does the job. Easy example - we all know that the more calories you eat, the bigger your waist will get. For breakfast two weeks ago - I'd eat an english muffin, two eggs, two cookies and coffee. Since I started Shangri-La my breakfasts are 3/4 of an english muffin and half an egg (if I'm lucky). Food still tastes great - and I do eat what I want, I just can't eat that much of it anymore - just not interested. So I say, give it a try, go easy, and enjoy the results. Shangri-La is just that. :-)

Last edited by sunday; 08-03-2013 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:13 PM   #207
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Sunday- I have also been reading all the reviews on amazon (there are over 100 of them) and I am just amazed. If I have read this before trying it myself I would not have believed it. But let me tell you- I am a believer now! I have completed 3 days and I am eating half of what I normally eat. I stopped thinking about food. I only feel slight hunger and when I take the first bite the hunger goes away instantly.
I am trying to make my DH try this, he could lose 15 lb or so, but he is reluctant to try it. I will let my results speak for themselves and maybe then he will give a shot (oil shot that is )
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:02 PM   #208
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Thanks for posting the info about the reviews. I will try to get my daughter to read the book after she gets off summer school. The unsalted butter didn't go over well. She could barely eat the salted butter! I offered to heat it a little. She said she would rather just reduce the amount of MCT oil and go with that.

Who knew this could be so effective? I am just so thankful I finally found this. I was just poking around Chris Kresser's website looking for podcasts. How life-changing!!!
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:21 PM   #209
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Will any 100 cal flavorless thing work?
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:39 PM   #210
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According to Seth Roberts, nothing works like oil. It works better than the sugar water.

I think the flavorless chia seeds in water work, and I suspect plain potato soup with no salt or spices and a lot of water works too. It tastes like nothing with a hint of dirt.

I will admit MCT oil works best, better than the extra light olive oil. If you don't like these, Seth Roberts suggests nose clipping other oils that have some flavor so you can get the effect.

Seth Roberts says the flavorless foods work (nose-clipped). He also says crazy spicing works because you haven't made an association between the food and the calories, and suggests this as a get out of jail card free when eating out - order something you have never eaten before.

Stephan Guyenet says bland foods work - no salt, no sugar, no spices, but salt and fat are OK as long as they are not added to food. And they need to be whole, paleo diet type foods, which I know you already do anyway.

It is a spectrum of things that work. I am trying to apply it all for a synergistic effect. People were giving me funny looks as I put two kinds of tabasco in my clam chowder at a restaurant last week, and lots of pepper.

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