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Old 03-24-2013, 08:56 AM   #211
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Yennie, I am shooting for a 10 day hack starting on April 14. I have never made it past 5 days, but the last 5 day hack netted 4 lbs and it was not difficult at all. I remember seeing someone using non-fat greek yogurt for sourcream. I have never tried it, but it sounded like a good measure. Also parmesan is very low in fat, so another idea. I think if having protein for breakfast helps, then I would try that. We are all scientific experiments.

Please come back and report how your trial goes! Good luck!
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:04 AM   #212
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Sunday,
Thanks! I've always also wondered about using FF yogurt or sour cream or cottage cheese would be ok. I suspect it would as long as one did not over-do it. All things in moderation right? Which we're so good at, hence why we're here
This is a good week for me to hack for personal scheduling reasons. So kinda excited to jump in!
I'll keep everyone posted.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:08 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post
1 tsp CO = ~5g fat
1 tsp EVOO = ~4.5g fat
1 tsp butter = 3-7g fat depending on brand, etc.

Guess we answered our question!! Bring on the LC wedges!!
Oh, I thought you were asking something else...
like, "you can have 1tsp fat per XXX grams of potatoes".
(Not just 1tsp per day.)
That's what *I* would like to know!
Can I put a little more butter on my taters!!!
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:12 AM   #214
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Woot!!! Jenny, that is such great news on the weight loss AND the blood sugar! Yay!!!
Of course TOM showed up late last night so both my weight and blood sugar are up this morning and I have no idea what's going on.
But I'm doing taters for breakfast right now.

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I think anything that works at a condiment level on a potato is fair game!
Umm...you don't know how much I like condiments!!!
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:19 AM   #215
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I have spritzed my roasted taters with OO in my mister and sprinkled with rosemary & sea salt before roasting. I am guessing, but I would think it is close to 2 tsp.
Yes, but...2tsp for how many potatoes (in weight, if possible)?
Is that just for one meal, or enough for more?

PS--Sunday, I know you posted this a few days ago...
Quote:
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Wow! I am impressed. I would have thought it would take a while for the RS to assist with the BG results. Sounds like the cornstarch may be a great addition for tater fasters.
...but I just wanted to mention that I did start taking cornstarch at night a couple weeks ago.
I had such bad gas & cramping the first time I tried the hack, I thought that it would be good to add RS for a while before trying again.

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Old 03-24-2013, 09:23 AM   #216
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Hey y'all. Don't forget that part of how the hack works is to eliminate both fat AND protein during your potato meals. It is all an experiment and N =1 and all that, but be careful with what you add. It is not simply about fat. The reason I use the salsa con queso is that it is low fat lowcarb and low protein. Maybe the bone broth adds a little more protein, but I don't use too much.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:25 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Oh, I thought you were asking something else...
like, "you can have 1tsp fat per XXX grams of potatoes".
(Not just 1tsp per day.)
That's what *I* would like to know!
Can I put a little more butter on my taters!!!
Well, I kinda *WAS* asking that but went with the info we had at the time. I guess if I plan to limit by fat to <5g/day, I can plan. That's 3 of the 35 cal LC wedges!

I'm guessing there isn't a solid answer to the amount of fat/unit of potato. However, if we extrapolate...

I looked up russet potatoes on 3 different online calorie trackers. When I was able to find "medium" as a measure that also has numeric units, the answer was universally "148g/5.3 ounces". So if they're saying 1tsp oil per "medium" potato, and we accept that 1tsp is approximately 5g of fat (and we round up a tich for easier math), I'd say it looks like 5g fat/150g of potato.

Now what we really need to know is how much fat is necessary to process the insulin spike generated by eating the potato, which I'm sure varies person to person. Because then we could calculate how much a person would be "slowing" their weight loss by adding in dietary fat.

Example: By eating 150g of potato, my body needs 200g of body fat to process the resulting glucose spike. But if I eat 5g dietary fat, my body will only utilize 195g of body fat, thereby slowing my loss by 5g. I'd be ok with that, since the joy and sustainability of adding those 5g would be emotionally more valuable than losing 5 more grams per meal. <Totally made up those numbers, BTW>

I imagine there would be a point of diminishing returns with the above concept whereby the numbers would not "add up".
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:36 AM   #218
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Hey y'all. Don't forget that part of how the hack works is to eliminate both fat AND protein during your potato meals. It is all an experiment and N =1 and all that, but be careful with what you add. It is not simply about fat. The reason I use the salsa con queso is that it is low fat lowcarb and low protein. Maybe the bone broth adds a little more protein, but I don't use too much.
So this is where we'd have to be careful with the FF greek yogurt too - since its so high in protein.

I got a big, fat, gigantic "F" in my attempts to make bone broth, so I just end up using chicken bullion or canned broth.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:37 AM   #219
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Ouiz, I still don't know my nutritional counts on bb, but it really has been a curiosity of mine, since I like BB and the taste it adds specifically. I may have been able to lose more without it! What I am confused about is that a cup of my Pacific Free Range chicken stock is only 10 calories w/ .095 grams of protein & 0 fat, which is really almost nil on the protein. I guess I would think, my homemade would be less? Now, the thing is I have no way of knowing the fat on homemade BB, because if I skim the fat, we know that there is always small amount of fat left.

So, I guess one would be safe to use the chicken stock from a box rather than homemade?

Jen, I think you are safe with a small amount, but butter adds fat very fast. So, in my humble opinion, it could be detracting from your fat losses. But, please give us a shout if you try it with success. I am looking at everyone's experiment as a learning scale for all.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:41 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post

Example: By eating 150g of potato, my body needs 200g of body fat to process the resulting glucose spike. But if I eat 5g dietary fat, my body will only utilize 195g of body fat, thereby slowing my loss by 5g. I'd be ok with that, since the joy and sustainability of adding those 5g would be emotionally more valuable than losing 5 more grams per meal. <Totally made up those numbers, BTW>

I imagine there would be a point of diminishing returns with the above concept whereby the numbers would not "add up".
YES! Yennie, said what I have been trying to say. Who knows if I would have lost more by ZERO fat as opposed to small fat? It made the roasted taters crisp which in my opinion, made them very tolerable when cold.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:45 AM   #221
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Seriously, I think if whatever you are doing allows you to lose at an acceptable rate, keep doing it. If you stall, look at your ratios.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:50 AM   #222
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Yeah, I don't want to slather my potatoes in anything, but if the difference (results-wise) between no fat, 1/2 tsp, or 1tsp is negligible, the 1tsp might allow us to get a bit more creative and change up the texture of the potatoes.

I'm always interested in knowing where the limits are, and possibly pushing them...like, is the 4-hour window before eating "normal" foods REALLY necessary, or is 3 hours or 2 hours okay? What's the 4 hours based on, anyway?

PS--Everything probably varies from person to person, but what works/doesn't work for others can be a good starting point for experiments.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:55 AM   #223
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I have only seen the 4 hour rule on *** and of course, Paleohacks. Who knows where the science came from? For that matter, isn't Adi and some of the other JUDDD budds having protein for breakfast and then taters remainder of day and no issues? I think you have some room with that one.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:01 AM   #224
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Jen, And when I speak of making roasted taters, I make a whole pan full that lasts me the whole week. I use the baby new potatoes or fingerlings and cut in half spritz the whole pan, then sprinkle with sea salt, pepper, & rosemary. Roast in oven for 30-45 minutes at 375. It is unbelievable how good it is! So the 2 tsp of spritz oil would probably be more like .20 of a tsp per meal or maybe less. I can eat only a few of these little gems and I am full.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:07 AM   #225
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For that matter, isn't Adi and some of the other JUDDD budds having protein for breakfast and then taters remainder of day and no issues? I think you have some room with that one.
Yes, but Adi just said within the last few days that she will eat her eggs & coffee with HWC but early and not eat again until maybe 2pm. So she does have a good window.

How quickly fat passes through the stomach and through the small intestines depends greatly on what else is eaten with it. Fat tends to be the last nutrient to leave the stomach to enter the small intestines for digestion so if you ate a big, protein & fat laden meal, you'd probably best wait more than 4 hours for it all to pass - if the goal is to avoid dietary fats interfering with potato digestion. However if you're talking a bit of HWC or CO, or a few eggs, you'd probably be ok with 4 hours to allow it to pass through the stomach and intestines before asking your system to digest the potatoes.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:15 AM   #226
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Yes, I agree. I will not be adding protein, when I fast, except for the small amount of chicken stock, which seems to be acceptable.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:10 AM   #227
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Start weight this morning: 183 on the scale I will use throughout the whole hack. I've decided to just go with this one, even though I do think its a little low, and stay consistent. Even if its low, it will still record pounds lost.
If I could be in the 170's by Easter, this will be one happy girl! Even if its 179.99999!
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress, including tracking how much fat I add and if that seems to make a difference.
n=1 experiment underway!
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:03 PM   #228
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I agree with what Yennie said--I'm thinking that it would be good if you have a mixed meal to wait at least 4 hours before having potatoes ...

BUT if I do only potatoes all day, it *might* be okay to have a regular meal sooner than 4 hours. Because the plain potatoes will be digested quickly, and the insulin spike & everything happens pretty quickly, too. Blood sugar should be back to normal a couple hours after eating potatoes, right? Maybe after a few days of adjustment, anyway.

I imagine--I could be wrong, but I imagine--that if a person were to do potatoes just part of the day, or one meal a day, the optimal time would be on an empty stomach--that's when you'd have the biggest (desired) reaction to the carbs. And morning/breakfast is when my stomach is the emptiest. So my plan for now is to do potatoes in the am for as long as I can take it.

The problem so far is that I get hungry an hour or two after eating potatoes. And when I tried potatoes at night, I had nightmares and slept very badly. So my personal preference, at this point, is to have a "normal" dinner. It would just be easier if I could do that 3 hours after eating potatoes instead of 4...4 hours is just a bit too long!!!

Anyway, I could totally be wrong about this, or it might work for me and not someone else, but that's my reasoning behind it for now.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:14 PM   #229
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PS--I like to "tweak"...
it's not for everybody.

The hack "as written" is supposed to be short-term and to help lose 5-10lbs...
I'm hoping that if I do 1 or 2 potato meals a day, I could do it for longer and lose more.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:16 PM   #230
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No, PJ, I think you're right. If you know that your BG/insulin spike is within a few hours of eating potatoes and by 3 hours post-potato (PP?) your BG is back to normal, one can assume that the insulin has been produced, utilized and BG stabilized. Therefore you'd likely be ok to eat a regular dinner sooner AFTER than you would be ok to eat regular food BEFORE. Does this make sense?

This is reminding me of my time in the clinics - we'd get alpacas and horses that would end up in this semi-metabolic disease/insulin resistant state that was an absolute nightmare to regulate. They'd have 2 catheters (minimum) going - one with a 5% dextrose solution, one a constant rate infusion of insulin in an attempt to get a regulated glucose level and get them out of their hyperlipid state (neither animals produce ketones in a negative energy state [well, they do but they're negligible], they get hypertriglyceridemia - their version of ketosis - serum would be milky white - yuck and very, very bad!) Obviously a different deal because they had metabolic derangement and the glucose/insulin were both going IV. But still very interesting none-the-less.
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:28 PM   #231
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Does this make sense?
Yes, totally.

It got me thinking about food-combining...my parents were into that when I was a kid.

One example is--

Fruit digests very quickly (30-60 min) and should be eaten alone.
Other foods take 2-4 hours to digest.
If you eat fruit on an empty stomach, you can eat other foods about an hour later.
If you eat other foods first, you should wait 4 hours before you eat fruit.
(This might sound like crazy hippie stuff, lol...just using it as an example.)

So plain potatoes with no/minimal added fat should digest pretty quickly (within 2 hours according to food-combining charts).

Anyway, I'll try it this week and see how it goes.
I wanted to do potatoes more often this past week but I got so hungry when I tried it...even though I said I can tolerate hunger, I don't exactly look forward to it if I know it's going to happen!!! so I ended up eating normally Thurs-Sat.

Well, fingers crossed that I can tweak this and have it still work and be able to stick with it for a while!
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:32 PM   #232
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Potato Hack - Day 1 (kind of)

So I picked a lousy day to start after all. Ended up having to be social for the husband's work...ug! Had a salad with low cal/fat dressing but did have some meat on it. Figured it was about 200 cals give or take.

Then I waited 6.5 hours drinking lemon water and tea. Thank you JUDDD for giving me the power to wait 6.5 hours to eat after having only a salad!

I had 2 yukon golds, microwaved and mashed with chicken broth & 2 TBS of salsa con queso. Um...where has this stuff been all my life??? It was delicious!!!

The potatoes weighed 342 grams for 242 calories. Total meal calories: 287 with 3 grams of fat.

If we accept the earlier conversions of 1 tsp oil to acceptable grams of fat/grams of potatoes - this meal meets both criteria. I also think I could use 1 TBS of the salsa con queso in the future, it was a little overwhelming.

We'll see if the scale is willing to accept by pseudo day tomorrow.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:42 PM   #233
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aren't there about 100 calories/100grams of potato??
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:52 PM   #234
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I'm just popping in to thank you all for so much conversation about the hack. I must run out and buy some salsa con queso! I don't know exactly what this is, but I must have it now.

Jenny - I have read about the food combining. I found I could not get the kick I needed out of the raisins eaten right after potatoes - they work best alone for fueling bike rides (I go 20 miles at a time - it is a real problem for me on potatoes). There is something to eating fruit by itself, I think.

I ate out socially again today--met up with friends I haven't seen for several months. I decided to eat a potato with some hummus I made myself (no oil but I do use some sesame seeds) right before I left. Oh my goodness, this seriously crowded out my ability to eat!!! What a good trick this is; it is amazing.

I am off on vacation this week, and I will be out and about and off to MIL house for a few days. I am going to eat as much starch as I can to squeeze out other foods. I happen to know her favorite restaurant always has baked potatoes in the salad bar!!! I think the place is called Green Tomatoes. Woot!!!
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:17 PM   #235
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aren't there about 100 calories/100grams of potato??
Honestly, I don't know. I'm finding ranges anywhere from 320 cals for 206 grams, 110 cals for 148g- most of the measuring sites list overly helpful things like "1 medium potato - xxx cals". Well, define medium please!

If it truly is 100g/100cals then that would make life tons easier!
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:49 PM   #236
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I found a site that says 103.6 cals for 100g.
So, pretty close to what Ouiz said.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:01 PM   #237
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Then I defer to the expert, and will modify my journaling accordingly.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:12 AM   #238
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Is there a special brand of salsa con queso? Just look for 0 fat?

Jen, I have read of someone doing this as you are stating, problem is, I have read so many different blogs, I can't remember! I do notice hunger more on potato fasts. Much more than I do just simply fasting all day. I think that is a good sign about the fat being burned and metabolism on fire.

Good luck to all!
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:50 AM   #239
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I prefer the Target brand salsa con queso over the Tostitos brand. The target brand has 1g of fat, 1 Carb and .5 g protein per Tbs. I love the Poblano chili version, although the other two are equally good. I drizzle some on a potato along with some bone broth. so delicious and satisfying. If this is my dinner, I use about 2-3 small potatoes, a little broccoli/cauli mix and a bit more SCQ. yum.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:49 PM   #240
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Gallery: Yennie
Stats: 5'3" 35yo 199/sig/146 No longer obese!
WOE: A.I. 1/1-1/20; JUDDD 1/21/13, Potatoes as needed
Potato Hack - Day 2

Down 0.2# this morning, which I'm ok with since I kinda blew it yesterday starting off the hack.
Today's counts:
B: Coffee with 1 TBS HWC and a splash of vanilla syrup
55 calories, 6 grams fat
Coffee finished by 9am
L: 2 yukon golds, 1 square chicken bullion, 1 wedge Laughing Cow French Onion cheese
205 calories, 2 grams fat
Had lunch just about 1pm (4 hours post-coffee)
D: 1 large russet, 1/2 square bullion, 2 TBS salsa con queso (Tostito's Brand, will get the Target brand when this is gone)
407.5 calories, 2.5 grams fat

ETA: Halve the numbers for dinner - I could not finish it all. I typed this up while I was cooking the potato, mostly to distract me as I was hungry enough to consider eating an arm. But 1/2 way through my gigantic potato (Costco russets - they're enormous!) I had to stop as I was stuffed. I may finish it tonight, but I doubt it.

Daily total:
667.5 calories, 10.5 grams fat (4.5 grams of fat associated with potatoes)

We'll see what the scale says tomorrow - may need to cut back on the fat with the potatoes.

Been drinking like a fish - lots of lemon water and tea as I tend to load up my potatoes with salt as well. Been...ahem...*going* quite a bit too so pretty sure I'm not retaining water

Last edited by Yennie; 03-25-2013 at 07:11 PM..
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